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Anthem
1608 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 16 2006 : 9:22:26 PM
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I guess I am conducting an informal survey, I was wondering where people here stand on the truth?
Hopefully everyone will feel comfortable speaking freely about how they feel about speaking the truth. Do you ever not tell the truth in any situation? Do you ever tell a "white lie"? Do you ever refrain from telling people how you really feel when they ask, because maybe you are afraid to hurt them?
On the other side of the coin, do you feel compelled to tell people the truth about them as you see it even when they don't ask? Maybe you see instances when you feel the truth would help them?
Since a young age I have had an obsession with the truth. I always want to know the truth of things even if it is unpleasant. I personally try my best to never speak a word that isn't true. I have only recently been able to accept when people lie without being overly bothered by it.
I think the truth is a big part of the path in yoga and was wondering how others felt about it and thought it might be a fun topic. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2006 : 10:16:04 PM
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Yes, i also have held honesty as a priority in my life ever since I was little. And now I see a lot of people who don't.
But now as I have matured I also understand the truth a lot differently than I did when I was young. And often when I know something about someone that I feel would help them, I am very careful about how I present it to them, and do my "homework" on that person before I ever mention it.
Why do I go to so much trouble? Because over the years I have learned that the time and place must be perfect before someone will accept information. i know this from giving people information many times and having it rejected immediately, and no convincing did any good.
So you have to watch that person and see how they accept information first. sometimes you have to give it in little bits for them to digest, each little piece waiting for the proper time.
Another thing I have learned is that "truth" is very relative, and someting that you wholeheartedly believe to be the truth is not so for someone else.
How can that be?
Because words have different meanings to different people depending on what stage in spiritual evolution they are in and what their experiences are in this life.
Therefore, anything that is an "absolute" truth cannot be very well expressed in words. And spiritual truths, often found in old scriptures, need to be contemplated one line at a time, with a lot of time spent, to fully understand them.
And one more thing: just because you have information that you feel is important and other people don't know it, isn't enough reason to give it to people.
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Edited by - Etherfish on Dec 16 2006 10:19:19 PM |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2006 : 05:09:46 AM
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I go very much along with Etherfish (thanks, you wrote that very nicely).
As for telling "white lies": currently my feeling is to refrain from
telling "white lies", better to keep my mouth shut in such a situation.
Or better to say to the person, that I don't know for sure.
Feeling afraid of hurting somebody by telling them what I perceive to be
the truth: best would probably be to really make sure that this person
does not take it as a personal attack. So I would tell something like:
"Hey, listen, may be I am completely wrong with this, but my personal
opinion is this: ...blah, blah blah ... and I personally feel that
you are ... this and that ..."
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2006 : 05:43:01 AM
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I have always seen myself as being very truthful, but since I started with Katie's The Work I am not so sure any more. :D
I also very much agree with Ether, but I feel it depends on which level the truth is on. My experience in my pre-spiritual life was that I was often very frank and open with everything both ways (telling about myself, telling others about what I see). Sometimes at the cost of hurting people. I have learned along the way to shut up about some things I see and know about people. On the other hand, due to my psychological training I was right so many times and could actually help people, so they often came to me because they knew that they would hear the truth from me, even unpleasant things. This is the case nowadays as well. I seem to have the ability to make even strangers open up after only a few minutes. They start telling me about their lives and problems and I am often able to shed light on stuff. It is most often only a matter of telling the truth without a moralistic or blaming flavour to it, then it often lands the way it should, seldom causing anger or defense.
With spiritual matters it is another case. I can not lie about things I know or deny that I know it if I am in a situation where the matter is discussed. I just try to sneak away by saying something neutral if it feels very inappropriate. However, sometimes I just get "connected" and go into deep breathing and is just a channel of whatever comes out of my mouth. But that does not feel as if it is my decision.
Telling how I feel when someone asks is tricky - our social norms says we should just say "fine" on the question "how are you". People who answer "Oh, I got headache etc..." is not so popular. Those lies I just let pass by.
I don't think I bother so much about others lying about practical things or daily life issues. I am more troubled with my own in that case. *blushing* But when it comes to personal lying, lying to oneself and others, trying to hide important and sometimes crucial facts about oneself to another person can bother me (since I am into self-inquiry and is obsessed with finding my own inner truth). I see the falseness coming out of it and react on that. On the other hand, it is non of my business, so I try not to dwell on such things. Yet, one may come in difficult situations sometimes, like when you know your best friends partner is cheating on her... What should you do with that truth? You do not want your friend to be deceived, but you may cause a lot of pain to both of them if you tell. The truth and power is yours. A dilemma I have been in several times...
My motto has always been:
The truth is hard to take and may cause you pain, but lies hurt like salt in a wound and is utterly destructive.
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2006 : 07:49:18 AM
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I used to be big on telling the "truth" as I saw it. The more I got to know myself the more lies I saw in the way I live my life and in the masks I present to other people.
I think the "truth" is alway my/your truth, there is always judgement involved, so in order to act on what is perceived as the truth there must first be an element of compassion for all involved. If we act in an emotionaly reactive way, it is an indication that we need first to look at ourselves with some self inquiry.
I would like to think, the older I get the less lies I tell myself and consequently the more honest I am with other people.
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Edited by - Sparkle on Dec 18 2006 05:26:37 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2006 : 10:54:35 AM
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I too have always been the kind of person who told people the blunt truth. Most of my teachers did not like me because of this . Most of my friends love me for this, they know, there is one place you can go and ask for the truth and that is what you will get. Most of my clients will ask me stuff before anyone else, because they know I will give them the facts.. not a run-around and a way for my company to make more money.. so.. my boss tries to keep the new ones away from me ...
Very early in my life I did learn, not to tell people the truth.. not unless they asked for it. That way.. you generally don't hurt anyone. And even the ones you do hurt.. because not many are ready to hear the truth.. may never tell you, but in some way are grateful for the truth.
Also what most of you have said above.. truth is relative, what you believe to be the absolute truth today may be meaningless tomorrow. Also, what is the truth to you, may not be anyone else's truth.
It's funny your brought this topic up now Andrew.. I have seen, I go through phases when similar questions/situations come into my life at the same time.. Few days back I was doing the inner child visualizing.. I got a truth from one of them that really took me by surprise...
"She said, "You have lied.. always lied about everything".. I said, "true, I am trying to change that". She said, "Lying did not help me.. it is not required".. I said, "I have no answer for this one.. I am trying to change.. not tell a lie.. it is so unnecessary... "
Once it was over, I sat wondering what she meant by it.. and what I meant by my answer to her.. I don't lie.. I am a sincere believer in telling the truth.. or am I  ?
I don't think I have been honest to myself. I have always changed stories in my head to justify my truth. So is that lying? How many times have I justified a situation by lying to myself and my mind changing a story.. changing a truth .. just to satisfy itself.. How many times has the truth changed in my mind.. because it fits my life sooo well at this point.
Then what did my answer mean.. I did not understand my own answer.. till I read what EMC wrote above.. Inquiry.. that is what I meant by I am trying.. I have been into inquiry big time over the last year.. and so many of my firmly believed truths have faded away.. I try my best not to form opinions and judgments about things anymore.. all of them have changed over time.. Not that I don't still have opinions and beliefs.. but I am flexible and ready to accept another truth if it shows up at my face. Not that I dont inadvertently judge people, but I have found myself stopping and inquiring into it.
I am at a point (till it changes again..) where I don't really know what the truth is anymore. The only truth there is, is reality.. here.. right now.. everything else is just in our heads and constantly changing. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2006 : 12:20:12 PM
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I agree with Shanti about the truth constantly changing.
and we do tell lies to ourselves all the time, but I wouldn't call them lies.
What we do is re-affirm our belief systems. For example, let's say that there are an equal number of houses of every possible color. but your belief is that there are more white houses than any other color. Every time you pass a white house, without any conscious effort, a little voice inside says "another white one; that confirms my belief." This makes it possible to believe anything, thus the diversity of beliefs in the world. It's a method of "owning" things that cannot be owned, but it is necessary in order to make sense out of chaos. If we didn't exclude most of the information coming our way through our senses, we wouldn't be able to function normally. As we learn to voluntarily turn off the value judgements in order to "be here now", we still have to know how to turn them back on in order to communicate.
On another note, there are rare times when I will "lie" to people, although I don't consider it a lie.
For instance, when somebody insists on some personal information that is none of their business, and they refuse to stop prying when told it's none of their business, sometimes I tell them a lie to shut them up and make them go away. i hope you know what I mean as that's a long story in itself. It has to do with people judging you.
The other case is when I know what that person will do with the information, and their intent is to hurt someone else. I will tell them a lie that stops them from hurting that person. of course this has to be when there is no personal gain to be had. some people like to gather ammunition to add to their hate of someone, so I won't give it to them. Often if you give them a lie that makes that person look better, they will back off, and forget it. Then in the very rare case that you are confronted with the lie later, you apologize and say you were wrong.
Why would i manipulate the truth in these cases? Because of people misunderstanding each other's words.
i'll explain in an over-simplified manner:
Let's say your favorite color is blue, but the mention of the word blue makes Johnny sick. But Johnny thinks that things that are blue to you are actually called "red". So when Johnny asks you what your favorite color is, you "lie" and say "red".
About telling someone their lover is cheating on them: I too have run into this situation several times. Once I just plain told the wife, because she was the best person in the world and didn't deserve it. She left the guy, remarried, and is with a great guy now.
But usually i keep my mouth shut. The problem is, the bond between lovers is stronger than that between friends. If you drive any kind of wedge between lovers, you will often be hated by both of them even if you were in the right.
If you are closer to one lover than her mate, you probably don't know the whole truth, and it's best to keep quiet. I have a friend who cheats on her mate all the time, but I would never tell. At first I hated her for this, but now we are the best of friends, and it is never brought up. I think she will someday be destroyed by this, but I will not be involved. She says her mate probably does it too, and she doesn't care. I don't know if this is true, and choose to stay out of it. Whenever we discuss the subject i let her know how I feel, and leave it at that. |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2006 : 12:59:59 PM
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Hi peoples
Like everything else the truth seems to be made of infinite layers. I seem to be just now opening to the truth. It is hard to allow everything I thought I was be completely exposed. It is interesting to see how everyone around me(self included)lives in a shadowland between truth and the silliness and sadness of little lies. The truth is that there are lies that people mask themselves with to avoid pain. In doing so we live in a place of constant pain. Opening to the truth becomes a raw and exposing necessity to freedom.
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Edited by - Balance on Dec 17 2006 1:07:06 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2006 : 4:12:47 PM
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| Nicely said Alan. . |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Dec 18 2006 : 2:32:09 PM
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| I'm not very opinionated, so that helps in both the pursuit of truth and the avoidance of it depending on my mood. |
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Sonali
India
8 Posts |
Posted - Dec 19 2006 : 06:42:17 AM
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I agree with Etherfish. I tell the truth but with a lot of caveats - when asked directly, when it doesn't hurt someone, and especially when it helps them even if costs something to me personally. I also look at whether the person is ready to listen to the truth and is practical. Its amazing how often when you can hurt rather than help by telling something that a person doesnt want to hear. Here is a story - a friend of mine was having huge problems with her husband, and she was in a difficult pregnancy. A friend of hers at work told her the truth that she probably needed to walk out of the marriage and that her husband was horrible ,an abuser and could hurt her child. While she was not ready to leave her husband she constantly panicked, questioned everything he did even the most innocent actions and it caused a lot of harm because she felt alone and attacked and pregnant. She lost that baby but now has another and the husband and wife have worked out their differences.
The flip side is I had another friend who was with the wrong group into drugs and such and when he was joining them. I had to tell the truth and ask him to end that friendship and it nearly cost us ours. In fact it cost me more because I lost some other friends from that group because I refused to let this person get into drugs to be in. Today 5 years later he moved on to be a successful person in his career and is very grateful for the truth.
A lot of these 'truths' as someone said are very often based on our beliefs and experiences. I do think though that its important to be honest and not lie. I am not sure I always tell the truth but I definitely try not to lie. I am not afraid to tell someone what I think but I am afraid that this will hurt more than help. And I think that is more important because in a relationship when you ask someone the truth and they lie or even without asking they lie then the whole relationship is in jeapordy because when you found the person lied you can never trust that person again. |
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The whole truth?
