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enlightenmealready
USA
37 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 24 2007 : 5:14:56 PM
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Greetings all.
First, I feel obligated to thank Yogani for this site. They say that when the student is ready the teacher will appear.
I started looking for a spiritual path a few years back. I've been consistently frustrated by finding possible paths and finding that either a literal price tag, and / or a "control" price tag is attached.
Yesterday, I reached a peak in frustration and decided that "I'm going to figure this Yoga / Gnostic Religion / Spirituality thing out for myself and make the knowledge freely available to anyone who wanted it, no strings attached!"
And then I found this site. Thankfully I don't think I'll have to go through all that work now ;-)
Anyway, I've been poking around at Kriya Yoga. As I stated, It seems that the only sources for Kriya yoga that I've found require swearing an oath to one guru or another. I've also read a little about Kundalini Yoga. It seems that Kriya may very well be Kundalini repackaged with Guru loyalty built in.
Since I am an admitted novice with no direct knowledge of either of these practices, can anyone tell me if this perception is accurate?
In the long run, I guess it doesn't matter. I think AYP is something I'm going to be comfortable with.
Thanks,
EnlightenMeAlready
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yoginstar
Netherlands
78 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2007 : 6:37:28 PM
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it depends on where you are coming from EnlightenMeAlready.
Your perception seems clear as glass to me.
Greetings from Dawn Oken. |
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Thokar
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2007 : 6:49:26 PM
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hi and welcome... you are somewhat right about kriya.. most places want u to swear an oath... but I have a website that gives all of the kriya techniques away for free...
www.kriyayogainfo.net Goto the download section of the website and download the 2d part of the ebook... The original kriya and all the higher kriyas are described there... If you are an absolute beginner id just do the 1st kriya for a while and also reading the ayp lessons on here and practicing deep meditation will give u a better background for it... oh and also the spinal breathing that yogani teaches on this site is very very similar to the first kriya... |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2007 : 7:08:36 PM
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Hi EnlightenMeAlready and welcome to the forum!
Glad you found this site to save you from doing all the research yourself! It's important to keep in mind that each system is a complete set of practices, so it's probably wise to stick to one of them. If you do both there is a great chance of doubling-up effect, which could create unpleasant symptoms of excessive energies.
Best wishes!  |
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enlightenmealready
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2007 : 7:39:36 PM
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Thanks for the input. Don't let that stop other from inject more thought however. ;-)
I should also add that I'm not necessarily interested in following more than one path. I've just been trying to find a teacher of Kriya that did not require making an oath that I am not comfortable making. It was in this search that I found this website.
I'll definitely be giving the AYP methodology a try for a while.
Thokar,
I tried emailing directly to thank you for the link, but I don't have enough posts logged to do that yet. I look forward to reading your documentation.
Thanks again to everyone.
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2007 : 7:50:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by enlightenmealready
can anyone tell me if this perception is accurate?
Thanks,
EnlightenMeAlready
Hello & Welcome, EnlightenMeAlready,
You sound pretty serious about the Enlightenment thing (don't worry - you'll get over it, and with that one step, you'll become JustAboutRealized!   ).
So, I guess I should be the one to break it to you:
NO perception is accurate.
("There is no such thing as a true belief" - Adyashanti)
To actually do my best to try to answer your question, though:
In my opinion, you're very, very close to the opinion / experience of at least several of us here at AYP - in fact, at least a few of us are "escapees" from one flavor (system, "brand", denomination, etc. etc.) of Kriya Yoga or another - which includes having escaped (relatively unscathed, hopefully) from the attendant cultural rigidity and requisite oaths of "guruic" fealty.
Most of us who have this "profile" of personal yogic / spiritual history could see the vast potential value in Kriya Yoga (which is very real) - but were uncomfortable with the requirements to have to purchase the "package deal" (kriyas, guru and traditions at "one low (high?) price" - no substitution allowed - "Join us for 'Siddhi Saturdays' - Mahasiddhis 2 for 1 with multi-lifetime commitment ...!" ).
So, yes, as we sometimes say around here -- "like that".
In fact, if you're at all like me - you've probably spent some time thinking, "Man - if only there was a yoga tradition that was like the "best of the best" ...
*The best practices, evaluated, refined and clearly articulated, in order to offer the best results in the safest and most comfortable manner.
*An awakened leader / teacher who didn't require a disciple-guru commitment - yet was available to lead, guide and instruct as a friend and respected mentor.
*No secrecy.
*No requirement to take on a certain set of beliefs or cultural spin (including troubling yet often unworkable items such as a requirement for lifetime celibacy).
*No "time for a second mortgage" financial commitments (or any other kind, except for any self-determined donations of any kind - money, time, etc. -- meaning: this aspect of sadhana would be totally self-determined by the individual, and not mandated / strongly suggested, by the group itself.)
*No moratorium on thinking your own thoughts, having your own views - and even discussing them!
*A group of like-minded sadhakas who weren't into politics or spiritual ego trips -- but who would just share and offer kind-hearted community, and the kind of wisdom that can only come from a core motivation of love and authentic intention toward enlightenment (especially in the consciousness game, "all of us is smarter than any of us"!  )
So, "in conclusion":
Welcome Home.
And yes -- Kriya Yoga and AYP are quite similar, in terms of focus - the "cornerstone" being specific use of pranayama and visualization, to facilitate kundalini awakening, and related "neurospiritual" evolution. AYP just (per the experience of at least several of us here) leaves Kriya Yoga in the dust, per Yogani's ultra-insightful balancing of the cultivation of kundalini / ecstatic energy, via spinal breathing / pranayama (and supporting practices / mudras, etc.) and the cultivation of access to, and awareness of, our own Inner Silence via AYP mantra-based meditation.
There's literally a post somewhere in the Forum (if you search on the term "kriya" you can probably find it) - where a person states that they literally experienced more yogic advancement in a few months of AYP practice, than in over twenty years of sadhana with one of the most well-known kriya yoga groups / programs in the world (maybe the most well-known ....).
I agree with Thokar that the "open source kriya" e-book is a good one (we're serious about the "no secrecy, no sense of competition with other systems" thing here! ) - and worth the read - especially from the standpoint of reading about another individual's major progress, practicing a similar type of yoga to what most of us practice (or have practiced).
One word of caution though: purely from a logical standpoint, it is not recommended (specifically by Yogani - and echoed by many other AYPers, including me) to arbitrarily "mix and match" practices - just because the results can potentially blindside you - even if you're experienced enough to be "sure" that they won't.
Much of what the kriya book recommends, have direct corollaries in AYP. If there's a practice mentioned in the book that seems really desirable or intriguing - by all means, post here in the Forum about it for input, and/or email Yogani.
And Yogani is accessible "above and beyond the call", and always shows himself to be here to help -- so, out of respect for his time, and per the fact that the Forum members can often provide the same input that Yogani would provide - along with some good discussion (not to mention the fact that all public posts add to our shared knowledge-base - which has more value than is often readily apparent) -- it's usually best to start by posting here.
If it's really personal / private - then by all means, email Yogani. If there's a point in a given dialog where Yogani's input is needed, it usually "magically" appears (he has the "ability see all Forum posts" siddhi .... ) - or one of us will say "you may want to email Yogani, at this point ..."
So, again - welcome!
Hang around a bit - this whole enlightenment thing can actually be kinda fun ....
Cheers, Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
PS - For a great resource concerning what enlightenment is and isn't, please check out Silicon Valley's best-known "local enlightened guy", Adyashanti -- www.Adyashanti.org. Several of us here dig him and his stuff -- and it dovetails seamlessly with AYP. AYP (understandably, per its name and nature) is more "practices focused", where Adya's stuff is more "awareness and inquiry focused". The best way I know to get a quick "feel" for Adyashanti, is to visit the Teachings section of his site, and check out a few of his video clips. And I know there are quite a few others, but I personally consider Yogani and Adyashanti to be the two clearest examples I know, of what "normal enlightened" looks like.
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Thokar
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2007 : 9:07:43 PM
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| enlightenmealready- I believe I may have made a mistake in my sentence to make it sound like the kriya book is my book... It is not... just to let u know ahead of time... I was just providing the link... I dont personally know the author, but I have read the entire book and can vouch for the authors lineage and the techniques authenticity.. |
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enlightenmealready
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2007 : 11:09:31 PM
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Thokar,
Got you. I did misunderstand. Good link anyway.
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Hunter
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2007 : 11:10:59 PM
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Enlightenmealready,
Welcome to the forum. Enjoy!
Hunter |
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Swami Vajra
42 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2007 : 12:34:45 AM
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enlightenmealready,
As an ordained swami of a Kriya lineage I can state with full authority..........stick with the AYP approach. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2007 : 10:18:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by enlightenmealready
Anyway, I've been poking around at Kriya Yoga. As I stated, It seems that the only sources for Kriya yoga that I've found require swearing an oath to one guru or another. I've also read a little about Kundalini Yoga. It seems that Kriya may very well be Kundalini repackaged with Guru loyalty built in.
Since I am an admitted novice with no direct knowledge of either of these practices, can anyone tell me if this perception is accurate?
In the long run, I guess it doesn't matter. I think AYP is something I'm going to be comfortable with.
Hi EMA,
Welcome to the forum.
Well, if you are shopping around for a spiritual practice.. You may want to try AYP and see.
The best way of course is to start reading from the beginning Lesson 10 (The first in this series) - Why This Discussion?
You can start with deep meditation Lesson 13 - Meditation -- Awakening the Silent Seed and then take it from there.
The www.kriyayogainfo.net is really good. It is very detailed. However, I find Yogani's lessons very simple to understand and follow. Also, he has integrated various techniques and come up with very effective practices that don't take too much time. He has also picked the best from different kind's of yoga, like Kundalini Yoga, Kriya yoga, Tantra yoga, etc.. to give us the best tools available.
Here is a little bit more about AYP...
quote:
AYP (Advanced Yoga Practices) is an open and integrated system of advanced yoga practices. It integrates principles and streamlines practices from bhakti yoga, mantra yoga, kriya yoga, raja yoga, hatha yoga, kundalini yoga and tantra techniques.
Whereas AYP has not introduced new yoga practices, it has departed from the usual pattern of yoga teaching, in which the advanced practices are kept secret and only revealed under the guidance of a guru.
Anyone following the AYP techniques is encouraged to go at their own speed in taking on new practices; much attention is devoted in the lessons to developing skills in "self-pacing," with the aim of assisting every practitioner to become self-sufficient in yoga. This contrasts with the more traditional approach in which a guru sets the pace for the practitioner.
OK.. now that I am done with my sales pitch. Let me know if I managed to sell AYP to you.
Wish you all the best in whichever spiritual path you chose. |
Edited by - Shanti on Jan 25 2007 5:21:49 PM |
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ranger
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2007 : 6:09:32 PM
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Without badmouthing anyone - I did some research on the kriya/loyalty oath thing, and as far as I can tell it's the familiar pattern of a charismatic individual with a high degree of realization starting something that later is codified and rigidified by followers.
I can't remember where, but recently I came across a pithy quote along the lines of "Religions were formed to shield their followers from a direct experience of God."
Religious organizations can be wonderful and I attend several on a fairly regular basis, but always with a grain of salt. |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2007 : 7:14:52 PM
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Hi EMA,
Welcome. Well I cannot speak for Kundalini yoga of the yogi bhajan tradition but Kriya yoga is definately not repackaged Kundalini Maha Yoga as there seems little similarities between the two.Unfortunately you seem to be under the misapprehension (as are others on here) that following a guru automatically brings guru worship and obedience to the point of being abused as some false guru's have done in the past.Strangely enough these same guru's have been quoted on here at times and their philosophies supported.Of course not everyone's experience of 'guru's' has been a positive experience and not everyone is fortunate enough to find a genuine guru.
L&L
Dave |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2007 : 7:16:07 PM
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Without badmouthing anyone - I did some research on the kriya/loyalty oath thing, and as far as I can tell it's the familiar pattern of a charismatic individual with a high degree of realization starting something that later is codified and rigidified by followers.
Ranger, without badmouthing anyone either, I'll take it a little further -- there is a familiar pattern of a charismatic individual usually with some high degree of realization, but imperfect wisdom as is the nature of human beings, starting something that is imperfect and flawed just like everything in the world is, one of the flaws being that that person, directly or indirectly, mythologizes themselves to be more than they are; consequently, when flaws are discovered, they are assumed to be the flaws of the later followers, rather than the flaws/limitations of the original founders.
The basic rule is that you (usually) don't mythologize yourself directly -- that's considered bad form -- instead, you mythologize your own master, and your followers are thereby taught (by example) to mythologize you in return. In this manner, you establish yourself to be more than you are, without it being understood by the followers that you are cultivating a mythology of yourself to be more than you are.
Another rule is that whenever there is someone god-like at the top, there is really someone less-than-god-like at the top.
Guru-mythologization 101. Excuse the impromptu speech.
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enlightenmealready
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2007 : 7:39:39 PM
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I'm sticking with AYP unless I find good cause to search elsewhere. It is the most simple and honest practice that I have found yet. I find the website and the audio files to be very refreshing. Open Source spirituality is a great thing.
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New User with a few question
