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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 09 2006 : 1:19:53 PM
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I don't think we can use IQ levels to measure intelligence. The tests are really a measure of our ability to reason and to use our rational mind to solve problems. I remember something that Ram Das said about the rational mind. He said that it is only a subset, of a subset of the whole of our consciousness, and not even an interesting way to know the universe. I have often wondered what intelligence is. I remember when I was at school someone said to me that you need to be very intelligent to become a university professor. Then they added that if someone is really intelligent they would make sure that the last place they ended up working in was a university.
This got me thinking. If someone was really intelligent what would they actually do? What is the real mark of an intelligent person?
Love and light
Christi |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2006 : 2:12:11 PM
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2006 : 2:40:07 PM
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Ranger said:
Odds are in our culture it's almost impossible to think of it apart from IQ.
That's an unfortunate artifact, partly of language. I find it best to make a distinction between what some scientists call 'g-factor' (which is what is measured by IQ tests) and 'intelligence' which is quite a bit more broad. But there's no doubt that g-factor is a very important contributor to intelligence, and it serves in so many ways, not all of them obvious.
It's normal for discussions on 'intelligence' to contain an element of politics (though people don't recognize immediately or easily that they are actually thinking *politically*). When thought is political, favorable attributes may appear to be in competition, and people may tend to put one down as if to favor another, when they are in fact complementary parts of a whole. Was Ram Dass being a bit political in this way? Perhaps. One thing is for sure, he's wrong in that the rational mind is an extremely interesting way to know the universe.
Many people don't realize why g-factor is so important precisely because they have enough of it themselves. It's like the middle-class saying that money is useless.
It's common for an anecdote to come up of people with high IQ going off the rails. Well, you might as well have anecdotes of rich people, or physically beautiful people, or great athletes, or great comedians, or great artists, or great musicians, or.... going off the rails, to be topped off with "see what good it did them"!
And indeed, same with people with yogic gifts who go off the rails! See what good it did them! 
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Nov 09 2006 2:42:55 PM |
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Neesha
215 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2006 : 3:49:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by comdyne
What's up with that???? Yoga practioners seem to make all sorts of mistakes with increasing practice. Input anyone???
Yes this sort of happened to me also
I experienced lots of mistakes while writing on the whiteboard
it's almost as if I think faster than I write so I would misspell words.....not that I am a bad speller....most of the times its just a typo....
but multitasking used to be the norm for me .........until I realised I started picking up other people's vibrations and it still affects me so badly...
I cannot concentrate when a negative person or a person with negativity is around me.......
sometimes I have to leave the lecture hall and say a prayer
most times when writing I miss out entire words...this never used to happen before.....then again it is only human to err
anyway being more aware of things puts a greater pressure on my head
after lots of AYP practice I eventually eased things down a bit....but if I don't watch myself its easy to return to that state |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2006 : 5:36:36 PM
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Hi David,
quote:
David wrote:
Was Ram Dass being a bit political in this way? Perhaps. One thing is for sure, he's wrong in that the rational mind is an extremely interesting way to know the universe.
Definately Ram Das was being political... as I'm sure you know, he was making a case for acid taking and yogic devotional practice, when both were pretty new (and somewhat frowned on) in the west. I imagine he was also talking a bit toung-in-cheek, as he used to be a Harvard professor. Probably it would have been better (less political) if he had said that the rational mind is only one extremely interesting way of knowing the universe.
I was really quoting him a little out of context . Sorry
I know that most people don't believe in angels, (I don't know if the same applies to people in this forum) and I hope it doesn't annoy anyone if I bring them up in this conversation, but one of the things I have noticed about angels, is that they do not seem to have a rational aspect to their minds. I am sure someone here will correct me if I am wrong about this. Angels seem to me to be highly intelligent beings that are capable of communication on an advanced level (through merging their consciousness/ energy body with the being they are communing with), capable of travel almost at the speed of thought, and yet they do not seem to 'think', 'rationalize', 'employ critical reasoning', 'debate', or anything else that we would associate with the rational mind. I am not saying that humans do not need rational abilities as part of the functioing of our intelligence, only that perhaps the rational mind is not necessary in order for a being to display intelligence (even at levels more advanced than the human)?.
Love and Light
Christi |
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n/a
26 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2006 : 6:49:42 PM
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Wow. Glad to see all the input here from everyone while I was away. Thanks for your contributions. 
comdyne |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Mar 31 2011 : 3:23:02 PM
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Just made an IQ test. I flunked all but one rather simple logical-mathematical task. Also, I could not find the anagrams of words and got a serious headache from watching series of patterns.
I have had top grades in maths and statistics - I'm a former researcher... and I've also been a former Scrabble player, playing at elite level, competing.
The test should have been a piece of cake. But it was almost painful to feel how the brain tried to work during the test...
I have more and more trouble finding words when speaking. I hear myself say absolutely ridiculous sentences, using set phrases totally wrong, mixing them up etc. The students fill me in on words nowadays...
If this is a purification phase it's been going on since 2006 - and getting worse.
Hopefully, I will not need to serve using that kind of cognitive intelligence any more. |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Mar 31 2011 : 6:44:59 PM
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| Peoples of native cultures find it hard to read if they were not brought up in letters. They see in wide angle vision and focusing in a narrow range is difficult. Meditation is like this wide angle vision. It is okay not to be stuck in a narrow range of thought. There is a cost to being a yogi. The benefits are incalculable. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 31 2011 : 7:28:21 PM
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I have heard that the general IQ of the population is gradually increasing. But IQ may be grossly over-rated. People are using computers more and more. More and more children are dropping out of school in the US, but playing video games more. Computers could score very high on an IQ test. Go figure.
Remember IQ tests are made by people with brains. Who are they to say what intelligence is of value?
I do troubleshooting of complex electrical problems, and I often solve problems that several other people have not been able to. I use more intuition than I do logic. That would not show up on a test. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Mar 31 2011 : 10:50:06 PM
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Hi emc,
I hope all is well!
You can find a lot of studies that point to higher IQ from meditating if you google it. As for purification, that may be one thing but I can tell you that in my experience, that thoughts of it (any cognitive process) can be a powerful contributor too.
So for starters, I have experienced periods where the brain seems to be in the process of functioning differently in some area and that there is a transition from the old to the new. I recently went through that with communication in general and the outcome seems to be favourable. The transition faze, not so fun...lol.
In regards to how thoughts can sometimes impact these matters of the brain, for a sustained period of time over the last couple of years, I noticed that I seemed to be much less sharp in the memory department than usual. At some point I noticed that when trying to recall, my brain would first "visit" the thought of not remembering. Even if it was for only a micro second, that "visit" was enough to bring fourth the corresponding feelings of the experience of not being able to recall. This would cause a slight delay before my brain would then continue on to actually pulling up the information I initially was looking for. So I went from 1- saying internally something like, "what was that person's name" to 2- thinking "oh I can't remember" and feeling frustrated to then 3- actually searching for the info. A little unnecessary side trip there in the middle.
Eventually after doing inquiry on that thought "I can't remember" and variations of it, I noticed the mind stopped making that side trip. Recently memory has been very sharp and another curious outcome of likely a purification period ending, is that now the information I want to know, names, things that have happened etc. are just there. They just pop up if I trust them. So the worry had been impeding the performance and have noticed this many times on many levels.
Just sharing for whatever it's worth.
All the best!
A
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2011 : 05:13:24 AM
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I'm not questioning the benefits of meditation on clarity and cognitive skills in general. I'm just reporting it doesn't happen here as time proceeds. Might be a "mind creates reality" case, and my thoughts and beliefs create the situation. If so, it will sort itself out eventually. Or not. And that will also be ok.
I'm happy it seems to work fine for others. |
Edited by - emc on Apr 01 2011 06:26:54 AM |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2011 : 6:09:56 PM
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Hello emc 
Just a thought from someone who is NOT a brain specialist. Or a yoga specialist, for that matter 
But I believe meditation is shifting my brain function from being left-brain dominant to more right-brain dominant. Or more balanced, perhaps. Language, especially written language, is more of a left brain activity. So is logic.
Sometimes words are so foreign to me. When I look at a huge block of text, my mind just shuts off sometimes and I can't process what's being said.
But my creativity, intuition, emotional capacity, and ability to live in the present moment have all increased. Words flow much easier when it's a creative pursuit, rather than a technical one. Like Ether, I also do "left-brain" activities (like computer programming) from intuition rather than logic.
I don't know if this is what you're going through, but I wouldn't be surprised if the IQ test favors left-brain intelligence. Considering that our whole society and education system favor the left brain.
This could all be wrong. But intelligence is so vast in scope, I doubt an IQ test has been created that can truly measure it. I hope you do not feel discouraged.
With Love
cosmic |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2011 : 7:21:11 PM
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Yes absolutely IQ is more left brain favored. But of course, the brain is not divided that simply, except for operating the left and right sides of the body, which are opposite in the brain.
And I agree with Anthem that there is a transition. I went through years of feeling like an idiot (but not caring) and when I had to do business at work I would have to cram before I talked to the boss so I looked intelligent.
But now, although there is a little preparation, I sometimes surprise myself with intelligent, fact-filled statements that are said quickly.
I don't know where that comes from, because I don't think quickly like that in general when it comes to words.
Another possibility is that we all are changing. There is quite a bit of theorizing on the net about "the ascension", and spiritual or cosmic energy going through us and changing our DNA. Some of the crop circles even seem to be messages about DNA changes. Scientists used to think that DNA didn't change over the short term. But recently they have found cases where it does (in animals anyway). It's evolution when that happens.
If you're interested in this subject, see David Wilcock on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEyqT2_ricA |
Edited by - Etherfish on Apr 01 2011 7:28:25 PM |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2011 : 06:37:57 AM
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IMO, quite instrumental to discuss this on Apr 1st because IQ is like quicksand. Tasks like language, music, or sense of direction activate both brainhalves, so on one hand, meditation rewiring the brain into more "right-halved" probably doesn't change the total, except for an improved R-L balance. Some tests also indicate improved cognitive abilities among meditators.
Detachment on the other hand is much more tricky, as consciously manipulating & reorganizing things or thoughts no longer is the meaning of life; I get round the risk of de-motivation when I work for pure job satisfaction as opposed to achievements or excellence defined by others. That is, the same thoughts become less "important" but they remain interesting. The feeling of Flow is similar to happiness: if genuine, it comes from within.
Any external ceremony stuff (appreciation, promotion, awards, pay hikes etc.) may help you stay on track when you're a promising junior, but a master probably prefers to (say, on the day after an award) go straight to the same workplace and continue the same work.
My 2 cents.
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2011 : 09:46:59 AM
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If kundalini becomes rooted in Sahasrara (crown) prematurely, yes, there is brain damage.
Also, the first thing that kundalini does in the brain, after fixing the brain stem (the center of the
autonomic nervous system) is to get busy with the left frontal lobe (the conscious rational mind).
In that reorganization, some things are lost.
Of course Kundalini is a highly personal experiene, like all other things pertaining to consciousness;
I'm merely speaking of the norm for the many people who have experienced this phenomenon.
It's also possible, due to the extreme freedom gained, to become "lazy in your enlightenment".
So indeed, it is possible and even likely, for a time at least, to have changes to ones intelligence
level and ability to apply onseself in the world.
This is why self-pacing is so important.
-Kevin Cann |
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Intelligence drop with yoga?????
