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jonesboy

USA
594 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2013 :  2:30:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit jonesboy's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Just the other day my direct boss told me that another supervisor I report to say's I have not a chip on my shoulder not arrogant but something like that. I recently joined a FB group and was told my writing has an attitude to it.

What is bothering me is the fact I no longer look at things as competition. I try to be of service to my co-workers, company, friends and family. It brings me joy to bring praise to others more so than myself. My confidence in myself has increase in a manner that is far from arrogant. I know I still have a long way to go on my journey.

My question is. Did anyone else experience this type of thing from others?
lol I know not everyone will like me and I am ok with that. I just find these comments so strange because they are so far from my intent.

mr_anderson

USA
734 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2013 :  4:08:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit mr_anderson's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Jonesboy,

Personally from our various interactions, I have not detected any arrogance in your manner whatsoever. With regard to your concern about this, there are a few points I feel are relevant.

Firstly, over the internet, e-mail, facebook: It's so easy to misconstrue someone's tone, or imagine meaning in their words which simply doesn't exist or wasn't implied. I'm in the habit of reading and re-writing everything I send to someone, before I send it, several times, after considering how it might be interpreted from several different angles. Meaning is such a slippery thing when disconnected from facial expressions, tone of voice and body language. So on this level, it's highly possible you wrote something meaning one thing, and the reader interpreted the meaning in a completely different way from what you intended. I guess in these cases we just have to improve our skillfulness in manner of communicating, chucking in plenty of smiley emoticons tends to help set the right tone

Secondly, if we call another person "arrogant" or "rude" or whatever conceptual negative judgement the mind imagines for them, it's only ever our own mental projection - people in The Presence Process forums should be aware of this by now! All judgmental projections are based on a dualistic belief system that "he/she" is "separate" from "me", and this is "my" judgement of "him/her". Whatever we say that is negative about other people only betrays our own lack of love, empathy, compassion and understanding. It doesn't truthfully say anything about the other person. I like to do an exercise, when I feel inclined to to judge someone, which is use my imagination to put myself entirely in their shoes. Imagine how they felt growing up, as a young child. What their parents were like. What their fears and insecurities are. How they've suffered, and what joy or happiness they may experience. How they see the world. What they like to do when they are alone. Then the minds' transparent and shallow judgements evaporate like mist in the sun. Let us judge not lest we be judged.

Thirdly, the emotions that arise when other people judge us are fantastic opportunities for two types of inquiry. Firstly, I look inside myself and ask: What is really true in what this person is saying? Sometimes, even though they are projecting & so I don't allow the words to hurt, there is truth in what they are saying. There aren't many people who can't look inside themselves and find some arrogance. I know there can be arrogance in me. The words, whilst initially hurtful, may function as angels that bring to light our own blind spots. It's best to realize we didn't choose to be arrogant, it was just unconscious, automatic. We can free ourselves up over time by just being very honest with ourselves: observing our character objectively and allowing the light of awareness to penetrate the dark spots.

Finally, on a deeper level, there is something inside us which deeply resists being labelled. Stupid, fat, thin, arrogant, rude, lanky, spotty, slow, clumsy... whatever it is. The positive labels are actually no better than the negative ones. If we take ourselves exclusively for a separate object, a person, and the labels applied to that person (whether good ones or bad ones) we're missing a more important, truer and divine part of our nature. We're building our identification on something temporary, and we'll always be fighting to maintain the good labels, and avoid the bad ones, caught between feeling superior or inferior. The truth of our nature is that we are something beyond the objects we are aware of, such as our name, personality, body and mind: we are formless, something divine, the light of awareness. Pure bliss consciousness itself. Everyone shares this nature. It transcends all lables, but it's something inherently good, beautiful, and divine. On a deeper level, everyone knows they have this wonderful nature. It's more or less obscured, depending on the obstructions in our beliefs and nervous system, but it's always there. It's why many of us have an inherent desire to be free from being labelled, defined and boxed. It's why every human being deserves the right to be free from being the recipient of the inaccurate and insensitive projected labels of others. Since the world isn't going to change and be nice all the time, it's up to us to question who and what we are, and find the freedom inherent in the formless aspect of our being.

Love,

J

Edited by - mr_anderson on Oct 10 2013 4:16:11 PM
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jonesboy

USA
594 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2013 :  4:34:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit jonesboy's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Your a good man Josh.

Thank you for that very deep insight. It was felt and accurate on many levels for me.
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Radharani

USA
843 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2013 :  4:46:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit Radharani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear jonesboy,
I agree with everything that Josh said, above.

I've had a similar experience, in a way. I tend towards blunt honesty and a kind of sarcastic humor (although never intentionally mean or hurtful), and my writings have been extremely UNpopular on FB and among 90% of my colleagues at HOY. I've been accused of being "too negative" by some people, especially those who historically have been the most whiney/ drama queens themselves! (what Josh said about "projection".) But when I came here to AYP, my writings were received with great enthusiasm and enjoyment, and nobody here has ever called me "negative" or anything like that. Maybe we have a similar sense of humor, or a similar perspective based on our yoga sadhana, or...? Who knows. It's certainly worth taking the opportunity for self-inquiry. But we are who we are, and as long as we are acting out of Love, if some people don't "get" us, oh well. As my mother used to say, "you can't please everyone."
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2013 :  8:12:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
If you don't have much fear yourself, and you talk to other people bluntly, as if they have no fear, you can get in trouble because other people DO have fear.
So you have to go through this seemingly ridiculous procedure of small talk, find out what kind of person they are, what they might be sensitive to, then change your speech so as not to offend.

Then once in a while you have the surprising pleasure of meeting someone else with no fear. They let you know by being impatient with your small talk. Then you can skip all the formalities and get to the point!
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jonesboy

USA
594 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2013 :  8:34:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit jonesboy's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Radharani,

I know this is something that I need to integrate. This desire to be like and loved and the emotional response when it does not always happen. I am sure that even with the great masters there was someone that thought they were a jerk. Not that I am comparing myself to them..

This was probably a stupid topic made in an emotional state but this is the only place I can talk about this stuff. My life has changed since I started Yogani's teachings. My wife has changed and the whole family notices the difference in how everything is different and better. It all changed because I did and that is such a huge lesson. But no one wants to talk about it. My wife supports me and respects my practice but we don't talk about it(It's kinda like Fight Club :). My family gives me the ok that's kinda funny good for you smile. I have no true friends and have not had an acquaintance of mine to my house in over 10 years. I have two kids and since my daughters birth I have always felt she was special. She is the one who has taught me the joy of selfless service to others. Thank God I learned from all of you the right way before I tried to break her of such behavior. I use to view it as being weak. So wise, so wise our children. I am so proud of who they are.

I have a good life and it will only get better and I thank you all for that.

So please forgive my rambling. Your really all I got on this journey so beware! I will probably spam again someday
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jonesboy

USA
594 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2013 :  8:48:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit jonesboy's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish

If you don't have much fear yourself, and you talk to other people bluntly, as if they have no fear, you can get in trouble because other people DO have fear.
So you have to go through this seemingly ridiculous procedure of small talk, find out what kind of person they are, what they might be sensitive to, then change your speech so as not to offend.

Then once in a while you have the surprising pleasure of meeting someone else with no fear. They let you know by being impatient with your small talk. Then you can skip all the formalities and get to the point!



I almost wonder... I am trying to get past the ego and I wonder if I am not showing enough respect maybe compassion, understanding.. for those who are all about ego. They are my emotions, my response.. but i also still have to get along with my bosses even when they are dead wrong.

Ahh is that where surrender and trust comes in? To go with the flow and not try to control it.. To trust in God. To learn to listen to his guidance his nudge.
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2013 :  12:28:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes it's hard to let go and not control. Sometimes you know people are dead wrong, and you could easily show them their error, but they don't want to hear it. Then you have to avoid that subject, because they will always argue against you, while ignoring the obvious evidence.
You have to get to the point where you can just let people be disconnected from reality in whatever way they want, and you just adjust to it as if their reality is truly different, like a person from another country.
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kami

USA
921 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2013 :  07:11:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Jonesboy,

Your genuine sweetness and simplicity are amply obvious in your writings. I greatly admire people that can be that brutally honest about themselves - you are one of them.

Josh's words ring true, as do yours.

Like many, my life has changed in the most dramatic and subtle ways since taking up spiritual practices. Relationships with my family, colleagues, friends and patients are what I had never imagined them to be. And all that is simply because I'm changing. What are relationships, but the most clear mirrors? IMHO, the main purpose of relationships is to show us our own issues; all else is secondary. In situations like the one you describe, it is true that the other is projecting but that is less important. The true gift is seeing how that makes me feel.. And in that seeing, I am free (even while being knee deep in the situation).

Gregory Kramer's "Insight Dialogue" is one of the most profound books I've ever read. Truly life-changing. It is a practice I keep returning to, re-reading parts and finding clarity. Highly recommend it - takes spiritual practices into where it matters - interpersonal transactions..

Recently, I was reading something someone had written thinking wow, isn't that argumentative.. And suddenly, I saw that the only reason I noticed/labeled it is because it exists in me. In that seeing, I was overcome with love for that person. If I look deep enough, I can see that all "faults" I see in others are seen because they are in me. And I can think of at least one (and often more) situations where I've done exactly what I'm thinking the other "should not" do. And there is great compassion in that.

You are such a beautiful presence here Jonesboy. Thank you.

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mr_anderson

USA
734 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2013 :  07:58:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit mr_anderson's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
What are relationships, but the most clear mirrors?


:-)
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jonesboy

USA
594 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2013 :  1:05:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit jonesboy's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
kami

I do have Insight Dialogue in my library. I bought it at the same time I bought The Presence Process. I have been wanting to finish it and compare the two approaches to the same teachings.

It's funny, a year ago all I wanted to do was to learn how to meditate. I knew nothing of Yoga, non duality, Krishna or Buddhism. I was a baptized Christian who had stopped going to church and didn't trust the bible. I once saw a group of biblical historians discuss the Lords Prayer. There were members of all different sects and academia. They all seemed to agree that Jesus said about 5 words of it. What else is a lie? Why is there so little of his teachings, his words? Anyway my search kept bringing me back time and time again to this site. One day I finally said ok fine and clicked on the first lesson and was like "He is describing me" and his words were a gentle truth. I swear after two weeks of Yogani's teachings I was bursting with joy. It was like my soul had found home.

Bliss, chakras the breathless state. I have touched each one a time or two. It is all real. The joy filling up your day. The truth is their for everyone to see to feel to learn. So why is it most likely that our friends and family will never take the step to find out for themselves? Is it a calling that we all share? When I was young I had a calling to God that almost destroyed me. I knew I didn't want to be a Priest but the call, the pull was so strong and I didn't know what to do. I was a very confused and insecure little boy :)

Someone on this site once said they have shown AYP to 100 people and only 1 person has stuck with it. Is it a calling? Are we called to the path when we are ready either in this life or the next? It has to be because the truth is so easy for anyone to find out for themselves.

Edited by - jonesboy on Oct 11 2013 1:09:11 PM
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Arjuna

USA
69 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2013 :  3:17:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
“Knock, And He'll open the door
Vanish, And He'll make you shine like the sun
Fall, And He'll raise you to the heavens
Become nothing, And He'll turn you into everything.”
#8213; Rumi
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mr_anderson

USA
734 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2013 :  3:36:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit mr_anderson's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Become nothing, And He'll turn you into everything.


Beautiful.
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kami

USA
921 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2013 :  3:50:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by jonesboy

Is it a calling? Are we called to the path when we are ready either in this life or the next? It has to be because the truth is so easy for anyone to find out for themselves.



Hi Jonesboy,

Your questions seem rhetorical, so forgive the response.

Precisely!! As you say, we are called when we are ready. But that doesn't mean that the "others" are not making their way to God. The nature of existence is to seek That - I'd say we deem ourselves ready when we become conscious of what it is that we are seeking. All beings are also seeking God - in the form of fulfillment or happiness through material desires, sensual pleasures, etc etc. Who doesn't seek happiness? Just that some may think happiness lies in wealth, sex, drugs.. At the core of it, it is the pain of perceived separation from God that drives us to look everywhere for Him. It is only when we have been fulfilled to a certain degree with those things that we begin to see that true happiness has nothing to with any of those external displays. And thus the "calling" happens. It is simply not fruitful to ask a hungry man to meditate. He needs food first; only when the belly is full can the mind turn to God..

Like you, I was intensely drawn to God since childhood. The world seemed burdensome in my earliest memories. When I was 7 or 8, I asked my best pal when we were climbing trees if he noticed that we are always thinking. He said yes. Then I wondered aloud - if I know I'm thinking, who is the one that knows that? In that instant, my whole being froze and a "peace that passeth all understanding" washed over me. It wasn't until last summer when I had the same thing happen that I realized that is what I had been seeking since that childhood day perched on a tree branch.

Early on when I started practices, I was prone to having everyone around me "wake up" to seeing what I felt was the only worthwhile thing to do.. Until I saw that everyone is already doing that.. God wants to experience Himself as each one of us. When He feels it is time to return home, He will. Simple.

Much love.
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jonesboy

USA
594 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2013 :  7:35:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit jonesboy's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Arjuna

Kami that was great. It really was a question and perfectly answered. Thank you
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Radharani

USA
843 Posts

Posted - Oct 12 2013 :  01:43:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit Radharani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish

If you don't have much fear yourself, and you talk to other people bluntly, as if they have no fear, you can get in trouble because other people DO have fear.
So you have to go through this seemingly ridiculous procedure of small talk, find out what kind of person they are, what they might be sensitive to, then change your speech so as not to offend.

Then once in a while you have the surprising pleasure of meeting someone else with no fear. They let you know by being impatient with your small talk. Then you can skip all the formalities and get to the point!




yes. very true.

Edited by - Radharani on Oct 12 2013 02:15:30 AM
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Radharani

USA
843 Posts

Posted - Oct 12 2013 :  02:08:04 AM  Show Profile  Visit Radharani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by jonesboy

Thank you Radharani,

I know this is something that I need to integrate. This desire to be like and loved and the emotional response when it does not always happen. I am sure that even with the great masters there was someone that thought they were a jerk. Not that I am comparing myself to them..

This was probably a stupid topic made in an emotional state but this is the only place I can talk about this stuff. My life has changed since I started Yogani's teachings. My wife has changed and the whole family notices the difference in how everything is different and better. It all changed because I did and that is such a huge lesson. But no one wants to talk about it. My wife supports me and respects my practice but we don't talk about it(It's kinda like Fight Club :). My family gives me the ok that's kinda funny good for you smile. I have no true friends and have not had an acquaintance of mine to my house in over 10 years. I have two kids and since my daughters birth I have always felt she was special. She is the one who has taught me the joy of selfless service to others. Thank God I learned from all of you the right way before I tried to break her of such behavior. I use to view it as being weak. So wise, so wise our children. I am so proud of who they are.

I have a good life and it will only get better and I thank you all for that.

So please forgive my rambling. Your really all I got on this journey so beware! I will probably spam again someday



Dear jonesboy,

This was NOT a "stupid topic." I think it is something that everyone here can relate to.

As for some of the great masters being thought of as "jerks," I was going to mention that but you beat me to it.

When you said "you're really all I got on this journey..." I hear ya, bro. REALLY! That's the main thing I love about AYP - this sangha. I mean, yes, the Lessons and everything are extremely valuable, to be sure. But this is where I come to hang out with people like Josh and Kami and Etherfish and Arjuna - people who totally GET IT. People who understand where you are coming from and can share honestly from their own experiences. People without fear. Fellow travelers on this great journey Home. I can't even tell you how much I love everybody here.

Non-yogis don't get it at all (except maybe for some children, like your daughter). And pretty much every other yoga group I've belonged to has a sort of facade where people are trying to appear super-spiritual or nicey-nice instead of being real. Even in my own beloved HOY, yes I have a few good friends there who are very down-to-earth and genuine, but overall there are still a lot of folks trying to maintain the appearance of being "cool," etc. Only at AYP have I found a group of people who are so open, so real, so accepting of themselves and others - and so utterly devoted to their Yoga.

Welcome, bro!

Edited by - Radharani on Oct 12 2013 02:09:50 AM
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Radharani

USA
843 Posts

Posted - Oct 12 2013 :  02:14:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit Radharani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by kami

quote:
Originally posted by jonesboy

Is it a calling? Are we called to the path when we are ready either in this life or the next? It has to be because the truth is so easy for anyone to find out for themselves.



The nature of existence is to seek That - I'd say we deem ourselves ready when we become conscious of what it is that we are seeking. All beings are also seeking God - in the form of fulfillment or happiness through material desires, sensual pleasures, etc etc. Who doesn't seek happiness? Just that some may think happiness lies in wealth, sex, drugs.. At the core of it, it is the pain of perceived separation from God that drives us to look everywhere for Him. It is only when we have been fulfilled to a certain degree with those things that we begin to see that true happiness has nothing to with any of those external displays. And thus the "calling" happens. It is simply not fruitful to ask a hungry man to meditate. He needs food first; only when the belly is full can the mind turn to God..

God wants to experience Himself as each one of us. When He feels it is time to return home, He will. Simple.

Much love.



Yes! well said, Kami.
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whippoorwill

USA
450 Posts

Posted - Oct 12 2013 :  11:08:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Radharani

Non-yogis don't get it at all (except maybe for some children, like your daughter). And pretty much every other yoga group I've belonged to has a sort of facade where people are trying to appear super-spiritual or nicey-nice instead of being real. Even in my own beloved HOY, yes I have a few good friends there who are very down-to-earth and genuine, but overall there are still a lot of folks trying to maintain the appearance of being "cool," etc. Only at AYP have I found a group of people who are so open, so real, so accepting of themselves and others - and so utterly devoted to their Yoga.




I think I finally understand this dynamic, if you don't mind me straying off-topic just a little. I think I understand it, because I finally understand my own reactions...

When someone is unabashedly blunt about their real world difficult life situations, suffering arises in the person reading or hearing about it. (Or to be really blunt, when someone talks about all the unhappy crap they have to deal with, the person listening to their story feels suffering. ) The person listening to the story then thinks that the person telling the story is suffering.

Most people get into spirituality to end suffering. The listener makes suggestions, offers help, etc. with the intent of ending the suffering. When the storyteller resists the suggestions and subtly or not-so-subtly rejects the help, the listener is not allowed to end the suffering. At this point, the listener has some choices: push the storyteller away and ignore the stories; try harder to end the suffering; give the storyteller a piece of their minds; let the suffering go in stillness; and maybe more that I'm not aware of. Until the listener realizes that the suffering is arising in themselves and not in the storyteller, this cycle continues.

If the listener is strongly identified with the act of ending suffering, it gets even more interesting. They cannot be who they perceive themselves to be and allow the storyteller to simply be as they are. So the storyteller gets fear and anger in response to the story because the existence of the story is perceived as a threat to the listener's ego identification.

And sometimes, you get storytellers who don't resist the suggestions or offers for help, and you get a real interesting co-dependency. That cycle also continues and the suffering continues until the listener sees where the suffering arises.

Love!!
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whippoorwill

USA
450 Posts

Posted - Oct 12 2013 :  11:47:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
P.S. Myself, I chose to distance myself from and ignore what I couldn't help -- a manifestation of "See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil."

I think it's a big step from "ignoring what can't be helped" to "seeing and allowing all."

And I think it's another big step from "seeing and allowing" to "seeing and embracing" the absolute perfection of life as it is.
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Anima

484 Posts

Posted - Oct 12 2013 :  4:46:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Jonesboy,

Thanks for sharing. I care less and less about others' opinions on a daily basis. Living by someone else's rules gives them something over us: dominion. And it is artificial, and really, self-imposed.

Yes, most people I've known consider me arrogant. But that may be changing now. If only they knew how much I hold back! It's so easy to overwhelm them. It's not usually contempt I feel. My experience is something wonderful. I tricked myself into rationalizing it away with binding practices in the form of drugs and alcohol for many years. Still the bhakti burned through! But when I try to explain it to people, they can't usually come close to relating. There's a strange loneliness in me. I'm accepting that these vast fields of bright color and cold darkness are a sort of gift that I don't have to explain--their calling in me does wonderful things through my actions. But the nights can be long and restless.

PS, Arjuna,
quote:

Knock, And He'll open the door
Vanish, And He'll make you shine like the sun
Fall, And He'll raise you to the heavens
Become nothing, And He'll turn you into everything.
#8213; Rumi





Love and Light

Tom

Edited by - Anima on Oct 12 2013 5:12:42 PM
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Anima

484 Posts

Posted - Oct 13 2013 :  12:53:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by whippoorwill

[quote]Originally posted by Radharani

I think I finally understand this dynamic, if you don't mind me straying off-topic just a little. I think I understand it, because I finally understand my own reactions...

When someone is unabashedly blunt about their real world difficult life situations, suffering arises in the person reading or hearing about it. (Or to be really blunt, when someone talks about all the unhappy crap they have to deal with, the person listening to their story feels suffering. ) The person listening to the story then thinks that the person telling the story is suffering.

Most people get into spirituality to end suffering. The listener makes suggestions, offers help, etc. with the intent of ending the suffering. When the storyteller resists the suggestions and subtly or not-so-subtly rejects the help, the listener is not allowed to end the suffering. At this point, the listener has some choices: push the storyteller away and ignore the stories; try harder to end the suffering; give the storyteller a piece of their minds; let the suffering go in stillness; and maybe more that I'm not aware of. Until the listener realizes that the suffering is arising in themselves and not in the storyteller, this cycle continues.

If the listener is strongly identified with the act of ending suffering, it gets even more interesting. They cannot be who they perceive themselves to be and allow the storyteller to simply be as they are. So the storyteller gets fear and anger in response to the story because the existence of the story is perceived as a threat to the listener's ego identification.

And sometimes, you get storytellers who don't resist the suggestions or offers for help, and you get a real interesting co-dependency. That cycle also continues and the suffering continues until the listener sees where the suffering arises.

Love!!



Brilliant, thank you so much! I know you have listened to me. I think this part of your story is warm and beautiful.

When you say, "So the storyteller gets fear and anger in response to the story because the existence of the story is perceived as a threat to the listener's ego identification," this strikes me, in my experience, as the storyteller's not being able to let go of the listener's reactions (story of most of my life). The storyteller does not (often, unless we mean a rishi or sage) have fear of his or her narrative--we gradually come to accept it. So a narrator's attachment to his audience and their reactions often results in codependency or spiritual bondage. This is essentially the same as the less subtle act of a storyteller's taking suggestions of (likely unintentional) detractors or listeners. The latter are more detractors, because only another storyteller can listen instead of merely hearing for the sake of dispensing judgmental reaction.

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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1571 Posts

Posted - Oct 15 2013 :  02:14:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
@ Whippoorwill - Brilliant !!!



Sey
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whippoorwill

USA
450 Posts

Posted - Oct 15 2013 :  10:21:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Anima Deorum

When you say, "So the storyteller gets fear and anger in response to the story because the existence of the story is perceived as a threat to the listener's ego identification," this strikes me, in my experience, as the storyteller's not being able to let go of the listener's reactions (story of most of my life).



Oh! Yep. I didn't think of that, but yes! The flip side of the listener projecting suffering onto the storyteller is the storyteller projecting negativity onto the listener. I am soooooo guilty of that! It's much easier to hide from potential judgement by saying nothing. It's useful to ask, "who is judging?" And let it go...



@Sey
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whippoorwill

USA
450 Posts

Posted - Oct 15 2013 :  10:26:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by jonesboy

...this is the only place I can talk about this stuff. My life has changed since I started Yogani's teachings. ... My wife supports me and respects my practice but we don't talk about it(It's kinda like Fight Club :). My family gives me the ok that's kinda funny good for you smile....



Hi Jonesboy! I hear ya! So many parallels with my experience.

These chitinous shells do start to crack after a while.
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jonesboy

USA
594 Posts

Posted - Oct 15 2013 :  6:21:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit jonesboy's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you whippoorwill.

I may not be the sharpest stick of the bunch but I do believe I am starting to get it.

Thank you everyone

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