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cherrydactyl
United Kingdom
2 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 12 2014 : 11:32:40 AM
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| I wonder if you could help me with this. Would we consider the Yoga practices spoken of in the Katha and Svetashvatara Upanishads to be Jnana Yoga? The practice of sense restraint and viveka is also spoken of under the guise of Raja Yoga in the Sutras so I'm a little unsure as to the boundary lines. Is it that the Yogin of the Sutras is looking to realize the distinction between prakriti and pursusha but the Yogin of the Upanishads is looking to realize the unity of Atman and Brahman. Any ideas? |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2014 : 06:49:06 AM
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Hi cherrydactyl,
Welcome to the forums.
Raja yoga is the systematic approach of using the various constructs of mind, body, breath and behavior to delve deep into the consciousness that pervades all. Patanjali's system is classic raja yoga, building upon moral/ethical values to body to breath to mind and finally dropping beyond the mind. So one could say we move progressively from gross to subtle to get to experiential knowledge of Brahman.
Jnana yoga begins on the foundation of two necessities - viveka (discrimination) and vairagya (dispassion). Discrimination between the real and unreal - real being Brahman and unreal being all else. Dispassion is necessary to begin to know the real. Once even a glimpse is had, discrimination and dispassion go in a circle, increasing in intensity. The primary practice of Jnana is inquiry.
Brahman is arrived at through both paths (and countless others). But for Jnana to be effective, there has to be enough inner silence and a certain degree of dispassion. Raja yoga gets us to that inner silence where Jnana can take off. AYP is an excellent raja yoga path that includes Jnana when the seeker is ready.
Prakriti (creation) is the manifestation of Purusha (Brahman). Atman is Brahman, perceived as a separate soul until self-realization reveals all to be One. So one might say that it is similar to Prakriti.
Hope this helps.
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cherrydactyl
United Kingdom
2 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2014 : 06:07:37 AM
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| Hi Kami, thanks for the prompt reply! I am still a little confused though. Yoga as spoken of in the Upanishads speaks of sensory restraint (as does Patanjali). They both speak about using viveka to develop jnana and they both speak of using breath control to still the mind. I think my point is this: is the Upanishadic Yoga what you are calling Jnana Yoga? Is it also synonymous with Advaita Vedanta? Patanjali is more closely aligned with Samkhya philosophy and the distinctions between matter and spirit rather than the union of atman and brahman. When do you see the birth of jnana yoga, earlier than the sutras? |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2014 : 11:47:24 AM
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Hi cherrydactyl,
Yes, the "yoga" of the Upanishads or the Bhagavad Gita is really Jnana yoga, although in different contexts it might mean "steady mind", "sense controlled", "equanimity", etc.. The Yoga Sutras begin with the famous second verse: "yoga chitti vritti nirodhah", i.e., yoga happens when the fluctuations of the mind cease. All other sutras are built upon this. So, essentially the Upanishads and the Yoga Sutras are talking about the same thing, but the "paths" to get there differ. The Upanishads declare again and again - wake up and see you have always been That. However, this is not easy to do, when there isn't enough dispassion/discrimination. The Yoga Sutras get there by working through various levels of "matter" as you might say..
One of the best commentaries on the Yoga Sutras I've found is here: http://www.swamij.com/yoga-sutras-10104.htm
Does it make sense?
Love.  |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2014 : 12:44:44 PM
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Hi Kami,
In your understanding, what does it mean "when the fluctuations of the mind cease". I've heard this sort of stuff before and am curious about how one should interpret this statement.
Thanks,
Josh |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2014 : 2:42:56 PM
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Dear Josh,
Fluctuations of the mind, IMHO, arise from the basic misidentification as the separate self. Thus thoughts pertaining to aggrandizing this and/or diminishing "other" perceived selves results in more and more thoughts, projections, memories, expectations + emotional attachments to each, in the form of judgment, comparison, fear, anxiety, etc etc. Such fluctuations keep up the basic misidentification. Thus, all of yoga is meant to decrease these fluctuations (aka, "thin the veils") until there is seeing of that primary misidentification. On the flip side, seeing the misidentification results in ceasing of such fluctuations..
Just my two cents. Not sure if it relates to your take on it?
Much love. |
Edited by - kami on Feb 14 2014 2:57:21 PM |
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jnana vs raja
