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snake
United Kingdom
279 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 17 2006 : 09:02:29 AM
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| Is deep meditation as taught in AYP exactly the same as TM apart from the mantra's used and the obvious personnel checking? |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2006 : 10:46:14 AM
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Hi Snake the short answer is yes it is. I did TM for years and the technique is the same, however the mantra I was given was nowhere near as effective as I AM. I only ever took the initial initiation with TM so I cant comment on the more advanced material that was available but I am sure AYP offers much more than TM ever did.
Richard
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2006 : 10:56:12 AM
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Hi Snake,
I first learned meditation from the TM organization.
As far as I know, the TM group taught no more than essentially two techniques, both of which are on the AYP menu: it's 'meditation', which is the same as AYP 'deep meditation', and the TM-Siddhi Program, which is basically samyama. (The TM 'Advanced Techniques' are just the 'mantra modifications').
Regards,
-D |
Edited by - david_obsidian on Sep 17 2006 11:12:14 AM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2006 : 11:58:25 AM
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Hi Snake,
They also taught Anulom vinom pranayama and certain hatha yoga techniques.
L&L
Dave |
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snake
United Kingdom
279 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2006 : 12:34:15 PM
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| thankyou for your replys |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2006 : 12:33:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by riptiz
Hi Snake,
They also taught Anulom vinom pranayama and certain hatha yoga techniques.
L&L
Dave
Well, depends on what you mean. TM taught some hatha yoga postures and practices as a matter of course on 'rounding courses' which were basically retreats. But these were always considered adjunct practices and were de-emphasized.
I forgot to mention the 'psychophysiological technique' but I think this one was never big. Maharishi also went on an experimental spree in the 70s and taught a number of techniques which he later dropped.
I believe the focus in TM was almost exclusively on meditation and samyama. No?
I'd love to be properly informed on this if I am mistaken.....
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Sep 18 2006 12:36:10 AM |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2006 : 05:13:54 AM
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Your right David just meditation and samyama as techniques. The first stage is where the mantra is given with a small ritual then the further stages get progressively more expensive the second and third ones are the mantra enhancements that's all. Then the prohibitively expensive sidhi course which is basically Samyama.I believe their way of teaching Samyama was slightly different especially in the way they used the akasha sutra, where we just touch the thought of akasha lightness of air they are told to imagine themselves light as cotton and floating in air to bring about the famous hopping.
Richard |
Edited by - Richard on Sep 18 2006 08:31:57 AM |
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Athma_Shakti
India
81 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2006 : 10:51:24 AM
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quote:
touch the thought of akasha lightness of air they are told to imagine themselves light as cotton and floating in air to bring about the famous hopping.
what if we make samyama on imaginary character like "superman"? i haven't tried it, just wanted to know, whether it will work or not LOL
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2006 : 11:40:48 AM
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Now be careful, or some folks are gonna get hopping mad! 
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Athma_Shakti
India
81 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2006 : 07:38:50 AM
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I don't know about TM, but i have seen in TV "yogic flying", but i don't see anyone flying, they are just jumping.
anyone practicsing TM had this "yogic flying" experience?
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quote:
david_obsidian: "Now be careful"
what's the warning is for?
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2006 : 07:54:04 AM
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"what if we make samyama on imaginary character like "superman"? i haven't tried it, just wanted to know, whether it will work or not LOL"
I think it's dangerous to put much energy into imaginary things. We each create our own reality by our thoughts and beliefs. Most people try to make these two coincide with the majority of other people, as this is what makes a harmonius society. The more your thoughts and beliefs diverge from society, the less you will be welcomed in it. If you cultivate beliefs that are completely rejected by society and yet you know them to be true, prepare yourself for complete rejection too. People can sense such things without knowing it.
I'm sure a little wouldn't hurt, although it's a side track from the true path. But I'm just warning you to watch how people react to you being around them, and if strangers start treating you badly for no apparent reason, you'll know the reason. |
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Athma_Shakti
India
81 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2006 : 10:09:06 AM
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Hi Etherfish
i don't have intentions to do dangerous practices, and i myself very much against of anything harmful to the society.
anyway i can see the point in your post
thank you  |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2006 : 11:28:55 AM
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My "warning" is because I thought (wrongly?) that you were making fun of TM with your Superman comment.
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Athma_Shakti
India
81 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2006 : 3:24:42 PM
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ohhhh
iam sorry David, i didn't really make fun of anyone. i honour all the paths. i just wanted to know anyone had the "flying" experience. and i didn't relate to TM or any paths with any imaginary characters. may be my way of expression was not proper.
if anyone feel bad, then i bow and apologize to all of you.
___/ \___
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2006 : 3:49:55 PM
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Actually, I should clarify that I wasn't really serious at all. I thought you were joking and was kind of joking too. There was an intended irony in the fact that I was "warning" you about your "joke" and I was continuing the same joke with the phrase "hopping mad".
So I jokingly continued a joke I mistakenly thought you had made, and you mistook that for a serious warning!
Wow, what a miscommunication! I'm glad you cleared it up!!
** Sigh ** I forgot to use the clown-face again! This is what happens. Will I ever learn?
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Nov 06 2006 4:23:14 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 07:07:59 AM
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Hi everyone,
I'm not sure who is joking and who isn't now  . I am sure no offence was taken by anyone.
I have been doing Samyama on superman for years. No seriously. I started it long before I found AYP. It was part of a meditation I did that I developed spontaneously. It was (I think) basically a samyama technique, only using one particular feeling. Here is how the superman bit worked: You know that bit when the lady falls off the railings next to the waterfall and is falling towards the water. And superman sees her fall. He knows that he can fly down and save her but he has to protect his secret identity, so he needs to move very fast through a phone box. Imagine you are superman. Imagine how he must have felt at that moment... the adrenalin... the pranic rush up his spine, the incredible focusing of all his senses to one purpose... the knowledge that something incredible is about to happen. Feel it in your body, and then feel the silence in the mind.
I would do it with a series of things, like that feeling you get when you have just listened to an amazing orchestra play, and they have just played their last piece, and then... silence. You know the audience is just about to rise to their feet like a wave in a standing ovation that will last for minutes. Same thing... the anticipation and suspense and focusing of the mind before the incredible happens. Feel it in your body, and then feel the silence. I would do this with half a dozen different scenarios.
I am not recommending it as a practice to anyone here. But I do not think it is an illegitimate practice, or "not the true way". The Tibetans use a lot of visualizations in their meditations, and many, I believe, are designed to evoke feelings.
I don't think it is really coincidence about the question being asked here about combining samyama with superman, and the fact that I used to do this as part of my practice. After all, samyama is a siddhi practice, and the superman film, like many others (the X-men for example) are films about siddhis.
I don't do this practice any more, but mostly because I had forgotten about it until I was reminded by this thread...
thanks
Love and light
Christi |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Nov 15 2006 : 10:43:04 AM
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| "Samyama Man"... I'll keep that in mind for the next Halloween party I go to! |
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Katrina
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2006 : 7:50:41 PM
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I started practicing TM 6 years ago and found i hated my mantra from the start.
I can't seem to get on with mantras in general, even "I AM" keeps me on the level of thinking(aboutthis forum..Yogani..am i doing this right..etc..).
To me meditation is going beyond thought, which i can mostly do by just leting go of all thoughts and staying in that space.Not sure if i am progressing spiritually, but it does seem to re-energise me a bit. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2006 : 10:10:18 PM
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Hi Katrina,
Welcome to the forum. Your post reminds me of how I felt about mantra meditation when I started. I used to like to just go to that silent place in my mind, I found it peaceful. When I started mantra meditation I found it "noisy", I even remember asking Yogani about that once.
After almost 2 years of twice a day mantra meditation I can say that those thoughts are long forgotten. I find I go very deep and I feel that the rate of clearing out the emotional debris and delusional thoughts is far faster. I feel like silent mediation is sitting on the surface and enjoying the calm whereas mantra meditation digs beneath the surface to remove anything that could ever upset that calm. That peacefulness then comes outside of meditation and starts to permeate all aspects of your life.
This is just my perspective, good luck with whatever you choose.
A |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2006 : 06:52:45 AM
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Welcome to the forum Katrina Members from the UK are thin on the ground here so stay with us and keep posting
quote:
I can't seem to get on with mantras in general, even "I AM" keeps me on the level of thinking(aboutthis forum..Yogani..am i doing this right..etc..).
When you have other thoughts you just gently come back to the mantra see Deep Meditation
and Meditation Q&A – Not much Happening
Have you been using the I AM mantra long?
Richard |
Edited by - Richard on Nov 28 2006 07:28:46 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2006 : 09:44:25 AM
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Hi Katrina, and welcome to the forum.
quote:
I can't seem to get on with mantras in general, even "I AM" keeps me on the level of thinking(aboutthis forum..Yogani..am i doing this right..etc..).
To me meditation is going beyond thought, which i can mostly do by just leting go of all thoughts and staying in that space.Not sure if i am progressing spiritually, but it does seem to re-energise me a bit.
Why not leave the manta out, and let your meditation be "just leting go of all thoughts and staying in that space". You could still build the rest of the practice around that, asanas, spinal breathing, bastrika, samyama, sivasana etc. I know that mantra meditation has a lot of benefits that silent meditation does not have (to do with vibrational resonances in the subtle nervous system), but if you have a hard time with mantras, then it could make your practice a lot more enjoyable.
You could always add the mantra in later if you want to, when it feels like the time is right.
L&L
Christi |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2006 : 10:43:18 AM
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Katrina,
I agree with Christi in every way. If you have some ability to 'let go of thoughts' (which not everyone has, BTW) explore that for a while. Consider adding in the mantra later.
even "I AM" keeps me on the level of thinking(aboutthis forum..Yogani..am i doing this right..etc..).
The above effect is probably only a temporary glitch, so I would not permanently rule out mantra-meditation because of it.
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2006 : 11:30:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrina
I can't seem to get on with mantras in general, even "I AM" keeps me on the level of thinking(aboutthis forum..Yogani..am i doing this right..etc..). To me meditation is going beyond thought, which i can mostly do by just leting go of all thoughts and staying in that space.Not sure if i am progressing spiritually, but it does seem to re-energise me a bit.
Hi Katrina, and welcome!
As you no doubt know, thoughts (regardless of content) in deep meditation are part of the process, and easily favoring the mantra will take us beyond thinking again and again like clockwork. If we come right back into thoughts, that is purification happening, and we easily come back to the mantra again. This is a proactive process of going beyond thinking that gradually leads to permanent inner silence, something that takes much longer to cultivate by passive (non-mantra/mindfulness) meditative means. In fact, mindfulness techniques typically involve much longer sessions. It can be done either way. It is a matter of how much we'd like to accomplish with the time we have available, and also how much time and attention we'd like to have available to move on to additional techniques that can further enhance our rate of progress.
Here in AYP, it is all about effectiveness and efficiency. Of course, our preferences and natural style have to be honored as well. We each have our own road to travel, and we pick our own roadmaps.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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snake
United Kingdom
279 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2006 : 2:15:42 PM
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hi Katrina,
I am very similar in my feelings to the mantra as yourself and often prefer to just rest in silence.But Im sure the mantra does a lot of work deep down if practised.
bets wishes.
chris |
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yoginstar
Netherlands
78 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2006 : 4:29:41 PM
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Hi Katrina and Chris,
I've started reading Secrets of Wilder just recently, and though I haven't gotten very far into it yet, the description of how the i am is taught to Devi Duran, and how she practises it for the first time somehow or other "clicked" better with me, although I can't say that for the book itself as yet (The format takes some getting used to... )
It is almost as if it is not only thinking “i am” but becoming truly aware of it (consciously focussing the awareness on it as well ) and becoming one with that awareness, in other words trying to conscously be wholly with the i am thought as it were.
Or expressed differently: not as if you are you and there is a thought "i am" you are watching, but you the watcher starts to relate to the thought I Am and bond with it in union. Well, this describing it myself may be entirely clumsy, but....... my meditations have been soaring to new levels since then!!
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Katrina
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2006 : 5:45:30 PM
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Thank you all for your replies.
I only came across this website a week ago,so have to admit i haven't given the mantra a fair go yet.
I will try practicing it for a few weeks, then post my experiences here.
...(Would like to add a smiley face here,but can't find one!)
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Topic |
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Anyone done TM and now AYP?
