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Philip
45 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 08 2007 : 7:31:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Samael Aun Weor said:
Jesus studied in Egypt and practiced Sexual Magic with his priestess inside one of the pyramids.
Philip, how does Samael Aun Weor purport to know this?
Only with the faculties of objective clairvoyance can we study the life of Jesus in the Akasic Records of Nature... -Samael Aun Weor
Objective clairvoyance is a vipassana of the highest order.
quote:
Insight. Vi comes from viesa which means “special” or “superior.” Ashana means “to perceive.” So Vipassana means “to perceive the superior.” Related to the Tibetan hlagtong: “To see the special.” Vipassana is the discrimination of phenomena. True Vipassana is achieved through the conscious use of the imagination, often called "clairvoyance."
http://www.gnosticteachings.org/the...ostic-jesus/ |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2007 : 8:05:12 PM
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I see. Uh-huh. We have to have special powers like Samael Aun Weor, and only then will we see what Samael Aun Weor sees:
Saith Samael Aun Weor:
"Many people believe that Samael is just a pseudonym. No! Indeed, I am Samael! By yourselves, you have read that in Kabbalah that Samael is classified as the angel regent of Mars. In the Bible, Samael is classified as a demon. It does not matter! The fact is that I am Samael! ......"
".... Samael Aun Weor is my true name as a Boddhisattwa. Samael is the name of my Monad! I am perfectly cognizant of the dawn of life in this Solar System! I saw the dawning of Creation! I am here with this humanity, from the very first moment, since the heart of this solar system started to palpitate after the long Cosmic Night. I came here (to this planet) because my Internal God, my Father who is within me, sent me! My only purpose is to serve and help this humanity! This is why I am serving my fellowmen. This is why I am working for the sake of this humanity! ..."
So let me see: God sent Samael, and gave him great powers to see things that the rest of can't (like Jesus having sex with his gal in the pyramid). Sounds fine and dandy so far -- but I'm just scratching my head here wondering why God didn't give the One he Sent the ability to prove to the world that he can accurately see stuff that we can't?
Can you cast any light on that Philip?
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 08 2007 8:23:01 PM |
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Philip
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2007 : 9:01:55 PM
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quote:
Can you cast any light on that Philip?
Well, the facts are, he did have the ability to prove to the word that he can accurately see stuff that we can't, and so do and did many, many, many of other people. C. W. Leadbeater (a purported "pedophile" by his enemies), actually did just this when he discovered isotopes years before official science using his clairvoyance. Concerning Samael Aun Weor, he proved himself endlessly to those around him, and even was incarcerated by Roman Catholic Church for "healing the sick without permission." He was so hated by the people around him that he had to flee into the jungles in order to avoid being killed by mobs of enemies because suddenly his "proof" was witchcraft, sorcery. Don't you get it? Do you comprehend the nature of this world?
Regardless, it was not his concern to go off showing people "powers," for the same reason all the arhats, yogis, saints, etc., who also have these powers did not. They are acts of God not to be toyed around with, but when they were needed, they were used. Otherwise, for what? To get more believers? God has no interest in believers. He could of had all the believers in the world, but that doesn't make someone happy, that does not remove one's suffering.
Love your enemies with all your heart and with all of your soul. Kiss the whip of your executioner, bless those who damn and persecute you; return good for evil.
Beloved brethren, I have the high honor of inviting you to a constant epistolary interchange, but please I beg you, I beseech you, do not send me any type of praise, adulations or cheers.
It is urgent, it is indispensable, for you to comprehend that I, as a person, am insignificant; I am worth a little bit less than the ashes of a cigarette. Thus, I am somebody who indeed does not have the least bit of importance.
Therefore, with much sincerity I tell you that any letter containing praise, adulation and cheers with be rejected.
Treat me heart to heart, from good to good, from love to love. Remember that Hermetic maxim that states: I give thee love within which the whole sumum of wisdom is contained.
To my worst enemies, those who hate me, damn and persecute me too much, those who criticize my books, I send them through this Christmas Message a fraternal hug filled with true love.
I adore my enemies; I adore my critics and wish for all of them, as is natural, a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. - Samael Aun Weor |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2007 : 9:38:51 PM
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quote:
david_obsidian: So let me see: God sent Samael, and gave him great powers to see things that the rest of can't (like Jesus having sex with his gal in the pyramid). Sounds fine and dandy so far -- but I'm just scratching my head here wondering why God didn't give the One he Sent the ability to prove to the world that he can accurately see stuff that we can't?
Can you cast any light on that Philip?
I'm not a proponent for or against Samael Aun Weor, but it stands to reason that these same questions surely caused a lot of head scratching from the hypocrites of Christ's time, too; but never allayed their satiation of knowing Christ's true station by way of taunting or proof.
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Jan 08 2007 11:16:52 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 12:42:00 AM
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VIL,
I must call foul for insinuating that I am a hypocrite, or associating me with them. If you want to associate anyone with hypocrites, please do it to yourself and leave me alone. There isn't a whit of hypocricy in any of this. That's just a red-herring insult.
I don't think Christ's time is relevant. Anyone who presents himself as some sort of Messiah in the 20th century needs to answer some 20th-century questions. The biggest and most obvious one is 'why should we believe you, and not the 100,000 or so other claimants to messiah status'.
So yes, one asks for proof. One is a fool not to. Particularly since these 100,000 Messiah's are contradictory in their teachings. Because when you add up what all the self-proclaimed messiahs say, you can believe anything. Anything.
Any real 20th or 21st-century messiah (if such a thing exists) will come with his/her ability to prove. He/she will convince intelligence. Because when it comes down to it, anything that can convince gullibility but not intelligence is not a messiah.
100,000 showing up and saying, "I'm the ONE; God sent me, but forgot to sign my ID card to prove it, sorry", just doesn't cut it. Not in the Age of Reason.
Samael Aun Weor: It is urgent, it is indispensable, for you to comprehend that I, as a person, am insignificant; I am worth a little bit less than the ashes of a cigarette. Thus, I am somebody who indeed does not have the least bit of importance.
Philip, a person can have elements of humility and be extremely sacro-mythically inflated at the same time. People can have Messiah complexes, and have moments of love, insight, and even humility (although the above isn't in the least bit humble in fact if you look a little more deeply).
They have Messiah complexes because their self-estimation is just gone off the charts; they are suffering from a delusion. If my self-estimation went far enough off the charts, I might behave in such a way that I have followers that need to be reminded that I, as a person, am insignificant and worth a little bit less than the ashes of a cigarette. As it is, my self-estimation is reasonably in balance, and consequently I don't behave in such a way that people need to be reminded of such a thing.
That's why saying something like that is actually grandiose, in an inverted way. It's not humility, but rather, grandiosity doing a humility-stunt. Usually, exhibitions of humility prove its absence. Humble people don't make exhibitions of humility. Their humility is just there all the time. There is nothing to protest.
To my worst enemies, those who hate me, damn and persecute me too much, those who criticize my books, I send them through this Christmas Message a fraternal hug filled with true love.
Likewise Samael, I give you a fraternal hug filled with true love, and wish you balanced self-estimation all of your days. Because you are not yet fully well, and I wish you full wellness.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 09 2007 01:11:16 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 05:49:18 AM
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Hi David.
quote:
Likewise Samael, I give you a fraternal hug filled with true love, and wish you balanced self-estimation all of your days. Because you are not yet fully well, and I wish you full wellness.
I thought that derogatorry statements about other spiritual teachers and traditions was banned on the AYP forum?
quote:
Yogani Wrote:
We do not permit the bashing of any tradition, guru, or teacher ... or each other, as has already been said. It is counter-productive to our purpose here, which is the ongoing positive integration and refinement of the best methods available, regardless of source.
Surely the moderators (like yourself) exist to prevent this sort of thing, not to accentuate it?
If I said that Jesus of Nazareth was "not yet fully well" or Yogani was "not yet fully well", I think I would have the moderators on my back.
Lets not have double standards.
Christi |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 06:39:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Likewise Samael, I give you a fraternal hug filled with true love, and wish you balanced self-estimation all of your days. Because you are not yet fully well, and I wish you full wellness.
Namaste David:
You may have to visit him on the astral plane to exchange a fraternal hug at this point, because Victor Manuel Gomez Rodriguez...a.k.a.'Samael Aun Weor'...died nearly thirty years ago on December 24, 1977. 
However, you raised a number of very valid and important questions regarding his credentials and teachings that you are not likely to receive satisfying answers to from Philip, IMO.
But that's OK, because some of the independently researched material about Samael Aun Weor, not specifically associated with the gnostic websites or the Magical Mystery Tour Channel, may be more telling and insightful in any event. 
Check out this site:
http://www.answers.com/topics/samael-aun-weor
Hari OM!
Doc
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Edited by - Doc on Jan 09 2007 06:43:32 AM |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 07:54:38 AM
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quote:
david_obsidian: VIL,
I must call foul for insinuating that I am a hypocrite, or associating me with them. If you want to associate anyone with hypocrites, please do it to yourself and leave me alone. There isn't a whit of hypocricy in any of this. That's just a red-herring insult.
quote:
david_obsidian: Whereas I am neutral on the subject matter, I have to say great job on that last post, Doc. You stated your case very well, without trying to cut anyone else down to size.
The word hypocrite was based on your claim of neutrality followed by this baited question:
quote:
Samael Aun Weor said:
Jesus studied in Egypt and practiced Sexual Magic with his priestess inside one of the pyramids.
Philip, how does Samael Aun Weor purport to know this?
And this gem of a neutral response:
quote:
david_obsidian: I see. Uh-huh. We have to have special powers like Samael Aun Weor, and only then will we see what Samael Aun Weor sees:
Saith Samael Aun Weor:
"Many people believe that Samael is just a pseudonym. No! Indeed, I am Samael! By yourselves, you have read that in Kabbalah that Samael is classified as the angel regent of Mars. In the Bible, Samael is classified as a demon. It does not matter! The fact is that I am Samael! ......"
".... Samael Aun Weor is my true name as a Boddhisattwa. Samael is the name of my Monad! I am perfectly cognizant of the dawn of life in this Solar System! I saw the dawning of Creation! I am here with this humanity, from the very first moment, since the heart of this solar system started to palpitate after the long Cosmic Night. I came here (to this planet) because my Internal God, my Father who is within me, sent me! My only purpose is to serve and help this humanity! This is why I am serving my fellowmen. This is why I am working for the sake of this humanity! ..."
So let me see: God sent Samael, and gave him great powers to see things that the rest of can't (like Jesus having sex with his gal in the pyramid). Sounds fine and dandy so far -- but I'm just scratching my head here wondering why God didn't give the One he Sent the ability to prove to the world that he can accurately see stuff that we can't?
Can you cast any light on that Philip?
quote:
david_obsidian: I don't think Christ's time is relevant. Anyone who presents himself as some sort of Messiah in the 20th century needs to answer some 20th-century questions. The biggest and most obvious one is 'why should we believe you, and not the 100,000 or so other claimants to messiah status'.
That was rich, david, but maybe you could shed some light, as to why Christ, who's Messiaship was always in question, isn't relevant to the topic at hand, let alone Gnosticism and Christianity in the 20th Century - And also why Phillip need endure the bane insults from you and Doc?
quote:
Doc: Namaste David:
You may have to visit him on the astral plane to exchange a fraternal hug at this point, because Victor Manuel Gomez Rodriguez...a.k.a.'Samael Aun Weor'...died nearly thirty years ago on December 24, 1977.
However, you raised a number of very valid and important questions regarding his credentials and teachings that you are not likely to receive satisfying answers to from Philip, IMO.
But that's OK, because some of the independently researched material about Samael Aun Weor, not specifically associated with the gnostic websites or the Magical Mystery Tour Channel, may be more telling and insightful in any event.
Check out this site:
http://www.answers.com/topics/samael-aun-weor
Hari OM!
So, it's okay to disrespect Samael Aun Weor, via hyperbole, Doc; and yet you were the first one to cry foul when david_obsidian mistakenly misspelled your guru's name? Truly amazing.
And, you, david_obsidian who got all bent out of shape when Chiron called you and Doc out on your previous behavior, toward Phillip, but rather than take responsibility, you wait for the right opportunity, passive aggressively accuse Chiron of harboring a sectarian point of view, then ask him to stop, stating that AYP isn't the place for this? LOL. Kettle, meet black.
You two enjoy each other, I'd rather not comment on the subject matter or any of your subsequent posts. Enjoy the last word, I'm sure you're entitled.
VIL
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Edited by - VIL on Jan 09 2007 09:04:08 AM |
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Philip
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 08:47:13 AM
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quote:
The biggest and most obvious one is 'why should we believe you, and not the 100,000 or so other claimants to messiah status'.
Well, never have I ever seen a single statement from Samael Aun Weor regarding why his students have to believe him, in fact I have only seen the opposite. David, I already told you that he was not interested in gathering up followers. The whole thing is a non sequitur, just because you assume he wants followers doesn't mean its true. What do you actually know about his life? What do you actually know about his status? How did he live? etc, etc.
He did tell people repeatedly to not follow him, or believe in him, or to praise him, because lots and lots and lots of people of did, and still do, which is wrong. Really, it doesn't matter what theory you have about this making him even more proud, etc. A plausible, logical theory is nevertheless totally subjective (because it comes from the subject, the mind, the 'I') and has nothing to do with "proof."
Schools have already given everything they have to offer. The centers of knowledge have now been converted into places of business, each with its own tyrant that forbids its adepts and students to go out in search of knowledge. Prohibitions here, excommunications and threats there, always leaving things for tomorrow, making a big issue out of the password, the protective amulet, the nonphysical ultra secrets that no other school possesses. So these anxious tyrants hang around for centuries, gathering up their heartless henchmen.
Therefore, we are not looking for flatterers of masters nor are we interested in hard-hearted henchmen. We are just guiding pillars; so do not become attached to us because our mission is not to gather up followers. We indicate with logical thought and exact concept the path to follow so that everyone can reach his own Internal Master who dwells in silence within each one of us.
We teach you that knowledge belongs to the Innermost and that virtues and spiritual gifts are not a matter of pretense or fake humility, but rather, they (virtues and spiritual gifts) are tremendous realities that convert us into powerful and gigantic oaks so that the frailties of the mind, the threats of black magicians, the envy of tyrants will shatter against our strong character.
This course is for all the rebels in all schools, for those who do not entrust themselves to masters, for those unsatisfied with all the beliefs, for those who still have some courage and a spark of love left within them.
We are not interested in anyone’s money, nor are we interested in monthly fees, brick, cement or clay lecture halls because we are conscious visitors in the cathedral of the soul and we know that wisdom belongs to the soul. Flattery bores us, praise should only belong to our Father, who is in secret and who watches us closely.
We are not in search of followers, all we want is for each person to follow his Inner Self, his own Internal Master, his sacred Inner Being because He is the only one that can save and glorify us.
Men offer human knowledge, therefore I, Samael Aun Weor do not follow anyone but God, who offers the Bread of Life; the Truth is what shall set you free. This is why no one should follow me. Whosoever follows his Inner God will become a leader of himself and therefore, he will be blessed.
We do not want any more comedies, pretenses, false mysticism or false schools. What we want now are living realities; we want to prepare ourselves to see, hear and touch the reality of those truths. Let us seize the sword of willpower in order to break the chains of this world and boldly launch ourselves towards a remarkable battle for liberation, because we know that salvation lies within the human being. -Samael Aun Weor
quote:
So yes, one asks for proof. One is a fool not to.
There is plenty of proof to your awakened consciousness. Yet, the sleeping consciousness does not know its ass from its elbow, and this why there is so much confusion and suffering in this world. Yes, it is necessary to awaken to have proof, real objective proof. And, any individual who goes to bed at night and remains unconscious for the next eight hours, and even worse doesn't even remember his dreams (unconscious activity), sleeps profoundly. Anyone who cannot remember their past day in its total and complete entirety, down to each minute detail, is living with their consciousness sleeping. That is why this whole humanity is the living dead, and rightly so: "let the dead bury the dead," let them do what they want.
Pride is the overestimation of one's self worth and self knowledge. David, if what I stated regarding sleep fits you, then in reality, what you do have is an atom of data, a couple words, and with that you are building a monument based upon your theories, which, according to my own experience, have no bearing on truth.
You don't have to accept. You don't have to reject. That is not the objective here. The objective is to comprehend, which has nothing to do with accepting anything or rejecting anything. When you accept something on belief then you stop the ability to comprehend that thing. When you reject something, then you stop the ability of further comprehending that thing. It is the degenerate mind (sleeping consciousness) that immediately accepts and rejects all its sensations, labels them falsely and then pretends that it has comprehended it. Meditation is required to know the truth about anything. Daily meditation is to your soul and mind what a daily shower is to your body. Arguments, even mine, at the end of the day, mean nothing.
Nevertheless, I of course understand your sentiments, and wish you the best. 
“Beware of false prophets.” Do not accept external Masters in the physical plane. -Samael Aun Weor |
Edited by - Philip on Jan 09 2007 09:20:35 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 10:25:04 AM
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Christi said:
I thought that derogatorry statements about other spiritual teachers and traditions was banned on the AYP forum?
You have a point, but the truth is, don't we have a double standard if members can cite their spiritual teachers as authorities, and yet the authority of the spiritual teachers can't be questioned by other members. How is that double-standard resolved?
Can Philip put forward the authority of Samael Aun Weor in such an extreme manner? Can I then question the authority of Samael Aun Weor ? And if so, how? Have I just crossed a line in how I did it, or is he to be left unquestioned? And how am I to know if someone is a 'spiritual teacher' and to be left unquestioned, or just some guy writing some questionable stuff (which is the way I saw him)?
My thinking is that I did cross a line in the sharpness of my response, and I apologize about it, though I do still believe in the substance of that I said. By the way, my wishing Samael Aun Weor a balanced self-image is totally sincere. It was not mean or cruel. I apologize if anyone found it offensive.
Philip said: and with that you are building a monument based upon your theories, which, according to my own experience, have no bearing on truth.
Likewise, I have my own lights which you may know nothing of. I can see a lot of mistakes other people can't, and the mistakes are often systematic, deep and psychological. The related ability has saved me, where others have been lost. I largely keep quiet about my inner experience, but it informs me highly. I may have a gift. Just like the line from (well, won't spoil the movie for people who haven't seen it), "I see dead people. They don't know they're dead", I see sacro-mythically inflated people, they don't know they are sacro-mythically inflated.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 09 2007 10:40:04 AM |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 11:02:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by VIL:
So, it's okay to disrespect Samael Aun Weor, via hyperbole, Doc; and yet you were the first one to cry foul when david_obsidian mistakenly misspelled your guru's name? Truly amazing.
And, you, david_obsidian who got all bent out of shape when Chiron called you and Doc out on your previous behavior, toward Phillip, but rather than take responsibility, you wait for the right opportunity, passive aggressively accuse Chiron of harboring a sectarian point of view, then ask him to stop, stating that AYP isn't the place for this? LOL. Kettle, meet black.
Yo, VIL:
1) As I recall, Philip specifically stated that the gnostic catholic church he was referring to existed in the "superior worlds", and that said 'church' and its teachings could only be accessed through astral travel to these worlds. It was also stated that the gnostic teachings could truly be known only through the study of akashic records in these celestial realms. As such, if anyone accepts those statements as factual and true, it certainly isn't any stretch of the imagination to consider this to be the place to encounter Samael Aun Weor since his death 30 years ago! How, therefore, is suggesting that he could perhaps be contacted there to be seen as disrespectful?
2) David did in fact raise valid and important questions regarding the credentials and the 'authority' of Mr. Rodriguez's teachings, which I felt were clearly answered in the neutral, unbiased biographical information provided through the link I posted.
3) I initially felt that David had deliberately misspelled Swami Narayanananda's name several times as an intended slight or insult. When confronted with that perspective, he was quick to assure me that this was not the case. I accepted his reply as true, since 'Narayanananda' is an admittedly cumbersome name in English, and we moved on from there. That's now a dead-issue since then, and really isn't a very good analogy persuant to this discussion at present. 
4) I cannot speak for David, but for my part, there was nothing "passive" about confronting Chiron's comments. His posts have in fact echoed Philip's posts with a decidedly biased, sectarian view of the subject matter at hand. And that has been quite clear, IMO.
5) What I have requested from the outset is that the gnostic teachings regarding Jesus and Christianity be presented only as exactly that...the gnostic teachings and views...but not be repeatedly presented as the only accurate, true, and authoritative teachings and views on these subjects solely because the writings of Victor Rodriguez/Samael Aun Weor say so. That's not unreasonable or unfair, and certainly not disrespectful. I honor the right of anyone here to believe what they personally choose to, but not their self-appointed right to choose for anyone else.
6) Before you get into accusing the kettle of calling the pot black, you might wish to re-read your own previous posts for assessment according to the same 'standard' you apply to others.
"First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye" Luke 6:42
Doc
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 11:03:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Philip
quote:
Quote by Samael Aun Weor:
"We know the life of the Great Master and we know that Jesus was really a complete man in the fullest sense of the word. Jesus had a priestess wife, because he was not an infrasexual. The wife of Jesus was evidently a complete Lady Adept, endowed with great secret powers. Jesus traveled through Europe and was a member of a Mediterranean Mystery School. Jesus studied in Egypt and practiced Sexual Magic with his priestess inside one of the pyramids. That is how he recapitulated the initiations and later achieved the Venustic Initiation. Jesus traveled through Persia, India, etc. Thus, the Great Master was a Master in the most complete sense of the word. Jesus lived the drama of the Passion; nonetheless, he was not the only one who has lived it. Prior to him, some Initiates like Hermes, Quetzalcoatl, Krishna, Orpheus, Buddha etc., lived it. After Him, a few others have lived it. The drama of the Passion is cosmic...
Jesus was a complete man. Jesus was not the castrated one who many religions depicted. Jesus followed the Path of the Perfect Matrimony. Jesus formed the Christ within himself by practicing Sexual Magic with his wife. What we are stating will shock fanatics... - The Perfect Matrimony
Quoting Samael Aun Weor is one thing, and quoting Philip is another (no attack intended).
The question for me is whether Philip is identifying with the quote
from Samael Aun Weor.
Philip, do you justify your truth with Samael Aun Weor's quotes,
or have you come by experience to the same conclusions ?
That is, have you looked up the Akashic Records yourself, and are
you able to look up these records ?
And are you considering that in the astral planes anything can be
shown to you and the perception of your truth (as well as mine)
depends on our ability to grasp the truth.
Love and Light
Wolfgang |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 11:25:12 AM
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VIL, I said I was "neutral on the subject matter" because I wanted it to be clear that I was commending the way Doc had written his post (in the context of all that went before it), as opposed to taking a side in some ongoing dispute, whose boundaries and participants are not even clear to me. It's a bit strange to go from there to thinking I can be fairly labelled a hypocrite because I then provide an opinion on something new that came up. That's really absurd.
The rule not to make personal attacks on people is a very important one. Which is about not labelling people offensively. So, that's for your awareness, something to work with. It's not a big black mark on your copybook or anything.
And, you, david_obsidian who got all bent out of shape when Chiron called you and Doc out on your previous behavior, toward Phillip, but rather than take responsibility, you wait for the right opportunity, passive aggressively accuse Chiron of harboring a sectarian point of view, then ask him to stop, stating that AYP isn't the place for this? LOL. Kettle, meet black.
Gosh. It's amazing how two people have an entirely different interpretation of events. There was a fight building up and I saw myself as the humorous peace-maker in all that, humorously reminding people that they were playing a game they were accusing the 'other' of playing, and trying to get them out of the fight. I thought the participants in question would take it with some humor, and I think they did. If I were to go back again I would only modify it by making it a little easier to take.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 09 2007 11:41:39 AM |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 12:53:08 PM
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quote:
david_obsidian: The rule not to make personal attacks on people is a very important one. Which is about not labelling people offensively. So, that's for your awareness, something to work with. It's not a big black mark on your copybook or anything.
No, david, the above is an example of a double standard brought to your attention. Regardless, I refuse to sit back and watch you and Doc attack Phillip any longer. No matter how many times you two attempt to justify your behavior.
This will be my last post. yogani, Christi, Katrine, emc, Phillip, Kyman, Kirtman and everyone else... it's been a pleasure:
yogani, please take me off of your members list.
Thank you:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Jan 09 2007 1:53:01 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 1:52:02 PM
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Goodbye VIL. If you change your mind, we're here.
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 2:24:11 PM
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Adios, Amigo. Vaya con Dios! You'll be missed.
Hari OM!
Doc |
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Philip
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 5:44:13 PM
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quote:
Quoting Samael Aun Weor is one thing, and quoting Philip is another (no attack intended).
The question for me is whether Philip is identifying with the quote
from Samael Aun Weor.
Philip, do you justify your truth with Samael Aun Weor's quotes,
or have you come by experience to the same conclusions ?
That is, have you looked up the Akashic Records yourself, and are
you able to look up these records?
And are you considering that in the astral planes anything can be
shown to you and the perception of your truth (as well as mine)
depends on our ability to grasp the truth.
Love and Light
Wolfgang
Samael Aun Weor's words are much more authoritative than mine, thus, I quote him as I do many other spiritual masters. There is a great deal of wisdom in the 60 odd books he wrote.
Now, from my point of view, Jesus performing "sexual magic," meaning, intercourse without orgasm ever with a priestess is obvious and essential if one considers him a prophet, because no one can be born again without sex. How exactly that occurred, under what circumstances, I don't have any direct vision of that.
Concerning the astral plane. Yes, the astral plane can be extremely subjective. Case in point is our dreams, this occurs in the inferior astral world. What ones "sees," whether subjective or objective, is always a combination of imagination applied through willpower. When that will is trapped in desire, the outcome is a dream, or any manner of a subjective vision. When that willpower is liberated, then through the mirror of the imagination, any event, past, present, or future can be viewed. The clarity and depth of comprehension depends upon the abilities of the meditator. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 5:53:11 PM
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Thanks Doc for the link. I picked up some more of Samael Aun Weor, which I was starting to expect:
Likewise, Samael Aun Weor calls homosexuals "rotten seeds" in his work Yes there is Hell, a Devil, and Karma because unlike heterosexuals they do not have the ability to fecundate the Solar Bodies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael_Aun_Weor
I'd invite people to take a look at the picture at the link. Samael Aun Weor does not look very happy or serene, and even looks angry. Let everyone judge for himself. You guys can believe him that he is the Angel Regent of Mars, but I'm going with my gut on this one. No, other people here are free to differ, but I don't believe Samael Aun Weor is an Angel Regent, an authority on Gnosis, a Boddhisattwa, an authority on spiritual knowledge, or in particular any kind of authority on the real meaning of the Bible or Jesus' message or Christianity.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 09 2007 6:20:37 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 7:55:37 PM
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Yes, but he does have a god-sized ego, and is quite adept at masturbation of the brain.
I know, I'm not worthy of his information-from-god, because I would have to understand a whole bunch of thick boring books first.
He loves it when people say stuff like this; see his quote above. |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 8:01:49 PM
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Wow, I didn't realize that Samael Aun Weor said things like that. I guess I got a little too involved with this topic and wasn't seeing things from a healthy perspective. I couldn't disagree more with Samael's statement. I personally find the comment offensive.
Thank you for sharing that, david, and I apologize to you, and Doc, and anyone else that I have offended with my comments. I'm going to take yogani's advice, from a similar topic, and stick to things that are productive [can't remember his exact wording] and decided to stay with AYP, thanks in part to trip1 who was caring enough to send me an email. Btw, I plan on getting yogani's 'The secret of Wilder' book on Friday.
Peace, love, laughter, and all of that namaste stuff:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Jan 09 2007 8:10:49 PM |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 8:11:58 PM
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| I'm glad you are staying VIL. We do value your contributions! |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 8:31:11 PM
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Thanks, weaver, I feel the same about you and all the members of this forum:
VIL |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 10:43:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by weaver
I'm glad you are staying VIL. We do value your contributions!
Welcome back, VIL!
I, too, am happy to see you posting here again. I have enjoyed your insights on various topics many times thus far, and would have sincerely missed your ongoing presence in these discussions.  Thanks for your apology, too. No hard hard feelings here. You're still loved and appreciated the same as before. We're cool! 
Many thanks to you, David, for boldly offering your astute observations in the face of much criticism. I for one am in total agreement with you.  Initially, I wanted to post such observations myself. I decided instead, however, to merely post the link to a source of unbiased, factual information about Victor Rodriguez/Samael Aun Weor for all of you to examine, so that you could then come to your own conclusions...based on your own observations, whatever those observations might ultimately be.
In this way, Samael Aun Weor's beliefs and teachings are probably more easily assessed on the basis of his own published and recorded words, rather than in reaction to someone else's words regarding him and his teachings.
Warm regards to all ~
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Jan 09 2007 10:56:35 PM |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2007 : 04:26:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Likewise, Samael Aun Weor calls homosexuals "rotten seeds" in his work Yes there is Hell, a Devil, and Karma because unlike heterosexuals they do not have the ability to fecundate the Solar Bodies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael_Aun_Weor
And Christianity is in agreement with his words:
"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev 20:13
"If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death." 1 Cor 6:9
Tantra requires the participation of both sexes in order to achieve divine union. Gnosticism and AYP I think are in agreement on that. Homosexuals are searching for the right thing (union of the musculine and femine energies within themselves) but they are doing it in an incorrect (exoteric) and misguided fashion. So Samuel is correct in that they "do not have the ability to fecundate the Solar Bodies" for they cannot receive the fruits of tantra.
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
[b]
I'd invite people to take a look at the picture at the link. Samael Aun Weor does not look very happy or serene, and even looks angry.
I can't tell if he doesn't look very happy, serene or angry but I know that not all anger leads to degradation. If you get angry at another's illusions and wrongdoing, changing them, then this anger can lead to your own development in the future. Anger, if controlled and channelled properly can be a force for progress, just like sex..
Jonah 4:1,4,9b - But this was very displeasing to Jonah, and he became angry. And the Lord said, "Is it right for you to be angry?" And he said, "Yes, angry enough to die."
John 2:14-15 - In the temple Jesus found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and money changers seated at their tables. Making a whip of cords, he drove all of them out of the temple.
Matthew 10:34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
This is because in a world of lies, the sword of truth is what is required. If demons were to be forgiven, they would become even more wicked. If a man shows aggression it does not necessarily mean he is not an Angel Regent, an authority on Gnosis, a Boddhisattwa, or an authority on spiritual knowledge. To know whether this man is all these things or not we would need experiential knowledge (gnosis), or qualitative knowledge as Doc puts it. Otherwise we simply have a choice of trying the practices he set out or not.
I have been in hospital recently and was unable to get out of bed for a couple of days. Prior to that I downloaded a few gnostic lectures onto my mp3 player. Listening to those lectures was my spiritual practice for those two days. Not only have they filled many gaps in my knowledge of many religions but they have also filled some gaps in my daily practice (eg. reviewing my daily conduct everyday before falling asleep). I have found benefit from this teaching, so I am thankful that this heated discussion took place. |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2007 : 08:04:04 AM
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Thanks, Doc, for your words of sentiment:
I think it best to back away from this topic and enjoy all of the other things that AYP has to offer:
Thanks again:
Edit: I have to leave this food for thought:
"For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." Matt: 19:12
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Jan 10 2007 08:48:54 AM |
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Kabbalah, Gnosticism and Christianity
