|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 15 2013 : 12:46:05 PM
|
dear friends
here in Lebanon this year there is an increase of beggars in the streets.Most of them are gangs, meaning they use women and children to beg on the streets.Of course the gangs take all the money collected plus there is always underlying prostitution and drug usage.With the war happening in Syria (neighboring country to Lebanon), those gangs found more women and children to use.As i said those kind of beggars were always common in Lebanon, nothing new, but there numbers has increased.
i dont know why recently this really annoys me.These are the thoughts that come to mind:
1.i hate the part of playing beggars, the fact that they are using women and children
2.but i dont feel compassion...on the contrary i am disgusted but their filth and dirt...dont want even to walk next to them
3.which shows how much i am borderline OCD
4.i dont want to see them, let them return to their country
then comes the rationalization part to mind:
great gurus lived in India where poverty is much more than Lebanon.Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta lived a very modest life.Swami Chidananda (Divine Life Society) served the lepers.They never complained walking among extreme poverty.
then comes the questioning part to mind:
those modern advaita teachers and their students (mostly doing non relational self enquiry) are pretty much a 'selected' group ,that have a very comfortable life .
Whereas life and yoga is here and now, in the streets. I wonder how helpful those teachers will be when seeing this poverty.Will they still be in unity? or will they be repulsed like i am ? where did the yoga go? Yoga and relational self enquiry is not in this selective protected environment.It is here in the streets, there is beauty, there is ugliness, there is cleanness, there is filth ...all of it is manifested in the streets.And it is as it is.
ps: dont know why i am posting this...dont know even if i posted it in the correct place
|
Edited by - maheswari on Oct 15 2013 12:47:49 PM |
|
|
whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2013 : 11:45:01 AM
|
I've no idea of the answer...
James Swartz's life was not sheltered. His autobiography, Mystic by Default, is a fascinating read. And there's Karl. :-) His book, Square Peg in a Round Hole, is really enjoyable. Surely there are other autobiographies, but I haven't really looked...
Random thoughts...
The sights, smells, sounds, sensations of poverty and exploitation cause emotional reaction in me too. Also, in Chicago, if you look at someone who is begging for money, and see a human being, they'll get excited and follow you down the sidewalk for a block or two. 
I'm wondering if you look at the violence, exploitation, poverty, filth, and stink and wonder how they can live like that...
I've wondered more than once...
The only thing I can come up with is that it feels normal. Or, even if it's not quite accepted as normal, there are no visible, viable alternatives.
I come to that conclusion from several experiences. One is of my own experience with depression. After the twins were born, I went through really severe post-partem depression. I'll spare the details, but the twins had a rough start. And I, with raging hormone imbalances, very little sleep, constant severe pain, and constant worry, thought that throwing myself in front of a train was a perfectly rational thing to do. The depression was so complete, that I had no idea that anything was wrong. The only thing that kept me from committing suicide was that I knew the men who would have to scoop up my guts and brains off the train tracks, and I didn't want to put them through that.
I have a relative who struggles with paranoia and multiple personality disorder. Another relative, who lives with her, struggles with tightly suppressed rage and depression. It's horrible to see what they go through, but they don't want to change their situation. They won't tell you they're happy, but their world is familiar to them and change is uncomfortable.
I have another relative who was recruited by a gang at the age of nine and who spent his entire teenage and adult life in prison. I won't even go into the gang indoctrination scenarios, but I will say that it was completely accepted by my relative at the time as something rational and even desirable.
As a former Firefighter and Emergency Medical Technician, I've seen all manner of poverty, filth, hoarding, neglect, illness, psychosis. You name it. Being in the business of rescuing people, I can honestly say that I have never rescued anyone. When there was a rescue, they did it themselves. Their own will manifested the rescue and carried it through, and I just happened to be at that particular place and time with the right equipment.
Every time I've tried to rescue someone who didn't want it, the rescue failed. 100% of the time.
So I think the way it works is like this...
There's a niggling feeling that won't go away, that something is not quite right, that something more is out there than what is currently experienced. If that feeling is listened to and followed up on, opportunities appear.
Samyama is powerful. Providing opportunities (karma yoga) can be powerful too.
Love
|
 |
|
|
maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2013 : 12:45:08 PM
|
dear Liz
thank you for your reply!
i have read the chapter from Swartz book...i was delighted that Swami Chidananda is mentioned (btw He is my ishta...i have been twice to Sivananda ashram in Rishikesh but after Swami Chidananda left his body)
but again this is another story we do like our stories dont we?
quote:
I'm wondering if you look at the violence, exploitation, poverty, filth, and stink and wonder how they can live like that...
exactly...you perfectly express what i feel
yes it feels normal for them...perfectly ok and logical
i had a depressive episode when i was 19 and i did went to a psychiatrist
i also have relatives with schizophrenia and OCD (personally i am obsessed with cleanness but OCD is not only about that....it is so much more)
my mother has vascular dementia...and she had psychotic episodes (hallucinations and aggressiveness) and epilepsy episodes due to the dying of brain cells...now this is not happening anymore...YET the medicines can not be stopped or else she relapses
and in her hospital , there is a floor for treating mental diseases....i sometimes talk to the patients
the hospital is very good but it is located in a very poor neighborhood...so going there is not so nice...as if it my karma to see this poverty very regularly for many years
Samayama is my main practice at the moment...and lots of karma yoga is being done too
as you said ..me too i have no idea what to say or why i am saying it
maybe it is just stuff that i need to express more openly..dont know
much Love |
|
|
|
Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2013 : 2:02:22 PM
|
Hi
I too have aversions to all sorts of things, even though I recognize them as such and see if I can be with them in the body to help them dissolve, but it seems to go on and on.
Reading the life of Amma helped me by seeing her radical ways of working with aversion by being in the gutter with these people, of entering fully into being the aversion she was working with. Very inspiring and very challenging although I personally am taking a much tamer and more gradual approach.
With regard to the non-dualists, I think there are many stages to non-dual realisation. Adyashanti describes this well and talks about those who have a glimpse of it now and again but without embodying it fully - which probably is most non-dualists (but that's just a guess).
I'm sure you know that appreciation of the non-dual or oneness is directly linked to compassion, as another's suffering is also everyone's suffering, easy to say. But as Adyashanti explains, even with an appreciation of oneness there is usually so much work still to do and this obviously will be with aversions and addictions or the push and pull of desiring the nice things and pushing away the stuff we don;t like.
So the challenge for me is always embodiment, whatever it is, the pleasant or the unpleasant. Embodiment is my word at the moment
My 2 cents
|
|
|
|
maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2013 : 2:40:14 PM
|
thank you Sparkle
|
|
|
|
kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2013 : 2:58:00 PM
|
Hi Maha,
Your honesty is so refreshing. I admire your fortitude in all that you have to deal with on a daily basis - a true yogini. Thank you.
And you are absolutely right - "in the trenches" is where we find out if we are yogis. But that is not necessarily limited to modern advaita teachers. I am also not qualified to state that what they teach is non-relational inquiry. All I can relate to is what happens in my own experience - I am a neat freak by nature and clutter used to drive me crazy. It still does to some extent. However, I have found that something has loosened up within me, and I no longer have a hissy fit walking in to a cluttered space. But I still notice a recoil arising within during certain circumstances and with certain people - and this reaction arising in me is what tends to hold my fascination, more so than the inciting cause.. The layers of conditioning are simply amazing.. The last time I was in India, it bothered me more to see how beggars and the homeless were treated (with cruelty and contempt) by the affluent. And it was also amazing to see the total nonchalance to such treatment on the part of those beggars..
While growing up, I was very sensitive to the whole "house servant" concept that exists even now in India. I would voice my opinions unabashedly to my mother and other extended family that had these servants (and pretty much everyone did). Shortly after I graduated from college, I insisted that we unofficially adopt the teenage girl who worked as a servant at our house. My parents conceded - we had her move in with us, enrolled her in high school, bought her clothes, gave her a generous allowance, etc. I was super excited to have a sister and insisted that she be treated as my equal. She stayed with us for a year, then dropped out of school and went back to her village to resume working as a servant girl. When asked, she said this was not for her (my mother would say "I told you so" for many years to come). It was a heartbreaking lesson - nobody can "save" anyone else (especially those that don't want to be saved!). We all have to work out our vasanas/karmas exactly the way we decided we would when we took this incarnation. Nothing more, nothing less.
Even while engaged in "karma yoga", it helps to see what it is that drives me - is it pity, loathing, wanting to end that situation so "I" can feel better about it..? Is it to "help" (which has the subtle connotation of being superior)? Or is it true compassion where the happiness and well-being of the other is well above my own selfish motives? Do I have a sense of ownership of it all? All of this inquiry is totally valid for me - been there, done that. Most importantly, can I discriminate to see what really drives me? My mind is so smart that it can fool me into believing one thing for the other, ya know?
So ultimately, it isn't about non-duality teachers or anyone else. It is all about me - my projections, my reactions, my response to the situation and finally, about my skill in letting it all go.
Much love to you my dear sister. |
|
|
|
maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2013 : 4:06:08 PM
|
quote:
it bothered me more to see how beggars and the homeless were treated (with cruelty and contempt) by the affluent
my disgust is not because they are poor and i am better off....it is how do they tolerate living like that...in lie (in the case of manipulative gangs) and in filth ....it is like a job ...the job to be poor ...the job to use people and they accept and find it all quite normal! so i am not claiming that i want to save them..i am just astonished...yet as you said, it is a vicious circle, most of them will stick to it cause it is the only thing they know
as for karma yoga...dont feel any sense of ownership while doing it...it happens...spontaneously i find myself doing it wholeheartedly.....without thinking....
also it is not the urge of "helping" nor "making the lives of others better"...nor "bringing heaven to earth" nor "relieving misery" ...it is not the case...it is just doing
Love |
|
|
|
kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2013 : 5:13:50 PM
|
It's awesome you can tell the difference. I'm not always totally sure about my motives when it comes to karma yoga.. Just more grist for the mill here.
Love to you. |
|
|
|
Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2013 : 06:00:14 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by kami
It's awesome you can tell the difference. I'm not always totally sure about my motives when it comes to karma yoga.. Just more grist for the mill here.
Love to you.
I'm not always sure about my motives either although I do look for them. For instance the work I do with groups very much satisfies my "need to be seen" - as described by Gereory Kramer in his book Insight Dialogue. On the other hand it is not all about that, so I often wonder how much is driven by the desire to be seen or to "not be alone" or to "have a sense of usefulness" or whatever, and how much comes out of compassion and love.
Recently I have been seeing it like two sides of a coin. One side being the explicit side of me as described above and the other side the more implicit aspects like compassion and love.
In the past I have patted myself on the back often(which itself tells a story) for thinking I was doing things purely out of compassion but over time began to see other strands. Seeing these other strands (like the desire to be seen) has been very helpful, it is much more grounding and real when being with people. It helps embodiment.
Having said that I do like what you said maheswari
"as for karma yoga...dont feel any sense of ownership while doing it...it happens...spontaneously i find myself doing it wholeheartedly.....without thinking....
also it is not the urge of "helping" nor "making the lives of others better"...nor "bringing heaven to earth" nor "relieving misery" ...it is not the case...it is just doing"
I personally find this can happen for me sometimes but overall there are the two sides co-existing most of the time. |
|
|
|
kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2013 : 09:41:04 AM
|
Hi Sparkle,
Interesting that you work with Insight Dialogue - it really is one of my favorite books, one that I return to again and again. And it was in re-reading that book earlier this year that I came to see that my motives are not always clear to me. Sometimes they are, and when it "just happens", the clarity of the motive is in hindsight and not while being engaged in it. I know (in hindsight) that "helping" or such has happened through me when I realize that the work/task was done with absolute joy in just doing it, not "for" something that could come as a result of it. I question my motives constantly, even while engaged in mundane stuff like caring for my family - and when I am brutally honest with myself, I can often see that the motive is not really all "karma yoga" every single time. There is an underlying hunger (as Kramer says in ID) that is often so, so subtle that the mind can easily rationalize and fool itself into thinking there is no "ownership"..
Thank you for sharing. |
|
|
|
bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2013 : 05:40:37 AM
|
Dear friends
This has been a beautiful conversation and I want to thank each of you who shared. You each have profound compassion and insight.
The aversions to street beggars are shared. They are in the air. I feel them. I want to break through to something more real than role playing, and this desire has been with me since my youth when I had a spiritual awakening that broke open my heart to the love and light of God as revealed in Jesus who became homeless and identified with the poor.
I am reminded of a pilgrimage I made to Matehuala, Mexico in honor of St. Francis of Assisi. Several times during the month when I was there I brought food to people playing the role of street beggars and asked if I could sit with them there on the street and share the food with them. One night after a beautiful worship service with Franciscan friends, I went out on the street alone.
It was a cool night after a hot day, and the street lights gave the a golden glow where they shined. That night I sat in a half lit sidewalk beside a man whose legs were severely deformed. He allowed me to share food with him, and share his view of people passing by. Strange as it may sound, I felt so very awake that night, and lucky, it seemed like a great honor to be allowed to sit with that man and silently share a bit of food.
That was out of the ordinary. Daily life here in Baltimore, USA is not so dramatic.
I will tell you that I do not routinely give cash to strangers who ask. Since it seems to me that people who beg have an ESP about cash, I normally carry only plastic money, a debit card. I circulate in an area with lots of poor people, and I rarely get asked for money.
I know where there is free food offered daily, and shelter, and counseling. I like being associated with those places. Next month, I'm starting a yoga/meditation class at a transitional housing complex for the homeless.
Please pray that the class will be excellent. In this particular shelter, residents have their own rooms. There will be one class for men and another for women. I am thinking that for my first class, I want to offer the yoga practices in the context of encouraging them to fully experience the benefit of having their own private space: a space to turn loneliness into solitude, and addiction into freedom.
|
Edited by - bewell on Oct 19 2013 05:53:36 AM |
|
|
|
maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2013 : 3:01:45 PM
|
 |
|
|
|
Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2013 : 12:43:23 AM
|
My dearest Maha, I hear ya!
This is only tangentially related to the specific topic you brought up, but - I've had some really good experiences interacting with the poor or homeless people. It does boggle the mind, "how can they live like that?!" but often they have no other choice and I feel compassion and it humbles me to have a roof over my head when they don't, etc.
The thing that I personally have a big problem with that throws me off-center is when I hear about the incredible cruelty, man's inhumanity to man (and woman and child!), the horrible things that are done to people. I think, "how can they do that?! what turns a person into a monster who would do such things?!" Maybe they themselves were abused and they are trapped in a vicious cycle. But whatever the explanation, it does interfere with my otherwise continual ecstasy of the Presence of God - "How can You allow this evil, this suffering of innocent people?!" because the universe is all God's lila, and God is Love right? and I have a really hard time reconciling, how I can be in ecstatic Oneness with This?! So, I pray for them and do samyama. But, I don't know the answers to the questions. Surely their suffering is our suffering, too... |
|
|
|
maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2013 : 03:07:20 AM
|
quote:
"How can You allow this evil, this suffering of innocent people?!"
it seems to me that God has nothing to do with it...it is all man made, and the negative karma (karma is always man made and is due to wrong Self identification) creates more negative karma, a vicious circle that affects the exact people it should affect..
once spontaneously wrong Self identification is dropped (through choiceless undentified impersonal inner silence) then such cruelty will never ever happen...and cruelty ranges from getting angry and screaming to wars |
Edited by - maheswari on Oct 29 2013 03:08:47 AM |
|
|
|
Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2013 : 5:14:22 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
quote:
"How can You allow this evil, this suffering of innocent people?!"
it seems to me that God has nothing to do with it...it is all man made, and the negative karma (karma is always man made and is due to wrong Self identification) creates more negative karma, a vicious circle that affects the exact people it should affect..
once spontaneously wrong Self identification is dropped (through choiceless undentified impersonal inner silence) then such cruelty will never ever happen...and cruelty ranges from getting angry and screaming to wars
well, yeah - my first reaction is, it's man-made, "free will" and all that, but getting back to advaita - the Unity is all there is, right? I mean, the Self is manifesting as these little unaware selves, those who are inflicting the cruelty as well as those who are suffering from it. So one way or another we are still supposedly in unity with what is going on. and that is what throws me. |
|
|
|
Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2013 : 09:56:13 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by kami
Hi Sparkle,
Interesting that you work with Insight Dialogue - it really is one of my favorite books, one that I return to again and again. And it was in re-reading that book earlier this year that I came to see that my motives are not always clear to me. Sometimes they are, and when it "just happens", the clarity of the motive is in hindsight and not while being engaged in it. I know (in hindsight) that "helping" or such has happened through me when I realize that the work/task was done with absolute joy in just doing it, not "for" something that could come as a result of it. I question my motives constantly, even while engaged in mundane stuff like caring for my family - and when I am brutally honest with myself, I can often see that the motive is not really all "karma yoga" every single time. There is an underlying hunger (as Kramer says in ID) that is often so, so subtle that the mind can easily rationalize and fool itself into thinking there is no "ownership"..
Thank you for sharing.
Hi Kami
Sorry for being so late replying to this. Yes I have been on a few retreats with Gregory Kramer, which where amazing. The whole area of relational meditation is so enriching in taking us into such intimacy with another in a safe and non-intrusive way, and then letting it go when it finishes.
I did find that I was getting hooked on these wonderfully intimate experiences though, and found myself looking for potential people on a retreat who could give me this intimacy. It then became apparent that there was a great hunger for this kind of experience with another. I then began to see the same hungry searching in other people for this experience with another.
Then on one of the retreats I had a shift. This was the seeing through and letting go of chasing that intimacy and was replaced with a much more ordinary "being with the other" in whatever way it happened. Sometimes the person might be all over the place and there was no hope of this intimacy, but that didn't matter any more. It was a much quieter experience of just being with whatever presented itself. (Just thought I'd let you know that in case you were interested )
In terms of compassion and the spiritual life however I think I did have the shift from a higher otherworldly approach to the more ordinary hands on, nothing special approach, and this felt very grounded and real.
That being said, I had to laugh yesterday because I was coming away from a conference about compassion, which had many meditations incorporated in it, and was approached by someone in the street looking for money. I respectfully declined. And then spent quite a while afterwards critising myself and also laughing at myself for investing time and money in this conference only to come out and be so uncompassionate to another.
This is old conditioning for me which keeps cropping up when I am surprised by someone like that. Lots of judgements about the person, seeing someone begging and immediately forming a stereo typical view of how they are and rejecting them on this basis.
Sometimes I go into Dublin City with twenty euro or so in my pocket purely to walk around and give to whoever asks for it. This has been a very enriching practice for me and one I started after listening to a chap called Gil Fronsdale, who gives great Dharma talks on generosity.
Basically he explains that we can have all these judgements and thoughts about people like beggers on the street, but being aware of our judgements and aware of the feelings and emotions in the body, and just giving anyway. Then seeing the effect of this simple giving in the body mind. It is a wonderful practice and now that I am writing about it I am being spurned on to go out and be more proactive in it.
|
|
|
|
kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2013 : 12:48:20 PM
|
Thank you for that stunningly beautiful post Sparkle.
Wow, I've had a similar experience with Insight Dialogue. For a while, I was also "hooked" on the new-found intimacy that was gained with the practice until seeing that my hunger for one thing had merely been replaced by this hunger! Hence, it is also my practice now to allow being with the other without subtly manipulating the interaction. And it is an ongoing learning process. Thank you for putting in words what I've been experiencing for a while.
And ah, that thing about compassion.. What is compassion really?
Earlier this week, I saw a patient whom I've known for many years. She is very young but has had two open heart surgeries, has multiple chronic issues, continues to smoke, and simply cannot get it together. She came in after yet another hospitalization for lung infection, (caused by smoking) each bout leading to her heart getting out of whack. I feel suffocated walking in to her room due to the smell of cigarettes. Even the stack of papers that she brought with her reeked of cigarettes. She began to cry the minute I walked in, saying she was scared, did not want to die, wanted to change etc (a conversation we've had countless times). I finally told her I would not be able to help her anymore if she did not help herself (since she cannot have any more heart surgeries). At the same time that I was talking with her, I was witnessing my reaction to the smell, to her pattern, to the helplessness I was experiencing, all of it. Simultaneously, there was an opening toward her, a kinship - I knew without a doubt that in reality, I am no different. If I had lived through her experiences with her matrix of vasanas, I would be exactly the same. It is not that I know better, it is just that we are living our lessons in the only way we know to live them. In that opening, I was her. As I opened more to her, the smell and the judgments passed and I softened considerably, ending the visit in a space of understanding.
This type of exchange and work is what I do on a daily basis, an "in-your-face" opportunity for constant re-evaluation of things like "selfless service" and karma yoga, compassion, Oneness, etc as they pertain to how I really live them. It is humbling to see that often when I think I'm "beyond" something, I really am not and there is so much more to see within.
Thank you for your wisdom. |
|
|
|
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2013 : 1:14:57 PM
|
Good stuff!  |
|
|
|
maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2013 : 02:47:14 AM
|
very good and honest post Sparkle
quote:
Sometimes I go into Dublin City with twenty euro or so in my pocket purely to walk around and give to whoever asks for it. This has been a very enriching practice for me and one I started after listening to a chap called Gil Fronsdale, who gives great Dharma talks on generosity.
Basically he explains that we can have all these judgements and thoughts about people like beggers on the street, but being aware of our judgements and aware of the feelings and emotions in the body, and just giving anyway. Then seeing the effect of this simple giving in the body mind.
over here i m aware of my judgments but i dont give money to beggers on the streets cause not only i have judgments but also i am fraid to get near people with no hygiene what to say? i am totally aware that i am a neat freak ....the process of giving money away is different over here...every now and then i give money to charity organizations...why? for many reasons: when i feel so grateful about my good job and good living conditons, i give away money....or when i get positive results concerning a serious situtation ( for example lately i was concerned about mum health, it turned all is good) then i give money....i dont plan when to give money..nor do i negotiate with Him as follows: look God please make things good then i will give money...it is not like that..it is not a deal...i just spontaneously give and i completely forget about it
thank you for your posts everybody
ps: concerning being a neat freak: till now i cant believe how i went to india twice...also i have to admit that i feel disgust, anger and extreme uneas when my mum (vascular dementia patient) stains her clothes with urine....i just cant handle it....no wonder i am not into having kids |
Edited by - maheswari on Nov 01 2013 02:56:28 AM |
|
|
|
Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2013 : 6:47:31 PM
|
Kami, that is a beautiful post thank you.
They say that opening to and being with our aversions and fears is a great act of self-compassion and this in turn can manifest in compassion for others. Your experience seems to be a beautiful example of this.
It sounds like wonderful work you do, the world is a richer place for this kind of understanding, thank you for being here
Sometimes too it is the simple things in life that are the most difficult to turn towards and be with though, the ordinary everyday relationships. For me this is my biggest challenge, the ordinary stuff.
I can relate to you maheswari with neatness, except it could be the opposite for me  . I don't live like one of the beggers you describe but I do struggle with keeping my office and other rooms in anything other than a mess. This seems like a simple thing and yet I have struggled with it most of my life, it seems to be a very deep conditioning for some reason and I think I am only recently beginning to see some sort of way through it,, but it remains to be seen if this will be permanent. Its not that I'm not organised, I 'm actually quite well organised but there always seems to be this mess - help!!
Maybe we can do a trade, I'll trade you some of my mess for some of your neatness
A bow to you both |
|
|
|
Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2013 : 7:58:17 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
very good and honest post Sparkle
quote:
Sometimes I go into Dublin City with twenty euro or so in my pocket purely to walk around and give to whoever asks for it. This has been a very enriching practice for me and one I started after listening to a chap called Gil Fronsdale, who gives great Dharma talks on generosity.
Basically he explains that we can have all these judgements and thoughts about people like beggers on the street, but being aware of our judgements and aware of the feelings and emotions in the body, and just giving anyway. Then seeing the effect of this simple giving in the body mind.
over here i m aware of my judgments but i dont give money to beggers on the streets cause not only i have judgments but also i am fraid to get near people with no hygiene what to say? i am totally aware that i am a neat freak ....the process of giving money away is different over here...every now and then i give money to charity organizations...why? for many reasons: when i feel so grateful about my good job and good living conditons, i give away money....or when i get positive results concerning a serious situtation ( for example lately i was concerned about mum health, it turned all is good) then i give money....i dont plan when to give money..nor do i negotiate with Him as follows: look God please make things good then i will give money...it is not like that..it is not a deal...i just spontaneously give and i completely forget about it
thank you for your posts everybody
ps: concerning being a neat freak: till now i cant believe how i went to india twice...also i have to admit that i feel disgust, anger and extreme uneas when my mum (vascular dementia patient) stains her clothes with urine....i just cant handle it....no wonder i am not into having kids
I am by no means a neat freak - I mean, I would PREFER a clean house if I had the time/energy, which I don't - but I can relate to concerns about hygiene (and the homeless/beggars). When I said earlier that I had "good experiences" with beggars, one reason is because I encountered them in relatively affluent areas, like Hawaii and California. When I was a teenager living in Hawaii the first homeless people I met were a group of Jesus-freaks living in the park by the ocean. You would have liked them because they were genuinely spiritual and VERY CLEAN - they bathed in the ocean and/or the public showers at least once a day. They were extremely nice people, played guitar and sang well, and their preaching and begging was very low-key and not "in your face." Sometimes, for example, they would wait outside of McDonald's and when people were going to throw away their leftovers, they would ask for the leftovers and then say, "God bless you for your kindness! Jesus said as you have done this for me, you have done it for Him." I used to hang out with them a lot although at the time I was NOT into religion, but they weren't pushy. Then in Berkeley I knew some street people who lived in tents in the hills above the campus. They had access to some public facilities (maybe at the University?) and therefore were able to maintain a reasonable degree of hygiene and they were very interesting and often well-educated people. So I'm sure it depends on your location and culture to an extent... |
Edited by - Radharani on Nov 01 2013 8:47:22 PM |
|
|
|
maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2013 : 03:14:50 AM
|
Dear Sparkle...it is something i was raised on...dad being extremely organized person and mum always scared about our hygiene me and my brother...it is not quite normal all familes are dysfunctional somehow it is borderline OCD...but OCD is not only about hygiene it is more than that, lots of illusory stories are created by the mind, lots of rituals....
in my childhood i used to have phases where i obsessed about cleanness...it definitely hides underlying anxieties and insecurities...the years of yoga practice made it very easy for me to let go of uncessary baggage and cleanness obsessions...the thoughts don’t stick anymore...they just appear and disappear...so i guess the personality does not change, i will always prefer cleanness , these thoughts will always appeear,but the difference is that i dont obsess /worry about it anymore...i easily move on
if i ever have kids , i think this will be the best lesson for me
sure thing i would love to trade some my neatness with your mess
quote:
You would have liked them because they were genuinely spiritual and VERY CLEAN - they bathed in the ocean and/or the public showers at least once a day. They were extremely nice people, played guitar and sang well, and their preaching and begging was very low-key and not "in your face." Sometimes, for example, they would wait outside of McDonald's and when people were going to throw away their leftovers, they would ask for the leftovers and then say, "God bless you for your kindness! Jesus said as you have done this for me, you have done it for Him."
cool people indeed i love this Jesus quote |
|
|
|
bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2013 : 10:36:56 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Radharani
When I was a teenager living in Hawaii the first homeless people I met were a group of Jesus-freaks living in the park by the ocean. You would have liked them because they were genuinely spiritual and VERY CLEAN - they bathed in the ocean and/or the public showers at least once a day.
Hi Radharani,
Thanks for the stories of clean beggars. That's the sort of beggar I'd like to become. That is to say, I fantasize about such scenarios a lot. I'm impressed by the range of your experiences.
Be
|
|
|
|
Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2013 : 5:25:03 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by bewell
quote:
Originally posted by Radharani
When I was a teenager living in Hawaii the first homeless people I met were a group of Jesus-freaks living in the park by the ocean. You would have liked them because they were genuinely spiritual and VERY CLEAN - they bathed in the ocean and/or the public showers at least once a day.
Hi Radharani,
Thanks for the stories of clean beggars. That's the sort of beggar I'd like to become. That is to say, I fantasize about such scenarios a lot. I'm impressed by the range of your experiences.
Be
Dear Bewell,
Oh yes, definitely! If you're going to be homeless that is the way to do it. They had a pretty nice life. |
|
|
|
lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2013 : 1:34:27 PM
|
| I saw a clean, peaceful beggar today, and I remembered this thread. Was it you bewell? |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
compassion and modern advaita teachers
