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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 01:33:22 AM
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What is more important - relaxation or concentration? I feel that when i try to concentrate intensely i suddenly have lots of thoughts trying to vie for my attention but when i just try to relax this doesn't happen. I wonder if i am trying too hard.
My reasoning is that meditation occurs when the hypnogogic state is entered - that is, half awake and half asleep. If i can basically relax enough to get to that stage and pull myself out of falling totally asleep, that is remain aware, then i am meditating? I don't think i would find it hard to be aware because my concentration practice would help.
I don't find anything special about the I Am mantra. I get the same results whether i use that or another mantra, listen to white noise or listen to soft meditation music.
Regarding spinal breathing: it is my understanding that when we use the imagination we can only do so in the 1st and 3rd person perspective. This seems to present a problem for me - when doing spinal breathing i am using the imagination to visualise the currents going up and down and this is a mixture of 3rd person and 1st person because i am trying to feel my spine at the same time. This is just confusing. |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 03:43:17 AM
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One more thing.
Yesterday when i meditated i used binaural beats to concentrate on. I had hardly any stressful thoughts come up and it was very easy for me to concentrate on the sound. I must have been able to keep my attention perfectly on the sound without any other invading thoughts for about 4 seconds at one point.
I felt something come over me. It was like a warm feeling inside and my head felt like it went inside somehow. During these experiences, i suddenly felt like i melted into something. It seemed like light was there and it felt really nice. It was a split second thing that happened about 2 times. I don't know if this is falling into sleep or not but i wondered if this was pure bliss consciousness? As soon as it came i was out of it back into thoughts and thinking, "What was that?? That was nice."
Then about 2 hours later i tried to meditate again and suddenly was overwhelmed with stressful thoughts like, "Meditation doesn't work. It doesn't do anything." etc etc and i found it incredibly HARD to concentrate. PLus i have catchy pop tunes in my head all the time and i wonder if this is normal. It is like instead of thinking something with words i am singing the songs.
Maybe i need to self pace.
Another thing. In the first meditation i started to hear other music i like just jump out along with some sort of voice that i couldn't tell was my own but also didn't seem to come from someone else. It seemed like mostly random voices but i remember one of them saying, "I am warning you" and this didn't feel very pleasant. I laughed at it though. Any ideas on what this is? |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 11:06:21 AM
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Pop-songs in your head...yeah, its hell. I know what you mean, sometimes it feels like a clinical problem, but I don't think it's too bad. If anything, perhaps it is simply a long-term test of discipline.
Also, it seems as though you are meditating too often and while I think your experimentation is a good thing, inconsistent meditation practices I think might be conducive to inconsistent "results"
And as far as determing the nature of these states you have achieved, I'd say don't. They are what they are, but what is important in AYP is the mantra. Don;t analyze too much. You remind me a lot of myself and it can seem mighty difficult to do the simple subtle AYP practices, but I have faith that Yogani knows what he's talking about when he keeps saying "keep it simple, keep it simple"
Oh, and I have experience with "voices". I find they often say what your subconcious would have you believe, or maybe reveals what it believes. Your subconcious seems to not want to progress in AYP and it is likely it is speaking to you. I have had the Doubtful Voice speak to me a number of times. Just tell him ##*(&@! |
Edited by - anthony574 on Jul 05 2007 11:08:39 AM |
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 11:09:01 AM
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I think in most cases relaxation is a prerequisite for concentration. I remember not having much ability to concentrate at all until I was about a half hour into my meditation. There was a lot of stress because I was fussy about getting to that point, it took so much energy out of me to do it.
But it did lead to a similar experience that you describe in your second post. It feels like you are sinking into the bed as a body, and inside it feels like you are melting. It is indeed very pleasurable.
Self pacing is always the best option, because I think the body never shifts out of gear. It will always evolve or tend to some part of your being. So it is OK to rest the other areas we have been placing most of our attention on.
It's possible that your sensitivity may start expanding inward even more, and you will probably have more experiences or expressions of energy moving through the web of your nervous system.
Fortunately you have taken the time to study yoga, so as you move along your body's path you can greet your experiences and know them happily.
It is confusing, sometimes, especially when your energy is low and you are soul searching on what you are supposed to be doing in life. There is a lot of ups and downs in this regard, in my case there was. And I'd imagine most experience it in their own way.
But it just gets better and better until better loses its meaning, and then you really let go and let god. |
Edited by - Kyman on Jul 05 2007 11:22:21 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 8:02:12 PM
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If you are trying to follow the AYP methods, you should read the lessons and try to follow them more closely. I don't think they say to relax OR concentrate, but just gently return to the mantra. You are not looking for any special results, you are just always returning to the IAM mantra, and practicing twice a day, consistently, over a long period of time.
You may not be ready for the spinal breathing yet, until you bring up some inner silence from the mantra meditation.
It sounds like you may be too anxious and inconsistent with your practices.
You have to practice the same, twice, everyday and not expect any results, just as you would take a shower or brush your teeth. |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2007 : 06:26:22 AM
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| If it is just repeating the mantra without relaxation or concentration i do not understand the process. I can easily repeat something in my mind but it doesn't do anything. Is something supposed to happen? Don't get me wrong, i have read all the lessons and heard about all the wonderful experiences but these things do not happen to me. What is this "inner silence" you speak of? Can you please clarify and thoroughly explain it. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2007 : 10:56:15 AM
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Hi Gumpi,
Some points for your questions:
1- The value of meditation is only known from consistent practice over weeks, months and years. Without dedicating yourself to doing it regularly, preferably twice every day you will not be able to judge its benefits. It is not something you can accurately measure from one session to another.
2- After consistently using "I am" in the above mentioned way, you will see that it takes you very deep, from my experience deeper than any other forms of meditation that I have used, and I have tried the kinds you mentioned for years at a time.
3- In regards to spinal breathing, use the first person perspective bringing your awareness to the points recommended in the ways described in the main lessons.
4- I personally pay little attention to the way I feel from meditation to meditation. I am more interested in how I feel outside of meditation from my practice efforts. Practice daily and consistently and you will notice.
5- Inner silence is discussed and elaborated upon here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....ID=2726#2726
6- Random voices can come up, they are just the "noise" of purification, simply bring your mind back to the mantra, this process of bringing your mind to the mantra when you realize you are off is the important part.
7- Do the work without questions for a sustained period of time and the results will come.
Good luck,
A |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2007 : 11:49:59 AM
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| Hi Anthem, very informative reply, thank you. I actually feel that Yogananda is my guru and so i will probably go to his teachings from now on. You say the I AM mantra is the most powerful but i was thinking that bhakti is probably more important than anything else. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2007 : 1:58:06 PM
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Yes agreed, without desire to change and making the necessary changes in our lives to progress, it doesn't matter much what we do in the way of spiritual practices.
So if I recall correctly from other threads, if you have substance abuse issues and you do not address them, it will make progress in any spiritual system of practices very difficult, Yogananda, AYP or otherwise.
Best of luck to you on your path my friend,
A |
Edited by - Anthem on Jul 06 2007 2:12:02 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2007 : 6:45:11 PM
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I thought gumpi said he was taking prescribed meds?
Anyway, excellent answers Anthem.
Gumpi:
You don't need to understand the process, and you are still expecting results when you say nothing happens. This is the very first stages of your mind fighting the process. You need long term consistency.
I am a kriyaban in Yogananda's system, and find it much harder to meditate without the mantra as Yogananda suggests. But if he is your guru, follow his lessons, and you will need to dedicate much more time to meditation, energization exercises, pranayama, and finally kriya asanas etc.
How many Yogananda lessons have you read so far?
All the best to you. There are internet groups who are dedicated to yogananda also.
Email me if you want to be on a yogananda listserver (email group)
If you have decided your guru is Yogananda, you should not be experimenting with all these other methods. You should follow Yogananda's recommendations, meditating etc. for a couple hours in the morning and a couple at night, consistently, for a long period of time. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Jul 06 2007 9:17:18 PM |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jul 07 2007 : 06:11:06 AM
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Thank you all for your responses.
Etherfish, i was given the Lessons by someone over the internet. I know this is probably not right. I've been told it is best to get the Lessons through SRF and especially Kriya. So i think i may do this. What do you think?
I shouldn't do any other techniques, like you said.
If you are a Kriyaban of PY's system, why are you not following him? |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 07 2007 : 08:03:05 AM
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Yes it is best to get the lessons through SRF as they are practically free. You have to go through all the lessons, and practices for quite some time before you get the Kriya. They recommend not mixing any other practices with theirs.
I don't follow their system anymore. I did for years and felt I wasn't getting enough results, tried AYP and got much quicker results. That's just what happened with me. I'm not the kind of person who likes being devoted to a guru. Maybe you are.
But whatever path you follow, you have to get rid of substance abuse, and practice twice a day consistently, over a long period of time. |
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