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Filipo1
Switzerland
21 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 13 2013 : 11:39:51 AM
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Hello,
I read here and there from various sources in the web (I know some are heavily biaised but some only) reports that Maharishi's TM practice sometimes results in negative symptoms of depersonalization, derealization and dissociation.
Despite my question might seem a bit naive addressing it to a convinced audience, I would like to know if anyone here is/has been going through similar unpleasant or even problematic states after practicing DM.
The problem with most of meditations' oriental spiritual background is that ego is often misunderstandingly disregarded and depersonalization could easily be considered as a sign of spiritual progress causing a lot of harm and confusion. |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2013 : 12:24:10 PM
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Dear Filipo,
To my knowledge, there has never been an incident of an AYP practitioner, who followed the self-pacing guidelines (which are in essence: If practices are making you feel bad, or negatively impacting you in any way, stop/slow down/reduce practice time), and came to any harm.
It is the practitioner who is responsible for regulating his/her practice, and the self-pacing guidelines are strongly emphasized by both Yogani and fellow practitioners on the forums.
Spiritual progress is something which calls upon one to develop extreme sensitivity and intuitive capacity. If we learn to listen to this capacity, and honor its message, there will be no need whatsoever for fear of overdoing practices, or in fact sinking into any sort of truly problematic experience, as our own inner wisdom will be guiding us.
Take it slow, be cautious, better to be safe than sorry. That's always been my motto for using powerful spiritual practices, and so far this has yielded immense joy and practical life benefits, with the very minimum of discomfort related to purification in the nervous system.
With love,
Josh
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Filipo1
Switzerland
21 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2013 : 4:55:11 PM
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Dear Josh,
Thank you for your very wise advice regarding self-pacing. This is definitely a crucial aspect of meditation that we tend to forget too easily, particularly for individuals used to compete (foolishly even against themselves) and chasing quick results.
It probably takes some time to be convinced that the guru is in us... |
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_shakti_
Canada
48 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2013 : 03:55:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Filipo1
Hello,
I read here and there from various sources in the web (I know some are heavily biaised but some only) reports that Maharishi's TM practice sometimes results in negative symptoms of depersonalization, derealization and dissociation.
Despite my question might seem a bit naive addressing it to a convinced audience, I would like to know if anyone here is/has been going through similar unpleasant or even problematic states after practicing DM.
The problem with most of meditations' oriental spiritual background is that ego is often misunderstandingly disregarded and depersonalization could easily be considered as a sign of spiritual progress causing a lot of harm and confusion.
To be honest, I'm not sure I see the problem? I suppose if it were let go too far it could be, but I personally perceive ego 'death' (to me that means it merely takes a backseat to spirit/soul) as a positive thing.
Yes, I've had periods of depersonalization and derealization.. and sometimes it was a bit disilluioning, but never scary. I recognized it for what it was.. a loosening of my ego's grip on reality. And quite often, underneath that state was pure bliss.. so I don't see this as a negative at all. I guess to me the key is that the process be gradual, so the advice above as to self pacing is very wise.
I should note that I meditate daily, with a mantra given to me by a spiritual teacher in India.. so very much like TM and the DM spoken about here. Do you have a current meditation practice? |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2013 : 10:13:40 PM
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As Shakti says, in the West awakening out of identification with the separate self, the aim of most enlightenment based traditions, is described as depersonalization disorder!
However, with regulated self-pacing, letting identification dissolve in stillness will be an intensely freeing, joyful experience. It will yield many practical benefits: improved harmony in relationships, decreased sense of separation, increased inner peace, perfect equanimity... ultimately a sense of boundless freedom, even in the midst of difficult times on the surface.
However it is also possible for identification to dissolve in a way that can be shocking, frightening and hard to process. If practices are carefully paced, and therefore the process is gradual, it will not occur in this manner. However, if people are using powerful practices and meditating for hours and hours each day, and perhaps going on very intense retreats, the collapse of identification can be very abrupt, and it may take years for the practitioner to overcome their shock, orient themselves, and hence allow the positive benefits to come through. Read Suzanne Segal's "Collision with the Infinite" for an example of identification dissolving in a shocking, frightening way - after what sounds like some very intense TM practice.
Identification really only collapses in the frightening way, either after a practitioner has brought some considerable violence into their way of practicing (by violence I mean unbalanced Yang energy - a kind of forceful, masculine pushing of things), or if the spiritual guidance or Guru forces this unbalanced Yang approach upon the students - without regard for its potential dangers.
From what I can tell of TM, there isn't such a deep understanding of the need for self-pacing, as there is with AYP. I've heard at Mahirishi's retreats the practice periods were very intense. Occasionally someone would end up in a psych ward. I'm the kind of guy whose entire mind can get blown with just 10 minutes of mantra meditation, so I am forced to be extremely careful.
Yogani's gentle, balanced Yin/Yang approach to practices will avoid such dangers. People who do spiritual practices should realize that realizing the truth of who they are: timeless awareness, not a separate physical body - is a consequence that practices can have. However, if they are careful, this will be a very good, loving thing... the best thing that ever happened to them, rather than a shocking ego death resulting in nihilism and impersonal detachment.
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Edited by - mr_anderson on Sep 14 2013 10:14:34 PM |
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Filipo1
Switzerland
21 Posts |
Posted - Sep 16 2013 : 2:46:48 PM
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Thank you both for your interesting comments.
I guess these aspects of soft ego-transcending and self-pacing are very much related to mantra-based meditations.
In contrast, quite a few zen masters are much more yang-oriented as you said, and might sometimes make you feel your meditation retreat is a kind of battlefield. However and interestingly enough, I never heard of problems mentionned above despite the fact that the zen tradition (particularly the rinzai school) claims to teach a way to suden enlightenment. |
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Filipo1
Switzerland
21 Posts |
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Can DM generate harmful effects?
