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emc
2072 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 12 2008 : 2:21:15 PM
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I just spent some beautiful days at a festival, and met an Indian Yoga Teacher, Saji. It was very interesting to talk about AYP with him, and I explained the spinal breathing technique to him. He was very curious about it and had never heard of anything like it! He couldn't really say what would be the effect of leading the breath out the ajna instead of the crown as was his common technique. 
Anyway, he saw my state and and recommended me to add some basic pranayama - when you hold your thumb on the nostril - breathing in - hold the breath for a few seconds - close the other nostril breathing out and in through the same - closing... breath in and out switching the closing of nostrils like that. Not visualizing or having any focus anywhere or anything, just calmly breath. (I don't know the name of that technique but I guess you recognize it.) He said that would stabilize me even more and be very good for me!
I guess this question is mostly for Yogani - would that distract the AYP practices in anyway? Do you agree that could be a good complement to the AYP spinal breathing? What is that type of pranayama he suggested doing actually???? |
Edited by - emc on Jul 12 2008 2:23:55 PM |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2008 : 2:52:54 PM
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Hi emc:
It is alternate nostril breathing, called "nadi shodana," a very common technique. It is also called "anuloma viloma."
Below is an excerpt from the AYP Easy Lessons book, an addition to lesson 41, which covers it.
As with any pranayama, be careful not to overdo. The combined effects from all pranayamas we do in a given day, regardless of type, will be cumulative. A teacher who offers a limited range of practices may not be aware of the increased potency of any individual practice when combined with a larger range of powerful practices in the daily routine. The same goes for adding intentional breath suspension (kumbhaka) in any part of our routine, which we just covered here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=4130#35367
(see follow-up posts there as well)
In other words, simple alternate nostril breathing is one thing by itself, and may be something else when added to a full boat of practices like we do in AYP. Always self-pace as necessary.
The guru is in you.
-------------------
Addition to Lesson 41 – Over the months, several have written and asked about a form of pranayama called “nadi shodana.” This is alternate nostril breathing. It is one of the most basic breathing techniques, and is usually the first breathing method taught to beginning students in hatha yoga classes. These days it is also taught by mental health professionals due to its calming influence on the nervous system. Nadi shodana is done by breathing slowly out and then in with one nostril blocked by the thumb of one hand, and then slowly out and in with the other nostril blocked by the middle finger of the same hand. That is all there is to it. It is a well-known practice that brings almost immediate relaxation. Why is it not taught in the Advanced Yoga Practices lessons?
The reason nadi shodana is not used here is because spinal breathing includes the benefits of nadi shodana, plus it is a tremendously more powerful practice with effects extending far beyond those of nadi shodana. The calming effects of nadi shodana come primarily from a reduction of the breath rate by using one nostril at a time – restraint of breath. In spinal breathing, the breath is restrained on inhalation voluntarily with the lungs and on exhalation with ujjayi (partially closed epiglottis), while the attention is used in the particular way of tracing the spinal nerve discussed in this lesson. While spinal breathing does not include alternating nostril breathing, this is not a shortcoming. Otherwise nadi shodana would be included along with spinal breathing. It is possible to do both practices at the same time, but it would be complicating our practice for very little gain. That is one of the guiding principles in all of these lessons – Is there a substantial benefit derived through the addition of an element of practice? If there is not a significant benefit from an additional element of practice, we leave it out. That is how we keep the routine of practices as simple and efficient as possible. Otherwise we would be loading ourselves up with all sorts of supplementary things and risk losing focus on our main practices. There will be plenty of practices added as we go through the lessons that will have huge impacts on results. We want to save our attention, time and energy for those, so we can achieve the most with our yoga.
Still, if you are an avid nadi shodana practitioner, or are strongly attracted to it, it will do no harm to incorporate it into your routine. If you have time, you can do some alternate nostril breathing before spinal breathing. Or you can incorporate it into your spinal breathing session. Keep in mind that nadi shodana is not recommended if you are a beginner in spinal breathing. There is plenty to learn in taking up spinal breathing – new habits to develop – and nadi shodana is not in the mix for the reasons mentioned. But, since it has been asked about by several people, and perhaps wondered about by others, it is covered here.
It should also be mentioned that nadi shodana is sometimes taught in combination with voluntary breath suspension. Breath suspension is an advanced practice and is discussed in detail later in the lessons. Nadi shodana with breath suspension is a different practice altogether, and can be hazardous if done without a good understanding of correct methodology and the effects. If you are a beginner and contemplating using breath suspension (holding the breath in or out) with nadi shodana or spinal breathing, it is suggested you wait until we get into it in these lessons, which is at lesson #91 (on yoni mudra kumbhaka) and beyond. The Sanskrit word for breath suspension is “kumbhaka.”
So, for now, it is recommended you develop a good understanding of spinal breathing and get the habit solidly in place, with as few distractions as possible. The following Q&As will help with that. Later on, there will be plenty more to add. One step at a time...
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2008 : 4:45:33 PM
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| Oh, dear! Thank you! I haven't come to that lesson yet... I'll do some experimenting later on then perhaps, and see what happens! Without breath suspension, then... |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2008 : 5:14:35 PM
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Hi emc:
quote:
Without breath suspension, then...
A modest amount will not hurt, but we all sometimes get carried away.
The guru is in you.
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kadak
79 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2008 : 7:34:48 PM
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Hi Yogani
I'm really wondering, why are western people overdoing so easily. When I got the teachings for tummo, the Gueshe said that, in Tibet, tummo retreats are lasting 100 days with 6-8 hours a day pranayama. When I say pranayama, I mean with kumbakha, gentle for 5 weeks, middle for 5 weeks, and hard for 5 weeks (and going directly to the crown). He never mentioned overdoing of any kind, he did the retreat 2 times himself, and I think he would have mentioned it if it was usual. I have to add that he was speaking of serious practicioners. For example he said that if the practice was good, when they do it in the temple, a pot of water would not freeze on the roof (above the temple) in january where temperatures are really low (around -15° I guess). Besides, all of them were put on the roof for several hours at the end of the retreat, with wet clothes which they had to dry.
Anyway, just to say that these people don't seem to experiment overdoing. Myself I never had the problem, I discovered the issue on your site, and I have to confess that I still don't understand. I am warning my friends about it because I know now that it can happen (thanks to you), and in fact, in happened to some people around me, but that's a mystery to me.
regards |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2008 : 8:24:19 PM
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Hi Kadak:
I can't really speak to what others are doing, though I am often asked to. If the results are different, it can only be assumed that they are not doing the same integration of practices we are. We do not focus much on drying clothes here. Cultivating inner silence is the thing here, and maybe that is a significant difference.
In AYP, pranayama plays a supporting role to deep meditation and samyama, whereas in other systems pranayama is primary for energy cultivation.
The actual major overloads that occur here are relatively few, mainly because we discuss a lot about self-pacing. As they say, "A stitch in time saves nine."
More often, we have people coming in from elsewhere with overloads, and deal pretty well with those. Not perfect, but many have found some clarity and balance, and can move ahead. So send your overloaded friends here. We will be happy to help.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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brushjw
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2008 : 10:39:46 PM
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quote:
The calming effects of nadi shodana come primarily from a reduction of the breath rate by using one nostril at a time – restraint of breath.
I have to disagree with this. I think the more important issue is that of balancing :
"By equalising the flow of prana in the ida and pingala nadis, nadi shodhana pranayama rectifies imbalances due to the 'habitual' predominance of the sympathetic nervous system, which is the result of chronic, ongoing stress. The balancing of the flow of prana has a positive influence on the body's stress response activity, and helps to keep levels of stress and tension within a normal range."
http://www.yogamag.net/archives/199...ranstr.shtml
There are other effects, which you can read in the article. But this only serves to emphasizes the point Yogani makes about self-pacing.
I believe the issue of stress, endemic in Western society, may be the answer to kadak's question.
namaste,
Joe
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jul 13 2008 : 12:14:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by brushjw
[quote]"By equalising the flow of prana in the ida and pingala nadis, nadi shodhana pranayama rectifies imbalances due to the 'habitual' predominance of the sympathetic nervous system, which is the result of chronic, ongoing stress. The balancing of the flow of prana has a positive influence on the body's stress response activity, and helps to keep levels of stress and tension within a normal range."
http://www.yogamag.net/archives/199...ranstr.shtml
Hi Joe:
I am aware of this traditional explanation, but it does not explain why slow breathing without alternate nostril regulation also has a relaxing effect. Isn't it true that the first advice people often give to someone who is highly stressed is to breathe slowly and deeply, not necessarily to breathe slowly and deeply through alternate nostrils? Of course, times have changed, and alternate nostril breathing is recommended more often now than in the past. But why does it work? And why does slow breathing without nostril regulation also work?
We should not take mystical explanations on faith, unless they can be verified, no matter how revered a source scripture may be. That is why the AYP lesson goes with the slow breathing explanation, because it is a characteristic found in both alternate nostril breathing and spinal breathing, and both can be relaxing for those who are comfortable in the practice.
Btw, I did nadi shodana pranayama for over 15 years twice daily before switching to spinal breathing pranayama many years ago, and have found the same benefits from spinal breathing, plus much more. Therefore, I was not comfortable parroting the scriptures on nadi shodana, because I knew something else was going on. So I described my experience as I saw it. If it turns out to be inaccurate, I will be more than happy to correct it.
None of this alters the performance or results of either practice, so it is really a question we can hand off to the scientific researchers. Eventually we will find out what is happening. Meanwhile, and happily, the mechanics of the practices and their benefits will remain the same.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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avatar186
USA
146 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2008 : 05:38:04 AM
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their is no such thing as overdoing if the practises are done right.
for example
in spinal breathing, pressure only accumulates in the head, when it is no brought back down.
on i believe the actuall topic of the ..topic lol.
when doing alternate nostril breathing, to be incorporated, let the breathing fall lighlty on the ears. and youll hear a sound. this very much has to do with tantra. for as you all know how to make wet, and some better than others, who can dry!!! and repeat.
also ayp seeems, in my short experiance, not to incorporate fire, and though i dont mean the constant flaring heat, it is needed as much as spirit, to subliminate the semon. it releases another angle, another aspect of energy.
think of it like this, breathing moves energy in and out the body rythmically in and on itself. spinal breathing seems to take hold of this. but! it can be as simply as, your "center" of breathing, or the roughness from it is center in the neck area, then ya accumulated pressure in the head.
when done right, the whole body can be opened in seconds. even in tantra, heat can be generated to even burn the semen, and sure this isnt wanted, it turns fishes into scorpians and youll sweat may burn your skin, but he who knows can nutralize acidity with spirit. or better yet, simply dry the wetness! and ya no mild fire remember.
FOR SPIRIT KEEPS OUR HEARTS ALIVE, BUT FIRE IS THE SOUL OF THE BODY~ !
more importantly, mastery of spinal breathing, witch i have not been able to attain agian, nor am working on at this moment. when attained, a full erection close to ejaculation can be completly subdued, meaning full erection to none at all in mere seconds.
this is a pressure deal.
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2008 : 12:20:32 PM
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Hi emc and Yogani,
Anuloma viloma is (along with Kapalabhati) the "standard" pranayama taught at all Sivananda ashrams.
Satyananda also describes it (as nadi shodana) in Kundalini Tantra; his view is that harmonizing ida and pingala this way (or harmonizing the brain halves, as he also puts it, in Western/scientific terms) is the 1st step; purifying and awakening each chakra is the 2nd step, awakening the sushumna is the 3rd, and Kundalini rising upp the sushumna the final step. He also lists 7 or 8 paths to Kundalini awakening (by birth, by mantra, by pranayama, etc.), and says that a path based on asana is very time-consuming (spanning several lives) but free from risks or painful post-avakening episodes as it keeps the sadhaka quite grounded.
To my understanding, books like Kundalini Tantra are useful in an ashram life (where you dedicate a month or so of long daily sadhana per chakra, for example) but I find this site much more concise and instructive given a "Western" everyday life.
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Yogsadhak
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2010 : 06:36:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
quote:
Originally posted by brushjw
[quote]"By equalising the flow of prana in the ida and pingala nadis, nadi shodhana pranayama rectifies imbalances due to the 'habitual' predominance of the sympathetic nervous system, which is the result of chronic, ongoing stress. The balancing of the flow of prana has a positive influence on the body's stress response activity, and helps to keep levels of stress and tension within a normal range."
http://www.yogamag.net/archives/199...ranstr.shtml
Hi Joe:
I am aware of this traditional explanation, but it does not explain why slow breathing without alternate nostril regulation also has a relaxing effect. Isn't it true that the first advice people often give to someone who is highly stressed is to breathe slowly and deeply, not necessarily to breathe slowly and deeply through alternate nostrils? Of course, times have changed, and alternate nostril breathing is recommended more often now than in the past. But why does it work? And why does slow breathing without nostril regulation also work?
We should not take mystical explanations on faith, unless they can be verified, no matter how revered a source scripture may be. That is why the AYP lesson goes with the slow breathing explanation, because it is a characteristic found in both alternate nostril breathing and spinal breathing, and both can be relaxing for those who are comfortable in the practice.
Btw, I did nadi shodana pranayama for over 15 years twice daily before switching to spinal breathing pranayama many years ago, and have found the same benefits from spinal breathing, plus much more. Therefore, I was not comfortable parroting the scriptures on nadi shodana, because I knew something else was going on. So I described my experience as I saw it. If it turns out to be inaccurate, I will be more than happy to correct it.
None of this alters the performance or results of either practice, so it is really a question we can hand off to the scientific researchers. Eventually we will find out what is happening. Meanwhile, and happily, the mechanics of the practices and their benefits will remain the same.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
This is off subject but,I have read in Swami Satyananda Saraswati's works that Nadi shodhana in the advanced stages with bandhas,mudras and at very high ratios is sufficient in awakening and raising kundalini even without spinal breathing and deep meditation, In fact Swami Sivananda's book, Kundalini yoga he gives two pranayamas awaken the kundalini: Nadi Shodhana and the other is spinal breathing from muladhar to Sahasrar. |
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Conversation with an Indian teacher about pranayam
