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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 18 2016 : 12:58:05 PM
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I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who's been experimenting with willing themselves into a sleep state. Not lucid dreaming, not yoga nidra. Just conventional sleep, achieved on-demand via targeted peeling away of thoughts, thought process (including the "peeling away" process!) and layers of waking consciousness....i.e. inhibitions re: the non-linear drift state which gives rise to sleep.
I'd be less interested in hearing "theories" about this (everyone sleeps, obviously, so everyone has two cents to kick in) than in hearing from people who've been specifically working on this.
I'd also like to avoid discussion of how this relates to meditation and other practices. That's why I'm posting this to "Other Systems". So....just this one narrow area of discussion, if you'd please.
I'll kick in my own observations if anyone out there wants to share.
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Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Apr 18 2016 12:59:36 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2016 : 2:48:09 PM
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I had some spare time, so I typed up some of my findings:
In terms of muscular tension, I no longer spend time progressively relaxing all body parts. I’ve come to know the three parts where I localize tension (note: I’m a lifelong hatha yogi, and, at age 53, I only now know where all my body stress concentrates; it’s VERY hard to know this, so don’t assume you do!), and I 1. link them together in my imagination, and 2. share the “tension" generously with the universe (recognizing it as nothing but stored-up ardent love), with no desire for any given result.
On another level, I let all my thoughts - and my cognition apparatus itself - drain into my pillow. I’ve decided I’m civilizing my pillow. In a few years, it may become sentient!
When a disruptive thought pops up, I don't try to squash the thought. Instead, I inhabit the space the thought came from - the "recoil”, if you will. I pay no attention to the specifics of the thought; I just recognize they spring from a deep, general sense of needfulness, and the needfulness deserves the attention, not the specific content of the thought (the “yadda yadda”). The self-soothing attention I apply to generalized little wisps of needfulness is non-verbal, and feels like love, so it fosters (rather than hinders) sleep.
Same for sounds. I live next to a construction project, and must sleep through incredible noise. I don’t direct my attention to the noise; I direct my attention to the part of me which reacts to the noise. I don’t soothe my reaction to the hammer strikes, I soothe the part that compulsively tries to hold on to the hammer strikes. It’s deeper than the noise; it precedes the noise.
Question: did reading this make you sleepy? I’m nearly comatose just typing it…..
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2016 : 4:20:12 PM
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Hi Jim and His Karma,
Chasing two rambunctious boys makes me pass out as soon as I hit the pillow.  Thanks for sharing, enjoyed reading it.
quote:
Question: did reading this make you sleepy? I’m nearly comatose just typing it…..
No. But, parents of young kids know they can use a nap anytime. 
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2016 : 5:23:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
Question: did reading this make you sleepy? I’m nearly comatose just typing it…..
Curiously, yes, for no reason that I can think of, because I find your post interesting reading. Did you mix a sedative in the text? |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2016 : 10:29:59 PM
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quote:
I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who's been experimenting with willing themselves into a sleep state. Not lucid dreaming, not yoga nidra. Just conventional sleep, achieved on-demand via targeted peeling away of thoughts, thought process (including the "peeling away" process!) and layers of waking consciousness....i.e. inhibitions re: the non-linear drift state which gives rise to sleep.
As my head hits the pillow and I close my eyes, it feels like I am a seltzer tablet dropped into a glass of water, consciousness slowly bubbling away, surrendering. If this observation doesn't do the trick within five or so minutes, I put awareness on the cadence of my breathing so that it mimics the cadence of a deep sleep. That usually seals the deal. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2016 : 02:23:02 AM
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Dear Jim,
I find if I place my awareness in the central part of the third-eye, not focusing between the eye-brow, but really the centre of the brain, I will drop into deep, deep sleep within seconds. It's like switching off the lights. I'm a dot and then I'm gone.
Sey  |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Apr 21 2016 : 03:21:18 AM
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I never had sleeping problems. My goal to was to catch the edge, sleep, awake, sleep. It's interesting to go from the physical to the subtle and to be aware of sleep, body and breath. I don't say I know much, I am not a scientist, just know this body a bit, the chakras and how to connect with parts of this body and mind. Imagination does a great deal in letting go tension in body parts. Imagination is important to get to know the subtle energy, but then there comes a day that that there are no boundaries, we are the universe.
At this moment I leave it for what it is, experimenting and paying attention causes overload.
As soon as I close my eyes, I melt away in breath and energy, aware or not aware. Thanks for the question Jim, it made me curious on how to bring this to words.
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Domos
30 Posts |
Posted - May 19 2016 : 12:11:57 PM
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Are you interested in consciously falling asleep and staying conscious (through different sleep stages) or just consciously falling asleep to unsconsciousness? They're quite different. 1st is way harder than 2nd.
First lets know that best way to have insomnia is trying to fall asleep.
Everytime I used to try to consciously fall asleep, it didn't work.. until I realised that it's not something you do but something you allow to happen.
What I found out that works (but it's not easy to accomplish):
1 - Meditate/Practice every day until your natural level of awareness/lucidity is high enough in any sleepy or sleep state.
2 - Get yourself into that half-awake / half-asleep state (should be quite easy if you already practice meditation or lucid dreaming (WBTB methods)) OR go to bed only when you're SUPER SLEEPY (ex: hours later than you're used to)
3 - Consciously have the intent to fall asleep but don't think about it. Like a passive but active intention.
Now if you want to fall asleep and stay conscious you have to create some sort of anchor to your current level of lucidity (or wakefullness state), if you just want to fall asleep quickly unsconsciously, create a mental scenario (whatever you want, ex: going to sleep on the beach) that eventually you fall asleep on it (your focus goes from the physical foreground, non-physical background to non-physical foreground, physical background.
Don't make it too complex, or waste too much mental effort on the details, you must do it passively, like you don't really care about it and are not putting too much attention into it.
Always use the same mental rundown scenario and after a while (it starts hard, gets easier), when you go to sleep you just have to imagine your bed on the sand on that beach, go there, lay down, close your eyes and you're done. (like consciously falling asleep in 30 seconds).
Another way, which is even harder I'd say, is go to sleep very very tired everyday for 1-2 weeks (like on those days where you are so tired that you instantly fall asleep) and make sure you notice and remember the kind of mental "condition" you/your mind are in at that right moment as to be able to recreate it by sheer willpower on other ocasions.
Cheers! |
Edited by - Domos on May 19 2016 12:42:49 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2016 : 2:46:45 PM
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Domos,
Thanks for the interesting post, but I don't quite understand this: "your focus goes from the physical foreground, non-physical background to non-physical foreground, physical background."
Can you elaborate? |
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Domos
30 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2016 : 7:03:06 PM
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Your main focus of attention is on your physical senses (physical foreground), while your internal senses are currently in the background (non-physical background).
ex: when you fall asleep consciously, or you are dreaming, it's just a matter of switching up your main focus.
Making your physical senses in the background, while the internal senses in the foreground.
When you are lost in thought and someone asks you something and you reply :"ahh what? can you repeat please?"
in this situation, you were unconsciously using your internal senses as the foreground, while your physical senses were on the background, that's why you were actually "living" what you were thinking, semi-consciously, while at the same time you heard someone talking to you in the physical world (as your physical senses were not turned off but were on the background).
When you astral project or get out of your body, it's also the same. Reversing the focus of the senses.
When you are daydreaming or actually seeing what you are visualizing, it's a mix of the internal senses with the external senses (ex: looking at a door, you see the door with your eyes, but on the door you see a symbol, a golden Star of Davi, this was seen with your internal eye)
When you are deeply lucid dreaming, your physical senses are off, while you are using 100% of your internal senses.
If someone starts making a LOT of noise in your room, your physical senses will fire up and start to get active, they can even get active enough to wake you up (they would be going from inactive, to background awareness, to foreground awareness)
Hope I made sense.
Cheers |
Edited by - Domos on Jun 17 2016 7:08:47 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 7:13:33 PM
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Hi, Domos,
After years of meditation, I’m familiar with internal vs external focus. I was more wondering about this ordering:
quote:
from the physical foreground, non-physical background to non-physical foreground, physical background
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...rather than the more expected physical foreground, non-physical foreground, physical background, non-physical background. Maybe it's a typo?
Also, I'm unsure of how to apply intention while falling asleep. The practice of intention is well-entrenched from samyama (and other practices), so it's no problem to apply while awake. But falling asleep is characterized by thoughts dissolving into scattered streams of irrationality, so any intention I inject into that stream just gets lost in that swirl. It's a thought/image, rather than an intention.
When fully awake, I can release an intention at a more subtle level than my thought stream. But, in bed, the presence of mind required to shift "levels" instantly brings me right back from the brink of sleep, so the intention is coarse, not subtle. Please let me know if that's clear. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jun 19 2016 7:18:54 PM |
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Domos
30 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2016 : 12:56:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
Hi, Domos,
After years of meditation, I’m familiar with internal vs external focus. I was more wondering about this ordering:
quote:
from the physical foreground, non-physical background to non-physical foreground, physical background
.
...rather than the more expected physical foreground, non-physical foreground, physical background, non-physical background. Maybe it's a typo?
Also, I'm unsure of how to apply intention while falling asleep. The practice of intention is well-entrenched from samyama (and other practices), so it's no problem to apply while awake. But falling asleep is characterized by thoughts dissolving into scattered streams of irrationality, so any intention I inject into that stream just gets lost in that swirl. It's a thought/image, rather than an intention.
When fully awake, I can release an intention at a more subtle level than my thought stream. But, in bed, the presence of mind required to shift "levels" instantly brings me right back from the brink of sleep, so the intention is coarse, not subtle. Please let me know if that's clear.
Hi Jim, sorry for missing this topic.
Well, your answer is correct.
I haven't been "working" on this these days, but I tried to do it in the past.
Nowadays, I just will myself to that state that leads me to sleep and let go. I understand that it's not a proper "Practice of falling asleep achieved on-demand" though.
I "remember" how my body/mind is when I'm tired and about to fall asleep. I "chase" that "state" and I shift to it, the "near-sleep-mood" state, or as you call it, "the non-linear drift state which gives rise to sleep".
Then I let go and whatever thoughts appear I just let go and what happens is, just like you said, "thoughts dissolving into scattered streams of irrationality" which then leads to me falling asleep. It's actually much more simple than what I'm writing here, it sounds complicated, but no, it's just a switch to that "very sleep" familiar state and then a let go. Then in 1-5min you fall asleep.
(some people might get insomnia if they do this wrongly)
I know very young children can sleep on-the-go. They lay on the bed, and are sleeping in under 30 seconds, so it's possible.. |
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The Practice of Falling Asleep
