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ak33
Canada
229 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 08 2015 : 11:38:22 AM
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| I believe that an answer to "Who has attained enlightenment with AYP" will never be attained on this forum. I would like to now ask some more directed questions to AYP practitioners, preferably those have considerable experience, firstly what is your daily practice? How do you view the world on a day-to-day basis? Can you describe some of your meditation experiences? Can you describe major shifts in consciousness? Have you subdued your addictions, mental afflictions, desires? If yoga is a science, then it is not wrong to ask these kinds of questions. Detailed and objective answers are preferred. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2015 : 5:51:57 PM
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I came to AYP after quitting drugs and alcohol, and practices like Deep Meditation and Samyama have helped me stay sober with remarkable ease. More importantly, the practices have got me more active in creative endeavors like playing guitar and writing songs. At times, I feel like I could float through the air, but that has not happened as of yet, though I'm confident with enough repetitions of the akasha--lightness of air sutra, it will happen one day.
Not much phases me in social situations, and I can connect with all kinds of people on a deep level very quickly. However, I have yet to sustain a long-term relationship with a female partner, but nevertheless, I admire and respect the divine feminine more and more.
Lately, my meditations have a lot of ego voice chattering on, but there is plenty of inner space still present, so the voice doesn't bother me, and I appreciate how the ego is coming to terms with purification and opening. Even if the sessions are internally noisy, I inevitably feel better afterwards. Often I see light streaming through my third eye, as well as soul-images of many people I do and do not know. I feel like a hologram projected from the whole of existence. My recurring desire is to have more mobility across inner space, and that comes in waves.
Every once in a while, some glamorous scenery will come along where I'm privy to some higher dimensions and cosmic beings, but I don't push for that too hard because it can get toasty.
One of the most profound and effective teachings I've gleaned from AYP is directing negative emotions to my higher ideal, and over the past several years, I've trained myself so that such redirection is increasingly automatic. This is a great relief for me, since Alcoholics Anonymous advocates an emotional lobotomy (removal of anger) that I regard as unwholesome and problematic, to say the least. On that note, I am forming my own group based on AYP and the calling to serve and improve the recovery paradigm and community.
All in all, it's been a slow and steady journey of enlightenment, and I'm only 4 years into daily practice. I appreciate the day-to-day mentality of staying present with the moment, but even so, I can't help but wonder how good it will get as time marches on and the obstructions dissolve, personally and globally.
Hope this satisfies your inquiry a little bit. Best wishes on your path.  |
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ak33
Canada
229 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2015 : 7:47:59 PM
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Thank you Bodhi, much appreciated
Anyone else? (also, please try to keep the descriptions specifically to AYP practices) |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2015 : 9:50:24 PM
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quote:
firstly what is your daily practice?
I'm in AYP 17 months now. My daily practice is usually one twenty minute meditation and samyama; I occasionally throw in one yoni mudra at the end for the eye candy. In pockets of the day I do a few minutes of asana and pranayama; a few times a week I engage in arousal (solo tantric) practices.
quote:
How do you view the world on a day-to-day basis?
Everything is beautiful, in it's own way. (Sing it!)
quote:
Can you describe some of your meditation experiences?
It takes little time to slip deep into DM and maintain the mantra. My kundalini is active and the energy intense with directed attention, therefore I often employ solar centering and surrender any 'willfulness' in the process. I really enjoy samyama as it is a way to give back kundalini energy via the sutras and feels grounding, as does offering up to my ishta, which feels like champagne bubbles flowing from my heart.
quote:
Can you describe major shifts in consciousness?
I seem to better identify when Ego steps forward to exert influence. I definitely have felt a buffer from suffering in moments of duress. I find myself smiling more, and receiving smiles back. The veil still obscures the infinite but the fabric seems thinner.
quote:
Have you subdued your addictions, mental afflictions, desires?
I have always been an even keeled, moderate sort without addiction or affliction. Most of desire involved arousal and sexual pleasure, which now (thanks to AYP) is expressed inward and upward and is a part of my yogic tool kit. 
AYP is a highly energetic system with a small time commitment that appeals to the Guru in me. Above all: SELF PACE! |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2015 : 03:07:03 AM
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Dear ak33,
You are right, nobody here is going to answer "the enlightenment question" as such. However, the other more specific questions that you asked are indeed reasonable indicators of how our practice is going and I'm sure you will get plenty of responses. You asked specifically about AYP practices; I am from another school (HOY) but there is considerable overlap in the techniques and philosophy of these two schools, so I think my experience will be relevant.
What is my daily practice? Until 2011 I did the SRF form of kriya as my central practice for about 30 years, until I discovered HOY and found that the HOY technique (very similar to AYP spinal breathing) was much more effective. So, after that I was doing about 30 minutes of asana plus pranayama (spinal breathing) and then deep meditation upon waking, and then just a little bit of asana, pranayama and more deep meditation before sleep. (Note, AYP recommends doing the second session earlier in the day.) In the past year or so I've had issues with health and lack of time, so have shortened my daily routine to just a few minutes of asana, pranayama and meditation upon waking - not as much as I would ideally like - and then often a much longer meditation before sleep, sometimes an hour or more (not recommended per AYP, but I tend to get swept away and lose track of time). A couple of nights a week when we both have off work, my husband and I practice tantric sex also.
How do I view the world on a day to day basis? I don't feel the need to "view the world" in any particular way; doing so can only be projection or imposition of a mental construct. Every day, every moment, is fresh and new, like Christmas morning. I'm just here to be Love in the world amidst all the paradox and chaos and whatever may unfold. I do sometimes find that it is a delicate balancing act between being absorbed in meditative Bliss and Oneness, versus allowing myself to be actively concerned and involved in politics, etc., as part of trying to make the world a better place.
Can I describe my meditation experiences? We're not really looking for "experiences" in meditation. For me, generally "meditation" is what happens whenever I'm not actively doing something else, and consists of simply enjoying God in Love and stillness. The "practice" of meditation is just setting aside time specifically to do that.
Major shifts in consciousness? I've described this elsewhere, but very briefly, in 2011 the meditative state burst out and took over my entire reality. Then in 2013 the intensity was amped way up and the Presence even more palpable on a continual basis.
Have you subdued your addictions, mental afflictions, desires? LOL, who is subduing whom?!  My desire for God had completely taken the place of all other desires years ago. Now having Him, everything else pales in comparison. (AYP is not "religious" but the practices are offered to one's own ishta, Whatever that may be. The practices lead to absorption in Bliss which is better than anything, so that other stuff naturally falls away.)
I hope that is helpful!  |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2015 : 06:03:30 AM
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I found AYP only a few months ago, and the lessons of Yogani and this forum gives me much courage and understanding of my journey till now. It's not so easy to find someone who can answer your questions on this journey. Especially because our journey is very unique.
I practice Mantra (the only difference is, I use So-Ham instead of I am), SB, DM and samyama every day. In the morning for 30 min. incl. some pranayama.
SB with mantra and DM also in bed before sleep and when I wake up at night (not recommended, but I do this since 7 years)
I practice asanas every day ( My work is yogateacher since 2 years) but also my own asana practice appr. 30 min.
I view the world at this moment as a beautiful place with all human beings on a journey to find Love and Thruth. The biggest shift for me was the moment that I could feel in DM at the same moment deep pain and deep love, and that it stays in that way after that, also in daily life. Deep understanding of the circle of life, that it has to be the way it is. And I know now the difference between understanding with the mind and deep Realizing.
The pressure of "have to do" changed in "satisfaction in the moment" and funny enough everything happens on the right moment, but without the feeling or pressure of doing.....
I feel that especially DM and SB with mantra practice every day gave me a deep understanding of the need to let go my willpower..... and surrender to Thruth. Realizing That brought me ecstasy and Love in meditation, and bliss or love in every day life.
And I realize that I use poor English for this beautiful journey, but thats the way it is for me.....
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Edited by - Charliedog on Jan 09 2015 07:12:32 AM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2015 : 1:58:44 PM
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How can it help to know what someone else is or maybe ? It's amusing like a good story but it's as useless as a wet match, but anyhoo
My practice
5mins pranayama
20mins DM
5mins sutras
Fundamental changes:
An understanding of how many things connect to exactly the same point. Like the hub of a wheel around which everything turns. It gives a reference for everything .
Left my well payed miserable job and began writing allowing, me to follow my heart instead of how I thought I should be.
I see the world differently but I have no idea how I used to see it so it's difficult to produce specific examples. It's like being in love. I see the world in light of that. Sometimes I can't hold an opinion, or even form one. It's as if all the energy just disperses leaving an impression.
I'm very God centric despite spending years as an atheist. I have no interest in religion. I read religious texts with the same hub of the wheel approach. At one time the words would have left me puzzled, now it's crystal clear. I used to be socialist and now I'm anarchist.
Everything else is just the same. I still get angry, still forget to do things, still mess up, get irritated, scared ( much less so now as I spent my life somewhat manic depressive ).
I have a book on kindle where I documented the subtle changes up to around 2 years ago. Things have continued to change.
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kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2015 : 3:22:52 PM
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| Hi Kari I used to be anarchist now I believe in the grace and love of God many blessings to you |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2015 : 4:40:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
It's like being in love.
Yes, in love with the universe! |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2015 : 7:41:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kumar ul islam
Hi Kari I used to be anarchist now I believe in the grace and love of God many blessings to you
I think you might be thinking of the wrong kind of anarchist . The rabble rouser/chaos type of personality- the sort with placards banners and takes part in marches ? No, mine is a different form of Kung Fu |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2015 : 7:56:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
quote:
Originally posted by karl
It's like being in love.
Yes, in love with the universe!
Not exactly. It's a deep and abiding empathy for other people If I disapprove initially of some action - take the recent murders in France - I go into unity automatically and I'm not conscious of having taken that step. Not sure it's easy to describe or imagine that. Like merging with the sea nothing, remains of the self in that moment and the effect is permanent. It's not sympathy or understanding, but an instant merging in which neither I or the other remain. It doesn't mean I agree or approve the actions of that person, but neither do I see them as neutral internally. The actions don't disturb the essence, yet I can hold an impression of the action as if it was without energy. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2015 : 8:46:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
No, mine is a different form of Kung Fu
"A good martial artist does not become tense, but ready. Not thinking, yet not dreaming. Ready for whatever may come. When the opponent expands, I contract; and when he contracts, I expand. And when there is an opportunity, "I" do not hit..."it" hits all by itself."
--Bruce Lee |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2015 : 06:03:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
quote:
Originally posted by karl
No, mine is a different form of Kung Fu
"A good martial artist does not become tense, but ready. Not thinking, yet not dreaming. Ready for whatever may come. When the opponent expands, I contract; and when he contracts, I expand. And when there is an opportunity, "I" do not hit..."it" hits all by itself."
--Bruce Lee
that's perfect.
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2015 : 06:17:40 AM
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Great quote Bohdi - the clearest proof I've yet come across that martial arts at an advanced level are also a spiritual journey.
quote:
Originally posted by karl
It's a deep and abiding empathy for other people If I disapprove initially of some action - take the recent murders in France - I go into unity automatically and I'm not conscious of having taken that step.
This is interesting. Perhaps I will get there one day too.
In my case being 'in love with the universe' does say it pretty accurately. Using the same example of the terrorism in France, seeing something like that doesn’t take me out of the 'in love' state - when people do bad things, I'm aware it's not their essence, but their hurt (which, I feel, is somehow at a more superficial layer of their being) that makes them lash out in violence. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2015 : 08:49:08 AM
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You are already 'there'. I think you are still rationalising more than using intuition. As they say in Star Wars 'you must learn to use the force'.
Instead of rationalising ( which I still do) I'm appalled and diffident at the same time. I can happily enjoy the sense of outrage and anger letting it flourish and flow without it disturbing anything.
This isn't something I have cultivated or really understand. That's why I struggle to hold opinions independently of 'that which seemingly is'. Everything is tied back to a central point ( I have no access to it ) and I have relinquished virtually all control to that point.
The Bible speaks of a small voice and the mustard seed. This seems to be what is happening. I allowed the seed to grow and gave up trying to use intelligence, emotion, thought etc as the primal method.
It seems I'm at sea in a rotten boat which leaks more and more each day. The practices are now a method of bailing out the boat so it can remain buoyant. Entirely opposite to how I perceived them. Now the practices do not move me towards enlightenment, they are a method of slowing the changes to an acceptable rate. The boat will sink when the time is right and until then it must be kept afloat in order to reach that point.
I read a book the other day in which someone described themselves as the superfluous Man. That's exactly how it is. I know less and less because it's no longer necessary to know. Instead everything just appears. So coming to this forum now and writing is just what I'm doing I have no idea why . |
Edited by - karl on Jan 11 2015 08:54:26 AM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2015 : 09:01:11 AM
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Sounds wonderful Karl.
I can relate to what you are saying about the central point, but I'm not as far as you are. Maybe I will get there one day.
Thank you for sharing. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2015 : 09:23:02 AM
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| You are as far as I am. You just haven't allowed yourself to be. Let go. |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2015 : 10:22:39 AM
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I am letting go, little by little. No doubt about that, especially when I look back to a year or 18 months ago.
And I like where I am too. Being in love is wonderful |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2015 : 10:32:25 AM
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| Is Blue raincoat a reference to Jennifer Warnes ? |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2015 : 10:39:29 AM
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No, it's a reference to Leonard Cohen (I have not yet had many spiritual experiences he had not managed to put into verse )
http://www.leonardcohen.com/us/musi...lue-raincoat
I see Jennifer Warnes is a collaborator of L Cohen, so yes, it was in reference to her too (unknowingly) |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Jan 11 2015 10:45:46 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2015 : 1:55:07 PM
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Hi ak33...
quote:
Originally posted by ak33
I believe that an answer to "Who has attained enlightenment with AYP" will never be attained on this forum. I would like to now ask some more directed questions to AYP practitioners, preferably those have considerable experience, firstly what is your daily practice?
My daily practice is remain aware of the movements and fluctuations of the body/mind 24/7 and to look at every emotional reaction and use it as an opportunity to see myself clearer.
quote:
Originally posted by ak33
How do you view the world on a day-to-day basis?
Not really sure how to answer this question with anything that isn't entirely subjective and likely meaningless to anyone but me.
quote:
Originally posted by ak33
Can you describe some of your meditation experiences?
Honestly I don't think this is relevant. Experiences don't really indicate much of anything except for perhaps what stage one is at today (and the "stages" aren't necessarily linear, so this may actually be a false indication of progress).
quote:
Originally posted by ak33
Can you describe major shifts in consciousness?
There have been SO many that it would be quite hard to list them all. Lets just say that, for me, when I came to AYP I was very much stuck in my mind (10+ threads of thought all day, everyday), a complete slave to my emotions, and unable to let go of anything. Now, my mind is quiet, difficult emotions rarely surface and when they do they are embraced and used as fodder for growth, and there is very little that I can't let go of immediately (which leaves me free from suffering for the most part).
quote:
Originally posted by ak33
Have you subdued your addictions, mental afflictions, desires?
I would say that, for the most part, yes. Obviously there are going to be some desires and to some degree "mental afflictions" but in general, when compared to pre-AYP, I would say that they are now essentially negligible. When I came to AYP I was physically addicted to methadone (90mg daily dose for the last 3+ years and an IV heroin addict for a half dozen years before that). I did DM for 1 month before adding SBP, and within 10 weeks of starting DM/SBP together I was 100% clean from opiates and had experienced zero withdrawal symptoms. Technically, according to western medicine, this is biologically impossible. This was probably one of the most physically verifiable experiences I've seen here at AYP indicating the physical ramifications of spiritual practices.
If you want to read the entire long version of my answers to your above questions you can check out this thread here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=8369
Love,
Carson |
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Anima
484 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2015 : 9:25:17 PM
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Namaste, ak33.
I've paraphrased your questions and my answers for the sake of brevity:
1. Firstly what is your daily practice?
2. How do you view the world on a day-to-day basis?
3. Can you describe some of your meditation experiences?
4. Can you describe major shifts in consciousness?
5. Have you subdued your addictions, mental afflictions, desires?
6. If yoga is a science, then it is not wrong to ask these kinds of questions.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Being, non-being, becoming.
2. Existent, non-existent, incipient.
3. Here, there, nowhere.
4. Totality, partitivity, narrative.
5. Over, under, concurrent.
6. Knowledge, ignorance, experience.
Allow me to submit Alfred Noye’s poetic testimony of utmost and earnest relevance to the topic at hand:
Knowledge, they say,
drives wonder from the world;
they say it still, though all the dust’s ablaze
with marvels at their feet,
while Newton’s laws foretell
that knowledge one day
shall be song.
We seem like children wandering by the shore,
gathering pebbles colored by the wave;
while the great sea of truth, from sky to sky
stretches before us,
boundless, unexplored.
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2015 : 01:30:11 AM
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I have been doing AYP 7 - 8 years - I think. Right now I am going through the phase of "I know sh*t". Don't ask me anything. I DON'T KNOW.
Sey |
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2015 : 08:52:19 AM
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Hi ak33, I don’t have big experience of AYP (AYP regular practice since December 2014, prior to that I had a regular hatha yoga practice for a couple of years) but I hope you don't mind if I try to answer your questions.
What is your daily practice?
Some asana when time is available - 5 min. of SBP – 15 min. of DM – 10 min. of rest in savasana.
This routine is practiced twice a day, every day, almost without exceptions.
The routine has changed 2-3 times due to some (mild) overload situations (for example, I started with 20 min. DM, reduced to 10 min. and now reaugmented up to 15 min.).
How do you view the world on a day-to-day basis?
Don’t understand this question.
Can you describe some of your meditation experiences?
In the beginning (first 2-3 weeks) the energy was pretty wild and even scary (I reported about it in this forum): energy moving around my body, strange lights inside and outside me, automatic neck movements, automatic kechari. I was lucky that those uncontrolled fireworks mostly disappeared few days after adding SBP as suggested from the AYP community. After a couple of months, the main experience in DM was inner silence, and still is. The wild/scary experiences are gone.
Can you describe major shifts in consciousness?
Don't know if you would call it a shift in consciousness, but I experience more inner silence instead of a non stop negative chatting mind. More equanimity instead of anxiety in daily life.
Have you subdued your addictions, mental afflictions, desires?
I did not have big issues with addictions and desires before AYP. But I did have relevant mental afflictions (depression, anxiety), and I can say that things are getting much, much better. The last year (my first AYP year) was the best time of my whole life in terms of equanimity, positive thinking, and feeling love for my family, friends and coworkers. Still having breakdowns, but by far not like I used to.
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Anima
484 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2015 : 6:32:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecdyonurus
After a couple of months, the main experience in DM was inner silence, and still is. The wild/scary experiences are gone.
Can you describe major shifts in consciousness?
Don't know if you would call it a shift in consciousness, but I experience more inner silence instead of a non stop negative chatting mind. More equanimity instead of anxiety in daily life.
Have you subdued your addictions, mental afflictions, desires?
I did not have big issues with addictions and desires before AYP. But I did have relevant mental afflictions (depression, anxiety), and I can say that things are getting much, much better. The last year (my first AYP year) was the best time of my whole life in terms of equanimity, positive thinking, and feeling love for my family, friends and coworkers. Still having breakdowns, but by far not like I used to.
Wow! Can relate here, too! |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 14 2015 : 9:40:20 PM
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Anima,
LOVE the poem!
Karl,
Nit-picky definitional question that is admittedly irrelevant to this discussion, but just out of curiosity: You said you used to be a "socialist" and now you are an "anarchist." Which type of anarchist? Maybe you discussed that in your book, which I still need to read. I myself am an anarchosocialist, meaning that in my ideal world of liberty and equality, everybody freely cooperates for our mutual well-being, the workers own the means of production and we make decisions democratically. I understand there are also capitalist and other types of anarchism? I'm reminded of the hilarious scene from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail":
"WOMAN: We don't have a lord.
ARTHUR: What?
DENNIS: We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.
ARTHUR: Yes.
DENNIS: But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting..." etc., LOL
BTW, I find nothing in anarchism per se that would contradict the Grace and Love of God. [sorry if this is inappropriate for this thread, may need to be moved...]
Bodhi,
Love the Bruce Lee quote! I have practiced martial arts in the past and I am a big Bruce Lee fan. |
Edited by - Radharani on Jan 14 2015 9:41:16 PM |
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Enlightenment and Progress
