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snake
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 16 2013 : 12:48:32 PM
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when I practiced "the 4 techniques of Knowledge" aka guru Maharaji back in the early 70's khechari nectar technique was 1 of them.
i was able to push my tongue up behind the palate no problemm but was never told about higher places to aim for just to drink the nectar of the 1000petal lotus:).
I didn't really question this at the time but lately giving it some thought it seems strange
that such a technique exists as a practice,its almost like I'm questioning the whole of this doing techniques like Khecahri and sticking fingers in your eyes etc is starting to feel a crazy thing to do.I mean the whole oriya yoga trip especially the latter kriyas where yo move your head to different places whilst chanting different mantras seems almost alien to the natural state of being,I know that practices are useful but I'm just going through a lot of questioning that this all seems so forced and un natural.
thanks for letting me get that off my chest.
Chris |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2013 : 7:21:17 PM
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Hi Snake,
While I don't have experience to a level I am confident with yet, from theory, the practices as they manifest seem strange, but they create effects relevant the particular structure of the subtle body being targeted. To do this within reasonable time frames, there's reliance on methods that on the surface seem very strange and unnatural. Eventually by sticking to them, inner sensitivity emerges, and their effects can be seen whether in practices, or as in AYP in daily life as with the rising of ecstatic conductivity with automatic yogas.
One example is head to both knees posture, which generates it's own sensitivity. At first it seemed uncomfortable and awkward, but now some sensitivity is presented, it makes a lot of sense even if the theory in this case falls behind to try to explain the tension along the legs, its connection to the fascia and leg meridians, and the merging into the sushumna.
Intuition and sensitivity will emerge or should become more apparent after a few months or years. If not, either what's being practiced misses out on the basics, or exceeds the present level of development. The latter is under the assumption that all practices will be effective, and this may not be true universally, or to your specific context. This is where you take initiative and choose what feels most appropriate to you. |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2013 : 9:29:39 PM
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Dear Chris,
Seem to remember that you had asked a similar question in the kriya thread.. Clearly this stuff doesn't seem natural to you, and that is perfectly fine. Aum is right on - all these esoteric practices make a lot more sense when they start producing results. For example, the thokor kriya you are referring to (AYP chin pump is similar, minus the mantra). I practice it and it is the most powerful practice to increase ecstatic conductivity (at least for me and at this point). This is after years of AYP-only practices. Thokor is so potent that it creates a sense of being in a space where I drown in divine vibrations 24/7. A bit more and it is too much and self pacing is in order.
Now the question is why bother with all this when one can practice the "direct" method of self-inquiry? I agree whole-heartedly that this would be the best approach - if one can engage in it the way it is prescribed, which is continually. But that is not the state of the average seeker possessing a monkey mind and dense vasanas that drive him/her this way and that. Sitting practices (AYP, kriya yoga..) work on (1) cultivating a quiet mind that would eventually be ready for the type of rigorous one-pointedness required for the direct method, and (2) activate the energy and causal bodies where vasanas are embedded so that they can be worked out effectively and rapidly. Pranayama and other techniques work by the axiom that control of breath controls the prana. Thokor, for example leads to increasing periods of suspension of breath. When the breath (and therefore, prana) is still, the mind becomes totally quiescent, allowing one to experience what lies "behind".. IMHO, such glimpses are helpful to know experientially that which we seek in self-inquiry. Otherwise, direct methods become clever mind games for most (non-relational)..
It is really not mandatory to practice any kriya yoga techniques, including Khechari. I'd suggest sticking to what appeals to you.
Love. |
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snake
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2013 : 02:38:45 AM
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Thank you Aum and Kami.
I'm satisfied that the practices are appropriate for the times when needed..
Going to give them a miss myself but enjoy reading of others successes using them.
Namaste
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2013 : 06:08:34 AM
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Hi snake,
And what is natural? Tv, PC, IPAD, medicines, A/C, tools for machining,satellites, shoes, buildings, chemotherapy? They are all man-made, but generally accepted as natural, usually because people knew about it when they were young.
Kami, I agree, Thokar is awesome.
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Edited by - Will Power on Nov 17 2013 06:09:18 AM |
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snake
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2013 : 07:50:16 AM
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Hi Will
natural to me in this context means accessing my true nature easily as in breathing is natural,we don't need to do anything special to breath so maybe turning within
we can find out true nature without effort,thats what i meant.
thanks for replying
C |
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Mykal K
Germany
267 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2013 : 08:34:17 AM
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Hi C,
When something doesn't feel right, it is very good to explore the feeling and to follow one's intuition. I have regretted only the situations in which I didn't follow my feeling.
That being said, I would like to add the following:
When learning techniques from martial arts for example, people often find themselves feeling that the movement is unnatural, and that they have a feeling like they would rather do something else. It is something that happens with everyone or almost everyone, and for each being it is something else that triggers this feeling. It is there just till the body adapts. Then it feels right as rain.
Maybe your body just needs to adapt? Some techniques are maybe too advanced and have no meaning to our body at the moment also.
It is good that you are paying attention to your feelings. It is good to explore them since the information encoded within is not always evident. It sometimes takes some time for the truth to disentangle itself.
Best of luck! |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2013 : 08:49:13 AM
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Could it be that you are being called to ordinary simple meditation? If that isn't natural enough, the next one I spontaneously fall into is silent reflection, which really overlaps with self-inquiry. It's not lucid living, where one simply is aware, since there is a silent object of reflection or inquiry, which is the inner feeling of 'seeking something' that appears to be missing or not in the natural state.
quote:
Originally posted by snake
Going to give them a miss myself but enjoy reading of others successes using them.
The practices will always be there for whoever is called to them at whatever point in time. This is a great resource in itself. In the past it used to be reading obscure translations of symbolically encrypted materials whose relevance to various practices was not apparent, and its practitioner base inaccessible. It took a lot of precious time to read, reflect, and begin to connect the dots at the theoretical level. Now that there are more practitioners with direct insight and who are willing to share their progressive experiences, and the exact methods applied, this really changes the opportunities available. |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2013 : 09:11:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mykal K
Some techniques are maybe too advanced and have no meaning to our body at the moment also.
Yes, that was my impression as well prior to coming across it here, though it was very vague, and a source of great struggle ongoing for a number of years.
AYP summarizes it in one word with a new interpretation, "pratyahara."
It also qualifies the requirement in immediate and practical terms, in effect cutting out unnecessary baggage and grossly redundant, if not downright misleading, obstacles.
Certain practices (ex. pranayama, deep meditation) do have effectiveness even if sensitivity is not yet present, while others (ex. targeted bastrika) do require some emerging inner sensitivity and ecstatic conductivity. |
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snake
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2013 : 11:43:10 AM
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Hi Mykal and Aum.
thanks for replying.
ive practiced some of the mudras for a long time(40)years and had many energetic experiences and blissed out states
and I would never feel it wrong for anyone to practice such things,its just I've reached a point where I don't feel the desire for them anymore
and enjoy just sitting going deep into silence .I admit i don't get hi energy states anymore but i don't miss them,
I appreciate what the techniques gave in of themselves and we parted good friends.
thankyou all again.
C |
Edited by - snake on Nov 17 2013 12:40:42 PM |
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