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MrSteroids1
Canada
72 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 08 2014 : 1:10:45 PM
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Are any of you on this forum enlightened/awakened/liberated? If you that is reading this has attained this level of perception, care to write down the story of how it happened as well as answering a few more questions?
How you felt before/after?
Did your perceptions shift in any way?
Do you enjoy your new state of being?
Do you still have a sense of personal self? (I am me, i am not this, i am not that)
You may add more information that hasn't been asked for.
Let's put into words what cannot be put into words. |
Edited by - MrSteroids1 on Jan 08 2014 3:00:36 PM |
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adishivayogi
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2014 : 4:26:08 PM
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| im not liberated but there are distinct moments i feel almost as if im inside myself. not sure if it has anything to do with enlightenment but im sure the practices are the cause of such "experiences"( i dont really see it as experience, more like my sense get heightened for a few moments and things are noticeably different) |
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MrSteroids1
Canada
72 Posts |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2014 : 9:10:37 PM
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Hi MrSteroids,
Thanks to AYP, the way I look at the process of liberation is to use yoga practices, and observe the results. Does the practice of meditation lead to inner silence? Does pranayama facilitate ecstatic conductivity? Do the practices of mudras and bandhas eventually integrate into Whole Body Mudra? Does self inquiry lead to a softening of separate self sense and a release into unity consciousness? Does pain result in suffering through identifying with the pain, or is it taken in stride, witnessed? I can say yes to progress in all these phases, but there is still much room to grow. I don't dwell constantly in pure bliss consciousness/awareness. I have energy blocks that need clearing. My presence with others is not as loving and as non-anxious as it could become.
In the past I have done some sharing in the "enlightenment milestones" section, mostly because perceived shifts where happening and it was so exciting that I wanted to share about it with someone. Lately, it seems my drive to share such accounts has dwindled. The rewards are internal and in daily life.
Yogani's books are an excellent guide to liberation. Implicitly, in writing such books, he is claiming an experience of enlightenment. The fictional Secrets of Wilder is both fantastical and practical. The other books are more about the "mechanics" of enlightenment. Rather than focus mainly on his own story, he is going a step farther. He is offering guidance so that anyone committed to reading the lessons and practicing can get on the path. I'm very grateful.
Namaste,
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Edited by - bewell on Jan 08 2014 9:24:08 PM |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2014 : 12:20:25 AM
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Couldn't say it better than bewell just did. Wow!
I think its all relative and what I once thought was the end of the journey was actually the beginning. Its just a different perception and point of view. Living for others, living from stillness, expressing our divine nature through this body and mind in the world.
Nothings changed, actually. Because I was always this. I just thought I was something else because the mind obfuscates the truth.
Its pretty crazy because I am nothing, I really don't exist. Not as a separate being. But for me there are still many periods where I get caught back in the web of Maya. And life still goes on and it is the same as abefore.
There's just a different perspective on everything. You are freed from this limiting concept of self. Oh, and dont forget the love and the bliss, regardless of ups or downs. |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2014 : 12:13:18 PM
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It is slowly dawning on me I am neither here nor there, yet everywhere at the same time. I will always be a work in progress.  |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2014 : 2:28:55 PM
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Tonightsthenight and Bewell said it very well. It's impossible for a person to claim "I am enlightened/awakened/liberated" without entering into a raging contradiction. On the other hand, I believe it's very important for people to openly discuss their experiences, even if this exposes them to criticism and ridicule, because this is useful for others, either in terms of inspiration, practical guidance (what works and does not work on the spiritual path), right understanding (making sense of one's experiences and understanding what enlightenment is about), and orienting themselves by learning from people who've had similar experiences.
I don't personally like the term "Enlightenment" because it's so vague it becomes a sort of Shangri-La panacea which people pin all their most longed for (and improbable) ideals upon. However a 'series of events' happened here that can be described as follows:
Personal Growth & Ethical Improvement
1. Age 19 began meditation. Did it regularly for past 10 years, twice daily for past 6/7 years.
2. Everything became calmer, clearer, happier, freer, less controlled by impulses and emotions, more influenced by inspiration and intuition - every year was sequentially happier than the previous year. Behavior became more and more kind and ethical, strong sense of integrity developed.
3. Did The Presence Process once a year from 2008 to 2012. This resulted in a total change in the way I related to my emotions. I went from resisting, controlling, manipulating emotions to utter non-resistance and openness to emotions. Also all emotional reactivity in relationships & life (allowing my speech and actions to be influenced by anger, fear and related emotions 99% stopped).
Insights
These were a sequential series of insights:
ANATTA (No-Self)
1. 2012: After searching for a "me", realized that my entire sense of self, "me", was merely a mental construct and no more. The sense of being a separate self gradually dissolved upon repeatedly seeing this. This doesn't leave one in some 'state' totally devoid of a sense of self, this would cause one to become dysfunctional in the world. It just makes the sense of self transparent, not something that is heavily identified with anymore.
Awareness of Awareness [Practice]
"Concentrate on the seer and not on the seen, not on the objects, but on the Light which reveals them." - Maharshi
2. 2012: At around this time, started to become Aware of Awareness. I noticed that when attention got preoccupied in flowing out towards apparent 'objects' such as thoughts, feelings and sense perceptions that suffering often ensued. I noticed that attention had an ability to rest on Awareness, instead of going out towards objects. I noticed that when attention rested on Awareness instead of going towards objects, Happiness and Bliss were constantly present. The method of bringing attention to rest on Pure Awareness is Viveka. Reading/listening to Direct Pointing of wide ranging teachers from Adyashanti, Peter Dziuban, Rupert Spira, Colin Drake combined with quotes from Nisargadatta and Ramana Maharshi solidified the ability of my attention to rest on Awareness instead of going outwards objects. The ability of attention to rest on Awareness depends upon three prior abilities:
a. Ability to completely Be Present with experience without clinging to or resisting anything
b. Inner silence developed through meditation
c. Knowledge and understanding, enabling one to discern between Pure Formless Awareness (the Knower) and Objects appearing to Awareness (the Known) learned through spiritual instruction from teachers and from developing a love of Awareness
Prajnyanam asmi (I Am Consciousness) [Knowledge]
"Realization consists in becoming deeply aware of the fact that you have never been in bondage." - Sri Krishna Atmananda Menon
3. 2013:
a. At first it seemed that "Awareness of Awareness" was a technique that a body-mind, Josh, would practice. When the technique was being practiced, joy, happiness and a harmonious way of being in the world would result. Sometimes it seemed the objects grabbed attention and I couldn't help but fall back into identification. At other times I'd be high as a kite, with all sense of separation completely blown away and everything pervaded by pure awareness.
b. Eventually, I gained the correct understanding via interaction with James Schwartz who said the "enlightenment is 100% confidence in the knowledge, based on direct experience, that 'I am limitless awareness'.
c. I just read that whilst browsing around on his website. But it was like being slapped in the face with a steel pipe. Instead of "Awareness of Awareness" being a practice that a person would do, the sense of identity peacefully shifted into being the Aware, Open, Completely Non-resistant space of formless Awareness.
d. This was permanent from that day onward.
e. "Realization consists in becoming deeply aware of the fact that you have never been in bondage." - Sri Krishna Atmananda Menon
f. You are the one witness of everything, and are always totally free. The cause of bondage is that one sees the witness as something other than this. - Ashtavakra Gita
f. You, Witnessing Awareness/Knowing, have never been in bondage. Realization just consists of
I) becoming aware of witnessing awareness via discernment (viveka)
II) developing an intense and passionate love of witnessing awareness/True Nature so that your attention loves Awareness so much that it doesn't really want to get involved with thoughts, emotions and other objects so much, it prefers to just rest as it is
III) understanding that you are always and forever that Witnessing awareness so never again is one deluded by the thought "I am the body"
VI) Giving up seeking, controlling and doership
Result
What is the result of this simple and practical love and understanding?
1.) End of fear. The root fear, whose root is survival, and emanates into a psychological self that does everything it can to protect itself has stopped. So anxiety and fear doesn't really occur much.
2.) End of unhappiness. Only thoughts claim that there are reasons why you should be unhappy. You, Pure Consciousness, are never deluded by these thoughts which say you should be unhappy.
3.) End of disharmony in relationships - true Ahimsa. Believing I am the body is the root of violence, knowing "I am pure consciousness" is true Ahimsa. If we identify as a body, our fundamental assumption is that other bodies are "not me". Therefore we enter into a cycle of believing we can harm and be harmed. Anger or Hurt arises when we believe the thought that claims someone is harming us. If Anger is present, we enter into Harming, purely by believing someone else is separate, not-me - this belief alone is harming them because it contains no recognition or insight into their true nature as pure love, Awareness. From this all harmful actions spring. I can't claim to be perfect in Ahimsa. Occasionally my mum annoys me a little bit and I get just a tiny bit frustrated for a few minutes. This is just being human. On the whole though, the way I see other people, through the eyes of Love and non-separation, has been totally radical. I feel this great inexpressible harmony, love, compassion with other living beings. For me I've always love the Bodhisattva ideal, to intend for all sentient beings to be free from suffering and unhappiness. It's this wish which guides my behavior today.
4.) Constant joyful or at least non-resistant experience of I Am Pure Consciousness. pervasive sense of freedom, present even when negative emotions are appearing or Josh is about to act again his better judgement due to his Vasanas.
The human being, Josh, is still totally fallible and probably a completely idiot. But his unhappiness and sense of separation are permanently gone. In it's place, is the permanent, joyful, blissful sense of Prajnyanam asmi.
Josh is experienced in his proper context, as a temporary dream in You (and also Me): Pure Formless Consciousness. A transient congegration of cells, atoms, energy, whose lifetime is merely a:
"flash of lightning in the sky,
rushing by,
like a torrent down a steep mountain"
(Buddha)
And in this, there is complete freedom to playfully engage in life with a totally light heart, free from dogma and beliefs, lovingly and with best intentions towards "others". Josh's spiritual growth continues, learning continues, life continues, constantly changing.
All I now wish for is for other sentient beings (including Josh) to be happy, and to do everything I can to aid (and avoid infringing upon) this inherent right.
Rather than enlightenment, I think "causeless, enduring happiness" is a better description for this state which is current and has been since around 2012, bar a few minor bumps. Spiritual practices & right understanding were both necessary for this path.
Things also go beyond this subtle duality of Knower/Known, into total collapse of distinctions. Would take too long to write anymore on this. |
Edited by - mr_anderson on Jan 10 2014 2:42:44 PM |
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BillinL.A.
USA
375 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2014 : 4:07:59 PM
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Glorious Mr. Anderson.
I'm so lucky to be around people like you. |
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MrSteroids1
Canada
72 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2014 : 12:24:35 AM
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| Oh wow, so it's like Yin and Yang merging into one, the creator(the one consciousness) and the creation(humans and more). Yes? |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2014 : 11:51:00 AM
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Amazing Josh.
Thank you very much. I can't say it any better than BillinL.A did. Thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by MrSteroids1
Oh wow, so it's like Yin and Yang merging into one, the creator(the one consciousness) and the creation(humans and more). Yes?
The One Consciousness is the same as your Awareness. When you sit and witness (become aware). Aware of your thoughts as objects that come and go but are objects. They are not you. You are the Awareness that never changes, that all things flow from and reside back into.
"Therefore awareness, which is what you truly are, is that which
perceives the mind, i.e. every thought. The mind (thoughts) is just an
object in awareness, ephemeral, subject to constant change and finally
death, as is the body. Pure awareness is changeless and eternal and is
what we all, at the deepest level, are. Any self-image you may have is
an illusion as it is also just an object in awareness and is ephemeral,constantly changing, which will also be destroyed on the death of the mind/body.
Naturally on the physical level we still have to live in this world and will be confronted with many problems. But most of our problems are psychological and of our own making. Once we realize that we are not any self-image and definitely not the mind then things fall into
perspective. The past stops haunting us, as from the point of view of
pure awareness it doesn’t exist. Any thoughts or emotions we may have
about it are just ephemeral objects which come and go.
So when we truly ask the question ‘Who am I?’ we find no thing. We
may realize that we are pure awareness but this is not a thing. It is that in which all things appear, exist and finally disappear. This realization of being nothing has wonderful consequences. For our self-image building is a running from the possibility of being nothing. On finally realizing that we are in fact nothing all images of ourselves and others crumble into dust. This does not cause suffering however, but only joy and bliss as we realize ourselves to be much greater than any thing. In fact we are that ground of being in which all things appear, exist and disappear."
From the book: Beyond the Separate Self by Colin Drake
**This is a great book. Thank you Josh.
"If you observe awareness steadily, this awareness itself as Guru will reveal the truth" - Ramana Maharshi
What you need is to be aware of being aware - Nisargadatta Maharaj
I am not enlightened. I still identify with the thoughts of the mind instead of Awareness. I did have a brief experience of being the Witness and from that experience I was me but I was not my thoughts. My thoughts did not become me. I was not the fear or the judgements that the brain (thoughts) were having. It was very freeing and fun to watch the thoughts come up and not attach to me. |
Edited by - jonesboy on Jan 11 2014 2:51:01 PM |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2014 : 5:30:02 PM
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Billin - haha thank you for your kind words but I am really nothing special, and thus the compliment is undeserved. There is still a lot I have yet to learn, and furthermore, there are still some Vasanas which sometimes take me away from firmly abiding in truth, so I don't want to present myself as anything I'm not, and I'm certainly not special in any way, shape or form. I hope that time, age, learning from experience and inner silence through meditation will eventually quietly dissolve all barriers. I do however feel that it's worth sharing the synthesized understanding I've garnered from various sources like Maharshi and Atmananda Menon, because the understanding (when combined with inner silence) can bring a permanent joy, end psychological suffering, and lead one to becoming a much more loving human being, even whilst one is still an unsteady sadhaka. There's a very strong desire in me to share this understanding, and a feeling of constant inspiration whenever I think about it, so I find it hard to keep quiet. I know there are people out there desperate to break through, and the right understanding can help. All I'd like to do is try and share my own research, in the same way one might share useful research on any other practical matter - like sharing an understanding of how to change a tire or fix a leaky pipe. It's my view that understanding how to be free from identification with form is simply a practical matter like this, though it does require considerably more sensitivity!
A lot of teachers have pointed at 'identification with form' as being the cause of suffering and absence of love towards all other beings.
"humans remain "unaware of their own essence and identify only with their own physical and psychological form" (4). "When you are no longer totally identified with forms, consciousness--who you are--becomes freed from its [imagined] imprisonment in form" (226)." - Eckhart Tolle
However Eckhart was a rather lucky example who just spontaneously became completely free, and whilst he has done so much good, his instructions for others to become free from identification are not always clear enough. Nisargadatta and Ramana mainly taught by Q&A, speaking to each student as he required, or in Ramana's case teaching by silence alone. So again there are some gems in their sayings, but there's a lack of a coherent system of knowledge and understanding that a hungry and ardent seeker might follow. It's much the case with many Advaita gurus who engage in direct pointing, with varying levels of success.
Sri Krishna Atmananda Menon actually taught a coherent system, The Direct Path, which consists on becoming Aware of Awareness and understanding that you are Awareness, and then deepening that understanding. In my view, the clearest Advaita teachers alive today, such as Greg Goode and Rupert Spira, are connected with the Atmananda Menon 'lineage'.
MrSteroids1 - Yes you could say that. However, I'd venture that rather than a merging occurring, one merely becomes aware the two were never in fact separate. "form is emptiness, and emptiness is form." Heart Sutra
Jonesboy - Thanks, and thanks for the Colin Drake quote! He's very clear and I'm glad you enjoyed the book. |
Edited by - mr_anderson on Jan 11 2014 6:51:17 PM |
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colin108
Australia
2 Posts |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2014 : 3:40:55 PM
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Welcome Colin!
I am sure I will thank you. |
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mathurs
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2014 : 05:34:03 AM
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MrSteroids, Thanks for opening this topic and gleaning such beautiful posts in response.
Mr Anderson - Thanks so much for sharing your insights and experiences. Very inspiring.
The prior abilities you mention are very important in my view - especially from personal experience. For a long time almost till late last year I would avoid even reading what was posted on the Jnana forums - including your posts 
It is not till you reach at least the periphery of witnessing ( the second stage that Yogani describes as within the 5 stages of mind) that words such as conciousness, awareness, witness even start making sense.
Thank You all. |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2014 : 09:47:19 AM
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Hi Mathurs,
Absolutely, I'm glad that you liked to read. The knowledge "I am consciousness" isn't really just an intellectual knowledge or understanding, the knowledge is itself an experience - one of being non-resistant openness to whatever is arising, a sense of being free from the appearances of both body and mind, and so on. When the knowledge roots in, the experience of being this non-resistant, empty, full, blissful, openness becomes permanent, and along with it, much joy and happiness.
Without the requisite inner silence, the knowledge can't root in properly. But on other hand, when you've had a few direct experiences that show you you are awareness, if the understanding & viveka is extremely clear it's very beneficial to becoming permanently rooted in the sense of inner freedom, one which isn't dependent on any particular passing state of Samadhi.
Even after this point, continued deepening of inner silence I feel adds great value, and allows the living embodiment of this inner freedom to gradually evolve into something which is in service of all - not merely happiness and freedom for just one body-mind.
Best wishes,
Josh |
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parvati9
USA
587 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2014 : 12:47:17 PM
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Nisargadatta fan here..
Jonesboy's Nisargadatta quote is key (imo). Although a page number hasn't been tracked down yet, this expanded version found online:
What you need is to be aware of being aware. Be aware deliberately and consciously, broaden and deepen the field of awareness. You are always conscious of the mind, but you are not aware of yourself as being conscious.
Also these quotes:
It is the taking yourself to be what you are not that binds you. (I Am That p. 143)
The art of meditation is the art of shifting the focus of attention to ever subtler levels, without losing one's grip on the levels left behind... It is definitely not a part-time occupation. (I Am That p. 412)
love
parvati |
Edited by - parvati9 on Jan 13 2014 12:58:57 PM |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2014 : 3:23:44 PM
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| Thanks Parvati, some nice quotes there. |
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pkj
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2014 : 3:43:04 PM
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| Amazing Mr. Anderson. Heart pouring divine love. Thanks for the enlightened verses. |
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colin108
Australia
2 Posts |
Posted - Jan 14 2014 : 12:01:28 AM
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Awareness is Forever Here
Awareness is forever here,
In which mind and sensations appear,
Its presence is fundamental,
Absolute not incremental.
Choiceless, requiring no effort,
The seer of all that's thought.
All that our senses detect,
On this conscious 'screen' are decked.
Completely still without a sound,
Of every experience the 'ground'.
Perfectly peaceful under no duress,
Ever silent and utterly motionless.
Omnipresent, of consciousness the ocean,
Manifestation is This in motion.
All 'things' are forms of energy,
Arising from Its tranquility.
Omniscient, in which all things abide,
From which not one can ever hide.
The conscious stillness relative to which,
All movements are 'seen' without a hitch.
Omnipotent, back into which all things subside,
Stillness is the terminus of every 'ride'.
No thing can possibly affect It,
For they all appear exist and exit.
Pure, for it manifestation cannot stain,
Pristine, for nothing is It's bain.
Radiant for by Its wondrous 'light',
The world appears to our minds's sight.
---------------------------------------------
From 'Poetry From Beyond The Separate Self'
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2014 : 9:18:11 PM
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I have been meditating since 1970, when I was 18, and spent a year with a Zen master. I'm 61 now, and between the ages of 22-25, spent 2 years living in an ashram, so my spiritual foundations were laid very deep and very long ago. I have kept up with my daily practices, gone on regular retreats, and lived a dharmic life for the past 44 years. I have climbed many spiritual summits and crossed many spiritual thresholds, and with each door I pass through, I find yet another path still ahead of me to travel! However, things do change--perception, experience, emotions, intellect and awareness have constantly refined, deepened, broadened and stabilized over the decades. These shifts are sometimes maddeningly gradual and sometimes alarmingly abrupt. I have, for my own benefit, needed to occasionally write about what is occurring to me, and have become somewhat of a literate chronicler of these many years of seeking. I blogged for several of the most dramatic years of my evolution, starting about 8 years ago. My blog begins here:
http://mikkiji.wordpress.com/2006/03/
Take your time exploring--there is a LOT there! Be sure to look at the "How I Got Here–My Path So Far…" story, the link is on the top right hand side. But a LOT of everything is contained in this one, early verse of mine, reproduced here:
Doing, Being & Smiling…
March 7, 2006
What Master Nippo taught me was so simple, so profound and so perfect, it has, in a way, made my life as a reflection of itself–simple, profound and perfect. I’m certain now that this was exactly how he taught. He buried his ideals under his students’ young innocent empty minds like seeds in the earth. He fertilized them with riddles and paradox, and they have grown there, matured, taken hold of my thoughts and actions until they have, finally taken over, opened blossoms like a flower. They have come to life and become my life. The only challenge has always been to live the Zen I was taught, not by Doing, but just by Being. I have begun to realize these ideals. And so, there is nothing to DO, it is necessary to only BE. There is no challenge. There is nothing. The ultimate message of Zen is: “Wake Up!”
Wake Up! Look–
Nothing else is there.
Break Everything! Look–
Infinity remains Everywhere.
Be Nothing–
Everything IS just as it is.
Let the World go–
Everything is already Right,
there is nothing to fix.
Wake Up! Look–
There is the Buddha…
Watch yourself watching. Now, stop watching.
What is left? Who is Watching?
There are no mistakes.
There is nothing to Do.
The Smile of God is Everywhere.
We need only to smile back…
I’m not professing perfection, only that I’ve spent 35 years with this advise that I must “wake up”, sprouting in my consciousness. Upon awakening, all is Light, and God smiles everywhere. When the smile of God, which is Light, is everywhere, then there is nothing else that needs to be done. It is only necessary to Be. It it important only to Live every single moment Now, in the present, Here, where I am, fully awake and fully aware. Then, Everything is Joy, even sorrow, and everything is Light, even darkness, and everything is Life, even death. God smiles, and I smile back–that’s me, with the big grin on his face. The trick is, to keep from laughing all the time. God smiles. You only need to see it–and it IS everywhere–and to smile back.
The biggest challenge in Life,
is always the Spiritual one–
To remain Centered.
To find the Happy
Strong, Aware, Loving,
Patient, Calm Self
who is always Right There inside you
and to turn THAT Self’s attention to “doing” your Life for you.
Then, THAT’S how there is nothing to do.
And THAT’S when you are smiling back.
We can enjoy every moment of our lives with the excitement of a child, the wisdom of a sage and the beauty of a poet. Then happiness runs about us and embraces us with joy, our toes dance the dance of life, our eyes see the light of bliss and our hearts fill with the love of Mother Divine. Let us celebrate by enjoying what is free and healthy and divine–the air, the water and the light of our creative intelligence, which we call our spirit. Elevate that, let yourself shine from that place within, and most of all…
Be Joyous.
Be thankful for the opportunity to live your life consciously and joyously. Do that and fear not–
None of us makes it out of this alive…
Namaste,
Michael |
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Govinda
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2014 : 2:42:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by MrSteroids1
Are any of you on this forum enlightened/awakened/liberated? If you that is reading this has attained this level of perception, care to write down the story of how it happened as well as answering a few more questions?
While I have been intrigued by this thread, thus far, I have remained silent. Every year from December 21st to January 21st, I am pretty quiet and very withdrawn. It's not a forced behavior, it just seems to happen of it's own accord. Who can say why? Anyhooo, a lot of wonderful thoughts have been expressed in this thread and I salute the many fine replies. Namaste and Happy New Year to you all! In fact, Happy New Now to you all, throughout your soul's journey, all year long! 
I'd humbly like to share a few ideas about "enlightenment" and the whole concept of it being a kind of attainment, a journey of awakening or a methodological process (or "mechanism"). I honestly feel that ultimately, it cannot be so. From a relative standpoint, yes it surely can, for there are valid pathways and there are proven practices taught for countless centuries now, to help one arrive to the very summit of human conscious-awareness.
Yet paradoxically, one of the first things we need to let go of is the notion and fallacy, that the separate self or ego-mind can become enlightened. For the ego or the isolated self, is like the darkness, wholly unreal. If by "enlightenment", we mean the removal of the veil of human ignorance, I guess this makes some modicum of logical sense and is true. But when we expand our attention beyond any lines or membranes of personal division, we understand that IT IS WHAT IT IS. Our "mechanism" is therefore, a self-extinguishing process, our fusion within the Supreme Being. And thus, it is beyond any subjective description.
When the effulgence of the God-light is revealed from within oneself... there is no more darkness, there is no individuality possible. The illusory mesmerism of our separate existence is dissolved as suddenly as if one were awakening from a dream sequence (had for reasons beyond finite quantification, by Brahman/God/Allah). There is only the singularity of the One Being, an indivisibility of pure beingness, an Omni-consciousness (or Omnislef, if you will)... and despite our own mirages of being this or that, we are each of us wholly Divine entities. We exist as we always have existed, regardless if we knew it or not... unbound and Infinite, limitless and Absolute, timeless and Eternal. All is One! The One is within all, as the All-In-All. 
The sheer irony is that we cannot as individuals, grasp for the state of enlightenment. Wisdom shatters the dreamscapes we habituate within and the price for Moksha is as we all know, ego-death. It is beyond any subject-object dynamic. We simply need to SEE this reality behind the appearances, to instantly know this monumental Truth. To realize that everything is God and therefore, naught exists save the Sacred Presence of Brahman, whose expressions dance freely within this seeming play and cycle of cosmic forces. That alone is imperishable. The bloom of Allah is what is always happening and that is what we all are... Divinity playing hide and seek with itself (again, for reasons which totally defy any subjective or relative quantification).
quote:
How you felt before/after?
Did your perceptions shift in any way?
Do you enjoy your new state of being?
Do you still have a sense of personal self? (I am me, i am not this, i am not that)
For the record, I do not believe I am "enlightened". I say this for several reasons but primarily because I no longer believe that I even exist, at least, not as an isolated part of the whole. The only realities which hold the Mego together are: the material body, the astral and casual bodies and the awareness that duality manifests in myriad ways and can be observed from a fixed point within this transient, tiny little bubble in the time-space-continuum. It would seem that all streams of being are tributaries of one measureless current, the same, symbiotic Spiritus, the very same Divine Breath flowing through the myriad realms. One Holy Word resounds, oscillating and vibrating endlessly, from a level which resides with all other levels and rings out perfectly, creating all of the countless planes of existence, occurring in one single moment.
In other words, it such a Grand Paradox, that it cannot truly be spoken of. Well, at least not "spoken of" without creating more dimensions to the misconception and dichotomy of self and other. If we entertain the revelation that only God exists, pulsing as the central, "I Am That I Am"... things get quite a bit more symmetrical in nature (AKA; the Mirror of the Soul).
So, just who experiences ecstatic bliss, upon the immersion within the Omnislef, this shifting and self-devouring attunement? When the Eclipsing occurs, the knower and the known merge and there is no duality, no movement or creation of division. What and where is the Self... if all that exists is the Self? Everywhere and nowhere, both or neither? Is Brahman/God/Allah the empty point of zero, the vortex of formlessness and substanceless-ness, Clear Light of The Void? Atma is in minutest quintessence, the vacuum of Anatma? No mind can hold the totality, no self remains forever fixed... as only the Divine remains ever, unchanged and ineffible.
Who awakens to realize that this universe is naught but the expression of the Divine? In essence, all we have is the fleeting transition from being lost in the illusion of selfhood... and the silence whihc allows no self whatsoever. What exists without a self to witness reality? Everything and nothing at all, eh?
Such is the nature of Sahaja Samadhi, which as it exponentially blooms, effectively stops the mind in it's restless tracks... and magically erases the internal witness' dialog, as such a centered degree of concentration and single-pointedness, pierces the mind-lock and mesmerism of individuated phantom delusions. This logically, facilitates a pause in our innate habit of measuring and labeling everything we perceive.
Such subjectivity is the only barrier that divides one thing from another, as it is wholly illusory. The absence of the quantifier or the watcher... allows for the Gnosis that we are One, to expand and freely blossom. The Indivisibility of the Absolute is perceived for a single moment... then utter stillness resides, undisturbed by any observation. Who can ever really say what this state is like?
Venerable Lao Tzu was most correct, as was his contemporaries, Socrates and Gautama Buddha. What can we know of the Supreme? One cannot simultaneously be awake and asleep, right? Mind cannot be both finite and Infinite, relative and Absolute, transient and Eternal. Or can it? I emphatically admit, I do not know. I sincerely believe that no one ever can, as each paradigm is superseded by the next. The destination is undoubtedly the journey. Now, herein lies the Greatest riddle of them all... just who watches the watcher, watching him/herself... watching him/herself? Just who is there that even sees, feels or thinks anything at all? Mystery of mysteries. It may just be that God created the many to discover the mirror of oneness and play for a period for the sheer fun of the game?
Obviously we cannot judge the Divine with anthropomorphous values. Thus, it cannot be known. It can only be reflected and echoed from deep within each soul. This focus and attunement draws the attention to the core silence within all of this existential play, spontaneously harmonizing to the measureless bliss of Unity.
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You may add more information that hasn't been asked for. Let's put into words what cannot be put into words.
I really love how you clearly state this profound idea! It's like trying not to try... and how can this be accomplished? While it cannot be feasibly done, we do continue to speak and we do take up the pen and enthusiastically write. Great sages have given illuminating Satsangs for millenniums and it is still the same, even today. Perhaps our efforts to unite the Self and the Divine, are their own fruits? Our earnest sadhana but the unfolding of our natural state? Can we taste the Amrita of universal love? Yes, yes, yes!!! And who doesn't love to share their tastiest candy with infinite reflections of their own self? Who loves and who shares with whom? Who indeed... within enraptured silence, no questions arise. 
Tat Tvam Asi |
Edited by - Govinda on Jan 22 2014 8:03:53 PM |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2014 : 4:59:00 PM
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Dear MrSteroids1,
Very reluctant to take the bait here; responding to these kinds of questions in the past has sometimes resulted in troll attacks. And, as MrAnderson and Govinda have pointed out, there is an inherent contradiction in the sentence "I am enlightened" because enlightenment consists in part of realizing that "I" is illusory. So, obviously, "I" can make no claims to "enlightenment."
Also, my teacher frowns on the whole idea of "enlightenment" as a state to be achieved; rather, the yoga practice is a means to ENJOY our "Natural State" here and now, not a mechanism to attain some ideal state in the future. When I met with him and inquired, "What has happened to me?!" he smiled and reassured me, but then in the next breath said sternly, "but, I hate it when people like Eckhart Tolle go around talking about it because that reinforces the notion that 'enlightenment' is something to be attained!" I had never heard of Eckhart Tolle so I didn't know what he was referring to. Anyway, like my teacher, I tend towards the Advaita approach in so far as, we're already Free, we just haven't realized it yet. So the yoga practice is more a process of taking away the veils so we can perceive it, rather than making us into something we aren't already; kind of "relaxing into our Natural State."
However, having said that, I do feel Free and my entire reality has totally changed. I say "I feel Free" simply because the burden of my existence has been lifted, like I was carrying it around my whole life, the heavy burden of myself!! Now still aware of "myself" but as a mere functional construct, like a translucent interface through which the One manifests and interacts through this personality, this unique perspective, in the human drama. A feeling of relief, Grace, gratitude, lightness. very hard to put into words...
Some of us have discussed this in great depth in the Enlightenment Milestones section. Here are my contributions to that thread: My Reality Has Totally Changed and Abyss of Ecstasy (which includes link to Thanks Shanti!). These posts answer your questions, I think.
Overall the best part for me is the constant palpable Presence of God, and Divine Love pouring through every cell of my body. Call it whatever you like, the label doesn't matter; I'm just sharing my personal experience of how yoga can indeed change our life.
I briefly perused the 3 links you provided, above, and would agree although admittedly didn't read them in great detail.
But, Yogani has explained the process very clearly, here:
Enlightenment Milestones
Lesson 85, Enlightenment Milestones Revisited
As Govinda said, above,
"Our sadhana but the unfolding of our natural state? Can we taste the Amrita of universal love? Yes, yes, yes!!! And who doesn't love to share their tastiest candy with infinite reflections of their own self? Who loves and who shares with whom? Who indeed..."
I hope the above is helpful/inspiring or at least enjoyable, versus contributing to an incorrect or limiting view of "enlightenment."
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Edited by - Radharani on Jan 22 2014 5:01:48 PM |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2014 : 9:52:30 PM
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As Lao-tze so carefully phrased it, "Those who know, do not talk. Those who talk do not know." It's always been a loaded question, and direct responses or specific claims to this supposed "state" must always be cast into doubt. I merely serve to witness and narrate my own long spiritual journey--neither saint nor sadhu, just an ordinary American householder. All I can claim to be is "on my path" for over 40 years. Maybe it helps shed some light, maybe not...
Michael |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2014 : 3:08:08 PM
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Really enjoyed this discussion. Thanks a lot for sharing and chronicling your path and experiences Mikkiji. I'm definitely going to take the time to read through your site in detail. I'd actually been longing for a long time to read a personal journal of someone who chronicles their path and the progression over time, so I'm pretty excited to hear about your website.
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Also, my teacher frowns on the whole idea of "enlightenment" as a state to be achieved; rather, the yoga practice is a means to ENJOY our "Natural State" here and now, not a mechanism to attain some ideal state in the future.
Thanks for sharing that Radharani. I feel an inner resonance with this type of view. Kirtanman once said to me, when we were discussing some experiences, "There are no enlightened people, only enlightened moments". For me that makes sense. "Me" the person is definitely not enlightened. But Pure Awareness, or our natural state, or whatever terms one wishes to refer to it, is always enlightened. Our natural state is never in bondage, neither does it need liberation.
If you imagine enlightenment to be some far off state of super-perfection, what is that? Just another thought saying there's something you need in the future in order to be free or happy. Without believing that thought, which impinges on the perfection of the moment, claiming you're limited and in bondage, you (Awareness, not the person) are already free. Recognition of this is happiness itself.
Our natural state is already free even in the midst of our humanness and imperfection. It doesn't require a human being to enter some sort of perfected state at some time in the future so it can be free, its freedom is unconditional, right here and now. So by coming to know our (Awareness's) own unconditional freedom, we can be happy, at peace and free Right Now. The natural state is already free, even whilst we, like every other human being alive, try our hardest to do the best we can with what we've got.
The result of this isn't anything special or any crazy spiritual experience, it's just a gentle happiness, peace and feeling of freedom that doesn't go away no matter what is playing out on the screen of experience. Atmananda Menon said "Every man is a Jivan Mukta (inwardly free whilst living in the world) he has only to know it". It's not the person that's free, it's your true nature, the natural state, which is free from the person.
There's a freedom available here and now, by just stopping and relaxing out of anything you're believing, and leaving behind any thought which takes one away from the inherent freedom, peace and happiness in the present moment. That's good enough for me, along with doing my best to make sure other people are happy too, and that my words or actions are never a cause of unhappiness for anyone, and that the thoughts which contain some sort of anger or sense of separation or whatever are seen and released.
Of course the contrary view to this is that we are all, always moving closer to growth, learning and perfection. Thus best to just keep our heads down, do our practices, and keep learning and hopefully getting a bit wiser in the process. An infinite journey of expansion and wisdom, moving closer and closer to a more enlightened way of living and being in the world. Both views have something good to offer us. |
Edited by - mr_anderson on Jan 24 2014 7:17:01 PM |
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MrSteroids1
Canada
72 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2014 : 8:40:14 PM
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I'll try to describe enlightenment with my own words.
It's Yin and Yang spinning so quickly that they appear to be One, and do act as One. The Creator and the Creation. You become a self aware limb of God. Because God and us are not separate, we are in essence a piece of It. He took a piece of himself, put it into an unbreakable seal that he called individuality and said "You now are my children, go and live the world I made for you. Once you are ready, you will come back to me."
A "normal" point of view is, you point at yourself and you say "this is me". You point at something else and say "this is not me". You are the individual seal, the children of God.
An enlightened point of view is, everything you point toward is a part of you since you and God are One, and God is all that which we can perceive. Our self and the world are One, we perceive ourselves through the seal of individuality.
You are separate until you realize that you never were.
Either this individuality is an illusion or a reality stays a mystery to me. |
Edited by - MrSteroids1 on Jan 31 2014 10:40:27 PM |
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Analytical discussion: The mechanics of enlightenm
