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Greg108
29 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 08 2007 : 6:05:47 PM
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I wanted to ask if the AYP Deep Meditation technique (i.e. using the mantra AYAM as a meditation device) is directly related to the method taught in Transcendental Meditation, that is except for the mantra being different.
With respect and sincerity
Greg108 |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
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Greg108
29 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2007 : 7:15:19 PM
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Thank you, recently I read a description of TM that sounded allot like AYP's method so my curiosity was sparked.
Greg108 |
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NagoyaSea
424 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2007 : 10:31:21 PM
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Hi Greg,
some of the meditation practice itself between AYP is TM are similar. However, AYP is more comprehensive, all inclusive, and in my humble opinion, having done both, AYP is far superior and is what I recommend to those who seek to learn.
light and love,
Kathy |
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Greg108
29 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2007 : 11:10:22 PM
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Cool, thanks for the input.
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Greg108
29 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2007 : 5:07:16 PM
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Based on some research I did, it seems to me that TM is Japa Yoga using mantras that are the names of Hindu gods with other information for Samyama developed from Yoga Philosophy of Patanjali- Swami Hariharananda Aranya. Does this sound about right?
Respectfully
Greg108
P.S. Does anyone know about potential dangers in practicing TM and how those dangers are avoided.
G. |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2007 : 5:14:35 PM
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quote:
Does anyone know about potential dangers in practicing TM and how those dangers are avoided.
I think the biggest danger in practicing TM would be to your wallet.
You can easily avoid that by doing AYP instead. |
Edited by - Richard on Jun 10 2007 5:15:55 PM |
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Greg108
29 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2007 : 5:22:21 PM
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It seems to me that AYP's Deep Meditation and Samyama are based on TM, is that true? If that is true then Yogani is saving us allot of time and money by offering these tools for free.
Thank you
Greg108 |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2007 : 5:53:10 PM
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Hi Greg,
I initially started TM in the mid 70's and the main problems I found is that there is little or no backup. Mantra meditation is a common method and is not copied from TM, in fact it existed a long time before TM became popular.DhyanyogiMadhusudandasji who was Gadapati of our lineage when alive crossed in 1994 aged 117yrs old.Obviously he was using mantra meditation before the Mahaharishi Mahesh Yogi as were many others.
L&L
Dave |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2007 : 5:58:19 PM
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Hi Greg, I think it would be more accurate to say that AYP is based on the sutras of Patanjali and the Hatha Yoga Pradipika. You are right on in your second sentence!
Best, yb |
Edited by - yogibear on Jun 10 2007 6:21:55 PM |
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Greg108
29 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2007 : 6:38:11 PM
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Thanks for the feedback.
My comments are in part due to noticing that TM and AYP both recommend doing two 20 minute meditation sessions per day and that the timing in the day is also the same (with similar guidelines for practice). Is this pattern of practice common in other Japa/Mantra traditions?
Thanks
Greg |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2007 : 11:43:33 AM
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Yogani doesn't disclose his specific lineage but he does say that he has drawn inspiration from more than one system. So some degree of TM inspiration would be natural as AYP shares many similarities with TM existed in the US around the same time that Yogani started code busting these practices.
Regardless of whether or not TM was an inspiration or not, AYP happens to represent a further evolution of the original ideals set forth in the TM system: that you don't need a guru or be a Hindu to make spiritual progress, that you don't need to meditate 8 hours a day, that the process is simple and experientially verifiable, and that certain silent mantra meditations can be the basis of making good progress on two 20 minute sessions per day.
At the very least, I'd bet that TM served as an inspiration to Yogani of how not to present these teachings in the West. For instance, Maharishi was caught between being a teacher and a guru. And the system suffered from the same uncertainty. Yogani has certainly addressed the guru-proofing question!
Of course, it remains very possible that the similarities between the two systems co-evolved independently with their similarities simply being that there are only so many ways to skin a cat.
Yoda
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Greg108
29 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2007 : 2:01:11 PM
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It seems like from my own research that the system of TM is based on 1. information received from a teacher directly, 2. modification of that original material and 3. manipulation of that same information and then also information that is presented as received but is actually researched from other teachers and books and then presented as unique. Mantak Chia's Healing Tao is another example of this type of situation. Mantak Chia I believe got actual Taoist yoga from a Taoist in HK called Yi Eng, but I think he added to it and changed it in an effort to "improve" on it (such as hard breathing vs. traditionally very soft breathing, etc...). I think he also over the years "developed" other practices and presented them with little or no disclosure about there origin and lineage. In investing time, energy and faith in systems and teachers over the years I have developed a little bit of caution and interest in the origin and lineage of these traditions and practices.
I do not mean any disrespect to anyone or any lineage. I guess I just need this type of info to have the kind of faith I feel I need for the long haul.
Greg108 |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2007 : 2:41:20 PM
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Greg,
the traditions mythologize themselves though -- and that, the mythologization, is priestcraft, the marketing side of the worlds joint-oldest profession. Generally, I'm inclined to suggest that we take a lot of that, especially over-emphasis on lineages, and over-blown lineages, with a grain of salt.
I respect openness much more. I would entreat leaders of all systems to throw away the layers of pretense, of pedestals and mythical lineages, and say what you know or believe, and why. In the light of openness, we will learn more and will make fewer mistakes.
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Greg108
29 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2007 : 6:16:16 PM
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Thanks for your thoughts David, I couldn't agree more. Personally, getting the big picture regarding the background of a system (such as TM) to me is part of being a good student and practitioner of these ancient sciences. Do we have to know why things work, no. Do we have to understand how they were developed, not really. It does have meaning to me though if we can see what it looks like when the results of a practice over time can be observed in the life experience of thousands of people. We can benefit from their experience and mistakes, from what went right and what went wrong (with the practices, the organization and the teacher student relationships). I cannot live these many lives, but I can see how many different kinds of people lived there lives using and being apart of these systems (how an approach helped and in some cases maybe harmed them).
Regards
Greg108 |
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Greg108
29 Posts |
Posted - Jun 22 2007 : 1:42:25 PM
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Thought I would recommend this book.
I just read Alistair Shearer's translation of The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali and I think it makes a perfect companion to AYP. He is a proponent of TM and is a Sanskrit scholar, so it was delivered in a language and style that closely matched how mediation and Samyama are presented in AYP.
Sincerely
Greg108 |
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2009 : 10:46:28 PM
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Interesting page (http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/srividya.htm) discussing the origins of the TM mantras, for those interested in history I guess.
quote:
from http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/srividya.htm
TM is Tantra and Trika at it's finest
But it depends on what you mean by the term 'tantric' - if by that term you mean someone who practices ritualized magical group coitus, or left-handed basket weaving, he was not. Guru Dev may or may not have possessed a Sri Chakra, as reported by Swami Rama of the Himalayas. But from all reports, our Guru Deva was a Siddha Yogi from Ayodhya, whose original name was Rajaram Mishra. According to my sources, Guru Dev was a nominal member of his family sect, the Ramanandis of Ayodyha.
TM and the Eighty-four Mahasiddas
The TM mantras probably originated with the so-called Eighty-four Siddas, the Nath alchemists of medieval India. The Sri Vidya cult came much later, following the Gupta age and the age of the sects - Shaivaism, Vaisnavism, Shaktism in the 12th century and Bhakti after Chaitanya, in the 15th century. In my opinion, Guru Dev was following the Nath Siddha path, as well as the path of the Sri Vidya. Guru Dev was a Shakta Tantrist who practiced hatha yoga and was a expert in the Adwaita scriptures. However, I could be wrong.
It is a fact that all the Shankaracharyas agree that the Saraswati Dasanamis worship the Sri Vidya. It is also a fact that the Sri Chakra is ensconced on the mandir at Dwarka, Kanchi, and the Sringeri Mathas. It is also a fact that all the Adwaita Sannyasins claim that Adi Shankara established four mathas as seats of learning and for the worship of Sri Vidya.
Note that TM was initially called Deep Meditation when it was first brought to England. Whether they are same or related? They are both great. What's important, to me, is which has less muck surrounding it. In that sense AYP is better. The TMO lost it when it started with astrology and other non-scientific things.
-- jo-self |
Edited by - Jo-self on May 11 2009 11:00:11 PM |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2009 : 12:51:09 PM
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I was trained personally by the late Maharishi Mahesh Yogi as a TM initiator in 1976. I know that Yogani does not speak specifically about HIS spiritual lineage, but from what I've seen, I'd guess he was also trained by Maharishi, as much of AYP is directly taken from things Maharishi taught. It's just that people like Yogani and myself moved past, or beyond the basic TM teachings, ignoring the parts of it that got "weird" over the past 25 or so years (a lot of it got very weird!), and moved into additional advanced types of practices. In any case--yes, there are many similarities. In my mind, these days, TM is way overpriced, and so I no longer teach it within the structure of the official TM movement--but also because I do not wish to be associated with all of their weirdness. But I still do the practices and techniques Maharishi gave me so many years ago, and they DO work. After 0ver 35 years doing TM and TM-Sidhis, I have progressed spiritually beyond my wildest imagination in life. Of course, I was full-time in the TM movement for some years, and having become a teacher, that also speeded my evolution. Still, TM is a simple and effective technique.
Michael |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - May 20 2009 : 10:30:04 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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Transcendental Meditation
