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gentlep
USA
114 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 1:32:26 PM
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| It has been mentioned in AYP that by the yoga practices we burn our Karmas. If that were to be true then why the enlightened ones like Ramana Mahirshi, Ramakrishna, Vivekananda etc. die of terminal illness. The explanation generally given for this is that it was their karma. But why couldn't they get rid of it with their yoga practices. |
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Mattimo
25 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 3:17:45 PM
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| That is a very good question, one that I have pondered as well. I, too, would be interested in hearing anything anyone has to say. Perhaps such individual's longing is so strong to merge completely with the infinite that their bodies begin to fail? |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 3:29:46 PM
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Hi gentlep and mattimo
quote:
then why the enlightened ones like Ramana Mahirshi, Ramakrishna, Vivekananda etc. die of terminal illness.
First of all - these beings stopped identifying with their names and bodies. So whatever illness there was, did not happen to them. Only the bodies. All bodies perish eventually. As to why this happens, I have no idea. All I can think of, is that it is absolutely not a tradgedy. Not for them. They merged completely. And if not for them - who knew - then why for us? Their energy....all their gifts are always here. They are present, even if their bodies are not.
In fact - now they are literally all over the place 
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 3:36:55 PM
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Perhaps they have no need or desire to change the beauty of life as it plays out. Perhaps they know to not interupt the natural order of things. Maybe they are free from concerns of how the bodily karma burns. Why should they want to remove themselves from the ordinary way of a fellow earth-being? They may enjoy being just like us mere mortals. They show us how it is to be awake and accept whatever comes their way without changing what ultimately is designed to be temporary. Maybe not all karmas can be burned with yoga. Or maybe it is the attachment to karma that is burned.
Just some thoughts |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 3:44:00 PM
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I'm reprinting, below, Yogani's posting from this thread: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....&whichpage=3
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Hi All:
I don't think karma is actually "eradicated." It is transformed by the divine flow pouring out through it. In this sense, individuality is not lost either, only expressed increasingly divinely -- through expanding love from within, which is the simultaneous fading of contracted perception.
So where does the karma go? No place. We are only passing through it with expansion rather than contraction. So the expression of karma becomes purified. In fact, this is the meaning of "purification and opening" occurring in our practices, and flowing out into our everyday activities.
The same goes for creating new karma. As long as we are here on earth, we will be creating karma. Each breath we take creates karma. For every action there is reaction. The question is: What is flowing through us in our actions and reactions? This will be the product of our spiritual condition (our abiding inner silence and ecstatic radiance), which is cultivated via effective practices.
Note: Here is something I wrote on transforming karma back in 2005: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....IC_ID=301#65
It could also be regarded as a matter of semantics. If our fear subsides and our conduct becomes more positive and radiant, is our karma gone? I suppose we could say so, at least the negative rendition of it. But, at the same time, we will continue to act through the very same inner impulses we have experienced with fear and loathing in the past. Only now with joy and forbearance. Is that no karma, or transformed karma? You decide.
It was never about the karma, or getting rid of it, was it? We can no sooner get rid of the devil by focusing on getting rid of him. It will only make the contraction stronger. But we can transform the devil into an angel by going beyond to the realm of inner silence, pure bliss consciousness -- becoming That.
All karma (and life) is a sweet little puppy dog when we have become That. Then our karma is the impetus and opportunity for service, so there is no need to get rid of it. In fact, our karma becomes a blessing to us and everyone else. The divine flow is always looking to expand -- it is stillness in action.
Karma, past and present, provides the necessary channels for this.
All the best!
The guru is in you. |
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gentlep
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 4:23:33 PM
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| Thanks everyone for replying. The answers are profound but at present it is beyond my comprehension. So does all this mean if we are destined to suffer we will and no amount or form of yoga is going to help us. Is that it? |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2007 : 5:14:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gentlep
Thanks everyone for replying. The answers are profound but at present it is beyond my comprehension. So does all this mean if we are destined to suffer we will and no amount or form of yoga is going to help us. Is that it?
Yoga can help us see that the suffering self is not the whole of who we are. Physical suffering is of the body, and we are not only the body, but the infinite self experiencing life through the temporary body. Psychological suffering comes about by making a self-identity with mind by perpetuating a belief with thoughts that we are merely the body that experiences something like happiness or sadness, good health or bad. Yoga helps us to expand our perception of who we are beyond the mind and body, as well as freeing us from the psychological suffering of such a narrow identification and allowing us to more freely enjoy the expression of the body and the mind.
That is my understanding of suffering and yoga |
Edited by - Balance on Jul 05 2007 5:35:57 PM |
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gentlep
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2007 : 12:07:12 AM
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| Or is it that the current life is about the prarabdha karma which can to be changed, as it is that part of the karma which is already ripe. And through yoga we can only born sanchita karma. |
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gentlep
USA
114 Posts |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2007 : 7:34:33 PM
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Hi gentlep
The bowman analogy in that article is poetic. Apparently there is no stopping the flight of the arrow that has been released. There are stories though of some of "the great ones" doing things like curing sicknesses and such in the bodies of others. I guess the act of healing is a part of the karma. There are also stories of masters who de-materialize their bodies at will and etc. Most of the greats who died of some disease seem to have accepted whatever inflicted their bodies with grace. Who knows what things they might have changed that we are unaware of? These things are all mysteries to me. Life is a wonderful mystery, sometimes sad and painful and sometimes full of joy and celebration. Perhaps anything is possible.
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Edited by - Balance on Jul 06 2007 8:47:18 PM |
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thimus
53 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2007 : 07:25:42 AM
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Sri Aurobindo said : Indian astrologers told him he would not get much older then 50 years. But spirituality changed that : he became allmost 90. He died of broken hip. Further he says: " when you realise the purusha, this purusha cannot feel any pain".
There is also a story about a guru who died of throatcancer because he swallowed all the sins of his pupils.
In my opinion : spirituality can change a lot but this body had a limited time here on earth. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2007 : 2:52:58 PM
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Here's what Sri Ramana Maharshi had to say on the matter, himself (below).
First, a couple of simple, hopefully helpful definitions to help keep the following quotes clear, and in context:
Jnani = realized being; literally "a manifestation of the One who knows", or more simply, "The Knower".
The alternative is:
Ajnani = a still-dreaming, unrealized individual, "a manifestation of the One, who doesn't {consciously} know", or "a Non-Knower".
Sri Ramana Maharshi on Karma, and identification with the body, and its actions:
"... the electric fan goes on revolving for some minutes, after we switch off the current. The pararabdha (predestined karma) which created the body, will make it go through whatever activities it was meant for. But the jnani* goes through all these activities without notion that he is the doer of them."
"It has to be remembered that these explanations are not for the jnani. He knows and has no doubts. He knows that he is not the body and he knows that he is not doing anything even though the body may be engaged in some activity. These explanations are for the onlookers think of the jnani as one with a body and cannot help identifying the jnani with his body."
When Sri Ramanana was dying of cancer, his disciples begged him to have surgery. He responded, "Why?"
They responded, "So that you won't leave us! Please don't leave us!!"
Sri Ramana asked, "But where would I go?"
He clarifies his perspective here:
"The jnani sees no one as an ajnani. All are only jnanis in his sight. "
"In the state of jnana, the jnani sees nothing separate from the Self."
All quotes from Be As You Are: The Teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi (Edited by David Godman), pp.38-40
Please Note: Clicking on the link above will take you to Amazon.com, where you can Search Inside this book, and/or purchase it, if you wish).
I picked it up at a local yoga studio bookstore last weekend, and have been reading it this past week; I've found it very, very useful. One of the hallmarks of realized teachers that I've seen, is their ability to convey the most profound truths simply, and clearly.
The teachers, guides and friends who I tend to resonate with (i.e. Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Sri Ramana Maharshi, Adyashanti, Yogani, Eckhart Tolle, etc.) all have this ability (to convey the most profound truths simply, and clearly).
I have read various quotes of Sri Ramana Maharshi in the past, and even a bit about his life, but never a full book (in easy-to-read Q&A format, edited by one of his leading disciples, who understands how to position and articulate the material very well, for optimal ease-of-understanding on the part of the reader) of his teachings.
I've found it both very wonderful, literally enlightening, and joyfully Heart-expanding. "Highly Recommended!"
Heart is Where the AUM Is!
Aum Jai Hridayam!
Kirtanman
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2007 : 6:54:11 PM
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quote:
The teachers, guides and friends who I tend to resonate with (i.e. Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Sri Ramana Maharshi, Adyashanti, Yogani, Eckhart Tolle, etc.) all have this ability (to convey the most profound truths simply, and clearly).
Funny this is pretty much my exact list of favorite teachers as well. I would only add Byron Katie (especially in her latest book) and Don Miguel Ruiz (I resonated most with "Voice of Knowledge") to that list also.
The nice thing about these two is that they are still around and actively teaching although Ruiz does so very sparingly these days. The quickest expansions to my awareness other than Kundalini awakening have been from attending retreats with Katie and Ruiz. We're fortunate to have people like this "out there" in the world.
A
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Burning the Karma through Yoga
