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inquirer
13 Posts |
 Posted - May 11 2014 : 10:39:16 AM
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Friends,
I've been doing AYP for ~3 years and have mostly been on the ecstatic side of things. Automatic asanas, quick head turning and automatic kechari (now level 3) are some of the symptoms the arise during meditation. I'm currently using last mantra enhancement.
In parallel to doing AYP I've been reading about other traditions (Daniel Ingram, Kornfield, liberation unleashed etc.) and I've found appplying Vipassana (mindfulness and noting the 3 characteristics) very beneficial to my practice.
Let me give you an example of that. Always doing yoni mudra kumbhaka at the end of the practice resulted in a huge outburst of energy going to my head. The energy naturally went down pretty quickly normally and I wasn't able to sustain it. However, after reading up on Vipassana and switching to that state of observing (especially no-self and impermanence) I was able to sustain the energy and go further, whatever happened, by observing and not clinging to the experiences (it is also a great way to deal with fear that arises during new and intense AYP experiences).
In general I find vipassana to be a missing link in low level AYP practice description. It's a perfect method to achieve the approach that in AYP writings has been described somewhat broadly (too broadly to apply) as "don't attach to the scenery". There's also probably the most important thing - vipassana is something that helps a lot in a daily life, in any situation. AYP, aside from general changes in one's consciousness, won't help you directly in such a way.
Anyway, I have a great opportunity to attend week-long retreat in a Mahasi tradition (this particular practice doesn't involve explicit naming of all phenomena, just applying awareness to everything).
Having only meditated alone and in AYP manner, it raises a couple of issues, however:
- What to do if Kundalini arises (it will probably happen after 5 min or so :) - should I block spontaneus movements and kechari?
- If I don't block kechari and it keeps arising all day long, may it lead to overload (even though I won't be repeating the mantras)?
- I'll probably feel uncomfortable with spontaneous movements and kryias showing up among people that are not from the kundalini tradition. Does such things happen on V retreats? If not, should I try to block it or eg. sit in the last row so that I'm not distracting anyone too much?
- I have impression that mindfully observing the kryias may help to dissolve them and go further without going them arising intensely. Has anyone had such an experience as well?
I'd be very grateful if anything above rings a bell (especially if you have experience with both Vipassana and AYP) and you could share your thoughts on that.
Thank you,
E.
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Edited by - inquirer on May 12 2014 05:04:32 AM |
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Omsat
Belgium
267 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2014 : 06:18:37 AM
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Hi inquirer,
quote:
Originally posted by inquirer
- What to do if Kundalini arises (it will probably happen after 5 min or so :) - should I block spontaneus movements and kechari?
- If I don't block kechari and it keeps arising all day long, may it lead to overload (even though I won't be repeating the mantras)?
- I'll probably feel uncomfortable with spontaneous movements and kryias showing up among people that are not from the kundalini tradition. Does such things happen on V retreats? If not, should I try to block it or eg. sit in the last row so that I'm not distracting anyone too much?
- I have impression that mindfully observing the kryias may help to dissolve them and go further without going them arising intensely. Has anyone had such an experience as well?
I'd be very grateful if anything above rings a bell (especially if you have experience with both Vipassana and AYP) and you could share your thoughts on that.
Thank you,
E.
Seems like your practices are working very well for you.
I have experience with practicing both vipassana (from other tradition) and AYP and have found them both helpful.
Good questions and relevant.
In answer to your questions:
1. If kundalini arises, it arises  I would not block something that comes naturally; yet also not favour any kriyas during a vipassana retreat. When noticed they arise, they may be let go off if the tradition of the place where you practice recommends that. Vipassana involves observation, not repressing, not indulging. I do not know how your symptoms manifest, but most of the time one can feel kundalini gently and pleasantly, without too many excessive symptoms that could be distracting other meditators. In the event these arise, quietly chaning position may help. Some head churning once in a while and kechari will not disturb others I think. To the extent the automatic yoga is internal or at least silent, it is also ok..
2. I cannot comment from personal experience as I am not doing kechari during retreats.
3. Many people experience some kind of kundalini symptoms during retreats, especially if they are already involved in practices at home. Keep it gentle. If it is very visible and you have no control over it, perhaps meditate in your own place rather than in the hall, or as you say, somewhere in the back where no one sees you. Normally excessive symptoms pass away in time. The peaceful vibrations of the meditation hall and the habit of equanimity in Buddhist traditions will help to let go of the rather visible symptoms so they may become more subtle, longlasting and blissful.
Some of the stronger symptoms like heavy shaking usually subside when changing posture. Basic awareness of the position of the body helps grounding the energies also in my experience. Especially awareness of the areas of the body touching the floor. A very basic awareness that I found helpful in the past (in the period in which shaking was a common experience here) is to open the eyes and look at the body in a casual way.
If you find it difficult to sit quietly and calmly, this may help: When the mind is calm and one keeps awareness of the subtle tendencies of the body, favouring a very stable unmoving position for extended period of time, the kundalini symptoms become subtle, pleasant and long lived and the habit of excessive movements fades away.
4. Yes, this was experienced here. The initial strong symptoms dissolve with equanimous observation and not letting the mind wander too much over anything that arises.
Wish you a wonderful retreat!
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Edited by - Omsat on May 12 2014 06:57:41 AM |
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inquirer
13 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2014 : 07:54:07 AM
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Thanks Omsat, what you're saying makes a lot of sense!
Let me add two more questions, as your experiences seem very relevant.
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I'm wondering whether sidhassana, is a right posture for Vipassana retreat. Firstable it's a tantric practice, so it works by stimulating energy, while Vipassana is about neutral observing. Also, although I'm not sure about it, probably it could lead to AYP style overload, when doing it 7 whole days. What do you think? Any postures you'd recommed?
On much more general note - I've heard Vincent Horn (of Buddhist Geeks fame) saying that Samatha - as buddhist call concentration practices, to which AYP probably belongs - and Vipassana both have separate momentums. Which means that one needs to focus on one in any given period to achieve best results.
I have an impression lately, after getting back to AYP after a break, that the state that it promotes is not entirely compatible with Vipassana style mindful alertness. What's your take on it, are you doing both in parallel? How do you feel they interact with each other?
Many thanks!
E. |
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Vipassana retreat - advice for AYPer attending
