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Philip
45 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 03 2007 : 10:23:30 PM
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quote:
The Gnostic Catholic Church, however, was founded in 1907 by Jean Bricaud, Gerard Encausse, and Louis-Sophrone Fugairon...all of whom were members of the Gnostic Church of France, founded in 1890 by Jules Doinel. Doinel abdicated his position as Patriarch of the Gnostic Church, and resigned from membership as a Freemason in 1895 to become a Roman Catholic. His expose of the Gnostic Church and the Freemasons written thereafter...entitled 'Lucifer Unmasked'...is a very revealing, 'inside look' at the core of both organizations. Additional, accurate information about the history of the Gnostic Church and the Gnostic Catholic Church can be found here:
http://www.hermetic.com/sabazius/history_egc.htm
Http://www.oto-usa.org/egc.html
Hari OM!
Doc
Actually that is not the Gnostic Catholic Church I am referring to. The one I am referring to is found in the superior worlds.
If you want to visit, then learn how to travel in the astral body. A good mantra to achieve this is FARAON. This is an Egyptian mantra. While going to bed, practice meditation as you fall asleep, chanting this mantra mentally. Chant this thousands of times if necessary, like this: FAAAAAAAA RAAAAAAAA OOOOONNNNNNN. This mantra will help you to leave your body after it falls asleep. |
Edited by - Philip on Jan 03 2007 10:42:59 PM |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2007 : 01:41:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Philip:
"Actually that is not the Gnostic Catholic Church I am referring to. The one I am referring to is found in the superior worlds."
Well now...that certainly provides a convenient apologetic defense, doesn't it?  But not very easily accessible for a practical method of spiritual self-cultivation, is it?  
Hari OM!
Doc |
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Philip
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2007 : 4:42:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc
quote:
Originally posted by Philip:
"Actually that is not the Gnostic Catholic Church I am referring to. The one I am referring to is found in the superior worlds."
Well now...that certainly provides a convenient apologetic defense, doesn't it? But not very easily accessible for a practical method of spiritual self-cultivation, is it?
Hari OM!
Doc
I recommend that you don't be so pessimistic and locked within your current ideas about what is possible. It is, indeed, very easily accessible for a practical method of spiritual self-cultivation, if you know the KEYS and the CIPHERS that unlock the mysteries. There are many mantras, postures, and other keys to help the aspirant consciously travel in the astral body. I know this from my own experience but that means nothing unless you know it. If you want to know what I am talking about then you can take up the effort and experience it for yourself. This is a wonderful thing, to experience for one's self. If you don't want to do that, then that is what is convenient for you: to continue believing whatever you want to believe and labeling what you reject with figurative nomenclature describing horse excrement. |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2007 : 5:44:04 PM
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Philip:
I get the picture, Bubba!  You hold the "Keys and Ciphers that unlock the mysteries" which would enable us all to ascend into the 'Superior Worlds' and 'Celestial Realms, right? Even someone like me, who apparently has no previous experience with "mantras, postures, and other keys" to spiritual self-cultivation and illumination, right? Very cool! 
Philip, please know that I truly believe ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE....especially through the Loving Grace and Will of God....yet some things remain highly improbable nonetheless! 
Hari OM!
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Jan 04 2007 7:04:52 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2007 : 7:19:33 PM
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Doc,
on the bright side, there are probably 2,000,000,000 (2 billion) people in the world who think they know what you don't, and that you would do well to be initiated into what they know. If there were only 1, some counterargument would seem necessary. Paradoxically, the 1,999,999,999 others seem to render a counter-argument quite unnecessary, don't you think?
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 04 2007 7:23:28 PM |
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Philip
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2007 : 8:24:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc
Philip:
I get the picture, Bubba! You hold the "Keys and Ciphers that unlock the mysteries" which would enable us all to ascend into the 'Superior Worlds' and 'Celestial Realms, right? Even someone like me, who apparently has no previous experience with "mantras, postures, and other keys" to spiritual self-cultivation and illumination, right? Very cool!
Philip, please know that I truly believe ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE....especially through the Loving Grace and Will of God....yet some things remain highly improbable nonetheless!
Hari OM!
Doc
I disagree. I don't think you get the picture.
No, I don't hold the keys because they neither belong to me, nor any other individual.
Being universal, they belong to the very fabric of the universe. |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2007 : 10:53:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Doc,
on the bright side, there are probably 2,000,000,000 (2 billion) people in the world who think they know what you don't, and that you would do well to be initiated into what they know. If there were only 1, some counterargument would seem necessary. Paradoxically, the 1,999,999,999 others seem to render a counter-argument quite unnecessary, don't you think?
David:
Good point! Totally agreed. Thanks for the reminder.
Hari OM!
Doc |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2007 : 10:59:37 PM
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"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us." "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us." Mark 9: 38-40
Myriads of wisdom to ponder:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Jan 04 2007 11:09:23 PM |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2007 : 11:08:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Philip
I disagree. I don't think you get the picture.
No, I don't hold the keys because they neither belong to me, nor any other individual.
Being universal, they belong to the very fabric of the universe.
OK, Philip. You're right. I don't get the Magical Mystery Tour Channel here in Texas. But they're fixin' to add it to our Cable Package perty soon.
Meanwhile, Bubba, I hope you don't mind if I add you to my daily Prayer List.
Hari OM!
Doc |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2007 : 05:50:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Philip
If you want to visit, then learn how to travel in the astral body. A good mantra to achieve this is FARAON. This is an Egyptian mantra. While going to bed, practice meditation as you fall asleep, chanting this mantra mentally. Chant this thousands of times if necessary, like this: FAAAAAAAA RAAAAAAAA OOOOONNNNNNN. This mantra will help you to leave your body after it falls asleep.
Hi again Phillip,
Do you have more information about astral travel? Did Samuel Aun Weor write any books on the subject? How about causal travel?
What I thought so far is that we need reasonably well developed chakras in order to be able to use the lighter bodies associated with those chakras. Is that wrong? Can anybody learn to astral travel just through one mantra meditation?
Thanks.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2007 : 11:08:29 AM
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Hi Philip,
Thanks for all the really interesting posts.
quote:
Actually that is not the Gnostic Catholic Church I am referring to. The one I am referring to is found in the superior worlds.
If you want to visit, then learn how to travel in the astral body. A good mantra to achieve this is FARAON. This is an Egyptian mantra. While going to bed, practice meditation as you fall asleep, chanting this mantra mentally. Chant this thousands of times if necessary, like this: FAAAAAAAA RAAAAAAAA OOOOONNNNNNN. This mantra will help you to leave your body after it falls asleep.
I visited a church in the astral realm once. It was unbelievable. Inside the church were angels singing. They were singing glory to the Divine. I was speachless. I certainly didn't ask them anything, the very idea would have seemed crazy. I mean, they were divine beings of light praising God. The idea of tapping one of them on the shoulder and saying "excuse me, I was just wondering about the human nervous system...?" or something, just wouldn't have seemed appropriate. Do you think I just turned up at a moment when they were busy, and if I had hung around I could have had a chat?
These angels were pretty high (spiritually), and large (physically). Afterwards, all I could think for a while was "Glory, Glory, Glory, Glory unto the highest" and those words from the bible started to make some sense.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Jan 05 2007 11:39:34 AM |
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yoginstar
Netherlands
78 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2007 : 11:26:59 AM
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Chiron, I mentioned to you before that you have a very special name astrologically speaking:-)
Let me elucidate on the principle of Secrets of a Silver Trader and Astrological Bracelets:
...... I was reminded in trying to create a new webstyle to make my life a bit easier managing all the pages, that astrology is both a LITERAL astronomical thing, as well as a language, a symbolic language. There is no other way to logically grasp anything about the sky/ our purpose on the Earth, other than using a precise symbolic language. It is only the language of the planets and stars which symbolizes the connection between Heaven and Earth itself.
This in astrology as it is practised in the Netherlands I have both a problem as well as a solution.
Dutch astrologers these days are very fond of using
*the Black Sun
*the Black Moon
*the Black Hole
transcribing these into the Black Cat, the Dark Sun, and the Sad Couple without children.
This interpretation from astronomical data is the true dark interpretation, it is an interpretation on a level where God is not a known, nor apparently even trusted in.
I dont practice Dutch astrology so much although I have been initiated in it. I dont practice the German Cosmobiology school (midpoints) neither although I have been initiated in that as well (in the UK) . It was Dane Rudhyar who brought some true Light into all of this dark matter.
In Rudhyar's transpersonal astrology,
the Black Sun equate the progressed Lunation Cycle.
the Black Moon equates no longer the sad widow or widower (Piscean Age talk that is, where suffering accompanied the path), but it equates the t ime in life when Pluto and Saturn make an aspect to one another. This is an aspect of CHOICE. Ebertin, from the German school has interpreted this aspect both ways: as the ultimate place of Hell on Earth, as well as the ultimate Enlightenment. It is quite easy to use the principles for the Enlightenment Series here: it is just about taking utter responsibility for one's own life. At whatever age on is in life. Even at a very young age this can happen, we're talking about adopted kids here.
Thus the combination of Pluto/Saturn is the only combination which gets the dark out of the Black Moon symbolism, and turns it into some light and hope for deserted children everywhere.
The Black Hole, the ultimate one, is where matter turns unto antimatter. It is the astronomer's way of saying that there is an end to existence, that ultimately the world itself will implode back in into itself.
Hm, maybe, but that was also Piscean Age thinking.
In Stellar Astrology, the Black Hole equates with the Galactic Center of the entire Milky Way. The Milky Way is the INNER state of ecstacy. The problem is, this is a tight rope we're walking here between enlightenment and sanity, between insanity and sanity.
The Light way is the way of the Heart. And of Truth, and of TRULY believing in that which you do.
Thus, ultimately, I propose to use the following demoninations in astrology:
1) the astrology without heart, and without belief inGod:
by all means, be obsessed with The Black Sun, the Black Moon and the Black Hole.
2) the astrology with heart, and with a belief in God, they use
the perigeum and apogeum points of the Moon, together with the Lunar Nodes rather than "the Black Moon".
for the hell of the utter and final loneliness of the process of dying, they do not use the Black Sun, for with a belief in God, they use something else instead: Pluto and Saturn in combination meaning taking UTTER responsibility for ONESELF, they equal the dark ages of the past indeed, which need to turn to light.
3) For the desperation of dying, they use the pointer of the Galactic Center: the Center of the entire Milky Way (currently at 26+ Sagittarius just like Pluto itself). They can only do that if there is a belief in God.
Thus the use of "the Black Moon" is okay, but it is like a pining widow at a grave, or a black spidersweb, for God is nowhere in sight.
SPIRITUAL ASTROLOGY therefor simply obsessively so REFUSES to use the Black Moon in astrology.
Instead, it uses some wisdom from India: wearing an ASTROLOGICAL BRACELET. In ISAR some have said, with regard to the ISAR ethics code, that no astrologer should advise clients to buy all kinds of expensive gemstones as a protection for dark ages within.
Members of Self Realization Fellowships sell and buy these astrological bracelets, but they don't even know it is astrological. They just believe wholesale (which is the way of Spirit anyway).
I am fortunate enough to be in the possession of one of these Astrological Bracelets. They are made of PURE Gold, Copper and Silver. They are only astrological bracelets, of the relevance of this is seen in its true light. They are only protection of some astrology is used here.
Gold is the Sun, and it is not the Dark Sun.... it's about changes in seasons, about the Progressed Lunation Cycle.
Silver is the Moon, and it is not the Dark Moon ... it's not about slavery any more, from the female to the male.
Copper, can be found on Cyprus. But you just have to know where to look to find it.
It needs to understand the true existence of Chiron as a comet.
Than we're talking books in the Enlightenment Series. Secrets of Wilder? Secrets of Business Principles? Secrets of a Silver Trader? This latter title only LOOKS to the uninitiated in the principle of Chiron to be the ultimate dark of matter. Well, the difference is only this, does one truly believe a God exists or what? Therein lies the difference.
The COPPER of the astrological bracelet, is a combination of Cheiron as an astrological principle, and a true gnostic one person church that in fact, I did visit once. I am offering all of this information because I have come to understand meantime, that it is groupformation we need, we need to find out who our friends are, for the true key only lies in the hands of many, not within a single person. And again (and again and again:-)) therein lies the true genius of Yogani of creating what he did.
This is going to sound like a book of revelations if I continue with this.. but I dont know what I am revealing to myself unless I talk and get all this wonderful feedback from you...:-))
My head is clear in the English language currently. It is entirely in the dark in the Dutch language. I think I will probably jump back into one of the forums tonight, for some more relvelations from you and others to keep me still sane (my number 1 priority by the way).
Ciao!
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yoginstar
Netherlands
78 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2007 : 11:28:26 AM
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| Dzjee Philip, thanks for the mantra! |
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Philip
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2007 : 4:13:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chiron
quote:
Originally posted by Philip
If you want to visit, then learn how to travel in the astral body. A good mantra to achieve this is FARAON. This is an Egyptian mantra. While going to bed, practice meditation as you fall asleep, chanting this mantra mentally. Chant this thousands of times if necessary, like this: FAAAAAAAA RAAAAAAAA OOOOONNNNNNN. This mantra will help you to leave your body after it falls asleep.
Hi again Phillip,
Do you have more information about astral travel? Did Samuel Aun Weor write any books on the subject? How about causal travel?
Yes he wrote many times on the subject. There is a book called Dream Yoga which is a compilation of chapters from different books which you can buy here: http://www.gnosticstore.org/servlet/Detail?no=26
An audio book presentation of the book can be found here: http://www.gnosticradio.org/index.p...16&Itemid=28 (You can also find this audio book on iTunes, if you have that, then click here: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/...id=211066002)
Additionally, there is a course on dream yoga here: http://www.gnosticteachings.org/cou.../dream-yoga/
Dream Yoga is the term used by the Tibetans. You can probably find books coming from a directly Tibetan perspective if you search of "Dream Yoga" on Amazon.com, however I can't vouch for any specific one.
We all leave our bodies at night when we sleep, but we do so unconsciously. While there in limbo we project our unconsciousness onto the screen of life and "dream." Realize that this same unconscious activity occurs all the time, day and night. We do it actively through daydreaming, but it is always occurring. Using the methods of self awareness, or self observation, we can bring the activity of the unconsciousness into our consciousness. Once you stop dreaming on a level of the subconsciousness, you awaken that level. Likewise, there many degrees of awakening, related with the number 7.
If you stop "dreaming" during your vigilant hours, then by a natural consequence the process of dreams stops also at night. Then one is naturally awakened in the internal worlds. However this happens very slowly, in degrees, like how a tree transforms from a seed into a gigantic oak.
quote:
What I thought so far is that we need reasonably well developed chakras in order to be able to use the lighter bodies associated with those chakras. Is that wrong? Can anybody learn to astral travel just through one mantra meditation?
What you are stating is generally correct, when the chakras are fully opened then you possess many siddhis such as departing from the physical body. Yet there are many methods that will help in specifically this objective of astral projection. There are people who perform this mantra (FARAON) once and they have an experience. There are others that must work diligently for days, weeks, months, or years.
quote:
Our disciples must acquire the power of traveling with the Astral Body. This power is acquired by daily vocalizing for an hour the sacred mantra EGIPTO. The vowel “E” (sounded eh) makes the thyroid gland vibrate and grants unto the person the power of the occult ear. The “G” (as in good) awakens the chakra of the liver, and when this chakra has reached it complete development, the person can enter and depart from the physical body whenever it is wished. The “I” (sounded eee as in tree), when combined with the letter “P” develops unto the person clairvoyance and the power to leave in the Astral Body through the window of Brahma, which is the pineal gland. The letter “T” beats upon the vowel “O,” which is intimately related with the chakra of the heart. Thus, the human being can acquire the power in order to detach from this plexus and depart in the Astral Body.
The correct pronunciation of the mantra EGIPTO is as follows:
Eeeeeeeeeeeeggggggggiiiiiiiiipppptoooooooooo
Those who have not attained the capacity of departing in the Astral Body with other clues do not have that power. Then they must acquire this power firstly by vocalizing for one hour daily the mantra EGIPTO. This mantra completely develops the chakras related with the projection of the Astral Body. This is how the disciple acquires the power of astral projection. The disciple could then enter and leave the physical body at will.
The Egyptian mantra that is utilized in order to depart in the Astral Body is the following: FARAON. This mantra is vocalized in those instances of transition between vigil and dream, having the mind placed on the pyramids of Egypt.
The correct pronunciation of the mantra FARAON is as follows:
Faaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaoooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnn
This mantra is used in order to depart in the Astral Body, and as we have already stated, it is pronounced during the state of transition between vigil and dream and with the mind concentrated on the pyramids of the Egypt. Nonetheless, the disciples that do not have the power of departing with the Astral Body must firstly acquire it by vocalizing daily for one hour, as we have already mentioned, the mantra EGIPTO. - The Initiatic Path in the Arcana of Tarot and Kabbalah by Samael Aun Weor
Traveling in the Causal Body requires that one is awakened in the causal world. Before we can be awakened there we must awaken in the mental world. Before we can awaken there we must be awakened in the astral world. Before we can be awakened there, we must be awakened in the physical world. Not physically awake, but psychologically awake.
Therefore: Love not sleep, lest thou come to poverty; open thine eyes, and thou shalt be satisfied with bread. |
Edited by - Philip on Jan 05 2007 4:23:59 PM |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2007 : 4:28:56 PM
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Great post, Phillip. Another fount of wisdom:
VIL |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2007 : 8:23:09 PM
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Greetings Everyone!
"Our intense need to understand will always be a powerful stumbling block to our attempts to reach God in simple love, and must always be overcome. For if you do not overcome this need to understand, it will undermine your quest. It will replace the darkness which you have pierced to reach God, with clear images of something which, however good, however beautiful, however Godlike, is not God. So, therefore, never give up your resolve, but beat away at this cloud of unknowing between you and God with that sharp dart of longing love. And so I urge you, go after experience rather than knowledge. On account of pride, knowledge may often deceive you, but this gentle, loving affection will not deceive you. Knowledge tends to breed conceit, but love builds. Knowledge is full of labor, but love, full of rest."
From 'The Cloud of Unknowing'
Hari OM!
Doc |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2007 : 9:13:11 PM
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I really needed that, Doc. Good advice, like when Jim And His Karma said to just "relax".
Thanks again, to both of you:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Jan 06 2007 9:18:00 PM |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2007 : 04:02:47 AM
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Namaste VIL:
Glad you liked it.
The Real Strength and Greatest Power of True Knowledge (Gnosis) and Sacred Wisdom (Hagia Sophia) is most often found in profound simplicity. Less can actually be More! 
Thus, Quality of Knowledge, rather than Quantity of Knowledge, is the Master Key. As such, Illuminated Union with God through Spiritual Self-Cultivation always ciphers through an equation of subraction not addition!
Hari OM!
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Jan 07 2007 05:38:34 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2007 : 05:23:36 AM
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Hi Doc,
quote:
"Our intense need to understand will always be a powerful stumbling block to our attempts to reach God in simple love, and must always be overcome. For if you do not overcome this need to understand, it will undermine your quest. It will replace the darkness which you have pierced to reach God, with clear images of something which, however good, however beautiful, however Godlike, is not God. So, therefore, never give up your resolve, but beat away at this cloud of unknowing between you and God with that sharp dart of longing love. And so I urge you, go after experience rather than knowledge. On account of pride, knowledge may often deceive you, but this gentle, loving affection will not deceive you. Knowledge tends to breed conceit, but love builds. Knowledge is full of labor, but love, full of rest."
From 'The Cloud of Unknowing'
I agree, it is great to be reminded that experience is what really counts in the spiritual process, and that love is the most important thing. This is what all the greatest Gnostics have taught, especially Jesus of Nazareth. Many great Christians have taught this too, which helps us to see that there really is very little difference between the Gnostic teachings and the orthodox Christian teachings. We really need to strive to understand each other and rise beyond sectarian divisions here. It doesn't serve any of us, and, as Yogani said, can drive people away.
Personally I find it difficult to hold an intelligent conversation about something as deep as esoteric spirital practice, if you keep shouting "heritic" from the side-lines, every time someone's practices do not fall in line with your particular brand of Orthodox Christianity or Advaita Yogic views. There are many of us on this path, and we draw from many traditions. We cannot really judge another path until we have walked it.
Don't forget:
Tollerance
Love
"Judge not lest others should judge you" (anonymous Gnostic)
Christi
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2007 : 06:57:12 AM
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quote:
Christi: there really is very little difference between the Gnostic teachings and the orthodox Christian teachings. We really need to strive to understand each other and rise beyond sectarian divisions here. It doesn't serve any of us, and, as Yogani said, can drive people away.
It's funny that you should mention that, Christi, because we all have preconceived notions, biases, et al, and I remember having a conversation with my sister concerning Wicca, since she's really interested in this. And so she was questioning me, as to what I felt about it and I explained that I didn't have any interest in that. LOL. [I know better: ].
So, I was doing my regular research of various spiritual topics the other day and it just so happens that I stumbled on an amazing article from a woman that was really into witchcraft, magic, etc. Normally, I'd roll my eyes, but I decided to remove my blinders and really look from her perspective and see what she said about the topic I was researching. In all honesty, I was amazed at her depth of knowledge and understanding of spirituality. She gave me new perspective on subject matter that I really never considered, but was EXACTLY what I needed. Again, I was truly shocked at her wisdom and breadth of knowledge.
Anyway, It's amazing that we all create our comfort levels, put God in a box, and how often He'll let you know that he can't be contained, is unknowable, and will remain as so.
It's all about sincerity of purpose and spirituality has nothing to do with dogma. So much understanding is bipased, because we all think that one path is maybe a little greater than another. Or that maybe we have just a little more understanding than this person or that one. It was a beautiful lesson of humility. And the more I learn. The more I think I know. The less I really do.
When we realize this it brings us closer to each other. To me, that's true Oneness. To feel connected with people, to get rid of judgements and opinions.
Anyway, great post, Christi:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Jan 07 2007 08:56:08 AM |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2007 : 7:12:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi:
"I agree, it is great to be reminded that experience is what really counts in the spiritual process, and that love is the most important thing. Many great Christians have taught this too, which helps us to see that there really is very little difference between the Gnostic teachings and the orthodox Christian teachings. We cannot really judge another path until we have walked it."
'The Cloud of Unknowing' IS an example of Christian Mystical Writings, so its teachings obviously stem from the perspective of a Christian Spiritual Path and Practice.
Although your undoubtedly good intentions, Christi, and your attempted diplomacy, are both appreciated and admired, your opinion that "there is really very little difference between the Gnostic Teachings and the Orthodox Christian Teachings" is absolutely not true. While there may be some minor points of philosophical and theological agreement between the two, they remain quite different on the whole. This is particularly so in regards to what Christians view as the most fundamental theological issues...such as the Nature of God and the Trinity, the Divine Nature of Christ, the Reality of the Resurrection, and other crucial issues which define Christianity at its very core, and without a correct understanding of which....there can be no Christianity.
It is for this reason that I subject myself to your esteemed disapproval in order to confront those who 1) are not Christians, as this is generally understood to mean by the overwhelming majority of those who do profess to be Christians; and 2) insist nonetheless to proclaim their minority views and opinions as the most accurate and valid interpretations of Christianity. I would feel remiss not to address these issues.
Additionally, it is very interesting to be told that "we cannot really judge another path until we have walked it", yet this is exactly what I encounter ALL THE TIME! I am regularly told that alternate teachings on Christianity, from a wide variety of non-Christian 'authorities', should be accepted as the true explanation of Christianity and the person of Jesus, even though these so-called 'authorities' DO NOT follow a Christian Spiritual Path. They strive only to explain Jesus and His Teachings according to the alternate perspective of their own Spiritual Paths.
As an Ordained Clergyman, with extensive formal religious education required to serve as such, I feel very well suited to represent a Traditional Christian perspective on these issues. I have chosen do so for the sake of clarity, as few of those posting on this thread appear to have a solid Christian religious education, or a factual knowledge of Christian Church History. For the sake of fairness and equanimity, is it so unacceptable that even one lone voice should arise to speak authoritatively on behalf of mainstream Christianity?
Doc
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2007 : 12:30:36 PM
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Whereas I am neutral on the subject matter, I have to say great job on that last post, Doc. You stated your case very well, without trying to cut anyone else down to size.
So the sage is firm but not cutting,
Pointed but not piercing,
Straight but not rigid,
Bright but not blinding.
To govern men in accord with nature
It is best to be restrained;
Restraint makes agreement easy to attain,
And easy agreement builds harmonious relationships;
With sufficient harmony no resistance will arise;
When no resistance arises, then you possess the heart of the nation,
And when you possess the nation's heart, your influence will long endure:
Deeply rooted and firmly established.
This is the method of far sight and long life.
"Tao De Ching -- Lao Tzu " via Peter A. Merel
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 08 2007 12:31:36 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2007 : 1:19:27 PM
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Hi Doc:
quote:
'The Cloud of Unknowing' IS an example of Christian Mystical Writings, so its teachings obviously stem from the perspective of a Christian Spiritual Path and Practice.
I was aware that the Cloud of unknowing is a Christian writing. I was trying to point out that the quote you used would be equally applicable to both Gnostic Christianity and Orthodox Christianity. In fact it could easily have been written by a Gnostic Christian.
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Although your undoubtedly good intentions, Christi, and your attempted diplomacy, are both appreciated and admired, your opinion that "there is really very little difference between the Gnostic Teachings and the Orthodox Christian Teachings" is absolutely not true. While there may be some minor points of philosophical and theological agreement between the two, they remain quite different on the whole. This is particularly so in regards to what Christians view as the most fundamental theological issues...such as the Nature of God and the Trinity, the Divine Nature of Christ, the Reality of the Resurrection, and other crucial issues which define Christianity at its very core, and without a correct understanding of which....there can be no Christianity.
Well... if you are right here, then I would be simply astonished.
Gnostic Christians believe in the Divine nature of Christ, as do Orthodox Christians. Gnostics believe in the reality of the Resurrection, as do Orthodox Christians. In fact much of what Philip has quoted from above is based on teachings given by Jesus Christ to his disiples, after the resurection and is a Gnostic text.
Gnostic Christians and Orthodox Christians also both believe in the divine nature of God (the Logos) and in the Trinity. This is a quote from a Gnostic Christian website:
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The Logos has three aspects, known universally as the Trinity or Trimurti. The First Logos is the Father, Brahma. The Second Logos is the Son, Vishnu. The Third Logos is the Holy Spirit, Shiva. One who incarnates the Logos becomes a Logos.
So in terms of central Tennets of faith (if that is what you call them) i really do not see any real difference between Orthodox Christianity and Gnostic Christianity. I also do not see any essential differences in terms of praxis in either tradition.
Perhaps the confusion here is that you are reffering to a different school of Gnostic teachings than Philip is reffering to, as Philip pointed out above.
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Additionally, it is very interesting to be told that "we cannot really judge another path until we have walked it", yet this is exactly what I encounter ALL THE TIME! I am regularly told that alternate teachings on Christianity, from a wide variety of non-Christian 'authorities', should be accepted as the true explanation of Christianity and the person of Jesus, even though these so-called 'authorities' DO NOT follow a Christian Spiritual Path. They strive only to explain Jesus and His Teachings according to the alternate perspective of their own Spiritual Paths.
Just because other people do it to you, doesn't justify returning the insult. Whatever happened to "turn the other cheek"? (JC)
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As an Ordained Clergyman, with extensive formal religious education required to serve as such, I feel very well suited to represent a Traditional Christian perspective on these issues. I have chosen do so for the sake of clarity, as few of those posting on this thread appear to have a solid Christian religious education, or a factual knowledge of Christian Church History. For the sake of fairness and equanimity, is it so unacceptable that even one lone voice should arise to speak authoritatively on behalf of mainstream Christianity?
Pointing something out for the sake of clarity is one thing, and personally I welcome it, as long as it is done in an appropriate manner. Continually bashing someone over the head with a bible is another thing, and is (in my opinion) a form of unnecessary violence.
Christi
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Philip
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2007 : 3:38:17 PM
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There is multitude of different traditions that use the word "Gnostic," both historically and today. The differences between these groups varies significantly. It would, therefore, be incorrect to assume exactly what I understand to be the gnosis of something if I have not yet expressed it specifically. I have already clearly stated that many of things I am speaking of here opposes the view expressed by many (most) religions. If someone wants to further that point it is not of my concern, except to clarify any misconceptions as to what exactly I am stating.
What I understand 'gnosis' to be is that universal root wisdom upon which all forms of religion have their basis.
If all religions are pearls strung on the golden thread of divinity, then gnosis is the same golden thread.
I understand Gnostic Christianity as taught by "Jesus" is the most potent and synthesized form of religion that has be expressed on Earth. Nevertheless, the physical presence of such a sect has always been hidden, yet, partially diluted, divulged and mutilated by the good intentions of men.
I understand that the same principles exist in all religions, namely the Christ principle.
I understand the Christ principle to be the Ray of Light that emanates from the Absolute Abstract Space through supreme and absolute sacrifice, for love of the world.
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The teachings of the Zend Avesta are in accordance with the doctrinal principles contained in the Egyptian book of the dead, and contain the Christ-principle. The Illiad of Homer, the Hebrew Bible, the Germanic Edda and the Sibylline Books of the Romans contain the same Christ-principle. All these are sufficient in order to demonstrate that Christ is anterior to Jesus of Nazareth. Christ is not one individual alone. Christ is a cosmic principle that we must assimilate within our own physical, psychic, somatic and spiritual nature…
Among the Persians, Christ is Ormuz, Ahura Mazda, terrible enemy of Ahriman (Satan), which we carry within us. Amongst the Hindus, Krishna is Christ; thus, the gospel of Krishna is very similar to that of Jesus of Nazareth. Among the Egyptians, Christ is Osiris and whosoever incarnated him was in fact an Osirified One. Amongst the Chinese, the Cosmic Christ is Fu Hi, who composed the I-Ching (The Book of Laws) and who nominated Dragon Ministers. Among the Greeks, Christ is called Zeus, Jupiter, the Father of the Gods. Among the Aztecs, Christ is Quetzalcoatl, the Mexican Christ. In the Germanic Edda, Baldur is the Christ who was assassinated by Hodur, God of War, with an arrow made from a twig of mistletoe, etc. In like manner, we can cite the Cosmic Christ within thousands of ancient texts and old traditions which hail from millions of years before Jesus. The whole of this invites us to embrace that Christ is a cosmic principle contained within the essential principles of all religions.
– Samael Aun Weor, The Perfect Matrimony
I understand that Jesus purposefully played out the Christic Drama, giving a public teaching through his very life.
I understand that not only did Jesus die and resurrect, but many have done so, and indeed is a matter of necessity in order to become a real "Christian," for only when one dies absolutely does Christ absolutely manifest within.
If Christ were electricity, then the many who have incarnated Him would be the many different types of bulbs that exist: some are low wattage, some are high wattage, some produce a muffled light, some produce a very clear light. Additionally, different bulbs are needed for the requirements of the development of different parts of humanity.
As I stated before, John inwardly represents the interior Master, the Atman, the Innermost, Chesed. He was the prophet Elijah, which is pronounced like EL-IAO in Hebrew. So, the interior John is the messenger to the interior IAO, the interior Christ.
John is I.E.O.U.A.N., or better said: IEOUAMS (Seven Letters, related with the Seven Churches or Chakras), representing the "seven-fold" spirit of man in Revelation. This is the complete man.
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6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light (Christ), that all men (a real IEOUAMS) through him (Christ) might believe.
8He (John, IEOUAMS) was not that Light (Christ), but was sent to bear witness of that Light (through the incarnation of Christ).
9That was the true Light (Christ), which lighteth every man (IEOUAMS) that cometh into the world.
10He was in the world (of our subconscious), and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not (because the darkness, our sub/un/infraconsciousness does not understand the light, Christ).
11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12But as many as received (incarnated) him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
-John 1
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his Seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. - John 3:9
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. - Galatians 3:16
I understand that Jesus was not the only Son of God. There are many Sons of God, because they are one with the One Son of God which is Christ. The Sons of God are those that have incarnated the Cosmic Christ: those that have been born again, born of God, through the science of alchemy, changing water (sexual energy) into wine (that which gives god-intoxication: rapture, satori, samadhi, etc.), which is sexual transmutation.
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"Much has been stated about the Hierophant Jesus, however, the fact is that nobody knows his personal biography. The tendency to castrate the Hierophant Jesus exists. The Christian sects depict an infrasexual Jesus, effeminate, weak; yet at times angry, like a whimsical woman. Naturally, all of this is absurd. The fact is that nobody knows the personal life of Jesus, because we do not have his biography. Only with the faculties of objective clairvoyance can we study the life of Jesus in the Akasic Records of Nature...
We know the life of the Great Master and we know that Jesus was really a complete man in the fullest sense of the word. Jesus had a priestess wife, because he was not an infrasexual. The wife of Jesus was evidently a complete Lady Adept, endowed with great secret powers. Jesus traveled through Europe and was a member of a Mediterranean Mystery School. Jesus studied in Egypt and practiced Sexual Magic with his priestess inside one of the pyramids. That is how he recapitulated the initiations and later achieved the Venustic Initiation. Jesus traveled through Persia, India, etc. Thus, the Great Master was a Master in the most complete sense of the word. Jesus lived the drama of the Passion; nonetheless, he was not the only one who has lived it. Prior to him, some Initiates like Hermes, Quetzalcoatl, Krishna, Orpheus, Buddha etc., lived it. After Him, a few others have lived it. The drama of the Passion is cosmic...
Jesus was a complete man. Jesus was not the castrated one who many religions depicted. Jesus followed the Path of the Perfect Matrimony. Jesus formed the Christ within himself by practicing Sexual Magic with his wife. What we are stating will shock fanatics... - The Perfect Matrimony
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Edited by - Philip on Jan 08 2007 3:41:15 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2007 : 5:53:52 PM
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Samael Aun Weor said:
Jesus studied in Egypt and practiced Sexual Magic with his priestess inside one of the pyramids.
Philip, how does Samael Aun Weor purport to know this?
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Kabbalah, Gnosticism and Christianity
