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DimWit
USA
4 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 10 2014 : 7:34:01 PM
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<more naive questions might follow this as I am new to to this>
When talking about Jnana Yoga, what is awareness, witness, pure awareness, conscious awareness, unconscious awareness ? Are you talking about awareness of thoughts or awareness of world around you without alteration by thoughts.
thanks in advance for enlightening me in future... |
Edited by - DimWit on Feb 10 2014 8:19:57 PM |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2014 : 11:31:49 PM
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Hi dimwit
These are terms to describe things that are better experienced than explained.
In self inquiry practice one is able to gain understanding of what these terms represent. Self inquiry is a jnana yoga practice.
Awareness can refer to many things, but in this sense it refers to consciousness. Witness, pure awareness, etc, are different ways to say it.
I suggest experiencing awareness for yourself through mantra or breath meditation along with selfy inquiry meditation. |
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DimWit
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2014 : 03:38:43 AM
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Thanks. But this is the vaguest answer and I think I expected this answer and should've mentioned in my OP that I am seeking something more tangible.
It's like a toddler can point out a tree in a picture but a 40 year old adult can't define a tree. (try it).
background : I am newbie. I have practiced Asanas for a long time, and then mantra meditation and SBP for more than a year. I see myself differently than I used to before starting these things. I see a shift in purpose of my actions i.e. they have sifted from 'I want to show it to some people' to 'I do it more as a matter of fact'. I also feel the blissful energy flows from root to 4th/5th chakra. I have seen 'awareness' of myself change during SBP/DM, although I can not define the change.
that path is clear. The practice is well defined.
But in what few books I've read, and in posts on forums, blogs etc., I see these words (witness, awareness, pure awareness, conscious awareness) beings used over and over. Although I have not come across a clear definition as yet. Hence these questions.
If I was to use the word 'awareness' as 'observation (awareness) of my thoughts' and if you were to interpret awareness as 'observing the world happening without them being affected by thoughts' , then we 2 can not be on same page even after years of practice.
Is witness the part of me which is observing (witnessing) the part of me which is observing the world, i.e. witnessing the observer ? Is witness the part of me which is observing the world ?
If these are supposed to vague terms, as in 'find it yourself', then that's ok. That will be the end of this path for me.... Let people continue talking whatever comes to their mind ( this awareness, that witness, my awareness, your awareness, conscious this and unconscious that,). .... I will call it B.S. and will stick to asanas, bandhas, mudras, SBPs etc. and it will work well along with some Bhakti, Karma.
but if there is more concrete way of looking at these terms in Jnaya path, then I will like to know.
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mathurs
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2014 : 07:20:05 AM
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Hi There,
You will find people using terms such as "witness" "pure bliss conciousness" " observer" etc interchangably. In terms of AYP - here- http://www.aypsite.org/324.html Yogani describes witness as "our native unconditioned awareness" and "the great blank screen behind the grand movie of our life"
If you read the Self Inquiry section of the main lessons and especially -http://www.aypsite.org/327.html - Evolutionary Stages of the mind - you will see what is deemed as the natural progression of a spiritual aspirant.
If you choose to ignore these terms and just carry on as you are - as you suggested above - nothing lost -it will lead you to the same place - because meditation is what develops and anchors the witness.
Even though one may understand it intellectually - it really makes more sense when one has experienced it and that is what TNTN was implying above.
Lots of  |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2014 : 1:07:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by DimWit
Thanks. But this is the vaguest answer and I think I expected this answer and should've mentioned in my OP that I am seeking something more tangible.
It's like a toddler can point out a tree in a picture but a 40 year old adult can't define a tree. (try it).
background : I am newbie. I have practiced Asanas for a long time, and then mantra meditation and SBP for more than a year. I see myself differently than I used to before starting these things. I see a shift in purpose of my actions i.e. they have sifted from 'I want to show it to some people' to 'I do it more as a matter of fact'. I also feel the blissful energy flows from root to 4th/5th chakra. I have seen 'awareness' of myself change during SBP/DM, although I can not define the change.
that path is clear. The practice is well defined.
But in what few books I've read, and in posts on forums, blogs etc., I see these words (witness, awareness, pure awareness, conscious awareness) beings used over and over. Although I have not come across a clear definition as yet. Hence these questions.
If I was to use the word 'awareness' as 'observation (awareness) of my thoughts' and if you were to interpret awareness as 'observing the world happening without them being affected by thoughts' , then we 2 can not be on same page even after years of practice.
Is witness the part of me which is observing (witnessing) the part of me which is observing the world, i.e. witnessing the observer ? Is witness the part of me which is observing the world ?
If these are supposed to vague terms, as in 'find it yourself', then that's ok. That will be the end of this path for me.... Let people continue talking whatever comes to their mind ( this awareness, that witness, my awareness, your awareness, conscious this and unconscious that,). .... I will call it B.S. and will stick to asanas, bandhas, mudras, SBPs etc. and it will work well along with some Bhakti, Karma.
but if there is more concrete way of looking at these terms in Jnaya path, then I will like to know.
No worries dimwit, take the path that is in front of you whichever it may be.
I was not purposefully being vague. However, these things are not easily explained and cannot be satisfactorily exchanged through words. They are beyond words and the intellect.
Nothing is concrete in yoga or in life 
All the practices, bandhas, SBP, asana, are forever changing.
In fact its our perspective that is always changing.
Here is the crux. Who is experiencing? Who has the perspective? Who am I?
With regard to the witness, awareness, etc, you will know it when you experience it. It is the unchanging universal identity of us all. Yes, the witness is the one observing us as we observe the world and what we think of as our self. The witness is us. It is our true nature, purusha.
Seek and you'll find. Just keep going with practices and the witness will flower in time. |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2014 : 2:29:54 PM
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Hi Dimwit,
Tonightsthenight's advice seems pretty solid to me, it does come with practice. However, there is perhaps something I could add here. As TNT said your experience of the witness or pure consciousness rises over time. That's the progress of a spiritual practitioner. But Pure Awareness is present in everyone's experience (or in fact, everyone's experience is present in Pure Awareness) whether they recognize it, or not - it's there as the basic knowing of their experience throughout their whole life. The basic capacity to be Aware.
Awareness is simply that which is right now Aware of your experience. Notice the sensations in your body - it's Awareness that is aware of the sensations, and aware of the mind's attention going towards the sensations. All experiences of thoughts, emotions, sensations, perceptions - it's Awareness which is Aware of them. We tend to think it's "me" "a body" that is Aware or Conscious. But if you look hard enough, you'll find its Awareness that is Aware, Consciousness that is Conscious - there's not a body or a me which is doing these things.
Awareness can't be grasped with the mind, but it can be "Pointed" to. Whether the spiritual practitioner experiences a sense of "ahhh!" recognition & joyful release of identification from the pointer depends on his/her level of inner silence - and this is just something accumulated by regular meditation.
I wrote these pointers for my own benefit a few months ago, if they work for you, you'll find your mind relaxing out of any attempts to grasp at understanding - realizing that Awareness is Aware and Present prior to the mind understanding anything.
Awareness is the state of being Aware.
It is the permanent context of experience, entirely distinct from the impermanent content of experience.
For example: Notice the sensations in your right hand.
Action: Flex the fingers, noticing the feeling of the sensations moving and changing. Now stop.
Was not Awareness, the state of being Aware, present before, during and after the appearance of the moving and changing sensations?
The sensations of “your right hand” were the impermanent, changing content of experience.
The state of being Aware was the permanent, changeless context of experience.
The presence of the context, Awareness, enabled the knowing of the content, Sensations.
Another example: Allow your body to slowly lean forward, and then slowly lean backward. Pay attention to the changing visual image that is seen.
As the body leans forward, the visual image appears to become larger.
As the body leans backward the visual image appears to become smaller.
The visual images moved and changed. They were changing and impermanent.
However, the state of being Aware, the permanent, changeless, context of experience, was present before, during, and after the changing visual images.
The presence of the context, Awareness, enabled the knowing of the content, Visual Images.
Pick out an item of food to taste, an apple, orange, or perhaps some chocolate.
Taste it, really notice and enjoy the taste.
Once again: Notice how the state of being Aware was present before, during and after the experience known as “Taste” or “Tasting” arose and disappeared.
Next: Pay attention to the thought of a pink elephant dancing.
Now simply draw attention away from thought, and to the breath.
Once again: Notice how Awareness, the state of being Aware, was present before, during and after the thought of a pink elephant dancing.
The presence of the context, Awareness, enabled the knowing of the content, Thought.
Thoughts, bodily sensations, visual images, emotions and anything which may be known, experienced or witnessed is in a state of constant movement and change.
Awareness, the state of being Aware, is the permanent, changeless context which illumines the constant flow of impermanent content.
Awareness thereby lends a sense of continuity to experience, as whilst the content of experience is constantly changing, the light of Awareness by which it is illumined remains constant.
Next: Try to resist Awareness being present. See if you can make an intense effort to somehow stop being Aware. Allow your entire body to become painfully tense from this effort to resist Awareness.
Once again: Notice how Awareness was changelessly present before, during and after a body-mind tried to resist it.
Notice therefore how Awareness or being Aware is not something a body-mind is doing. If a body-mind was ‘doing’ “being Aware” it would also be able to stop doing it.
But any attempt of a body-mind to somehow “stop being Aware” will simply be another temporary arising (impermanent content of experience) illumined by Awareness itself (permanent, changeless context of experience).
There are so many more insights if one really learns to recognize Awareness, but this starts you out.
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The thing that's useful to understand after all of that inquiry is that you can't point to some-thing and say "that's Awareness". Experience appears in Awareness, Awareness does not appear in Experience.
A visual image of a cup may appear within your consciousness, but you don't find your consciousness appearing in the visual image of a cup. In the same way, your body appears, or is experiencing within consciousness - but you won't find consciousness "within" your body.
Ultimately, Awareness and Experience are 'one' but when initially looking at experience, we've never noticed Consciousness or Awareness before - our attention has been entirely caught up in experience. Pointing like this allows our attention to cease going toward objects, and notice the context within which everything appears.
Pure Awareness = the context within which all experience is known, the basic state of being Aware, present whether one is a spiritual practitioner or not
Witness = experiences that arises from noticing that context of Pure Awareness (via spiritual practices or spontaneously), of Awareness as the changeless background |
Edited by - mr_anderson on Feb 11 2014 4:31:22 PM |
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DimWit
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2014 : 4:20:01 PM
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| Thanks for the replies. I appreciate it. It will take me a day to go through the links before replying. |
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DimWit
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2014 : 12:49:59 AM
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Thanks again TTN, Mathurs and Mr_Anderson.
I have realized that this self-inquiry is not for me if I am to do it forcefully. Of course it has happened on its own since i was a kid, thanks to people around me and books I came across. and it is happening automatically during this path. If I start doing it forcefully then I will spend rest of my life immersed in it and still find myself here. Give a self-inquiry seeker to a Guru and the Guru can spin a yarn so wicked that seeker will never know even after years of looking inside and then the Guru can say, "see ? it's so simple and you still don't get it".
A part of self-inquiry seems to be also cleansing the past (am I wrong here ?) but I no longer see the need to look in the past. A lot is resolved in mind and what's not resolved will get resolved down the road. What is there is now and the future. I can't live in the now because then I won't do anything for future. I've to work/plan/execute for future
but I am aware of now while I am doing so.
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What is awareness, witness, ?
