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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 12 2007 : 3:03:45 PM
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Hi Christi
Thanks for checking to see if I am okay with this. Yes I'm fine with it all. I just felt like recording the experiences here as they seem to have ramped up lately, and I was curious with the possibility that many of us might be having similar experiences at the same time. Interestingly, since the day I wrote the above post things died down a lot. Sometimes when I talk or post about such experiences they seem to suddenly go away. Coincidence? It's funny, sometimes I wonder if it's all imagination. The only tangible things that are real evidence that my practice is really "doing anything" are increased peace and overall acceptance of situations and such, and definate sexual response, especially just after practice, which is sort of hard to deal with as I don't necessarily want to awaken sexual desire at this time. I'm still a newbie with all this, just over a year under my belt. I guess it could take some time before this kundalini is free to travel.
Thanks for writing, Alan |
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yoginstar
Netherlands
78 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2007 : 5:53:25 PM
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Hi Kirtanman,
in running too fast on the one end, and too slow on the other, it is only now that I read the sequel of your posts and your question: how to know when things are really too tough.
In my own experience over the last weeks, I would say I personally am going from fragile wonder to sheer almost hopelessness and despair from the heavy seriousness of it all. I guess -pacing up and down- needs some techniques, at the right time. I guess when all comes down to it we're intuitively led to the answers or the questions.
As in the questions are the answer and the answers are the question, what next?
As in the past equals not the future, but how to bind the timing of the future together?
on both an individual as well as a more colletivized yet not too collectivized basis. It depends on the level and the time. It is SOOOOOO difficult, I cant even begin to explain my current experiences between exstacy and yes, one word that you used, almost giving up. (many times per day....)
Interestingly enough I found some original cd's with Indian music / mantra's back tonight: one of the mails in this thread was signed with Kumar and at the same time I found a few cd's back, one of them called SOUND SHAPES Music of the Mountins / Shiv Kumar Sharma - it cleared my mind instantly, and another one: Parallel Worlds, Mantra & Trancemusic "O Great Spirit" : i was all of a sudden able to actually get some WORK done with that music on the background, it equalizes the levels on the right level for clarity of mind (for me). Until of course I get muddeep into the routines of the past again when my courage sinks to below zero degrees again... and that is time for self pacng and stopping and doing something different. To me it starts to seem like this may have to continue for weeks still, hour after hour, each day a little more, no end in sight. Yet hopefully a more and more adjusted participation mystique or something.
From the point of the view of sheer desperation and needing some mental clarity back, these cd's were, at the right time, what I would call life saving. So what you are saying is that things need to be handled less carefully and more forcefully? I get so destructive if I do, according to some. Yet at the same time there are different things evolving.
One of the interesting things for me to work through in my own karma/dharma rubbish, is the problem of Cancer, both in astrology, as well as healthwise.
I seem to develop an allergy and absolute panick at the most sensitive times, to do with people who think they care about me, yet do not know who I am. Even if they are family (having lost my own id anyway, I dont even know who I am, I know who I was and what I wish to be, yet I do not know who I am, unless I place myself in a situation of relationship.
On the crownlevel or baselevelor heartlevel level it is incredibly difficult to distinguish relationship-issues with the external world, on one level it is so, on another it is not, as we enter the past and the future together.
I think we need to keep one another sane via this group effort.
For one of the other things which involve enlightenment is the darkness of the void, the being sucked back in into panick and fear. Love seems to arouse hatred. In very sensitive/sensitized times as these, I just can hardly deal with the junk I get in my email systems, I have just given up on the externals more or less, where that is concerned, and focus on getting myself sorted out.
But I can't do it alone....
Thanks for your mails.
"yoginstar":-)
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 06:45:06 AM
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Hi Kirtanman,
quote:
the energy in the crown doesn't mean Realization is imminent (if it does, please let me know ...<---- though a lot've good it'll do me! ).
As you asked if the beginning of the opening of your crown chakra meant that realization was immanent....
I recently found this on the internet:
quote:
The seventh chakra function concerns spiritual connection. It's located at the top of the head and is called the "crown chakra". It's Sanskrit name is "Sahasrara" which means "thousand petaled lotus".
The 7th chakra activation takes place between the ages of 43 to 49 and can be re-learned at a higher octave between the ages of 92 to 98.
The seventh chakra is the power of consciousness.
This is the crowning point of the chakra system. If we manage to open this center during our lives, we have reached the highest state of consciousness one can obtain - where we have actually elevated our consciousness - personal will - through the bodies of the physical (1st to 3rd chakras), emotional (4th chakra), mental (5th), intuitive (6th) and now, finally the causal (7th), Divine Will for our life.
This is the center of enlightenment, alignment with the Universal Self - realizing divine reality in our lives. Until one has opened their crown chakra, one views themself in their multiplicity - one is still differentiating themself from the "All". The final step is merging one's energy field with the Universal Energy Field (at this point Kundalini will be activated) through the 7th chakra center.
Whatever we have understood intellectually, and later intuitively up to this point, will reach a whole new level of comprehension when this center is working at full capacity. The awareness given to us by the seventh chakra goes far beyond the knowledge given by the 6th or intiuitive chakra, for here, at the seventh, we are no longer separated from the object of our perception.
In Tantra, the awakening of the crown chakra (the last one to be awakened so the highest level of spiritual perfection) corresponds to the union of "Shakti" (the feminine principle) with "Shiva" (the masculine principle). Once this union is formed it lasts forever.
By achieving this level of consciousness - one goes beyond the state of choosing unconsciously and becomes conscious of the always unchanging eternal present - the Mystery Monitor within - and the connection with all through our personal, Divine Fragment.
Here we are connected with the level of Being which contains all non-manifest forms and characteristics. From here we began our journey into life and to this place we will return at the end of our human personality development. The seventh chakra connects us to our spiritual nature and if we allow it's unfolding, it becomes integrated into our physical life and guides us according to God's Will. We are living God's Will in our life.
The seventh chakra is the source and center - the starting point for the manifestation of all other chakra energies. It is the entry point for the human life-force which pours endlessly into the human energy system from God. This is the force that nourishes and heals the body, mind and spirit. It distributes itself throughout the physical body and the lower six chakras - connecting the entire system at the seventh chakra. It is always present in our physical vehicles - but it must wait patiently for us to do the work of becoming fully conscious.
The purpose of opening and aligning the seventh chakra is to seek direct communion with Spirit. It is where perfection exists in our imperfect state.
The seventh chakra contains the energy that generates devotion, inspired and prophetic thoughts, transcendent ideas, and mystical connection. This is where the counter effects of retrogressive evolution caused by the Lucifer Rebellion, can occur and be re-balanced individual by individual.
In the education of a human soul, true soul advancement takes place through the channeling of divine thought-forms which move an individual soul beyond the consiousness of limitation of being earthbound. The seventh chakra is where we can truly co-create with God and transcend into the promise of a new life while still in the flesh.
The seventh chakra represents a sense of oneness with all creation; transcendence; higher mind. It unites 6th chakra mind, clarity; 5th chakra will; 4th chakra love; 3rd chakra self power; 2nd chakra relationship with others; and 1st chakra tribe.
When the seventh chakra unfolds and opens, any blockages remaining in the other six dissolve and their energies begin to vibrate at their highest possible frequencies. Each chakra then works as a mirror of the Divine Being at it's own particular level, and expresses the highest potential it is capable of. As soon as the crown chakra is completely awakened, it's task of absorbing cosmic energies comes to an end and it begins to radiate energy on it's own accord.
The Harmonious Functioning of the Seventh Chakra (Open)
There are no blockages in the seventh chakra. It can only be developed. Any blockages to reaching seventh stage enlightenment, occur in the other six centers.
Consciousness becomes calm and open and is expressed as communion with the higher self.
The moments of enlightenment leading up to union occur with more frequency until they become a permanent reality. One feels as if they are awakening from a dream. Thoughts of separation from the One and All and from other people, recede. One feels like an empty vessel in which the Divine pours unconditional love without end. This love is then poured into the world via the individual and unique personality and physical vehicle. One translates activation from the Divine into action in one's world.
One begins to realize that matter is nothing but form and thought centered in Divine Consciousness is true reality. All other thought is non-real - only a worldly illusion.
During the years in which one is actively working to open the crown chakra, a whole new depth and insight into wholeness can be developed and experienced directly.
There is a constant feeling of at-one-ment with the Divine Spark that indwells us.
It's from this site:
http://www.lightandlife.com/new/hea...-Chakra7.htm
Looks like that could answer your question. And yes, it looks like you are right on the edge of something BIG... or NOTHING AT ALL, depending on how Zen/ Advaita you want to be about your angle on Freedom .
Christi. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2007 : 12:57:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Kirtanman,
Looks like that could answer your question. And yes, it looks like you are right on the edge of something BIG... or NOTHING AT ALL, depending on how Zen/ Advaita you want to be about your angle on Freedom.
Christi.
Hi Christi,
Thanks very much - and timely answer (my crown has just started "kicking in" again, big time! Tingly sensations, a bit of heat - but mostly a major increase in daily ecstasy -- I was experiencing orders-of-magnitude increased levels of ecstatic conductivity leading to savikalpa samadhi, just sitting around the house, this evening!
In my sadhana (and I am truly ultra-grateful for this) samadhi is not uncommon - it is essentially experienced every sitting-practices sessions .... the "spontaneous onset" was the unusual part.
Ditto the significantly greater ecstasy - and I wasn't doing anything to "spur it on" -- except breathe!
And, in all seriousness: I have no idea how "close" I might be to major realization - but incrementally increasing sense of greater awareness (tangible awareness ... not "Hm, I think this may be different" - it's different!!) of Oneness ... I was (literally) realizing oneness with cigarette butts (and everything else in my perceptual field, at the time .... the oneness just seemed, and felt .... self-evident.)
It really is like an inside-out feeling change.
It's wild (and awesome!)
And I'll keep everyone (literally) posted, of course!
Other sypmtoms include lot of Spontaneous Tongue Kriyas (that's either a kundalini symptom, or a great band name ....!  ) - my tongue will often flop around like a trout with a bad case of hemorrhoids - which I can control as needed (i.e. "in public" ), but otherwise ... I just let it dance; it obviously wants to ... for the most part, it flicks around the 1st/2nd chakra energy points near the lips and gums, and then flies back into full kechari for a moment or two ... kinda cool, and very interesting!
And I'm beginning to understand that Khechari may not be exactly as important as it is emphasized in this forum.
It appears, rather, that Khechari may be infinitely more important - than can accurately be conveyed in words ... though, to their credit, the Hatha Yoga Pradapikas at least try:
(54) There is only one germ of evolution, and that is 0m; there is only one mudra: khecari; only one duty: to become independent from everything; and only one spiritual state [avastha]: deep meditation [mano-mani].
http://www.yoga-age.com/pradipika/part3.html
The information on that pages conveys how the ancients (of many cultures) did their best to communicate the importance of Khechari Mudra (please note: I'm using properly transliterated Sanskrit spelling of the term, for easier / better Googling).
I've been studying a bit more Kabbalah, lately - and it's essentially Yoga in mystical Jewish clothing. The story of Moses in an illustration (once we understand that the Pharaoh is the ego, Egypt is the body, the Red Sea are the waters/etheric plane (emotional lives) which the leading subtle energy traversing the spine ... can take us beyond.
In Kabbalah, they teach that the seas didn't part right away ... but the waters rose to the noses of the Israelites - and when they drew (what they thought was their final) breath - air overcame water, as it always does in yoga.
Then Moses climbed the mountain (spine) and spoke with the burning bush (the brilliant, bush-like vision which many of us experience when certain aspects of kundalini ignite). Moses came back down "transfigured" alright ... but not by a deity outside himself ... simply by his own yogically evolved neurophysiology.
http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache...k&cd=4&gl=us
(Kind of a long, funky link ... but it should still work, hopefully - good "Moses as Yogi" and "Ancient Kabbalists Knew a Thing or Two About Yoga" info.
And as far as how advaitically or not I'm experiencing all of this -- I think a lot of that discussion is tough, due to semantics.
Advaitists will say "no where to go, and nothing to do" -- and they mean "to be in enlightenment", and so they're right.
However, most sadhakas (and Adyashanti acknowledged this repeatedly, as mentioned in some of my other posts) feel that practices can help you get there. They just don't have anything to do with being there.
Enlightened advaitists (like Adya) are just being very, very literal ... the airplane that flew you to Brazil, doesn't have anything to do with being in Brazil.
True ... and possibly an important point, lest people start becoming convinced that practices x, y and j are the holy practices which result in enlightenment, etc. etc.
In my own experience with both advaita and yoga, AYP seems to be like a nice, new comfortable lear jet ... it may not be the only way to get to Brazil, and it may have nothing to to with being in Brazil ... but of all the vehicles which might get me there ... this little lear jet is not bad at all!
And to clarify - Advaitists don't advocate denial of experience, unless they deeply misunderstand - so a major awakening wouldn't be experienced as Nothing ... that comes later when "All as One" is realized even more deeply as "All as Nothing".
Again, semantics has a lot to do with it Advaitists say that all except Brahman (the Absolute) is illusory, because all but Brahman is transitory, and ultimately dissolves along with space-time ... but we don't (bodies do, true self doesn't) - because we are as unborn / undying as any instance of pure consciousness can be.
I find the word "apparent" helps a lot. I may understand that philosophical, the material universe is one, but if there's an apparent bus bearing down on me, I'll probably move. "Unreal" doesn't mean the bus is a figment of imagination - it means that it's nature and structure - its namarupa - its name and form - is transient, and therefore illusory.
It's like with computer systems .... we're discussing whether or not desktop icons are real, and the sages are telling us the the applications (software) layer is yet more real, and the Operating System level, more real than that ... and in the ultimate, causal plane ... we can do just a little ... and effect a lot, on the physical plane .... almost everything here is pure effect (including you and me - Ahamkara - ego, if often thought to be the projector ... when it it actually part of the projection.)
I'm really not a philosophy / concepts guy ... I'm a "what describes the way things are, most accurately and clearly" - and for me, advaita and other non-dual models do this very well.
Essentially debating (and I'm not referring to you, but to any of is) isn't going to help our sadhana - I recommened simply remaining open to a given teacher and his teachings, and see if they resonate with you.
Personally, I would never formally describe myself as an Advaitin, any more than I would call myself a Tantrika, or whatever ... those label are either restrictive, or a waste of air, I find.
Love thy neighbor as thyself, doing sitting practices twice a day - and before long, you won't have to ask or tell anything - except to those you naturally attract to you, to teach, and to learn with together.
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman |
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glagbo
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2007 : 03:28:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
Essentially debating ... isn't going to help our sadhana - I recommended simply remaining open to a given teacher and his teachings, and see if they resonate with you. ...
Love thy neighbor as thyself, doing sitting practices twice a day - ...
Hi Kirtanman:
Great reminder!
With openness comes the receptivity to receiving from all. Then we learn and receive much. Even from the gentle swaying of a tree, the care-free drifting of the puffs of clouds over the deep blue beyond, the silent echo of our footsteps into the bosom of the earth, as we forge on to our own unknowing.
Welcome to Georgia.
BRV.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2007 : 05:09:50 AM
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Hi Kirtanman,
Thanks for another wonderful post.
quote:
In my sadhana (and I am truly ultra-grateful for this) samadhi is not uncommon - it is essentially experienced every sitting-practices sessions .... the "spontaneous onset" was the unusual part.
Yes, that seems to be the great thing about the crown... as it opens and we merge into it, we enter samadhi spontaneously wherever we are.
quote:
Ditto the significantly greater ecstasy - and I wasn't doing anything to "spur it on" -- except breathe!
I get this too. The breath carries prana (maybe it is mostly prana?) so when the system is open and ecstatic, simply breathing into it will increase the ecstacsy many times.
quote:
And I'm beginning to understand that Khechari may not be exactly as important as it is emphasized in this forum.
It appears, rather, that Khechari may be infinitely more important - than can accurately be conveyed in words ... though, to their credit, the Hatha Yoga Pradapikas at least try:
(54) There is only one germ of evolution, and that is 0m; there is only one mudra: khecari; only one duty: to become independent from everything; and only one spiritual state [avastha]: deep meditation [mano-mani].
That's interesting. I don't practice kechari mudra, and yet our expriences in many ways, in terms of AYP practice seem to be very similar.
quote:
I've been studying a bit more Kabbalah, lately - and it's essentially Yoga in mystical Jewish clothing.
Maybe Yoga is Kabala in mystical Indian clothing? Kabala certainly seems to have certain depths that yoga does not have, and vise-versa. It is definately worth a look in terms of understanding the whole picture. As is Sufism.
quote:
Advaitists will say "no where to go, and nothing to do" -- and they mean "to be in enlightenment", and so they're right.
That's what I meant by "whichever angle we take on it". As I see it, Advaita and Dvaita are really just two different angles on the same thing. Not so different really, just viewpoints.
quote:
And as far as how advaitically or not I'm experiencing all of this -- I think a lot of that discussion is tough, due to semantics.
Semantics do make discussion about Advaita difficult. But it is still really beautifull, and hopefully useful. Personally I find that the more my crown opens, the more of it makes sense, and the more I can see that everyone is right (each of us coming from our own perspective).
quote:
And to clarify - Advaitists don't advocate denial of experience, unless they deeply misunderstand - so a major awakening wouldn't be experienced as Nothing ... that comes later when "All as One" is realized even more deeply as "All as Nothing".
And then later still as "All as nothing and everything, eternally flowing into and out of Being".
quote:
Essentially debating (and I'm not referring to you, but to any of is) isn't going to help our sadhana - I recommened simply remaining open to a given teacher and his teachings, and see if they resonate with you.
Well, I don't know if I agree. I find a great deal can be gained by discussion and debate. It helps us to clear up areas where our knowledge is cloudy, or simply mistaken. Another great advantage is that sometimes we get our buttons pushed . Certainly not a bad thing. Adyashanti I believe said that having all his buttons pushed was a major aspect of his awakening. All those buttons have to go! 
But more importantly, I am finding that contemplating the advaita teachings (and the discussions on this forum have helped me imensely with that) is becoming one door on entering samadhi in daily life. Bringing my attention to the crown as it opens is the other door.
quote:
Love thy neighbor as thyself, doing sitting practices twice a day - and before long, you won't have to ask or tell anything - except to those you naturally attract to you, to teach, and to learn with together.
Sounds beautiful!
Love and Light
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Apr 10 2007 10:01:23 AM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2007 : 11:20:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Kirtanman,
Thanks for another wonderful post.
You're very welcome; thanks for the kind words!
quote:
And I'm beginning to understand that Khechari may not be exactly as important as it is emphasized in this forum.
It appears, rather, that Khechari may be infinitely more important - than can accurately be conveyed in words ... though, to their credit, the Hatha Yoga Pradapikas at least try:
(54) There is only one germ of evolution, and that is 0m; there is only one mudra: khecari; only one duty: to become independent from everything; and only one spiritual state [avastha]: deep meditation [mano-mani].
That's interesting. I don't practice kechari mudra, and yet our expriences in many ways, in terms of AYP practice seem to be very similar.
Sounds that way, I agree.
My guess is: we've both apparently had similar success in cultivating ecstatic conductivity, and opening applicable channels, purifying our systems overall, etc. --- though we should both probably be careful not to presume too much similarity (simply because we don't know, and there's likely a whole lotta individuality to each of our sadhana / experience, as well).
I do agree, though, that we seem to have quite a bit of similarity, per several posts we've each written / read, where the similarities are evident.
Once I "attained khechari" in AYP terms (Stage 2), I did notice a linear (and very powerful) increase in both ecstatic conductivity and inner silence - though I had a pretty good "running start" with both.
I'm still a very, very early stage "Khecharin" though -- so time and practice will tell.
Personally, I see it kind of like:
Yogic literature claims "A" is true ... "check" (I've experienced "A") ... Yogic literature claims "B" is true ... "check" (I've experienced "B") ... Yogic literature claims "C" is true ... "check" (I've experienced "C") ... {so on and so forth, ipso facto, yadda-yadda} ...
... Yogic literature claims "H" is true ... "check" (I've experienced "H") ...
So mayyyybe (just maybe), by the time I get to (say) ... "K" (for "Khechari Mudra, Ultimate Freakin' Importance Thereof") ...
I will find that the aforementioned claims made by our good buddies, the rishi-editors of the Hatha Yoga Pradapika, not to mention a certain modern teacher of similar information (let's call him .... "Yogani" ... ) ... concerning Khechari (Vedic Sanskrit for "sticking your tongue up your nose from the inside" ) Mudra ... are also true.
So, seriously - it's a fairly strong matter of literal faith for me ... but, also ... the experiment literally continues.
My hypothesis / guess is that the Hatha Yoga Pradapika quote will prove to be essentially accurate, because (in my relatively limited experience ... compared to, say ... Patanjali, or Vyasa, or Shankaracharya, etc.) - yogic literature doesn't seem to emphasize anything *that* strongly, without having a fairly powerful reason behind it ... even if "said reason" is a symbol / pointer.
My guess as to the reason is:
Yogic practices initiate and facilitate what essentially amounts to a second puberty ... literal, neurophysiological changes in the body-mind system, which allow it to act as a more powerful receiver than we ever realized is possible.
We're born thinking that not only can we only pick up "AM-band radio" ... we think-feel / are conditioned that we're not only a single AM-band radiostation ("All KTMN - all the time! 98.6 on my bio-dial!" - but that we're also the radio receiver box-unit thingy, to boot!
"What's that, doctor? My battery is going?? Nooooo!!! Please - isn't there anything you can do?! Dammit! I knew I shouldnt've left my 'rewind' button pressed down for the last four decades!"
Then the battery dies, and all the other radios gather 'round and cry, and sing, and stick the broken radio-guy or radio-gal in a hole in the ground, or burn it ... and then go emotionally all wiggy on each other, because this reinforces their belief that we're both the station and the box-unit thingy ... and so it goes ....
And the "radio" who "died" is going, "Hey, check it out ... I'm FM-band now ... hey, can't anyone hear me??"
And some old yogi or kabbalist or whatever says, "Can I hear you? Oy! My dear departed rabbi-guru dude could hear you, and he's Satellite Radio, now, or is that Internet Radio ... whatever ... pipe down, and relax ... you'll be re-broadcast in about ... 48 days or so ...!"
And so it goes, until we can perceive ("be the receiver for the broacasts from") AM and FM, Satellite and Internet ... until we get it ... I'm not any of those things ... I'm the signal ... the amplitude and modulation ... no, wait ... I mean ... the 1s and the 0s, and the ... electricity ....
... but the 1 is just a pulse of the electricity ... and the 0 is just the relative absence thereof .... so all there is, is the electricity ... and the space-void infiniternity in which it occurs ...
And all the broadcast bands are just more subtle ... or more coarse ... means to ... communicate ....
{And yes, my oh-so-entertaining analogy breaks down, in the sense that to carry the analogy ... AM-band and its radio sets, and FM-band and its radio sets, and Satellite band with its ... type of receivers ... and Internet radio with its ... network diagram ... idea-ish almost-thoughts .... would each be on their own "plane" of consciousness / broadcast.
As In: Physical bodies are physical-plane receiving units, astral bodies are astral-plane receiving units, and so on ...
Yoga enables us to become a ..... stereo system ... with .... Windows Media Center ..... (Quick ... somebody ... stop me before I analogize again ....! )
(Hey, if Elron Hubbard can come up with Scientology, why can't I come up with ....... Radiology ....!)
{So Ducking}
quote:
I've been studying a bit more Kabbalah, lately - and it's essentially Yoga in mystical Jewish clothing.
Maybe Yoga is Kabala in mystical Indian clothing? Kabala certainly seems to have certain depths that yoga does not have, and vise-versa. It is definately worth a look in terms of understanding the whole picture. As is Sufism.
Partially agreed ... I'd say it's more like:
Kabbalah is Jewish Yoga.
And not meaning to disagree - just going by my own partial awareness of the history / timing and geography involved.
There seems to be a general westward flow, emanating out of India - and there's a lot of very clear "sub-setting" going on ... Hebrew (and its alphabet <-- oh-so literally ... that English word comes from "Alef" & "Bet" ... the first two letters of the Hebrew ... writing system) are clearly a subset of Sanskrit and Devanagari (some did a study ... "Google is our friend" if anyone is interested ... that the Hebrew Alphabet is simply Devanagari with some of the doohickeys chopped off, and the top bar thingy erased).
(Did I ever tell you I'm a highly trained linguist? Good. Because I'm certainly not. )
Hans Jenny did those cryo-whatcha-callit ... cryogenics experiments, wherein (among other things, namely jaggedy, coarse noises make jaggedy, coarse patterns in metal shavings, and sweet, saccharin sounds make sweet, saccharin patterns in metal shavings) it was discovered that when the letters of Sanskrit are spoken aloud ...
... that the metal shavings form the letters in Devanagari.
And that when the letters of the Hebrew language are spoken aloud ...
... that the metal shavings form the letters in Hebrew.
And, let's see, the other languages where this happens ....
... don't exist.
Those were the only two.
Yes, really.
Remember Abraham and Sarah, in the Old Testament?
Or rather, (a)Brahma(m) and Sara(swati)?
HmmmMMMMmmMMMMmmmmm ....
And far be it from me, though - to say that Kabbalah is derivative (I'm emphatically *not* saying that ... very seriously) - just that the cultural, linguistic, historical (who did what, first) and geo-directional flow was more "India > Middle East", than "Middle East > India".
However, *all* the esoteric wisdom traditions seem to offer highly accurate and complete mystical-esoteric maps ... whether we're talking about Yoga / Sanatana Dharma, Kabbalah / Judaism, Sufism / Islam, Gnostic-Mystical Christianity / Christianity, Western Mysticism / Other Western Spiritual Systems, Quantum Physics / Physics, or whatever.
There's even a commensurate movement in psychology and neuroscience, per the work of folks like Hameroff (Stuart), Penrose (Roger), Pert (Candace), Wolinksy (Stephen) & Lipton (Bruce), et. al.
Ultimately, it's a matter of what will get us "there" (aka Here ... ) - and all the major esoteric and mystical traditions, ranging from Yoga and Kabbalah, to Sufism, Esoteric Christianity, Taoism and Tantric traditions (both Sanatana Dharma and Buddhism based) - have certainly proven their worth ... as well as their potential pitfalls.
It seems to be mostly a matter of how bad we want it (per Krishna's comment to Arjuna when they were riding around in that chariot that only "one in a thousand" would ultimately make it "unto Me" (Lord Krishna, aka Reality) -- Bhakti / Earnestness / Grace seems to be the great dividing / deciding factor (fuel) ...
... with wisdom, awareness (Jnana / Gnosticism) being the steering wheel-slash-map reading ...
... and practices ... being the accelerator-stepping par excellence ....
All three components (devotion, wisdom, action) seem to be necessary ... and all mystical systems seem to supply opportunity therefore, in sufficient quantity ... as long as we bring those things, in sufficient quantity, as well ...
quote:
Advaitists (Advaitins? Advaitinistas? ) will say "no where to go, and nothing to do" -- and they mean "to be in enlightenment", and so they're right.
That's what I meant by "whichever angle we take on it". As I see it, Advaita and Dvaita are really just two different angles on the same thing. Not so different really, just viewpoints.
quote:
And as far as how advaitically or not I'm experiencing all of this -- I think a lot of that discussion is tough, due to semantics.
Semantics do make discussion about Advaita difficult. But it is still really beautiful, and hopefully useful. Personally I find that the more my crown opens, the more of it makes sense, and the more I can see that everyone is right (each of us coming from our own perspective).
quote:
And to clarify - Advaitists don't advocate denial of experience, unless they deeply misunderstand - so a major awakening wouldn't be experienced as Nothing ... that comes later when "All as One" is realized even more deeply as "All as Nothing".
And then later still as "All as nothing and everything, eternally flowing into and out of Being".
quote:
Essentially debating (and I'm not referring to you, but to any of is) isn't going to help our sadhana - I recommend simply remaining open to a given teacher and his teachings, and see if they resonate with you.
Well, I don't know if I agree. I find a great deal can be gained by discussion and debate. It helps us to clear up areas where our knowledge is cloudy, or simply mistaken. Another great advantage is that sometimes we get our buttons pushed . Certainly not a bad thing. Adyashanti I believe said that having all his buttons pushed was a major aspect of his awakening. All those buttons have to go!
But more importantly, I am finding that contemplating the advaita teachings (and the discussions on this forum have helped me imensely with that) is becoming one door on entering samadhi in daily life. Bringing my attention to the crown as it opens is the other door.
I don't disagree (and not back-peddling ... it's just another semantics thing ... )--- discussion can be quite good, and clarifying ... I was referring more to "down in the dirt" egoic argu-bating -- which I don't think too many of us engage in ...
... but there's kind of a "second-tier" (not arguing exactly, but discussions that unproductively devolve to a level where sitting and breathing presently would likely do more good ...) *IF* ya know what I mean ...
As In:
Good, productive discussion can be useful .... as can (but of course! ) seemingly endless but hopefully amusing and/or somewhat informative mega-posts ....) ---
But there's a "talk, talk, talk" and "me, right - you, wrong" dynamic that has been popping up here and there at the Forum, that I think I was feeling extra-sensitive to, on the day I wrote that ("less talk, more practice") sentiment.
I don't think too many of "us regulars" have gone there -- not too much, at least ...
... but I thought the "talk is secondary to practice" sentiment was worth mentioning - at least then.
However - again - productive, loving aware dialog -- can be a key and useful part of the Jnana-Gnostic (aka Steering ) portion of (each of) our sadhana, in my opinion (and experience; I find value in it, too - fer shure! )
quote:
Love thy neighbor as thyself, doing sitting practices twice a day - and before long, you won't have to ask or tell anything - except to those you naturally attract to you, to teach, and to learn with together.
Sounds beautiful!
Thanks!
Yeah ... that was one of those "Whoa, where'd that come from??" things ....
It's cool when then happens (not in an "I did that" sense, but in a "Life did that" sense! )
And ....
... I am officially existential toast. Not to mention hungry.
I would say "peace out", but it's more like ....
Peace In,
Kirtanman
Love and Light
Christi
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Edited by - Kirtanman on Apr 16 2007 12:09:14 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2007 : 04:23:57 AM
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Hi Kirtanman,
Something funny seems to be happening with the quote facility, so it looks like I wrote some of your last post, in several places... maybe you could edit it and reset the quote markups?
Christi |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2007 : 11:45:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Kirtanman,
Something funny seems to be happening with the quote facility, so it looks like I wrote some of your last post, in several places... maybe you could edit it and reset the quote markups?
Christi
More like *my" quote facility ... but thanks for your diplomacy ....
"On it".
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
PS -- Just did it ... though am bone-tired, so no promises ... (as to quality of quote-facility). I think "who said what" is cleared up, but not certain (I actually came across a couple of sentences, where I wasn't sure if they were mine or yours ... kinda cool, in a way ... ) |
Edited by - Kirtanman on Apr 16 2007 12:12:07 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2007 : 04:09:12 AM
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Hi Kirtanman,
Thanks for clearing that up.
quote:
More like *my" quote facility ... but thanks for your diplomacy ....
"On it".
It's always good to blame the computer when you can... that's the best thing about computers
quote:
I actually came across a couple of sentences, where I wasn't sure if they were mine or yours ... kinda cool, in a way ...
Hey, the same thing happened to me! You know what they say about one universal mind... ? Or was it one universal heart? I never did pay much attention at school.
quote:
Partially agreed ... I'd say it's more like:
Kabbalah is Jewish Yoga.
And not meaning to disagree - just going by my own partial awareness of the history / timing and geography involved.
There seems to be a general westward flow, emanating out of India - and there's a lot of very clear "sub-setting" going on ...
From my own incredibly partial awareness of these things, I'm not so sure. Aparently the Arians entered India thousands of years ago from the West, driving the original Dravidians east and south. The Aryans (meaning Noble ones) brought the Sanskrit language with them. Originally they settled around the Indus valley area. The sanskrit language obviously has it's roots in mysticism (it's basically just a spiritual language from start to finish) as ancient Hebrew is. So I don't think in terms of Mysticism spreading from ancient India outwards, but rather entering India from a much older tradition based around the middle east. So who came before the Aryans in terms of civilizations, that have an obvious incredible mystical knowledge, and could have influenced the later Aryans? I don't know. But I have heard that there were incredible civilizations around the middle east/ northern Africa area even before the Egyptian empire. These civilizations apparently sprang up overnight with advanced written languages, and advanced knowledge of astrology and astronomy just as the Aryans had. We have archeological evidence of the existence of these civilizations and evidence of their advanced knowledge.
Before that we have to rely on channeled information... Atlantis? ... Lemuria? As a true investigative scientist, I don't rule any possibilities out. 
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Apr 24 2007 07:49:19 AM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2007 : 10:55:29 PM
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quote:
Partially agreed ... I'd say it's more like:
Kabbalah is Jewish Yoga.
And not meaning to disagree - just going by my own partial awareness of the history / timing and geography involved.
There seems to be a general westward flow, emanating out of India - and there's a lot of very clear "sub-setting" going on ...
quote:
From my own incredibly partial awareness of these things, I'm not so sure. Aparently the Arians entered India thousands of years ago from the West, driving the original Dravidians east and south. The Aryans (meaning Noble ones) brought the Sanskrit language with them. Originally they settled around the Indus valley area. The sanskrit language obviously has it's roots in mysticism (it's basically just a spiritual language from start to finish) as ancient Hebrew is. So I don't think in terms of Mysticism spreading from ancient India outwards, but rather entering India from a much older tradition based around the middle east. So who came before the Aryans in terms of civilizations, that have an obvious incredible mystical knowledge, and could have influenced the later Aryans? I don't know. But I have heard that there were incredible civilizations around the middle east/ northern Africa area even before the Egyptian empire. These civilizations apparently sprang up overnight with advanced written languages, and advanced knowledge of astrology and astronomy just as the Aryans had. We have archeological evidence of the existence of these civilizations and evidence of their advanced knowledge.
Before that we have to rely on channeled information... Atlantis? ... Lemuria? As a true investigative scientist, I don't rule any possibilities out.
Christi
Hey Christi,
Just FYI, the whole "Aryan Invasion Slander" thing has recently been cleared up, thanks to a balanced application of new technology, and well-applied critical thanking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY4Q2xx7BTc
I stand by yoga>kabbalah hypothesis - but like you, am open to the truth, whatever it may be. And, quite honestly, I don't have any egoic ties to yoga coming first, historically ... makes no difference to me. It just seems to me that that's the way it is, based on my own review of all available info. Regardless, I *highly* recommend viewing the video at the link given above; it helps to shed some significant light on the culture which gave us the science of yoga.
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
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shivakm
USA
41 Posts |
Posted - May 23 2007 : 12:20:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
Just FYI, the whole "Aryan Invasion Slander" thing has recently been cleared up, thanks to a balanced application of new technology, and well-applied critical thanking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY4Q2xx7BTc
Thanks for that link. The video was really interesting to watch.
Shiva. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2007 : 08:37:33 AM
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Hi Kirtanman,
Thanks for the video link. It is very interesting. I should mention though that although many claims were made in the video to scientific proof, I saw very little evidence to actually back up the claims they were making. Maybe they didn't have time to include all (or any) of the scientific evidence in the video.
But still, it would be interesting to know what really happened... maybe we'll have to wait for an expert on ancient civilization and the migration of mystical knowledge to join the forum... or maybe there is already one among us...?
What was it again? oh yea... Seek first the kingdom of heaven within...
Christi
p.s Thanks for all your other amazing video links, some of them really blew me away (literally  ) |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2009 : 08:29:33 AM
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Kirtanman,
This post you made is quite old now. I wondered how things were for you now?
My head feels like it is inside a toaster! and it wants to get out like one side of the brain is one slice of toast and the other side is the other slice of toast! I don't believe putting attention anywhere near the head region like with spinal breathing will help at all.
I want to know what all the grounding exercises are. Anyone? |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2009 : 6:44:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
Kirtanman,
This post you made is quite old now. I wondered how things were for you now?
My head feels like it is inside a toaster! and it wants to get out like one side of the brain is one slice of toast and the other side is the other slice of toast! I don't believe putting attention anywhere near the head region like with spinal breathing will help at all.
I want to know what all the grounding exercises are. Anyone?
Hi Gumpi,
All is wonderful, now.
I started this thread a *long* time ago, in "AYP Years" -- and never really had much more in the way of uncomfortable crown symptoms.
I still get crown activity from time to time, but after a couple of experiences of increased spaciousness in the head, especially at the crown and top of head -- symptoms which felt troublesome previously, felt either good, or at least neutral.
It truly felt like the top of my head finally opened up -- though I don't want to say this was "crown opening", mostly because I don't like to label things.
However, the sense of spaciousness was combined with a sense of deeply increased awareness ... though, like most things yogic, it took a while to kind of integrate and balance out .... but integrate and balance, it did.
I've actually had more crown/top of head activity in the last week, than I've had in a *long* time (<- timely inquiry, Gumpi! ) ... but it's very much "all good".
Until the major sense of openness (end of 2007 or so), and not until after closely monitoring the integration with careful self-pacing (I remained *very* careful with "crown stuff" ... though after the openness/opening - there was a much clearer intuitive sense of how much in the way of head/crown related practices was safe/fine ... and when to back off).
As of the end of 2008 or so, I've been letting the energy go/flow as it seems to "want to" ... and it all moves at much higher levels ... meaning: more of it, seemingly ... to-from above top of end, and throughout the overall system (including, at times, entire field of awareness) --- though these words may make it sound more "dramatic" than it actually feels.
It doesn't feel dramatic in the least; it feels natural, actually.
And these days, I enjoy the peace, openness and awareness more than I notice was the specific energy is doing.
Please note, though: it didn't take decades for this to happen ... but it did take a handful of years ... and during that period, I managed crown practices *very* conservatively. The couple of times I didn't, the results were *not* comfortable, and there was no particular gain.
It sounds like your intuition is "spot on" re: a bit of self-pacing, via not directing any energy to your head, for a bit.
And I'm not entirely sure how applicable grounding is ... I associate the need for grounding more with transcendent/high feeling/state, as opposed to heat/energy alone ... though ultimately the central nervous system seems to function via a polar/polarity dynamic, with root and crown being the opposite poles .... so, hypotheoretically .. redirecting energy via grounding should only help (can't hurt).
The only grounding I'm familiar with is to do "in body" stuff ... go for a walk, do some housework/yardwork, light to moderate exercise, etc.
Hopes this helps!
Kirtanman |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2009 : 01:21:03 AM
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Sri Dude, I am re-opening your crown thread (pun fully intended ).
Although my question is for anyone who cares to comment.
Once the crown starts to open, about how long does the opening process take? I'm guessing it's an individual thing, but is there a common timeframe that can be reasonably anticipated?
I've been having crown activity for maybe 8-9 months. Except for in the very beginning, it's been rather smooth. Feeling energy in the crown is a daily experience now, but I don't feel that the crown is open, per se.
I practice "Me Samyama"** before bed, but no direct crown practices otherwise.
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
With Love
cosmic
**Cosmic Samyama |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2009 : 09:02:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by cosmic
Sri Dude, I am re-opening your crown thread (pun fully intended ).
Although my question is for anyone who cares to comment.
Once the crown starts to open, about how long does the opening process take? I'm guessing it's an individual thing, but is there a common timeframe that can be reasonably anticipated?
I've been having crown activity for maybe 8-9 months. Except for in the very beginning, it's been rather smooth. Feeling energy in the crown is a daily experience now, but I don't feel that the crown is open, per se.
I practice "Me Samyama"** before bed, but no direct crown practices otherwise.
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
With Love
cosmic
**Cosmic Samyama
Hi Cosmic,
I don't think there is anything like a completely open chakra. You may have an opening and think this is it... but more layers of blocks surface and are purified and opening continues. But yes, there is a point where the openings don't feel uncomfortable and maybe that is what you are asking here?
Also, every person is so different that if someone gives you a time frame, I would be very skeptical about anything and everything this person tells you.
This process is ongoing and never ending. After a certain degree of purification and opening the friction is less and hence the discomfort reduces. Also after a certain point the mind has a lot to do with the ease of opening. The more you let go and not expect, the easier and faster you open. But this is not something you can make happen. All you can do is continue with your practices and open, accept and allow.
There is a good reply from Kirtanman that may answer some of your questions.
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=6622#59275
Here is wishing you a smooth and splendid crown opening. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2009 : 3:31:27 PM
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Hi Cosmic,
I can’t tell you how long it will take for you to fully open your crown chakra, all I can do is tell you what has happened for me so far.
I first experienced sensations at the crown chakra about 5 years ago. There was a time, maybe around 4 to 2 years ago, when things could get pretty active around the crown and I had to be careful what I did in relation to the crown, self-pacing in relation to both crown practices and overall practices. These days I get a lot less in the way of symptoms at the crown. They are never painful, and always blissful. So I can enter a state of bliss at will by bringing my attention to the crown chakra, whether it is turned upwards and open or not. I imagine, if I really worked at it, I could overdo things at the crown still, but it would take some effort and I’d rather not try.
I started crown practices just over 4 years ago after many months of testing at the crown (see lesson 199) . I believe that the crown practices I have done have helped a lot in stabilizing the bliss states that I experience (at times) now. Gradually, as the crown is purified, the weird sensations of spinning/ crawling and opening upwards, expand into states of bliss. From there, the states of bliss expand into experiences of Oneness (Divine realization) which are even more blissful.
Here is a quote from Yogani about crown experiences:
"The best crown experiences are the ones that have gone to dissolution into pure bliss consciousness, without negative after-effects. This indicates body-wide purity. As with all practice, we know it is good if we feel good in regular daily activity."
And again:
"The crown is a sort of crossroad in all of this, one that takes a long time to purify completely, because to do so, everything else has to be purified, and that cannot be done overnight, no matter what has been promised. The good news is that all the purification we achieve in the sushumna (spinal nerve) and throughout the nervous system with our daily deep meditation, spinal breathing pranayama and other practices is crown opening by proxy. When everything is purified and opened, the crown is open too. In that sense all the practices we do are crown practices. We are just being cagey about it to avoid unnecessary mishaps."
Both from this post:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=1607#12295
All the best,
Christi
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2009 : 3:34:40 PM
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Hi there, Shanti
I appreciate your response. I found it (and the link) insightful.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
You may have an opening and think this is it... but more layers of blocks surface and are purified and opening continues. But yes, there is a point where the openings don't feel uncomfortable and maybe that is what you are asking here?
Okay, this sounds somewhat like what I'm experiencing. Every few months, there will be a peak of crown activity, where it feels like some dramatic opening is immanent. But then it calms down for a while, and the activity becomes more subtle (but still occurring). Then the cycle repeats.
It reminds me of a pot of boiling water that when it starts to boil over, someone turns the stove down and lets it simmer for a bit.
Then, I notice that both life and spiritual practice are much more stable (and pleasant) than they were before the peak. And on it goes. It feels like I'm constantly on the verge of something that keeps moving just out of reach. There's no suffering about it, it's just something I'm noticing. It's like the playful withholding that a lover would tease you with.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Here is wishing you a smooth and splendid crown opening.
Thank you so much!
I'll take your advice and allow it to happen without expectations. It's becoming easier to do that now...
With Love
cosmic |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2009 : 4:05:52 PM
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Hi Christi,
Thanks for sharing your experience and the links. I'll give them a thorough read tonight.
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
I started crown practices just over 4 years ago after many months of testing at the crown (see lesson 199) . I believe that the crown practices I have done have helped a lot in stabilizing the bliss states that I experience (at times) now. Gradually, as the crown is purified, the weird sensations of spinning/ crawling and opening upwards, expand into states of bliss. From there, the states of bliss expand into experiences of Oneness (Divine realization) which are even more blissful.
This sounds wonderful! I don't think I'm ready for full-on crown practices, but some mild crown testing is probably in order. Maybe once every other month since the crown activity started, I've allowed the last few breaths of SBP to go from root to crown. So far, no problems. But it's been a while since I've tested.
BTW, Cosmic Samyama has been stable for 6+ months. Your advice from earlier this year turned out to be good. CS has been a stabilizing influence, and has gently been stimulating the crown.
Thanks for your support! I'll check out the links...
Love
cosmic |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2009 : 4:38:47 PM
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Hi Cosmic,
quote:
This sounds wonderful! I don't think I'm ready for full-on crown practices, but some mild crown testing is probably in order. Maybe once every other month since the crown activity started, I've allowed the last few breaths of SBP to go from root to crown. So far, no problems. But it's been a while since I've tested.
Strictly speaking, switching from root-to-brow to root-to-crown for the last couple of breaths of SBP is not "testing at the crown", as per the main lessons. Basically the testing process involves resting the attention at the crown for a short time after meditation (or samyama) and before rest. It is all explained in lesson 199 but I just wanted to clarify that point. It is important because it is the continued root-to-brow connection which provides stability for anything you may choose to do at the crown, so you don't want to errode that in any way.
Glad my Cosmic Samyama advice worked out alright. It is one of my favorite practices, and the one I most often forget about.
All the best,
Christi |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2009 : 5:34:10 PM
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Thanks for clarifying that, Christi
I'll try resting my attention (briefly) at the crown before rest.
I wasn't planning to discard root-to-brow SBP in favor of root-to-crown SBP, but it's good to know this isn't the way to test the crown.
Peace & Love
cosmic |
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Kirtanman's a Hothead! (Crown Chakra Exp.)
