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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 15 2009 : 8:59:05 PM
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Okay guys, I am getting a little obsessed with all this stuff and I am starting to fantasize about forcing other people into practices so they all have kundalini awakenings and spiritual realizations! I am devising strategic plans on getting my whole family into this, and friends and other people I know! I already gave my mom the kundalini yoga dvd I had which caused me to find ayp (all I said is it will make her more healthy and have more energy, without telling her about what happens during a kundalini awakening), I will not leave my fiance alone about doing AYP, I am bugging my dad and my best friend everyday to start the I AM meditation and since my little sister will not try meditating I am thinking about tricking her into doing some chanting exercises! I know tricking them onto the spiritual path is not really the right way to go about it, but I know if I tell them too much detail they will not try it and I feel like they all need a spiritual kick in the butt to get out of all the crap they are into! (Well, the only one who knows all about the details is my fiance and he says he thinks it is too weird for him..) I know this would be the best thing that could ever happen to them and it hurts me to see them wasting their lives! Plus I am thinking, if they are not meant to have a spiritual awakening then it will not happen despite my efforts...
So what do you think? Do I need to chill or should I continue trying to save everybody like a psycho?
Another question: I have heard numerous accounts of someones kundalini affecting others. Does this happen to everybody you encounter? Does it ever cause the other person to have a permanent full blown kundalini rising? What about all the married people/all of you in relationships out there? Does your partner have a kundalini awakening because of yours?
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2009 : 9:10:05 PM
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You can only provide the tools.. like you are doing right now (wonderful!!).. they will use it when they are ready. Like they say, you can take a horse to the water but you cant make it drink.
Your kundalini will affect those who are ready for it. If they are in a place where they can be helped by your awakened kundalini, then they will. As you purify further and awaken you will help others around you awaken.
So the best you can do meditate and find the silence that is you, then let the silence spread and help others. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2009 : 11:00:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BellaMente
Okay guys, I am getting a little obsessed with all this stuff and I am starting to fantasize about forcing other people into practices so they all have kundalini awakenings and spiritual realizations! I am devising strategic plans on getting my whole family into this, and friends and other people I know!
You've seen BEWARE OF DOG signs, yes?
Somebody should make BEWARE OF EGO signs.
(And, please note: if there's a sense of reaction to those words .... that's the ego; I'm actually writing this response to the "real you" ... the part that's not the ego.)
And the main reason I'm writing this response .... indeed, the reason I *can* write this response ..... is, as I'm sure is true of many of us here:
"Been there, done that."
Egoic conditioning says: "I've found something of great benefit, and so, I need to make others enjoy this benefit, too --- I need to get them to see!"
This is an infallible plan, if suffering and not-being-listened-to are the objectives.
Presuming those are *not* the objectives, I would happily recommend both ceasing and desisting. But only completely.
And while many of my words above are kind of tongue-in-cheek, I'm very serious, for a few reasons:
*Attempted control ("getting" people to do whatever it is you feel they "should" do) *literally* retards your own kundalini awakening. Kundalini awakening is the expansion of consciousness; "getting" anyone to do anything (in the way you describe; evangelizing, pushing, promoting, forcing. etc.-ing) is the contraction of consciousness; it's the cloud-cover that *prevents* the sunlight from shining through, and blessing all.
*Ceasing and desisting, and thereby returning to the natural state of opening/allowing --- actually accomplishes what conditioned mind thinks only "forcing" can do. Counter-intuitive, yes ---- but *every* wisdom tradition emphasizes the truth of this approach: Let go, let God (and if theistic slogans aren't your thing --- "Let go, let Kundalini". ).
quote:
So what do you think? Do I need to chill or should I continue trying to save everybody like a psycho?
Er ..... "See Above".
quote:
Another question: I have heard numerous accounts of someones kundalini affecting others.
Don't believe everything you read.
Multiply this by approximately one hundred when the topic is kundalini.
That's not to say kundalini may or may not affect certain others at certain times ..... it's to say: don't believe everything you read.
quote:
Does this happen to everybody you encounter? Does it ever cause the other person to have a permanent full blown kundalini rising? What about all the married people/all of you in relationships out there? Does your partner have a kundalini awakening because of yours?
Openness is the determining factor.
If one is pushing, prodding, attempting to control ... anyone in the vicinity will probably shut down // throw up resistance; this is called "human nature"; no ego likes to be told what to do.
However, if the person experiencing kundalini awakening is as open and "allowing" as their level of consciousness allows them to be ... and the general trend is "ever more open" as kundalini awakening progresses, this can only have a positive effect on their environment, including all beings within it.
"Let your light so shine" as that famous yogi from the New Testament put it.
Obviously, degree of receptivity varies greatly.
This is a vary well-known dynamic among people who go to see various gurus and teachers -- whether for darshan/shaktipat in the yogic tradition, or a dharma talk in the Buddhist tradition, and so on.
One person may be blown away, have their world rocked, etc. etc.
Another may feel they wasted their time.
Degree of openness has everything to do with the result.
Light shines where light can shine through/into; light is blocked by clouds (thoughts/psychological resistance, etc.).
And so, if your genuine intention (as I would guess is the case) is to simply have whatever kundalini awakening you're experiencing be as beneficial to yourself, and to all those around you, as is possible, then:
*Relax
*Let Go
*Allow
I've seen households where only one person meditating helps greater light and peace be experienced by the entire household --- purely by that person's *practice* of meditating.
Selling/pushing (anything) - especially of a personal/spiritual/lifestyle nature usually causes the walls of resistance to be thrown up.
And so, practice daily, let your simple acceptance of each moment be your shining example ... and let you and everyone around you enjoy the process, naturally.
It takes most of us a LONG time to get that this is the way that works.
Not "a way" - the way - the only way.
I could give you at least a dozen examples of where simple practice/acceptance/ not pushing on the part of one or two people, have benefited groups of people.
I could give you at least a dozen examples of where pushing/selling caused people to shut down and resist.
I can't give you any of where pushing/attempted control turned out to be helpful, or "worked" .... I don't know of any.
Any time control is attempted, and appears to "work" (which is always fallacious, not to mention manipulative), the "shift" in the pushee is almost always temporary and/or insincere (you might "get them" to start practices .... but their own sense of being pushed might well be enough to get them *not* to continue).
It's (letting your light shine) the way of Power/Light vs. the way of Weakness/Darkness (pushing, forcing, attempting to control).
If Gandhi had tried to "force" the British to leave India ......... they'd still be there.
If Jesus had shouted and cried and stomped his feet, and said "You have to listen to me! Have to! Have to! Have to!" ..... no one would even recognize his name, now.
"Like that."
I hope this helps.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Edited by - Kirtanman on Oct 15 2009 11:06:33 PM |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2009 : 11:31:41 AM
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Inner peace for all of us is an individual journey. Most people do not respond well to pushing. Consider leading by example and over time those around you will notice.
Regards. |
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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2009 : 3:44:33 PM
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| Thank you all for your suggestions. I will make sure not to push anybody, but how do I know when I am pushing if I think I am only trying to make a suggestion? I am not attempting to control anybody, nor do I think my way is better than another way- I just feel that certain techniques can bring a lot of help to certain people in certain situations. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2009 : 3:47:54 PM
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Hi BelleMente....
My advice to you is to do what you are inclined to do, but not to attach to any outcomes of your efforts. If you feel inclined to "spread the good word of AYP/meditation" then do so....just don't expect anyone to listen or to change anything ....that's their choice not yours.
Love you, and love your desire to help others...
Love,
Carson |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2009 : 4:22:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BellaMente
Thank you all for your suggestions. I will make sure not to push anybody, but how do I know when I am pushing if I think I am only trying to make a suggestion? I am not attempting to control anybody, nor do I think my way is better than another way- I just feel that certain techniques can bring a lot of help to certain people in certain situations.
Just go with what feels right. You will soon learn to give people what they need when they need it. I don't think you are pushing at all. I think you have benefited from yoga a lot and you want everyone to experience this freedom... and what you are doing is perfect. But like Carson said, give it to them, but don't expect an outcome. Sometimes they will tuck it away and use it when they are ready for it, at times they may jump right in, at times they may not in this lifetime. Nothing is ever wasted. So what you are doing is perfect, keep telling them about the wonderful tools available, just don't have any expectations of when or how they should use the tools you are providing them with, that way you are not pushing them. |
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Suryakant
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2009 : 5:43:32 PM
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| As one silently tends one's inner spiritual garden, then, as Ramakrishna so blissfully put it, "When the flower blooms, the bees come uninvited." |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2009 : 11:33:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BellaMente
Thank you all for your suggestions. I will make sure not to push anybody, but how do I know when I am pushing if I think I am only trying to make a suggestion? I am not attempting to control anybody, nor do I think my way is better than another way- I just feel that certain techniques can bring a lot of help to certain people in certain situations.
Hi Bellamente,
The tone of my last response was "guided" by your first post .... and it sounds like you had a bit of a feel for *mayyyybe* being just a *little* bit over the top with your "kundalini-thusiasm".
I'm sure you know the adage "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
"Pushing", or "controlling" or "forcing" are something that pretty much no one likes ... and so, you probably know what it feels like to be on the "receiving" end of that type of behavior, as well as anyone.
And, it's of course understandable that you want to share something you're excited about ... and that's not a bad thing at all .... provided the people you're sharing it with are generally interested (friends and family members being interested in what's going on with you, in general) or specifically interested (people you know, or meet, in whatever way who share an interest in kundalini, meditation, consciousness, etc.)
One of the reasons I responded a bit "strongly"/emphatically is that I used to "resemble your remarks" so strongly.
I don't know if you've picked up on this, but I tend toward a bit of natural exuberance, and at times enthusiasm.
I still tended a bit toward the "this'll change your life!!" mind-set (literally) when I first discovered meditation//spirituality, +/- a decade ago, now.
I also had a bit of the "really wanting" to "get other people to see".
The ego thinks of this as "genuine goodwill" ... when it's actually thinly disguised attempted control (usually).
A given ego-mind wants to sell something, and it often wants to sell that something *more* than it genuinely wants the other person or people to simply be at peace.
When this is seen, it's all pretty simple.
If you're talking about kundalini, or meditation, or making a recommendation, and your friend or family member says, "Wow, that sounds awesome! Please tell me more about it!!"
.... then, you're "good to go" ... though it's always a good idea to keep at least part of your attention on indication that the other party's interest level may be waning just slightly (i.e. eyes glazing over, glances at watches, suddenly remembered appointments, apparent loss of consciousness .... ... you get the idea, I'm sure .....)
If somebody says "Yeah, well, I'm glad those kundablinis are going well, but it's time for my bridge game ...." ..... best to let them have their bridge game, and serve the kundablinis another day.
Seriously: suggesting is fine. And there's a beautiful, respectful seamless operative term that I've found works pretty much without fail, and it involves just one word ..... and that word is:
ONCE.
As In ... Suggesting is fine: ONCE.
Suggesting *more* than ONCE begins to look suspiciously like *pushing*.
I used to suggest things a LOT more than ONCE.
Not ONCE did it ever yield the result my ego thought it wanted (the "selling" of whatever wonderful thing I was selling.)
And so ... let intuition, common sense and respect be your guide.
Those things have never failed, in my experiencing ..... especially the first one, which opens nicely, along with kundalini.
And remember: your lived example (which happens naturally) of the results of your daily practices are the biggest and best "sales tool" you can ever have ... not only in terms of what you say ... but in terms of the light of consciousness ultimately being irresistible to all who are open and receptive.
As you open (as "kundalini awakening" unfolds) ... receptive people *want* to be around you, and the right people for you to connect with, and learn from-teach/teach-learn from ("We are all students and teachers to each other" ~A Course In Miracles) ... show up, amazingly.
The way it really works is the way the mind is sure it can't work.
The mind feels it has to "tell and sell".
Reality attracts, allows, invites .... most times without saying a single word, specifically ... but simply by letting the light you are emanate through-from you ... and into the light we each and all are, now.
Connection is where all true communication starts and takes place.
Connection happens in environments of mutual trust, affinity, acceptance and respect.
Let connection happen/take place naturally .. and just go with the flow, as far as when/how to discuss anything, kundalini-related, or meditation-related, or whatever.
Life knows what it's doing.
On the one hand, it may sound as though I'm "strongly recommending" the above approach .... and I am ....
.... but there's also a "good news" aspect to that approach/way of being, as well:
You'll be amazed at how much *more* effective it is than "telling and selling" or "getting people to see" .. and how much easier on you.
It's *all* in the direction of relaxing, allowing and opening .... "Let Go and Let God" as the saying goes.
And yes, I've said that before ... and it can be said "Let Go, and Let Life" ... or however the phrasing best fits; it's the Letting Go, and the realizing that something larger than the ideas of our limited minds is "running the show" ... whether the "show" is discussing this amazing new thing called kundalini (and related practices) with people ... or whether "running the show" is your life, or the world.
Limited mind's only job, really, is to know that its only function is to get out of the way.
This isn't because mind has no positive role in life .............. it's because conditioned thinking has no positive role in life.
Realizing this, and stepping out of the way ..... helps things to flow, unfold and expand .... beautifully, now!
I truly hope this helps.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Edited by - Kirtanman on Oct 16 2009 11:36:50 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2009 : 12:13:39 AM
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Great post Kirtanman
quote:
let intuition, common sense and respect be your guide.
Awesome advice for any circumstance.
Love,
Carson |
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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2009 : 8:46:51 PM
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| Thanks for all the replies! But how do I suggest to my sister to try meditation without pushing her? (Mind you my sister is 15 and very distracted and forgetful - I would have to suggest this more than one time alone...) |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2009 : 9:53:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BellaMente
Thanks for all the replies! But how do I suggest to my sister to try meditation without pushing her? (Mind you my sister is 15 and very distracted and forgetful - I would have to suggest this more than one time alone...)
Well, my "one time" suggestion isn't so much a hard and fast rule as much as a "vibe" guideline.
If she'll appreciate reminders .... sure, remind.
If she's interested, sure ... help her interest along.
If you can see she's getting irritated with your reminders, and/or simply not interested ... I'd recommend letting it go, and just knowing that your own practice results will likely speak for themselves.
I know of several people who have been "in the vicinity" of daily meditators, who aren't interested in meditation themselves ... yet still seem to benefit from the meditation of those around them.
Continuing to meditate and being easy with it all is the way to the the light shine most clearly.
I hope this helps.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2009 : 10:06:47 PM
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| Okay got it, thanks Kirtanman for your words of wisdom! |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2009 : 11:09:18 PM
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I have three daughters ranging from 11 - 16 and at that age pushing definitely does not work.
A couple of suggestions to possibly start the interest and help with general focus...
1) Most teenagers have a difficult time focusing and getting down to homework. Suggest that the next time she sits down to homework to take three deep breaths - holding her breath for 4 seconds each time. Have her count in her head. She will be amazed how much it helps cut out the mental distractions and calm the mind for homework.
2) Tell her the next time that she listens to music on her ipod to try to just listen - don't think about anything. Tell her when she does the music will actually get louder in her head. It is pretty cool and creates a simple goal for focus, but it is amazingly hard to think about nothing. It works better with a steady calm pop beat than rap.
Hope this helps.
Regards, Jeff |
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ryansmith
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2009 : 01:35:06 AM
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| I think it is great that you want to spread kundalini. But at the same time i don't think you must force your will on anyone. Kundalini will happen if and when a person is ready, and if it takes being in your presence for this to happen, than that's beautiful. To each his own, and as a kunalini meditator, I feel blessed for my presecne to open up anyone further, but want it to be their choice. |
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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2009 : 7:35:56 PM
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Yes, Kirtanman your advice always helps!
Hello jeff, I know pushing doesn't work with her - last year I tried pushing her to study more French so she could practice speaking to me and that did not work at all! I didn't understand why either because I am her 'role-model' and I thought because of she looks up to me so much she would do this at least! After all she started to like math and would ask me all kinds of questions, she even wanted me to meet her math teacher... But then again I also tried to convince her to not smoke and she again didn't listen to me... Since I moved to Chicago, I barely speak to her and when my mom let me know she was getting into a lot of trouble and was grounded for a month I took the opportunity to tell her about how fun meditation is and teach her how to do it... But the next time I talked to her and asked if she tried it she said she forgot- but I repeated myself several times lol so I guess I was kind of pushy with her  . At least she was interested! I know she has been smoking weed with her friends so I told her: "Nada, you should really try this meditation, I'm telling you it is the same as smoking weed but better and without the paranoia and munchies! Plus you got to be bored since you are grounded and it doesn't hurt to try!" And then when I went back to Detroit, one night after meditation I had one of those "energy orgasms" people often describe and the next day i told her all about it... But she just thought I was being crazy again so I don't know if she took me seriously... But hey thanks for your suggestions about the breathing exercises I will definitely let her know, after all she is always complaining she can't stop getting distracted and can never focus!
By the way, after suggesting (okay I admit more than once) to my dad to try meditating he has already done it 4 times this week! He is doing meditation out of the book The Third Jesus by Deepak Chopra (that I actually bought him for his birthday without knowing about it having anything to do with meditation!) so I am happy for him, he is having a lot of interesting visions and dreams, and I am holding back my wanting to tell him about more about AYP when I feel it is the right time.
Thanks guys! |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2009 : 8:58:03 PM
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Hi BelleMente!
Give your Dad a copy of Deep Meditation for Christmas! Better yet, include the Spinal Breathing Pranayama book too!
Love,
Carson |
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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2009 : 9:25:39 PM
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| Good idea Carson! hehe I definitely plan to buy many many copies of all Yogani's books and distribute them all around! Unfortunately I haven't had the money to buy a single one of his books yet for myself, but I'm sure by Christmas I'll have more than enough |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2009 : 1:11:16 PM
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Directly to the initial post: first save yourself. You can share what you know. But it won't change anything. At least this is my experience. Even if you start shining brightly, most people just want to be near you, but that is all. No one will make the effort. It is a pitty that god only wants some few to enjoy union, but thats how it is. Those who really want it, will do everything to get it anyway. And a few of those will do it in the end.
Or in other words, don't expect others to do anything. Much easier for everyone. |
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Kundalini awakenings for everyone...
