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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 03 2022 : 05:36:56 AM
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Once a yogi discovers they can spur arousal within the shushumna (with intention & attention), the biggest trap becomes an attachment to this pleasure, a coveting and chasing of the experience. I know because this was me early in conductivity. So many times I took this dilemma into self inquiry for guidance. It took a while to realize I was framing arousal as “confined to my physical body”, the territory between the root and the third eye, when actually my shushumna begins at muladhara, and extends well out beyond the Ajna/crown/bindu, a silent, love-filled, pleasurable and malleable tunnel connecting to All, the pathway out of this Earthly plane upon bodily death, and our path to liberation.
I realized instead of directing/amplifying/spurring energy, my right path forward is to simply BE in silence, with an intention of an open shushumna. Any arousal that happens to manifest from that state is to be enjoyed and surrendered, there is nothing for me to “do” about it, simply BE with it as it ebbs and flows, comes and goes on its own terms, in that particular moment. As yogis we tend to think of our bodies as objects like vessels, or temples, or containers, when in my reality it feels I am more like a sponge in which silence and sensations pass through my being, unannounced, unprovoked. In this beyond-flesh approach, there is little desire or attachment to unearthing pleasure; I simply pursue daily practice in the spirit of openness and reception. Whatever is granted is radiated easily, there is no need or desire to hoard it within, and in realizing this, I am closer to That. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2022 : 08:12:49 AM
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2022 : 09:11:52 AM
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Hello Dogboy
quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy
As yogis we tend to think of our bodies as objects like vessels, or temples, or containers, when in my reality it feels I am more like a sponge in which silence and sensations pass through my being, unannounced, unprovoked.
Our mental representations of our bodies evolve to match our experiential sense of self, which changes with our spiritual outlook.
Enjoy the journey |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2022 : 8:14:51 PM
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Welcome back BR, you must have been on holiday  Sey |
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interpaul
USA
551 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2022 : 6:28:48 PM
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| Dogboy, I appreciate your sharing this perspective as I can relate to the earlier stage you describe of attachment and chasing these experiences. Having a signpost of the richer stage you are in now gives another way to envision these energies being directed (or more accurately released from control). |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Sep 05 2022 : 02:03:39 AM
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| Thank you Interpaul. Since the pandemic years, my practices have simplified and gelled, my shushumna awareness ever expanding, and the knowing the physical body is only the tip of the tether. In openness and deep silence, All can be experienced and explored safely. |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2022 : 01:34:43 AM
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Yogani’s advice on pleasure, lesson 64:
quote:
Was it ever said here that spiritual practice is not supposed to be pleasurable? Just the opposite. If it is pleasurable, it is just right. The path to enlightenment is a path of pleasure.
Having said that, make sure you do not completely disrupt the structure and procedure of practices with your ecstatic reveries. Remember, you are going for much more than beginning experiences of ecstasy. If you stay true to your practices, the experiences will steadily advance.
Spiritual practice can evolve into a wonderful ecstatic party twice a day. It will, and it will spread out into every corner of life. But make sure it remains a party with a plan. Continue to follow the easy procedures for pranayama and meditation. Remember that engaging the attention excessively in experiences will be at the cost of spiritual practices. As for what you do with it as it expands into your daily life outside practices, it is entirely up to you. Enjoy!
So party on, but do it responsibly. There is much more in store if you keep your practices intact no matter how good the experiences get.
The guru is in you.
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2022 : 02:29:45 AM
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Self inquiry helped me in this experience. Lesson 331:
quote:
Those who are truly able to let go will notice the energetic processes occurring within them, and do what is necessary to optimize them for a speedy and safe journey into realization. Those who hang on to a fixed view will face the ironic situation of hanging on to letting go, to the exclusion of everything else, including the actual process of human spiritual transformation that is occurring!
…Relational self-inquiry can be used to favor progress in stillness over the temptations of infatuation with the inevitable ecstatic energy experiences that will happen along the way. We can release them in self-inquiry, just as we can all identifications with experience we may be prone to indulge in.
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interpaul
USA
551 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2022 : 7:39:49 PM
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Dogboy, Thanks for sharing these quotes as reminders of Yogani's teachings. We have spoken before of this topic. On the first quote, it emphasizes the importance of avoiding favoring the ecstatic scenery DURING SBP/DM. This makes good sense. I recall Christi sharing a link to an article he wrote acknowledging the ecstatic energy can start to infuse the silence at a certain point in practices. This has been a wonderful development I've experienced and it is helpful to be reminded to stay focued on the task at hand.
The second quote raises some questions for me. Separate from self pacing with overload symptoms, what is your interpretation of these guidelines for "optimize them for a speedy and safe journey into realization", i.e. will active tantric explorations encourage quicker progress or backfire. A tough boundary for someone who has always been drawn to the ecstatic end.
This idea of using relational self inquiry to favor stillness over ecstatic requires a stable relational self inquiry state which I can't report at present. |
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Walter
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2022 : 1:51:50 PM
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Thank you, Dogboy, and all previous responders, for this helpful post.
As one whose body is nearing the end of its given span, while it still endures I look toward experiences of an interim state between life and death. The inner silence you speak of, and means of attaining it, would seem to lead toward such a desirable interim state - if, in reality, there is any ‘interim state’.
My ‘simplified’ (extensively paraphrased) version of the Bhagavad-Gita indicates that at the time of death one should “close the doors of all the senses, fill the heart to overflowing with feelings of love, draw up the life force through the sushumna to be concentrated between the eyebrows, and leave the body through the sahasrara”. But, does anything really ‘leave’ anything?
My current inclination is - if I am conscious enough at that time to have any control in the matter - to (attempt to) be in deep inner silence when that moment arrives. With this in mind, and as preparation, I have recently been practicing cosmic samyama, but with only limited ‘success’ so far, due to overactive monkey brain and/or successive brief losses of consciousness (Yogic sleep?).
I would appreciate any comments you and/or others may wish to make on any aspects of this approach.
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2022 : 01:16:27 AM
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Interpaul:
quote:
The second quote raises some questions for me. Separate from self pacing with overload symptoms, what is your interpretation of these guidelines for "optimize them for a speedy and safe journey into realization", i.e. will active tantric explorations encourage quicker progress or backfire. A tough boundary for someone who has always been drawn to the ecstatic end.
This idea of using relational self inquiry to favor stillness over ecstatic requires a stable relational self inquiry state which I can't report at present.
The first part of the sentence states “for those who are truly able to let go…” which is the key; establishing a strong foundation of inner silence that is tangible to the yogi makes for speedy and safe ecstatic journey. Overload is body centric, and occurs when practices get ahead of what the body can currently absorb. At some point of purification (and grounding) ecstatic states become less of an overload issue. Someone with boundary and attachment fears should tread cautiously, but forward, with stability. |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2022 : 01:27:45 AM
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| Hello again Walter, so good you are checking in! I believe your Bhagvadaa-Gita plan sounds like a good one, and familiarizing yourself with and incorporating Cosmic Samyama in “the end game” will aid in your moment of passing. I know the last time you checked in you were facing quite a few mobility and health issues. May your spirits be strong and I hope your practices provide you with relief and clarity |
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interpaul
USA
551 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2022 : 05:22:02 AM
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Dogboy, Thanks for your suggestions.
Walter, Thank you for sharing your vision of this not often discussed transition. I admire your continued explorations and hope to continue my practices well into my twilight years. With respect to cosmic samayama, I added this to my practice about a year ago. it is a wonderfully powerful experience. Are you able to calm your mind with SBP/DM/Samyama? Are you doing cosmic samyama after these practices and while lying down? |
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Walter
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2022 : 10:38:04 PM
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Thank you Dogboy. Yes,I have a host of nonagenarian issues, but not immediately life threatening; still time,I hope, to prepare more fully for the transition. Your help in this most gratefully acknowledged. And yes, spirit is strong and practices the mainstay of my preparation. I hope to continue to report from time to time and I know support from the forum will be forthcoming whenever requested.
Interpaul, thank you too, as always,for your support. Good to know you have benefited so much yourself from cosmic samyama; that is very encouraging. Yes, I do this practice lying down, and yes again,I am able to calm my mind with SBP/DM/Samyama, but not always well enough. An unfortunate(?) frequent occurrence is that the more my mind becomes calm, the more I tend to drift into sleep. Age and medications possibly contribute to this. Sometimes the sleep is deep and prolonged, maybe an hour or more, sometimes in brief and frequent spells,semi-conscious,in that I know where I had been up to in the samyama sequence,and am able to continue where I left off until the next spell of sleep. But in actual fact,I don't really know what is optimal; I just do my best, and accept what comes.
Such a pity I discovered this forum so late, but literally a Godsend to have become aware of it in time. Seven hugely rich years since then and still counting, this latter aspect probably entirely due to the former. My heartfelt thanks to Yogani and you all.  |
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Blanche
USA
873 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2022 : 1:45:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Walter
Thank you, Dogboy, and all previous responders, for this helpful post.
As one whose body is nearing the end of its given span, while it still endures I look toward experiences of an interim state between life and death. The inner silence you speak of, and means of attaining it, would seem to lead toward such a desirable interim state - if, in reality, there is any ‘interim state’.
My ‘simplified’ (extensively paraphrased) version of the Bhagavad-Gita indicates that at the time of death one should “close the doors of all the senses, fill the heart to overflowing with feelings of love, draw up the life force through the sushumna to be concentrated between the eyebrows, and leave the body through the sahasrara”. But, does anything really ‘leave’ anything?
My current inclination is - if I am conscious enough at that time to have any control in the matter - to (attempt to) be in deep inner silence when that moment arrives. With this in mind, and as preparation, I have recently been practicing cosmic samyama, but with only limited ‘success’ so far, due to overactive monkey brain and/or successive brief losses of consciousness (Yogic sleep?).
I would appreciate any comments you and/or others may wish to make on any aspects of this approach.
Hi Walter,
We all "practice" dying every night when we go to sleep. Orgasm gives as another taste if this interim state - "la petite mort" = the little death in French. Yogis go to this interim state between life and death in meditation.
Reading The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, often called just The Tibetan Book of the Dead, helps to navigate the Bardo (the in between state). Tibetan yogis read and memorize this book, and they read it aloud for their friends on their death bed and in the hours and days after their passing from the physical body. One of my teachers read it for Thich Nhat Hanh, even though they were on different continents at the time of his death.
All the best for your journey!
The guru is in you.
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interpaul
USA
551 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2022 : 6:17:16 PM
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| Walter, Falling asleep is definitely a risk, I have had that happen at times. The bottom line is this is not a competition. If you continue the practices they slowly refine and improve. Even if they don't, they are very pleasant and I believe have effects beyond our conscious awareness. I continue to be amazed by how powerful samyama and cosmic samayama are. My rational mind can still question what the value of "releasing a word into silence" is and yet my experience is much richer. It's fun realizing I have different "voices" in my head that have different agendas. If you find some calming and deepening in the practice keep doing it and I suspect you will continue to gain more from the practice over time. The mind has a way of rewiring, even as we age, to refine behaviors. Definitely keep us updated on your progress. You are an inspiration to me and I'm sure many on this forum. |
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Walter
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2022 : 12:21:57 AM
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Hello again, Blanche. And thank you again for your very welcome comments and well wishes. What you say is much appreciated and has raised pertinent questions, but which, I think, do not really belong to Dogboy's topic, being somewhat distracting from it, so I shall post them separately. Meantime, let me say how much I value your wisdom and warm support.
Interpaul. Thank you for your interesting and pertinent addendum and for sharing relevant experiences of your own. We seem to share a range of 'uncertainties', and accept them as natural concomitants of our spiritual journey. I agree fully with what you say. Perseverance definitely called for, but without looking for 'results'; I accept that these may well emerge in quite a different form from any preconceptions, as, it seems, has been your own experience. |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2022 : 02:02:21 AM
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quote:
Perseverance definitely called for, but without looking for 'results'.
Or attaching to them, the intention of this topic. When “in yoga” we open to our reserves of inner silence, those body-bound desires dissolve in the process. |
Edited by - Dogboy on Sep 14 2022 02:03:00 AM |
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Attachment to Pleasure
