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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 27 2014 : 8:40:41 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?featu...=nxf4kj8Rb6Y
Found this talk quite interesting, and have ordered their book.
Got into it because this guy runs a water-only fasting center, and I've recently had some interesting experiences with water-only fasting.
As mentioned in some other threads, I had a sort of problem where, after two five-day water-only fasts, I felt like many things had improved--more inner silence, more calm, more awareness, less anxiety, better sleep, but also like some sort of "zip" or "flavor" had been taken out of life's pleasures--especially food and sex. It wasn't like I had no appetite or no libido, exactly, it was just that I felt detached or something, like pleasure had no hold on me. A kind of liberating yet depressing feeling, almost, and one I'm still coming to terms with, though it's improved somewhat as I've worked on improving my diet.
This brings me to a bigger question: in AYP and similar pursuits, are we ultimately seeking "happiness" as opposed to "pleasure" or are we seeking both? Neither (transcendence of both)?
As this guy describes the neurobiology of pleasure versus happiness, pleasure is basically that rush, that hit you get when, say, you have an orgasm, or bite into a really great piece of chocolate. As an AYP practitioner, I've found one can also experience very similar feelings when doing say, sambhavi or kechari or mulabandha.
Happiness, by contrast, is more of a "mood"--a general sense that things are going right in your life. Having a good marriage or fulfilling career may bring you moments of intense pleasure, but mostly we think of these as providing happiness, as opposed to pleasure.
Now what's interesting to me is that it seems almost like fasting upped my happiness at the same time as it lowered my pleasure. I always thought of these as intertwined--almost like, the more often and more intense your pleasure, the happier you'll tend to be. And that could be true to some extent. But we all also know that drug addicts aren't usually very "happy." Rather, they're addicted to pleasure. So it seems there's also a sense in which the two are antithetical, or, at least, very separate.
Yogani has also said that even at the higher stages of enlightenment, you aren't exactly feeling intense "pleasure" all the time (he's also described it as being like "always orgasming," so it's a little hard to understand, since I think of orgasm as just being intense pleasure), but rather like a kind of gentle radiance, given that the nervous system gets used to everything, including perhaps, constant orgasms. I guess maybe this is like a pleasant background of pleasure that provides peace and equanimity. But does this mean what we are ultimately after is not pleasure for its own sake, but happiness?
Does this make any sense? I'm trying to unravel the seductions of pleasure, as getting too focused on that aspect of life and spiritual practice has gotten me into trouble in the past, but I still feel myself strongly drawn to pleasure, even if I'm getting my "hit" from yoni mudra kumbhaka, rather than chocolate or cocaine. Do I ultimately want to go beyond even that? Thanks for any ideas or insight.  |
Edited by - tamasaburo on Apr 27 2014 8:41:52 PM |
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adishivayogi
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2014 : 11:22:02 PM
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2014 : 08:43:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tamasaburo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featu...=nxf4kj8Rb6Y
Found this talk quite interesting, and have ordered their book.
Got into it because this guy runs a water-only fasting center, and I've recently had some interesting experiences with water-only fasting.
As mentioned in some other threads, I had a sort of problem where, after two five-day water-only fasts, I felt like many things had improved--more inner silence, more calm, more awareness, less anxiety, better sleep, but also like some sort of "zip" or "flavor" had been taken out of life's pleasures--especially food and sex. It wasn't like I had no appetite or no libido, exactly, it was just that I felt detached or something, like pleasure had no hold on me. A kind of liberating yet depressing feeling, almost, and one I'm still coming to terms with, though it's improved somewhat as I've worked on improving my diet.
This brings me to a bigger question: in AYP and similar pursuits, are we ultimately seeking "happiness" as opposed to "pleasure" or are we seeking both? Neither (transcendence of both)?
As this guy describes the neurobiology of pleasure versus happiness, pleasure is basically that rush, that hit you get when, say, you have an orgasm, or bite into a really great piece of chocolate. As an AYP practitioner, I've found one can also experience very similar feelings when doing say, sambhavi or kechari or mulabandha.
Happiness, by contrast, is more of a "mood"--a general sense that things are going right in your life. Having a good marriage or fulfilling career may bring you moments of intense pleasure, but mostly we think of these as providing happiness, as opposed to pleasure.
Now what's interesting to me is that it seems almost like fasting upped my happiness at the same time as it lowered my pleasure. I always thought of these as intertwined--almost like, the more often and more intense your pleasure, the happier you'll tend to be. And that could be true to some extent. But we all also know that drug addicts aren't usually very "happy." Rather, they're addicted to pleasure. So it seems there's also a sense in which the two are antithetical, or, at least, very separate.
Yogani has also said that even at the higher stages of enlightenment, you aren't exactly feeling intense "pleasure" all the time (he's also described it as being like "always orgasming," so it's a little hard to understand, since I think of orgasm as just being intense pleasure), but rather like a kind of gentle radiance, given that the nervous system gets used to everything, including perhaps, constant orgasms. I guess maybe this is like a pleasant background of pleasure that provides peace and equanimity. But does this mean what we are ultimately after is not pleasure for its own sake, but happiness?
Does this make any sense? I'm trying to unravel the seductions of pleasure, as getting too focused on that aspect of life and spiritual practice has gotten me into trouble in the past, but I still feel myself strongly drawn to pleasure, even if I'm getting my "hit" from yoni mudra kumbhaka, rather than chocolate or cocaine. Do I ultimately want to go beyond even that? Thanks for any ideas or insight.
Great question. Its a fine line.
We are all of us drawn to pleasure.. And pain! Fears and aversions are the flip side of attractions.
Fasting and other austerities are dulling.
K is a path of ecstasy. Yes, its true its pleasurable, but as you let go of attachments, pleasure and pain lose some of their hold on you. So that which was pleasurable before just becomes part of the experience because you are always releasing into silence.
Ultimately, joy or happiness abides with pleasure and pain and anything else.
Hope that helps  |
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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2014 : 11:37:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by adishivayogi
god
Hi Adishivayogi,
Do you mean, we are seeking neither pleasure nor happiness, but God? But why are we seeking God? Because if we find God, we'll be happy? |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2014 : 11:55:35 PM
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I can't speak for Adishivayogi, and certainly everyone's experience is a little different, but - for me, the absolute Bliss/Ecstasy of God makes all pleasures pale by comparison. To seek pleasure/happiness and avoid pain/suffering is the normal state of human affairs on this plane, as the Buddha pointed out. Many people are drawn to yoga from the simple desire to end their suffering. And we were very pleasantly surprised, to say the least, when our consistent daily yoga practice not only eased our existential malaise, but opened up a whole new dimension of indescribable ecstasy in Divine union. From this perspective "pleasure" and "happiness," the desire for and/or the differences between them, become a moot point. Why are we seeking God? It is our God-given nature. We are drawn like a moth to the flame.  |
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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2014 : 10:05:06 AM
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I do think it's interesting that the science finds this bifurcation between the pleasure/pain circuit and the happiness/sadness circuit. It seems almost to correspond to the ecstasy/silence bifurcation (and ultimate unity) we talk about here.
I think the difficulty with pleasure is not that it's bad, but that in our current environment, the "seek pleasure," "avoid pain," and "conserve energy" circuitry all have a tendency to backfire, in that we've gotten too good at these things for our own good (we can accomplish all these goals in the short term by laying on a couch shooting heroine). The problem is that the "easy way" to attain these goals in our current society (overeating, too much sex, drugs, gambling, etc.) are very detrimental to the other, arguably more important "component" of well-being, happiness. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2014 : 7:25:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tamasaburo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featu...=nxf4kj8Rb6Y
Found this talk quite interesting,
Excellent teaching. He does not deal directly with yogic pleasure, but it seems to me that yogic pleasure inclines us to be receptive to the wisdom he offers.
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2014 : 7:34:28 PM
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| I've been tossing about the idea of the pleasure balance in my own practice as of late, as much pleasure makes me a "numb skull" and begs for moderation. Thank you for reviving this thread. |
Edited by - Dogboy on Jul 06 2014 7:42:34 PM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2014 : 07:58:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tamasaburo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featu...=nxf4kj8Rb6Y
Found this talk quite interesting, and have ordered their book.
I just watched this and found it very interesting too. Good solid science. Thank you for sharing the link. |
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Sol Invictus
91 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2014 : 7:17:35 PM
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As dear Lahiree Baba said:
"My worship is of a very strange kind.
In this Ganga water is not required.
No special utensils are necessary.
Even flowers are redundant.
In this puja all gods have disappeared.
And emptiness has emerged with euphoria."
Yogiraj Shama Churun Lahiree |
Edited by - Sol Invictus on Jul 18 2014 7:28:51 PM |
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adishivayogi
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2014 : 6:26:32 PM
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| I seek a perception that isn't involved with the polairites of life. to go beyond the joy of fulfilled desire and the sorrow of unfilled desire. to be absorbed in bliss not of the mind |
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Are we Seeking Pleasure or Happiness?
