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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 21 2013 : 6:19:23 PM
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Indescribably better than anything.
I know others here have experienced dissolution into unity (is that the correct way to put it?)
I've had a first taste of it. Just.so.different.from.anything.else.
I thought I had an idea about it, but oh my god it is so far beyond any other experience. There is really no other thing, no I, no you, just all. And blissful and peaceful beyond imagination. Infinite. Infinite in every way.
My question to those that have experienced unity regularly is that when I 'came back', because I really had no body, or mind anymore, just everything was gone, so when I came back, it was so painful to realize how much suffering exists in this life. The suffering of not being 100% connected to that all the time.
I don't get that in regular samadhi. This wasn't samadhi. This was way beyond samadhi because there literally was no I. Regular samadhi, there is a relatively seamless transition to moving around mode here. No pain when meditation ends.
It was downright the most poignant, tragic thing, heartbreaking thing to realize that this life exists at all. But oh, the compassion. The compassion arises from the heartbreak and it is powerful beyond measure. Such compassion. Un-freaking-believable compassion.
Can someone please help me to understand this experience? Really hope to hear from you guys.
Sorry if its a little incoherent, I haven't digested this yet.
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2013 : 09:12:59 AM
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Sorry I can't contribute...
But thanks for sharing what happened. Your post is very inspiring! |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2013 : 4:11:44 PM
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Hi Tonighsthenight,
What you are describing is an experience called nirvikalpa samadhi. It means samadhi without fluctuations. It is an experience which happens in time, so when it is over it is just a memory. Then there can be the desire of wanting that experience again, and not wanting what you are actually experiencing right now in this life. So pain can be created in this way.
All spiritual experiences are like this, they are a double edged sword. We get a taste of something beyond ourselves, but they can also be the cause of suffering if there is attachment to them or aversion arises.
Unity is a state beyond all experiencing, beyond anything which has a beginning and an end. It is the state of being which exists when everything is seen as it is, as the Self.
The Buddha was once asked if it was necessary to experience nirvikalpa samadhi in order to realize enlightenment. He replied that it is necessary to experience every possible state of samadhi in order to realize that that is not it either. So unity is not a state of samadhi. It is simply what is when the clouds part, the clouds being the clouds of ignorance and identification. It is a state of bliss and of love, not a state of suffering.
Christi |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2013 : 4:52:39 PM
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Hi TTN,
I agree with everything that Christi has said with one change (and feel free to dispute my correction if you disagree Christi)...
Christi said: "So unity is not a state of samadhi. It is simply what is when the clouds part, the clouds being the clouds of ignorance and identification. It is a state of bliss and of love, not a state of suffering."
I would have left the last sentence out personally. Unity is what is left when identification is gone. I would not define unity as a state of bliss and love and no suffering. I would say that "unity" is not a "state" at all, nor can it be defined. A subtle difference, but an important one I believe.
Love,
Carson  |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2013 : 5:32:59 PM
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Think of anyone or anything which makes you feel any fledgling sense of anger, or disagreement, or even hatred, and upon feeling that, if you can honestly recognize that person or thing as being part of you (the big SELF, that is), therein lies unity. For me, it is a great litmus test, because it is quite easy to enjoy a blissed-out state when external conditions are favorable. But when a curve ball is thrown at me, does the unshakable witness remain? Sometimes it has. But I don't think I could ever proclaim unity as a state I have arrived at. It's more like I'm just becoming aware of the unity that has already been in existence this whole time. The unity is here whether I'm aware of it or not, but I'd prefer to be as keenly aware of it as I can. (I think this is in line with Carson's 3rd paragraph).
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2013 : 7:10:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi TTN,
I agree with everything that Christi has said with one change (and feel free to dispute my correction if you disagree Christi)...
Christi said: "So unity is not a state of samadhi. It is simply what is when the clouds part, the clouds being the clouds of ignorance and identification. It is a state of bliss and of love, not a state of suffering."
I would have left the last sentence out personally. Unity is what is left when identification is gone. I would not define unity as a state of bliss and love and no suffering. I would say that "unity" is not a "state" at all, nor can it be defined. A subtle difference, but an important one I believe.
Love,
Carson
Hi Carson,
I use the term "state" in the sense of "abiding" rather than in the sense of a "transient state".
Certainly unity can be known by it's attributes, one of which is bliss and another love. Bliss does not disappear with the rise of unity but rather becomes stronger and somehow more refined and more radiant.
This is from lesson 336 on unity:
"Unity is the outpouring of divine love in every day activity. It is not the appearance of it (behaving in a particular way), but the internal fact of it, which cannot be mimicked for long. No matter what anyone has ever said about enlightenment, what it is or what it is not, we can only know it in experience as an expression of our own inner silence, which to us will not seem like an expression at all. It is an abiding, because we are forever at one with absolute stillness. And in this abiding, we are far more dynamic than we ever were before we came to rest in our own Self."
and this from lesson 113:
"We have described the third stage of enlightenment as "unity," where we see all as an expression of the One that we have become. That One is pure bliss consciousness coexisting within all the (ecstatic) processes of nature. When it gets to this stage, we become a channel for an unending flow of divine love. We act for the good of all, expecting nothing in return, because we perceive all as an expression of our own self."
Christi |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2013 : 8:27:33 PM
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Hi Christi,
When everything has been stripped away (identification, language, beliefs, conditioning etc) all that is left is something that is (in my experience) absolutely beyond all possible definition. Trying to put words to it, to me, seems like a bastardization of the most sacred. When everything is gone, there is no bliss, there is no love, all there is, is ________ .
The Tao that can be spoken of is not the Tao.
Love,
Carson |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2013 : 8:38:43 PM
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One time I was taking a creative writing course at school, and I handed in a poem in which I had written the words "indescribable beauty", and the teacher handed me back the poem, saying: "That's the job of a poet--to describe the indescribable." That hit me like a freight train, and I've been writing with that objective in mind ever since.  |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jul 23 2013 : 10:03:11 AM
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"The Great Perfection practitioner lives in pure empty space, and appreciates it. He or she lets go of everything, even the sense of self, and it all dissolves into the limitless base, the kunzhi, from which all phenomena arise as pure light and pure experience. Everything is empty and emptiness is enough. It’s very spacious and luminous."
Tenzin Wangyal |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jul 23 2013 : 10:05:30 AM
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| Lovely quote Jeff. Like that one. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jul 23 2013 : 4:13:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi Christi,
When everything has been stripped away (identification, language, beliefs, conditioning etc) all that is left is something that is (in my experience) absolutely beyond all possible definition. Trying to put words to it, to me, seems like a bastardization of the most sacred. When everything is gone, there is no bliss, there is no love, all there is, is ________ .
The Tao that can be spoken of is not the Tao.
Love,
Carson
Hi Carson,
What you are describing here is called the Dharma in Sanskrit. In Pali it is Dhamma and in Chinese the Tao. It means the Truth or the Way and is free of attributes. It is also sometimes referred to as "That" or "Tat" in Sanskrit, and Yogani uses that term in the main lessons also.
What Yogani describes as "Unity" in the main lessons is different from that. Unity is an abiding with attributes (such as bliss and divine love). It is the resultant stage from the merging of ecstasy and bliss and is itself a stage on the path.
So we are talking about three different things in this thread:
1. Nirvikalpa samadhi: A state of meditative absorption which takes us beyond the mind and is characterised by ecstasy.
2. The Dharma/ Tao: Absolute Truth, with no attributes.
3. Unity: an abiding characterised by attributes such as bliss and outpouring divine love. Everything possesses a self radiant shining quality.
Yogani refers to the shining quality of unity in lesson 366:
"This condition of peaceful radiance has sometimes been referred to as having a shining quality.
Paradoxically, it is this shining radiance, the movement of inner silence outward from within us, that brings us surely into a direct realization of the non-dual nature of existence. "
So it is the qualities present in the state of unity which take us beyond into direct realization of "That" (The Tao). And of That, nothing can be said.
Christi
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jul 23 2013 : 10:55:53 PM
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Wow, thank you Christi. That is straight up explanatory.
Thanks to everyone for the great thoughts.
Christi (and Carson?), I think I understand this concept of unity then, especially with that quote from Yogani. Not that it couldnt have other definitions, but at least how it is used at ayp.
So unity is that quality of radiant connection one feels in everyday life. Its very subtle and is associated with lower levels of bliss and silence. Its like a shading on every encounter in the external world. Very very subtle, but a quality of experience nonetheless. Is that right? |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jul 23 2013 : 11:28:08 PM
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Christi, rereading the thread, how should I treat this? I would imagine just let it go, but should I expect to experience this more often?
Does this state eventually fuse with a waking state? I can't imagine being functional in this state for a number of reasons, including the horror of coming back.
Does Yogani mention this in lessons?
Thank you! |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2013 : 3:02:46 PM
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Hi TNTN,
quote:
So unity is that quality of radiant connection one feels in everyday life. Its very subtle and is associated with lower levels of bliss and silence. Its like a shading on every encounter in the external world. Very very subtle, but a quality of experience nonetheless. Is that right?
Yes. Unity is an abiding inner silence, a state of ecstatic bliss and a merging of the observer and the observed in oneness.
This is from lesson 439:
" It is something that is self-evident when it appears, and entirely independent of our outer circumstances. It is an abiding inner silence, a blissful ecstasy, and an endless outpouring of divine love. Most importantly, it is freedom from suffering. It is also a direct experience of Oneness (unity) through all the faculties of perception. It is living within and through the essence of what we are – pure bliss consciousness. Human beings are designed to express that reality in the realm of time and space, in ordinary daily living. We are That."
quote:
Does this state eventually fuse with a waking state? I can't imagine being functional in this state for a number of reasons, including the horror of coming back.
I don't believe Yogani mentions the horror of coming back in the main lessons. It is not something that I have experienced personally either. Certainly there can be a sense of rising towards the infinite in ecstasy in meditation and then coming back and having to deal with more mundane things like getting the kids ready for school. But I wouldn't call it a sense of horror. 
If equanimity, joy and peacefullness are developed through meditation then life becomes much more balanced even through the highs and lows of ecstasy.
But Yogani certainly does talk a lot in the lessons about the way in which higher states of consciousness gradually overspill and fuse with our everyday waking state bringing about an abiding condition of liberation.
From lesson 199:
"We may be gone and not know where we were. Or we may have some celestial visions. When we do come back, we are somehow new, illuminated, radiating like never before."
From lesson 92:
"Enlightenment is not about running off to heaven and leaving an unpurified nervous system behind that we will have to come back to and finish later in another life. It is about doing the work of completely purifying the nervous system. Then we have it all, become it all, heaven, earth, the cosmos, LA, everything. Then we become an expression of heaven on earth, and can do much for others who are expressions of heaven also, just needing a good housecleaning to realize it."
One of the most powerful aspects of ecstatic states of meditative absorption (samadhi) is the powerful effect they have on the purification of the nervous system. It is similar to flooding the nervous system with prana. So every time we are taken up in samadhi, we are changed, and we move one step closer to a life lived in radiant bliss, love, grace and freedom.
Christi |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2013 : 4:01:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
...because I really had no body, or mind anymore, just everything was gone, so when I came back, it was so painful to realize how much suffering exists in this life. The suffering of not being 100% connected to that all the time.
Hi tonightsthenight,
Thanks for sharing. I've had an experience that resembles yours in terms of the extremes of being gone, and being in a mode of heartbreaking compassion, and some other phases in-between. The experience was a revelation, an awakening.
I appreciate the discussion so far in terms of giving names for the phases of the experience and linking those to Yogani's lessons. To add to that, I look at interpretation as an ongoing process, where each of us is responsible for our own growth in understanding. Here are some questions you might consider: What led up to the experience? What conditions? What practices? Are they repeatable?
Our practices make a difference in our ability integrate peak experiences into every day life. There are parts of the your peak experience that are one time only. The second time cannot be the same. On the other hand, in some sense, all that you experience is yourself -- dimensions of the amazing mystery that is you have come to awareness in a new way. Those dimensions are not just stuck in past time: they are part of who you are in the here and now. AYP facilitates that exploration of the here and now of who you are in the process/practice of self-inquiry. Over time, and practice the divide between the extremes of ecstasy and agony on one hand, and ordinary life on the other are smoothed out and connected, at least somewhat.
As for me, I'm still learning exploring. Not all smoothed out and connected in everyday life yet. May never be. So be it.
I hope this us useful. Thanks again for sharing.
Be |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2013 : 4:06:18 PM
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| Superb post, bewell. Thank you. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2013 : 10:58:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Superb post, bewell. Thank you.
Thanks Christi and be well.
Christi,
Just to be clear, I don't have any issues coming out of normal samadhi. In fact, normal samadhi has merged into the waking state consciousness here over the past couple years. Using that description of unity, I guess that started here a while ago, but only matured into a normal state since about a year.
The 'horror' I spoke about was the most intense feeling I'd had in my life up to that point, closely followed by an even more intense feeling of compassion. More intense than the nirvakalpa experience because I've experienced tastes of that many times before, though never at that level.
Maybe that 'horror' was the full realization of the still-present obstructions that still remain?
All I can say is that coming back to a body, I did not resist, I accepted, but the magnitude of pain in this world was fully evident, it was like I could feel all the pain of this world in one moment. It was absolutely crushing.
It sounds like it just means I have more practice ahead 
Be well,
Thanks for your response. Yeah, obviously not completely smoothed out over here! 
Leading up, I'd overloaded on silence a couple days before without overloading on ecstacy. Rare for me, usually its the other way around.
So no physical, sakti style overload symtoms, not emotional at all.
The two days before, there was still silence (and bliss) and unity, but at the same time, it was like there was this dark cloud of foulness that my mind was sitting in. It was strange, but I was cool as a cucumber, but just really really negative and overwhelmed by negativity.
I won't try to replicate the experience. I think its a signpost that once I get through the current obstructions I will be able to integrate that nirvakalpa state into the mundane life.
Thanks guys, very helpful discussion!
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kembolini
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
Posted - Sep 10 2013 : 2:00:36 PM
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This was a most useful topic.
I found myself in a similar place as tonightsthenight.
The pain of this world is difficult to bear if it is something that needs to be borne.
The best path is to accept your knowledge and move on unattached to that past experience. Difficult, I know.
In the end love will be your key. |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2013 : 2:42:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Christi, rereading the thread, how should I treat this? I would imagine just let it go, but should I expect to experience this more often?
Does this state eventually fuse with a waking state? I can't imagine being functional in this state for a number of reasons, including the horror of coming back.
Does Yogani mention this in lessons?
Thank you!
Dear Tonightsthenight,
Sorry for the delay, I just came across this thread today. Don't know if you are still following it.
People have done a great job of analyzing the heck out of this, above, from a technical standpoint, the meaning of the words, etc.
From a practical standpoint, the "horror of coming back" disappears once you realize there is nobody to come back and nowhere to come back to.
Nothing has changed, only our perception. That Unity is our essence, always there in our heart of hearts. You ARE "connected to that all the time." There's nowhere else to go, really. Everything else is just God's lila. This little self who dreads "coming back" is also God's lila. All is as it should be.
I would say this awareness does eventually "fuse with the waking state" or rather, over time we identify more with the Unity/Love, which becomes our vantage point from which we experience the waking state. And life goes on in a very "normal" way, by all external appearances, while on the inside there is silent ecstasy. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2013 : 7:30:51 PM
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Hey Radharani :)
I wasn't checking this thread but searching for something else and came across your post!
You are right of course, and there is such great contribution on this thread by everyone.
That pain I was talking about, that horror, well it was just a momentary thing, to be clear. Like a baby being born into a brutal world of kill or be killed. But of course the amazing thing was the compassion, and that is the natural response to the pain. And this compassion is.. Well.. It is everything.
It really is amazing, this process. What a wonderful community there is here, all these people finding the stillness and the moving ecstacy. Being and becoming. experiencing this.
When I came to AYP four years ago, I had no idea what was happening. Many years of being whipped around on a bucking bronco had taken its toll. And now just a little bit later, with the help of Yogani and this satsang, I'm in a place I'd never thought I'd be. So thank you radharani, and everyone! |
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