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kami
USA
920 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 30 2013 : 9:50:42 PM
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For about two weeks, there had been a building up of something "big".. Every time I sat for my sadhana, I would have flashes of images, both of recent and the distant past of being self-absorbed. Finally, the day before Thanksgiving, it sort of "exploded" into a deep clarity, waves of horror, love and understanding simultaneously washing over me. And the perspective it has given is difficult to describe, but I will try..
What is self-absorption? To me, it is the filtering of all experiences (internal and external) through the "I" lens. It is not that this was not seen before, but it appears that there are ever-deepening levels of this seeing, getting subtler and subtler over time. However, as long as that I-ness remains, there is no true service (karma yoga), or even surrender. But this subtle identification is very hard to see - every thought, emotion, interaction with another, action and intention is colored by this I-ness.. Although shifts out of this identification happen on and off, most of us do not remain out of its grip for too long. Even sharing experiences or viewpoints in a satsang like this is subtly colored by "my" opinion that comes from "my" conditioning, often so subtle that it is entirely missed, particularly by the practitioner.
And so it was with me.. And perhaps it will return.. But the magnitude of the opening is staggering (has been here) - in every thought, action or interaction that has come up since then, there is a softening/melting, where the "I" with all its stuff is kept aside and the actual experience is lived through, fully. There is a deep connection with what is happening at the moment, in a 360 degree type of totality, intimacy as I have never known. And deeply humbling, for I see now how incompletely I've lived up until now.
In this, I've come to understand what tantra really is. It is this totality of experience; in the tantric way of life, absolutely nothing is rejected or complained about, for all such rejection is sure proof that the "I-ness" is very much alive and thriving. Every last bit is the manifestation of the Divine Mother, no matter how far out, difficult, ridiculous, profane or heinous. This way of life is that of total surrender without question. And it needs to happen at a very subtle level, where there is nothing but total honesty with oneself, and the willingness to see. I've come to see how pretty much every action thus far has been self-centered at this deep, subtle level.. But this time, the Divine Mother seems to have taken away the sharp pain and self-criticism that comes with such clarity, and instead has given me the vision to see that I am absolutely no different than anyone else and this is the common affliction of all of humanity.
The peace accompanying this opening is beyond description - maybe spirituality is about all sorts of elevated experiences and great wisdom, but the arriving back at the intimate union with the unfolding present moment isn't elevated or mystical. It simply is. Pure, innocent, unadulterated..
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Edited by - kami on Dec 01 2013 07:18:18 AM |
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2013 : 06:21:18 AM
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Thank you very much for sharing kami!
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2013 : 07:44:06 AM
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Thank you kami, beautiful
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2013 : 08:59:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by kami
absolutely nothing is rejected or complained about, for all such rejection is sure proof that the "I-ness" is very much alive and thriving.
Ah, man! So I must give up my right and privilege of complaining! Wait a minute, I think I'm gonna bail from this spiritual enlightenment trip. I love complaining to God! 
Seriously though, I think the I-ness will be alive and thriving so long as the body is. Maybe when the body perishes, no more I-ness. But until then, I'm pretty sure the I-ness sticks around. It's just that the I-ness becomes more oriented towards Us-ness, or We-ness, or One-ness. Like that.
But then again, some of the Advaita teachers speak in a way that seems to represent a complete absence of any I-sense, so maybe the soul will leave the body (while the body is still alive), merge with the Infinite, and the body will only be a puppet, a memory, a shadow of the now enlightened soul that has completely transcended the I-ness. The rest of us un-enlightened bodies will be entertaining the delusion of a separate person, but the enlightened person, being devoid of I-ness, will be gone, gone, gone. Gone into Infinity, where there is no I-ness, only the One??
I'm such an apprentice, a newbie, a fledgling creature in the spiritual game--that I cannot relate to being completely devoid of I-ness. However, I can relate to an expansion of I-ness encompassing us-ness, we-ness, one-ness. And I think you beautifully and eloquently articulate that reality of unity, harmony and balance when you say things like:
But this time, the Divine Mother seems to have taken away the sharp pain and self-criticism that comes with such clarity, and instead has given me the vision to see that I am absolutely no different than anyone else and this is the common affliction of all of humanity.
That is very profound, and I can feel that on a deep, and very subtle, level.
So, thank you. Very illuminating.
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2013 : 11:15:29 AM
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Dear Bodhi,
This has nothing to do with losing individuality or modern Advaita teachers.
It has to do simply with the filtering of experience through the I lens. As a possible example, it is this very interaction - I write about a subtle experience, you filter it through your lens of your knowledge and disdain for modern Advaita teachers and what arises is a distorted interpretation. What I was explaining was simply putting aside that knowledge, aversion, or "I know" ness to rest in the experience, totally innocent. Simply allowing, in this example, of the other's expression without adding or taking away from it with the "I" or "let me tell you how I see it". And in such freshness of simply being, there is spontaneous arising of the "we-ness" that you talk about. For, lo and behold, the moment I set aside "my" stuff, every experience is true for me. There is nothing that is not mine..
Not that there can be no discussion arising from it. Far from it. When I allow things to arise in innocent curiosity, I am like a joyful child, absorbing every little thing, expanding and collapsing simultaneously.
Again, hard to explain it..
Love and hugs to you. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2013 : 12:30:28 PM
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Ohhhhh. I get it. I feel totally exhilirated and satisfied, having been put in my place. Honestly, I'm being sincere. There is this balanced Oneness I can sense, in which the boundaries of individuality (separate opinions, colorations, disdains, attractions, etc.) are still held intact, even though there is this transparent flow of adjoining Spirit connecting us. So, it's like we get the best of both worlds as we continue to connect on ever-more deepening levels. Spiraling, spiraling, spiraling into more pure, unfiltered Oneness.  |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2013 : 12:32:50 PM
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Hi Kami,
Thanks for your post, I enjoyed reading
quote:
It is not that this was not seen before, but it appears that there are ever-deepening levels of this seeing, getting subtler and subtler over time.
Completely relate to this, this is the experience here too. As one simple example: There's a profound clarity over past year of the distinctness between a) how someone else appears, act, behaves, speaks etc and b) the thoughts, feelings, reactions, responses of the body-mind "Josh" to the "other person". A) The 'other' person and B) Josh's conditioned/filtered response to them are seen as so completely distinct that any thought/feeling/response of 'Josh' that is colored by separateness/I-ness is immediately seen without identification and released. Nothing less than Love (which I like to define as the absence of thinking/feeling anything/anyone is Not-Me/Separate) is a credible/believable response. One can feel the unpleasant resonance of any conditioned internal response to someone/something which arises out of I-ness/separation. To see others/the world as separate is suffering, to divide experiencing into me/not me is suffering. There's a lot more, but no need for me to go on about it.
quote:
Even sharing experiences or viewpoints in a satsang like this is subtly colored by "my" opinion that comes from "my" conditioning, often so subtle that it is entirely missed, particularly by the practitioner.
It's a tricky one the sharing of experiences. To share an experience one first has to use thought to conceive of oneself as "a person who has experiences" or "a person who has arrived at X understanding/level/state/realization", make-believe in the conventional reality of linear time & memories, and hence what comes out is inevitably dualistic and colored by some i-ness / me-ness. I think it's very hard to share experiences without entering into this. Then furthermore, one might have to respond to the million other ways that people filter what we share through their own conditioned responses. Yet at the same time, I've personally always found it immensely inspiring to read about other peoples experiences, particularly on early stages of path, as when I started out it kindled faith that awakening was a practical possibility, not just mumbo-jumbo. Now I enjoy people sharing out of joy for them, loving other people to be happy and have openings.
I've generally decided to just keep quiet about "my" experiences and viewpoints, unless there's a strong intuitive feeling that I should share something, and perhaps update annually or every few years on AYP. There's a deep desire experienced here (that I feel comes from Truth) to share and communicate the immense freedom, love and happiness that's practical, possible, not dependent on external conditions, and available for everyone who is prepared to practice regularly, devote themselves, and deeply explore "What Am I?". Hopefully such sharing is inspiring and encouraging for other people with similar inclination. |
Edited by - mr_anderson on Dec 01 2013 12:42:02 PM |
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BillinL.A.
USA
375 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2013 : 2:33:54 PM
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I promise Mr Anderson that I and I'm sure many, many others here are inspired and encouraged to follow in your footsteps and the footsteps of others here who generously post about their feelings of "immense freedom, love and happiness."
Yogani's forum is so awesome. |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2013 : 3:13:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Ohhhhh. I get it. I feel totally exhilirated and satisfied, having been put in my place. Honestly, I'm being sincere. There is this balanced Oneness I can sense, in which the boundaries of individuality (separate opinions, colorations, disdains, attractions, etc.) are still held intact, even though there is this transparent flow of adjoining Spirit connecting us. So, it's like we get the best of both worlds as we continue to connect on ever-more deepening levels. Spiraling, spiraling, spiraling into more pure, unfiltered Oneness.
Your place is in my heart, my dear Bodhi. Thank you for this lovely dance. |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2013 : 3:30:38 PM
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Thank you for sharing Josh. Yes, it is exactly that type of lens I'm describing!
The thing about sharing is that it is necessarily steeped in duality.. And the only thing we can really see is the spirit that makes us respond - is it to prove "my" point, or to subtly place myself in a place of superiority, or is there genuine curiosity and openness to simply share in the other's experience? Do I want to add to it or just remain in that place of not forcing, not knowing, open and free of "my-ness"? Only I can know that, and only if I'm willing to see down to the core..
And you're right.. I have gone thru times when I've felt like not sharing because of misinterpretations that lead to more and more explaining - until I realized that that unwillingness was the doorway to seeing past the resistance of not wanting to deal with it.. And simply writing here, since then, has become a spiritual practice - closely watching the stuff that arises within myself in response to others' stuff.. And so I now share as I'm led to from the heart, without an agenda to prove anything.. Not even that someone may benefit from such sharing..
Much love to you my dear Josh. |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2013 : 5:04:53 PM
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quote:
I promise Mr Anderson that I and I'm sure many, many others here are inspired and encouraged to follow in your footsteps and the footsteps of others here who generously post about their feelings of "immense freedom, love and happiness."
Thanks Billin
Thanks Kami - I continue to learn from you and enjoy your sharings. |
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Govinda
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2013 : 12:16:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kami
What is self-absorption? To me, it is the filtering of all experiences (internal and external) through the "I" lens. It is not that this was not seen before, but it appears that there are ever-deepening levels of this seeing, getting subtler and subtler over time. However, as long as that I-ness remains, there is no true service (karma yoga), or even surrender. But this subtle identification is very hard to see - every thought, emotion, interaction with another, action and intention is colored by this I-ness.. Although shifts out of this identification happen on and off, most of us do not remain out of its grip for too long. Even sharing experiences or viewpoints in a satsang like this is subtly colored by "my" opinion that comes from "my" conditioning, often so subtle that it is entirely missed, particularly by the practitioner.
Yes! I experience something quite similar... although, there simultaneously dawns an understanding that the I-thought, the ego-identification... is wholly unreal. The ideas arise and if the I-thought claims them as I/me/myself, these ideas crystallized into a defined form and structure of pragmatic thinking and quantification, about Mego's subjective observations, about this or that. 
The most paradoxical and challenging aspect of such an experience, is that just who understands itself as impermanent, transitory, unreal and illusory? The idea forms as a cohesive knowledge of something most ineffable, yet wholly tangible, completely ONE (Brahman/God/Allah). The idea then forms as I am an existential being, a witness to life, the indweller of this personal movie... a subjective observer of the revelation of, "I Am that I Am"... but which self (if any) knows that itself is also, totally unreal? Who contemplates it's own existence, when all is essentially the mirage of Maya?
Just who is Jivatman? Who is Paramatman? Jivatman is Paramatman, is Brahman, ad infinitum. Therefore, who is NOT Paramatman/Brahman? Yet, there is no permanent self. Who is Anatma? Who is Not Anatma? I guess it's the mysterious way of the human mind, forever engrossed in questioning? Endlessly chasing it's own tail, like a puppy in a ceaseless encircling... or better yet, Oroboros devouring itself, even as it manifests more and more of itself. Such a paradox! Deep and intriguing stuff to ponder!
In other words, the impression appears of perceiving the world outside of us, as well as the intricacies of the world deep within us. And the inside and the outside are mirrors of themselves, no? And if we hold to our concentration and become still enough... we reach that quintessentially silent pause... that enraptured realm of the formless Void, unmanifest in sheer stillness. In such a state, who really exists, at all?
"God alone exists", says the subtle mind! But it's still the passing show of Brahman's dreamscape. As all is a singular phenomenon and God alone is... for we are also Brahman's dream-sequence. And knowing this is the greatest riddle in life, for it cannot be simultaneously known and equally transcended as subjective knowledge. So, we meditate and we earnestly train ourselves to cultivate internal peace and universal harmony. But we are already God and need do nothing at all, or go anywhere at all... for we awaken to recall this Divine Truth. We open spontaneously and blossom, but to shine our love-lights, ever so brightly!
When we definitively know that philosophically and metaphysically, we do not really exist (as separate individuals), as God alone exists... thus, our mid stops dead in it's tracks. Thoughtlessness blooms and Ananda is experienced directly, our attention shifts into Unity, as the only reality, the only eternal, ever-lasting Truth. So, we realize that we are each if us, Brahman/God/Allah... right? But conversely, when we claim that we know that we are all Divine Being and that we surely do exist, here and now... for we are creating the dream bubble of the I-thought.
We voluntarily open the door to manifestation and a clearly defined selfhood. So, we are each of us, manifesting Brahman's idea of being existent in this present moment. And who does this miracle? I honestly do not know. The AUM sound rings forth, it's oscillations vibrating reality before the Eye of the I AM. And the inner Light shines effulgently so! 
And when I believe I do know... I dream I am this or that entity, with karma intact and samskaras aplenty. Mego's last stand! I suspect that Brahman does not know Brahman's own self, save for, as our individual self-knowledge blooming into it's own being. And as it may manifests itself as Nataraja's Cosmic Dance... yet, whose dance is it, really?
Obviously, it is Brahman's dance, Brahman's dreamscape, forming in the mindscape of the indwelling I-thought, itself witnessing the clearly defined things, appearances and structures within the time-space-continuum. But without us... who sees this universal play? Without the darkness of ignorance, how can the effulgence of wisdom have any real meaning or give substance to the witness of this miraculous phenomenon, we all share? I am beginning to feel that God chooses to manifest this infinite loop, this cycle of coming out of the darkness and returning into the light. It's technically, not a theory this self which the I-thought inhabits and maintains... nor a rational hypothesis... It Is As It Is. Lila? Yes, the Sacred play becomes whatever it becomes and then, once-more departs into the Clear Light of the Void.
quote:
In this, I've come to understand what tantra really is. It is this totality of experience; in the tantric way of life, absolutely nothing is rejected or complained about, for all such rejection is sure proof that the "I-ness" is very much alive and thriving. Every last bit is the manifestation of the Divine Mother, no matter how far out, difficult, ridiculous, profane or heinous. This way of life is that of total surrender without question. And it needs to happen at a very subtle level, where there is nothing but total honesty with oneself, and the willingness to see.
Acceptance is a big, big part of our spiritual awakening, I agree! allowing the process to unfold naturally and gracefully. Surrendering to the eternal flow of seeming events and the endless changes taking shape, from moment to moment, as we are carried along for the ride.
And I concur, it is all Ma's Supreme doing. It's only Her Sacred expression appearing all about us, as us. Thus, we cannot claim it as our own, for who are we? If we do not exist and Brahman/God/Allah alone exists... such declaration and possession of some subjective individuality, is another illusion we dream-up. Or do we own this dream, at all?
Surrender effectively burns us into so much Sacred ash, so mcuh charred confetti, blown away by the winds of the universal flow. The Tao is... it comes and goes... it shifts from this something, into that nothingness. Who are we to surrender, if we are That? I often wonder about such an oxymoron, such perplexing intellectual gymnastics, played out by the mind of the observer of oneself.
quote:
I've come to see how pretty much every action thus far has been self-centered at this deep, subtle level.. But this time, the Divine Mother seems to have taken away the sharp pain and self-criticism that comes with such clarity, and instead has given me the vision to see that I am absolutely no different than anyone else and this is the common affliction of all of humanity.
The peace accompanying this opening is beyond description - maybe spirituality is about all sorts of elevated experiences and great wisdom, but the arriving back at the intimate union with the unfolding present moment isn't elevated or mystical. It simply is. Pure, innocent, unadulterated..
And I am tempted to call this phenomenon, "Ananda". As I witness it's effulgent bloom, whoever I am behind this facade of self, I fall away from the clearly defined certainty of knowing this or that. The energy surges into a most palpable, blissful state and in such a trance-state/higher frequency... freedom resides. And in so doing or undoing, I am wholly lost to nay self. I do not exist, nor do I have any body. The I-thought is stilled and No-mind resides in the purity of deepest quietude. This frequently occurs as an ecstatic blossoming and shifts the attention from outer-self, to inner-self, to no-self at all.
Ironically, I return to myself. I ground this epiphany and it settles within my mind's heart. I am almost desiring to say I have had this uber-sublime experience, this enrapturement... but the remembrance lingers on... and I emphatically do not know who I am. Sure, I think I am a human being, who is a part of the totality of Godself... yet, in all truth, I do not fully believe that I exist at all. Often I cannot find myself. I cannot hold onto Mego. The compression hurts too much. Most of this journey is about manifesting a solid enough self-state to function properly within the dichotomy of this material universe. Part of Mego prefers to be fully enveloped within the Divine trance-state, euphorically undoing the doing. Drinking the Amrita and merging into the Indivisible Godhead. Absolute Silence is... here and now.
I wrote this little poem when I was 22 years old. "There is no self to whihc I cling, for I am one with everything."
I am the reflection of what is, what exists and is Infinite in it's own free nature. But I am seemingly still struggling to find a self to hold, fast to. Why? I honestly do not know. I guess much has to do with being within a material body, possessing a soul inherent within this physical vessel whihc holds itself fragilely intact? And I joyfully share much of your deep insight and "enlightenment" about knowing that all knowledge is sheer mental illusion.
Who watches the watcher, watching itself, watch itself? Who indeed?
I am still spiraling around and around, within this thought-loop. when silence arrives into focus. .. no thoughts appear and nothing is even sought. When the body itches or get hungry, the I-thought takes center-stage and commands ego-self to perform it's acts. It simply does it's dance. Am I Nataraja? And am I you? Are we all the same Being? Yes, and when I believe I am this or that person, this is surely so. We are all of us, singular aspects of the Unified Field of Being.
We are all Brahman/God/Allah, as naught else exists. In such symbiosis, such symmetry, we echo and reflect much of the same dream-energy. Perhaps we are here, now, to manifest this idea, give it form and substance, just to toss it about like a child's toy? Perhaps this is a only a Omniversal play, a cosmic game, a Divine parody? I often wonder... this I-thought which I appear to be... and I often become quite empty and indescribably quiet. And now I silence this noise this I-thought has raised and wish you all well.
Hari Om Tat Sat |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2013 : 12:58:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Govinda
Obviously, it is Brahman's dance, Brahman's dreamscape forming in the ind of the I-thought, itself witnessing the clearly defined things, appearances and structures within the time-space-continuum. But without us... who sees this universal play? Without the darkness of ignorance, how can the effulgence of wisdom have nay meaning to he witness of this miraculous phenomenon, we all share? I ma beginning to feel that god chooses to manifest this loop, this cycle of coming into the darkness and returning into the light. I;t not a theory this self my I-thought inhabit and maintains... nor a rational hypothesis... it is as it is. Lila? Yes, the Sacred play.
Isn't it marvelous that most of us know what the root problem is - identification as the separate self, and yet, very few of us actually know it? For, self-knowledge is nothing like secular knowledge where there is a knower and the known. And it is in this particular field (of spirituality) that there are infinite ways of fooling oneself to have "attained" some state, or to have "arrived" (all of it enshrouded in Mother Maya's mirth and laughter ).
To know intellectually is one thing, to abide in it experientially a whole different thing. And it has nothing to do with bliss, energy or peak experiences - all of those can and do occur (and are necessary signposts for most of us), but knowing has little to do with bliss. Bliss experiences come and go (and when they go, they are merely memories) - knowing is to live in freedom, embracing every experience as it arises, not resisting or wanting something different, where the knowing seeps through in every thought, word and deed. Absolutely no discordance.
When I realized how silly it was, I lost the temptation to keep referring to "my awakening experience last year". You see, that was just an experience, and can be neither recreated nor mean anything in the unfolding present moment. Besides, who really cares about my awakening experience from such and such time? All that matters is how I relate to Life in this instance. Period.
The most difficult (and paradoxically, the easiest) thing to do on the spiritual path is to stop manipulating experiences. And this is my current lesson, opening and challenge - to perform intense austerities and yet remain steady without manipulating everything that arises out of it.. There is a very great temptation to make it look like something - bliss, kundalini symptom, overload, "an awakened perspective", great insight, and on and on. That is the filter I was trying to describe - it does not exist merely in relation to other people, but first and foremost in relation to stuff arising within. So, instead of thinking and believing "wonder why I'm irritated - must be purification", the irritation is noticed, felt and experienced; raw, fresh and unadulterated in a curious sort of way. The only truth about it is that it is happening; all else is irrelevant. The freedom in such childlike curiosity is beyond any description - not bliss, not joy, not even peace. It is like living in 2D for all of one's life and suddenly get introduced to 3D.
You are right - it is through us that Ishwara can experience itself. Suspect it would be much more fun if it is experienced in a naked, innocent sort of way and not second-hand through our veils of "I know" ness of the limited ego. The biggest block to knowing is knowing.
Bhakti has always been the mainstay in my sadhana. But the sort of surrender that the Divine Mother demands and gets is nothing like I've known - She overpowers my being to cut through all my mind-made nonsense, including "knowledge". She also demands I give up the "my-ness" of experiences, including the "my-ness" of sadhana - She wants it all.
Much love. |
Edited by - kami on Dec 03 2013 1:03:00 PM |
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Govinda
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2013 : 2:47:44 PM
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2013 : 10:56:51 AM
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Thanks for sharing everyone!
My favorite moments, if I can call them that, are those when I 'wake up' within nonduality, when the mantra has disappeared, and yet the object of adoration is ourself, filled with a tremendous fire, a fire combusted by the dynamic play of stillness and motion, and there is no feeling of the body even though the senses still function, but complete dispassion toward all attachment as the only thing that matters is compassion, because there is only the identification with the Self, and time has been overcome, all things eternal and temporal are the same and anything is possible, and ecstatic prana leaps from the body, but the body is simply a part of the body of the universe and not a separate thing at all.
And its at these moments when the I-ness is only a servant, and perfectly happy to be a vehicle of the Self. And all things come from the Self, and it is self evident that everything is not only interconnected but all things are the same thing. And in these moments, the only desire in the universe is to share this with all beings, that they may experience true freedom.
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2013 : 3:43:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Thanks for sharing everyone!
My favorite moments, if I can call them that, are those when I 'wake up' within nonduality, when the mantra has disappeared, and yet the object of adoration is ourself, filled with a tremendous fire, a fire combusted by the dynamic play of stillness and motion, and there is no feeling of the body even though the senses still function, but complete dispassion toward all attachment as the only thing that matters is compassion, because there is only the identification with the Self, and time has been overcome, all things eternal and temporal are the same and anything is possible, and ecstatic prana leaps from the body, but the body is simply a part of the body of the universe and not a separate thing at all.
And its at these moments when the I-ness is only a servant, and perfectly happy to be a vehicle of the Self. And all things come from the Self, and it is self evident that everything is not only interconnected but all things are the same thing. And in these moments, the only desire in the universe is to share this with all beings, that they may experience true freedom.
Beautiful thanks TNTN |
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Deeper seeing through the I
