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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 11 2013 : 12:00:41 PM
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Yogani and Moderators please leave this in place I came to this entirely by accident and when I read it the truth of this reprinted post was so evident that it deserves a place of prominence no one will miss I just hope here is the place for it.
Yogani sir, you amaze me.
The following in answer to another thread but the content and wisdom stand on it's own.
The reason I say this is it is easy to discover AYP's stand on crown practices and overload and self pacing but here it is very well described just what and why.
Like Yogani I have often thought that all these energetic experiences are just the nerves adapting or as Yogani puts it friction due to the nerves not yet being purified.
A quick question just what is purification anyway the term is used alot but I fail to understand it perhaps Yogani would be so kind as to explain here.
Original conversation found here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=590
Hi Anthem:
There can be several layers of delayed effect. The most obvious one is doing a crown thing today that feels great, and waking up tomorrow feeling totally reamed. It can take a few days or more to get over that. Needless to say, goodbye crown practice when that happens, and rightfully so.
Then there is the imbalance that sneaks up over days, weeks or months of pushing just a little too much every day. That may not be as acute as the short term overload, but can take longer to smooth out. It is a general feeling of malaise, or worse, that tells us something is not right. There are all sorts of combinations falling between the short term overload and longer term overload.
For those who are crown sensitive and dealing with the ongoing effects of a premature crown (kundalini) opening, all of this gets magnified many times over.
All of which points to the crown being a tricky business. That's why I say, step carefully. The truth of it is, when we become ready via ajna to root practices, we will enter up into the crown smoothly and naturally without much fanfare at all. The fanfare (big energy symptoms, ecstasy, etc.) is the friction of energy passing through unpurified nerves. That is the so-called ecstasy we crave so much. We don't really need those symptoms to progress, but we are all looking for handles on our progress. It is understandable. So we press on... it is the bhakti-ego-practice-purification dynamic that leads us steadily (or not so steadily) toward enlightenment.
Btw, similar imbalance scenarios can be had by overdoing any of our practices. You had that going on a month or so ago, right? The difference between that situation and a crown overload is in the degree of power involved and the recovery time -- much much greater for the crown. The crown is like a spiritual vacuum cleaner that literally sucks all of our pranic energy up and out. This is great when the nervous system is sufficiently purified to handle it. But before that it can be a major reaming -- not very comfortable, and difficult to control if it gets out of hand -- shades of Gopi Krishna there.
On the difference between the brow to root and crown to root, the ajna (brow to medulla) is the area where we have greatest control over our whole body ecstatic energy, including regulating what goes up to the crown. Ajna means "command" for good reason. The crown is just the opposite in that respect. I sometimes call it "the white hole." ... like a black hole, only going up into infinity. Hey, better to get sucked up than to get sucked down!
In terms of characteristics, the ajna has the lore surrounding it about "other realms" and so on. To be honest, all that is pretty miner compared to the ajna's primary earth benefit, which is the rise of spiritual intuition. That has huge implications in our everyday life. Spiritual intuition enables us to know and do things here on earth that we could not even imagine before. To me, that is far more valuable than seeing or traveling in other realms. The here and now is where it is at. The somewhere else is for later when we leave here. There is no escaping the work we have come here to do. We can do it now, or do it later...
In contrast, the crown is a dissolving of everything we are into the great white all-consuming beyond. From there we can come back into the earth plane as that great white beyond. But to function energetically we will have to come back to the ajna, and the heart as well, which is another important aspect. The crown is the doorway to an infinite sea of cosmic energy. We can either draw upon it judiciously or be completely consumed by it. There isn't much in-between. Our surrender to being consumed is best regulated (self-paced) according to the condition of our nervous system, which is indicated by our experiences over time.
The way the AYP practices are set up, we have the opportunity to conduct our unfoldment in a manageable sequence, building all of our energy-related practices and experiences on a firm foundation of inner silence cultivated in deep meditation, and a balanced opening of our sushumna cultivated in spinal breathing.
In the old days, the great bhaktis took a flying leap into spiritual chaos and hoped to come out the other end in one piece. Only a few did. Now we all can.
It is analogous to the lone entrepreneur leaping off the cliff with eagle feathers tied to his arms, hoping to master flight, versus the Wright Brothers spending years systematically developing the easy-to-use controls that would enable all of humankind to take flight. The first approach has led to the second approach. And with the second approach, we don't have to jump off the cliff with reckless abandon anymore, though some may still be inclined to.
So the advice is, don't confuse the flying leap (crown) for the steady joystick (ajna). The crown we can test and enter very slowly as conditions naturally permit us to do so. In that sense, the crown is not really a practice at all. It is a doorway we are opening through a variety of means, so we can pass through easily at some point. The so-called crown practices are the testing of that doorway. At least that is the AYP approach. It is the ajna we can utilize with confidence for a smooth and progressive ride leading to full opening on all fronts.
The guru is in you. |
Edited by - Experientialknowing on Sep 11 2013 12:02:00 PM |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2013 : 8:42:22 PM
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Thanks for bringing this up,
it is really nicely written!! :)
It will be interesting when more AYP practitioners will start speaking about seuccesful full complete dissolution in the crown chakra in a smooth way.
The crown is also a good indicator how much purification and strengthening of the body-mind is still needed for longterm stable crown activity. Staying there for some minutes longer either does work or soon shows itself to be still too much :P
To the experience here bringing the crown into daily practice is also important at some point. It makes the difference between being identified with body-mind and being free here. There are lots of subtle cheats that can only be seen through when the body-mind energies refine in that way, that the crown can deliver.
I feel like it would be encouraging and more complete within AYP, if the first ones being able to dissolve in the white whole up there ;) and come back smoothly as often as they wish may document their tests and practices, as this aspect is the only one within AYP, that is left open to some degree and for this reason feels somehow not included and covered completely. True, it must remain open and uncovered to some degree, as that is the nature of the crown :P
Time will show how this will evolve here,
till then peace and happy practice to all :) |
Edited by - Holy on Sep 12 2013 8:45:02 PM |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2013 : 3:11:23 PM
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Hello HOLY, yes it is very well written and obviously by someone who does know and is not just guessing around. I am learning to have a great deal of respect for this Yogani.
Darn I can tell this is going to get long. Please bare with me as I attempt to put this into a writing that is meaningful.
Case One Yogani reports that
quote:
There can be several layers of delayed effect. The most obvious one is doing a crown thing today that feels great, and waking up tomorrow feeling totally reamed. It can take a few days or more to get over that.
This is absolutely true
quote:
Then there is the imbalance that sneaks up over days, weeks or months of pushing just a little too much every day. That may not be as acute as the short term overload, but can take longer to smooth out. It is a general feeling of malaise, or worse, that tells us something is not right. There are all sorts of combinations falling between the short term overload and longer term overload.
This also is very true.
quote:
the crown is a dissolving of everything we are into the great white all-consuming beyond. From there we can come back into the earth plane as that great white beyond. But to function energetically we will have to come back to the ajna, and the heart as well, which is another important aspect. The crown is the doorway to an infinite sea of cosmic energy. We can either draw upon it judiciously or be completely consumed by it. There isn't much in-between. Our surrender to being consumed is best regulated (self-paced) according to the condition of our nervous system, which is indicated by our experiences over time.
This is also why Crown practices can make your body feel tired.
Here is some of my background my current position and some experiences I would like to share to further back Yogani up and also provide some experiential telling.
I have been initiated into Paramahansa Prajnananda's line of Kriya Yoga KYI organization they teach crown specific techniques right from day 1. They also fail to teach great moderation in practice.
For those that do not know what Kriya is in simplest terms it is manipulation of life force in the sushumna and the chakras for the express purpose of puling into the central channel of sushumna via the doors of the 7 main chakra system and bringing the practitioner into samadhi states via identification with the energy system which is engrossing and pleasurable and makes concentration easy rather than a chore.
Kriya is a form of life force manipulation methods that the very doing provides the side effects immediately and and the side effects are that which draw one into extreme states of focus and altered states of awareness. There really is no good reason to practice this other than it draws you back to do it again like the quaker oatmeal commercial used to say " it's the right thing to do" From this practice you bring something back with you each time and overtime you do notice changes to your awareness and personality.
There are rough patches to get through and sometimes you have to deal with the changes and they are not all fun.
In the beginning there can be some emotional instability, and even some mental strangeness but overtime that smooths out.
Kriya is a group of sadhana practices. AYP is a group of sadhana practices. Names do not matter only results. It seems like they share allot in common.
The main ingredient is focus of awareness no religion needed.
Everyone without exception is drawn to pleasure and bliss and this is how it works until you go past bliss into samadhi states of quiet where even the energy flows rarely interrupt.
So this gets one started and over time one get tired of the toys and even though the bliss happens every time without exception the energy moves and is gradually felt stronger and stronger over time and one naturally gains control what is truly remarkable is that what once so grabbed the attention just becomes observed and takes no effort to find its place.
By this time though ones nervous system and brain have already changed quite a bit.
Sure as you start the energy moves the bliss follows you experience it accept it enjoy it and move past it.
But you are not moving past it out of some sense of this is what I must do or some idea that if you get caught up in it you will never go past it. Calling it scenery is a mistake in this energetic application.
Sure if you are just sitting watching your breath and you see things or have experiences it is just scenery. In this scenario just let it pass.
But this is not to be confused with that in Kriya it is the practice and the experiences that transition one from one state to another and the trick is paying attention to the subtitles the rest happens on it's own.
Do get caught up in it do experience it to it very zenith be as one as much as you can bare and then guess what happens? You go past it naturally anyway. Actually you do not go past anything you gently transition into a state where it simply is a non issue.
So easy so simple no need for beliefs no need fort must does and must not does no need for pay attention to his and ignore that or put it into a category of lesser-ness and just observe it.
Experience it and you will move on anyway the practice generates the experience the experience generates the states of awareness.
THIS FORM OF PRACTICE IS NOT FOR EVERYONE JUST THOSE IT FEELS NATURAL TO.
In the beginning however you do not want to let it stop and that is proper also because this is what generates the intense focus needed to enter samadhi.
Samadhi states occur on there own this way you just find yourself there and the rest is not there. Your awareness is in such a different state that banging the gross nerves for sensation of pleasure is not even a consideration and if the state is of a kind you will have nomind.
From this practice and other schools I am well versed in Crown experiences so I will write somethings here for others.
Dissolving into the white light of Sahasrara is not difficult getting sucked out through the crown is not difficult in fact it is the easiest mistake to make I do not claim to remember dying in a past life but I can say with certainty this is a path one takes who practices Yoga when they eventually leave the body.
For that reason it is not only very natural to have this happen but easy and I would say even dangerous if it were to happen unexpectedly which can happen if one overdoes the bringing of life force to the crown as KYI teaches.
1 Round of their brand of Kriya Pranayama is quite enough for most even though they permit up to 12 such cycles.
Personally I think this is irresponsible of monks to teach. It would be better if they were to say do not do more than 1 round twice daily than you can do up to 12 rounds twice daily.
It is my belief that monks are so used to having a controlled sheltered supporting environment that they just do not understand how it is for the rest of us who are not in the same environment.
It has been my experience that more than one round in a sitting will bring very unwanted results the following day minor side effects can be difficulty focusing on speaking to others as you have no desire to because the outcome of the conversation is fully seen all at once complete and pointless.
This is due to modifications happening in your awareness due to sadhana. This is what I call bringing back something of the experience with you.
For example let us say you start off as a white cloth as you dive deeply into sadhana the indigo contained there changes the color of the cloth little by little until you notice what was once white has now become indigo.
This is what it is like. Little by little the practice changes you. This of course is the very point of sadhana not just sitting around manipulating your nervous system to generate pleasure.
Difficulty focusing on mundane tasks because you are integrating newly established neural paths.
Time distortion. In other words hours flow like mere moments but from this one does learn time is subjective and you will never be burdened by work.
If you do too much you can spend the next few days with what is akin to a very bad hang over.
The physical body takes time to adapt. Powerful sadhana practices put a toll on the nervous system.
So some of this is not so bad and it is indeed a matter of learning to integrate what you are bringing back with you into your waking awareness rather than view it all as negative crown side effects.
Very nearly the same can be done by substituting the Ajna center. But with less side effects for some I guess it is different for everyone.
The main thing is to be mindful and self examine and know when to back off and not be caught up in some persons idea of a spiritual workout program like going to the GYM.
If someone says do this twice daily and you do and find you are tired than ignore them and do it once daily if this is too much then back off to every other day.
For myself practicing Kriya Pranayama substituting Ajna for Sahasrara works very well as after the pranayama is over the flow goes from Ajna to Sahasrara any way during the Paravastha stage.
This is what I do when I feel overload symptoms. I rarely feel overload symptoms unless I get adventurous and do 2 cycles of the Pranayama. Then the next day it is known and I may even take the day off.
Anything approaching 6 to 8 rounds will lead to involuntary events of getting sucked out through the crown.
Lets call it what it really is
"Dying"
Here is what getting sucked out of the crown feels like.
At first the body becomes immobile this is happening at the level of Muladhara and one feels the life being pulled into the central channel of Sushumna this is a curious feeling.
Swiftly one notice as they pass the second center that the lack of feeling in the lower extremities is becoming more complete and there are clouds of smoke at the edges of your peripheral vision.
As it goes up towards the third center there is an odd sensation of not quite indigestion it is like putting a heated piece of metal into water. This is more of a intuitive feeling as all body sensation is stopping.
When it hits the area of the heart there is vertigo and fear mixed with intense curiosity over what is rapidly going on and relief from having to breath.
When it hits the throat area hearing starts shutting down and physical vision ceases in this void this vacuum area there is calm and peace such nice profound peace there is a view of a cloudless dark sky that is not dark. This is kind of like looking at an LCD T.V. that is dark no picture but the back light is running yet the screen is black only the color is more of a bluish cast in the black maybe like early sunrise yet there is no sun.
As you pass the sixth center a different kind of seeing that was already happening takes place you see in a darkness that is not dark and it is here that a vortex is seen at the top of the head the seventh center and everything that you are is going up and out of it and you can see a fine white smokiness which is revealing the presence of the vortex beyond that I do not know because it was at that point when I would say 15 percent of my existence awareness had already slipped the chain and exited the vortex that something still left in the heart center pulled back strongly.
I found myself in the heart center vision and hearing coming back but still aware of the other as well and a very strong magnetism at the top of my head that left without focus on staying rooted in the heart in the body I would simply go out again.
If this happens to anyone remember to focus on the magnetism of your heart center it is physically felt on the back the back of your body between the shoulder blades center to low in position. Just focus by being there and feel the breath move in and out of this center. This does work but can take a little work at first.
This was all involuntary and happened as a result of practicing twice daily gradually working up to 6 to 8 cycles of KYI Kriya Pranayama for several months. Needless to say that was in the beginning, and I learned to self pace.
Of this experience I can say it was uncomfortable to have happen the way it did, it was unwanted and it happened several times accompanied by bouts of seeing through Ajna.
This was experienced with eyes wide open seeing the every day world with the regular eyes then there was a shimmering ring around my regular vision and through this ring of many colored electric lights I could see a blackness that was not black a darkness that was dark but not like night time this was in the center of vision and I had to look around it. I realized what was going on and did not care to see anything more and willed this way of seeing to turn off.
After all this realm can be quite enough why add to it? FYI I have passed a recent eye exam long after this event occured with flying colors no detached retinas nor tears etc.. Pressure in the eyes just fine.
The only way to calm it was to practice Kriya with great restraint going no farther than Ajna and simply observing the crowns presence which was that of a feeling of drawing magnetism and a disc of gold which I think is the center on the verge of full opening into white light and will pull you out, but not giving into the temptation of bliss fulfillment and being drawn in and finally the system normalized.
There is more to this but learning the fine control of these energies is not easy to express. It is something everyone figures out by experience I would guess. Still it all seems very familiar and there is no emotion of fear if anything there is a sense of detachment and just the joy of being.
When a person finds themselves in a bad place after an experience like this what they need is a helping hand, I hope what I have shared provides that helping hand for someone in need.
From this I can affirm that Maha Samadhi the final exit from the body that yogis are reported to perform is a reality and that it is not terribly difficult to perform just make sure this is what you want.
This is an example of daily OVER doing it just a little at a time building up and a short period of extended practice. Very easy.
Yogani has summed it up very well here it is the delayed effects that are the difficult thing noticing them usually only happens after it is too late.
But after you have had your 1st crown experience I will say this you will never be the same as you once were. There is no going back you have taken a step and now you have to integrate so normalizing in the wrong term.
Self pacing is the right term each step integrating what you have experienced into your very awareness. Your very nervous system and brain.
One last thing once you have lived in the crown center you will never be satisfied with any lower center expression of awareness again.
The trick is if like myself you discover you are to visit this crown center do it with extreme caution good focus and little application step back and observe what you are getting in return and just remember easy does it often powerful forces are changing you in many ways you can not feel and when you do you need to back off and let the body adjust do so without feeling like a failure just because some one has the idea that you should do X amount of sadhana be your own measuring stick.
Crown practices are not to be undertaken lightly of without a sense of great respect and caution. In my experience they are to be undertaken very lightly and in a very limited fashion they are like concentrated laundry detergent only a drop is needed otherwise it is suds everywhere. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2013 : 8:20:37 PM
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Hi Experientialknowing,
thanks for your report. Whenever the crown is mentioned, a practitioner of KYI pops up, really funny :D KYI = crown = king? ^^ Seems like they have the most intense crown experiences to report from ;)
To the experience here, the crown cannot be activated so easily so strongly, so what happens with KYI kriya is really special. All the other kriya schools focus on the ajna or at the end give the crown some attention, but it is only a small portion in comparison to the first 6 chakras, so everything remains balanced.
To correct my post above, AYP has also some elements which adress the crown besides the tapping that is mentioned in some of the crown-lessons.
- Mantra enhancement with "Shree"
- Cosmic Samyama
- Root to crown spinal bhastrika
- indirect crown opening and purification by diving again and again into pure bliss via DM
Shanti and Christi had good progress with the crown via AYP practices as far as I remember :)
Again @Experientialknowing,
your case shows similiarities to someone in this board named kriyawit aswell, speaking of intense crown experiences after ~1 year of KYI kriya. Have you found balance with 1 pranayama round now or is it still unstable?quote:
It has been my experience that more than one round in a sitting will bring very unwanted results the following day minor side effects can be difficulty focusing on speaking to others as you have no desire to because the outcome of the conversation is fully seen all at once complete and pointless.
This is also the experience here, but it is not a problem and pretty natural and fully in peace and bliss. The only strange thing is, that because the words do not come out fluently, the other person looses his ability to speak aswell and both dive deeper and deeper into that silence between words. But after some time the speach normalizes again, still here it is a good indication that the crown should get some minutes less for some weeks/months :)quote:
yes it is very well written and obviously by someone who does know and is not just guessing around. I am learning to have a great deal of respect for this Yogani.
Yogani is Nr.1, the reason why we are all here :D
Peace and happy practice :) |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2013 : 11:45:49 AM
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HI HOLY
I am not surprised that other people who practice what KYI teaches have strong crown reactions / experiences.
In fact it is not surprising that the crown experiences are so intense each and every Kriya practice 7 to 8 in a session of first initiation always are done with most awareness seated in the crown so it is not just one but several and they are grouped in a proceeding order to give maximal effect.
The idea of this school is to take you from the point of everyday life and a restless state into a deeper and deeper state 1 technique at a time once you reach there version of Kriya Pranayama towards the end the soil has been cultivated to plant the seeds.
long before you get to their brand of Kriya Pranayama you have already performed Kriyas to separate ida and pingala from there knots at sushumna so entering sushumna becomes much easier as well as moving prana inside of it.
It would be interesting to know how many people drop the KYI practices because of side effects.
As far as other schools that teach Kriya I do not know of any that focus on the crown in fact a few even say to avoid it until later. I have taken initiation in other schools prior to KYI and am aware of the differences.
The way I practice is a blending of different techniques I do not just practice the KYI way grouping nor sequence.
What I do is take all of the practices I have learned and practiced to the point of proficiency and group them accordingly. The only mainstay is that of moving from everyday life to inner life so more rough Kriyas are performed in the very start and gradually become more refined techniques.
I determine what is to be practiced in what sequence by first sitting I practice talavia Kriya Talavia Kriya is not taught by KYI just to be clear to fellow initiates that are thinking hey they did not teach me that. which helps clear the mind and achieve focus I then enter the silence deeply focus on the crown then on every center on the way down and as each one resonates with energetic expression often causing the sound of OM to reverberate in the spine I move to the next until reaching Muladhara and begin the upward journey.
By the time I reach the crown or Ajna I intuitively know which of the Kriyas from the different schools I have learned to practice from in which sequence and number of repetition as well as variation.
To be clear I do not always even start at the crown with the first technique I only do so when I know it is proper to if not I stay at Ajna going down then coming up.
As Yogani says the Guru is within you.
By the time I reach the 5th center on the way up verbal thought is already long gone gone identification with the energy body has taken place and Kechari slips into place on it's own.
If it does not slip into place on its own that is okay too I take that as confirmation that the nervous system does not want this strong connection during this sitting.
So if it happens early good if it happens later during other Kriya techniques or even only in Paravastha or the phase where one has done the kriyas and now sits and witness what follows that is good too if it does not happen that is okay but the sessions are generally not as strong nor the states of awareness as deep.
Forcing kechari when it does not happen on it's own is just not the same. Kechari Mudra is a Mudra that is not taught by all schools. It is taught and required by the stricter schools before taking further initiation. One thing they all agree on is it happens when it is time for it to happen.
So anyway that is how I work with Kechari Mudra. I gave that a bit of attention because that 1 mudra takes a while to grow into.
I find it is best for me to practice this way since I am dealing with the energy body and the nerves I let them dictate the sadhana I always end with Mahamudra though as I have found is a good way to reintegrate with the physical world and helps even out the flows of energy in the system this seems to help ground the nervous system and dissipates many unwanted side effects.
The main feature to all Kriya schools is untying the knots or blocks in the astral spine and entering Sushumna as long as you get in the center the way and the method do not really matter they are just tools.
I have found balance with one round it is sufficient, but true balance has more to do with what I have just described above rather than following a system set in stone.
Granted there are not many differences but just a little adjustment makes allot of difference. For instance some days it is not a good idea to practice Navi Kriya at all. Other days it is a good idea to practice 1 round on others it is a good idea to practice 3 or 4. Different schools teach Navi Kriya differently some tap the navel with the thumbs as I was initiated to do so and others do not. Some teach Talavia by placing suction at the roof of the mouth others say only to stretch your tongue up to your nose and down to your chin. A person has to find out which version works for them not someone else. Navi Kriya is not taught by KYI just to be clear to fellow initiates that are thinking hey they didnot teach me that.
I think allot has to do with the level of focus you bring to the practice and the grouping of Kriyas prior to getting there.
Lets say someone is a beginner and does not really even feel energy in its many different ways I suppose they could do more than one round and it would be okay because they have not yet learned how to even truly feel the energy let alone its many different grades and frequencies nor have they likely yet learned that moving the energy is done without the breath as a guide as well as with or with no breath at all.
When you get to the point where you are moving energy with proficiency and are in drastically altered states of awareness where body sensations have dropped off largely and the energy moves on its own and drags the breath after it then not so much is needed because every movement of prana is hitting the bullseye so to speak and not missing the target. I think of this as prana pulling breath which is the reverse of breath moving prana.
So what I am trying to point out is the better you get at it the easier it is to get an overload condition to sneak up on you.
Once in a while I press on and do 2 rounds just to calibrate where I really am in correlation to where I think I am.
Sometimes no problem sometimes it causes a slight overload condition the next day and I take that day off or only seat awareness in the 6th center sometimes the following day will still not be quite correct feeling so that day is taken off also.
I then wait and the desire to sit grows and when I do sit for Sadhana it is always better than if I had forced the issue.
quote:
To the experience here, the crown cannot be activated so easily so strongly, so what happens with KYI kriya is really special. All the other kriya schools focus on the ajna or at the end give the crown some attention, but it is only a small portion in comparison to the first 6 chakras, so everything remains balanced.
I suppose you are right I never experienced activation until learning their methods as you say most only focus on the first 6 centers but I do not agree that this brings balance.
In fact most Kriya practitioners I have met or read posts from are rather unbalanced and a pretty unfriendly my guru is better than your guru our method is the only true way bunch of unhappy people..
KYI is no different but they also focus allot on Bhakti Love of God and I think this helps soften some of the hardness of the lower four centers.
In fact strong activation of the first 4 centers which occurs in all Kriya systems is likely the cause of quite a bit of unbalance in Kriya practitioners. From this I think there is a strong case where anyone practicing Kriya or any other Tantra based energetic system learn to cultivate compassion and humility so they do not get so uptight about where they are expressing from and actually see and correct what might be going on.
I have seen it where no compassion is learned and a person is dominated by pure scathing intellect and this most certainly is a trap as well as those that are overwhelmed by feelings of love and emotionalism. Both belong to influence of the 4th center. Both are often confused with being of a higher nature but in fact are just another thing to integrate and balance.
I know this from experience.
The methods KYI teach are actually good for bringing out this balance believe it or not but this whole over preoccupation with the crown itself causes too many issues. If one drops back to Ajna keeps the awareness seated there predominately and does all the practices from this center or even the throat center if this is too much one will get the actual balance quite easily.
The throat center is often overlooked but is a good one to come to know it is safe in that it is above the lower 4 but is not a likely to disrupt ones mental field as much as can happen with the higher centers. I think it is a nice stepping stone up.
The thing to understand is the centers each have there own vibratory rate, there own frequency and each heavily influence the mental field. The whole theory or technology of the KYI system is to get a persons into the energy body and recognize the centers but because each center has influence on the mental field one has to be very careful not to allow awareness itself to become falsely identified with each center colored by it and be in even more delusion or awareness covered and colored by a layer of condition.
This is why the emphasis on staying in they crown keep awareness there 90 % percent is what they always say. I think this is a good technology and is something more recent to develop as H.H. did not teach this way. I also think it is not complete yet but on it's way.
Most Kriya schools teach the technique of Kriya Pranayama proper without grounding awareness in a higher center predominately, they will teach keeping the focus in Kutastha but do not go so far as to root awareness there and practice Pranayama from there as the home base so to speak.
Usually it is more like AYP spinal breathing. Even here there are some differences. So yeah if anyone takes KYI initiation and has crown problems just drop down one or two centers as home base. I think it is best not to go below the 6th if one can help it but that is for the individual to decide as Yogani says the Guru is in you.
Okay I think that about sums it up for now. Whew another long one.
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2013 : 7:58:56 PM
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Hi Experientialknowing,
Long, but full of good observations out of own experiences, which is the best, so thanks for them :) It is interesting, that lots of what you observed happens here aswell, including the kechari thing ;)
Not much to comment on all the points, they may be a help for those who are engaged in KYI techniqes and for those who have too much crown activities going on via similiar techniques.
To the experience here, problems also occur, if too much kutastha concentration happens. Tests with the throat chakra seemed to have less problems, but can also unbalance things. What works best here, is to give the first 6 chakras the same amount of attention and less to the crown. But without the crown it is also not really balanced, so the crown adds greatly to the overall balance, if approached in correct doses. A lot of pressure in the bodymind can be smoothed out via the crown and it happens in a way that feels "as it should be", very nice and "correct" :)
Again it is interesting that you had to bring in other elements of practices to find balance. The other KYI practitioner mentioned the same, he also added from the other kriya pool so to speak =) As long as it works for you in the longterm, very good. But it sounds like you have to permanently adjust your practice. Do you still feel good progress happening with this "handling"? For me this was something I could not work with, the practice itself needs to remain stable aswell to work here best with daily life. For me it was quite a suffering to either have to self pace constantly or to have to try other practices to have the desired results. There are not many systems that remain stable on all levels and still give continuous satisfactory progress to the observation here. I'm sure over the longterm, several decades ahead science will catch up enough and be able to create ideal practices and technologie to support the whole process. So far I see lots of struggle and because of this lots of ongoing practice experimentations.
Still, if the bhakti is there, what can you do else then to continue, no matter what and for how long it may take :) For this, happy practice :) |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Sep 16 2013 : 6:45:04 PM
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Hi Holy sorry busy with work the last couple of days have been really long and time sensitive. Success with all objectives met so pleasing results but not much time for replies. So here we go.
quote:
But it sounds like you have to permanently adjust your practice.
To answer this best a little background first.
Actually what happened even from the start was my natural curiosity got the better of me and when that happens I research a topic exhaustively. I went on the hunt for the original Kriya and learned allot.
I practiced what I learned and gained experience from doing so from the different schools. I went through different phases where Oh this is it Shibendu teaches the one true Kriya and so on never quite satisfied. Never quite believing any of the sources yet within each source there was a kernel of truth so I focused on the commonalities of each and there in was the only possible deductible truth.
My conclusion was that Lahiri Mahasaya trained everyone individually and did not teach everyone the same set of Kriyas nor did he teach them identically.
This is why the original Kriya can not be found in one source it is spread out among all the descendants of those L.M. originally taught whom he never taught exactly the same way nor the exact set of Kriyas. Kriya was taught very individually per the persons need not a formula of one size fits all.
To compound this further over the decades so much time has passed and the people having the methods have also changed them.
So I gathered as many techniques from the Kriya teachers I found suited my individual temperament as possible and practiced according to the rules of each individual source with deep respect for each source school.
Over time I noticed that it did not feel correct to practice this way and it was a hard road breaking my thinking of stick with it.
Eventually what happened was I did not decide to self pace nor did I decide to adjust my practice. As in my last long winded writing the practice started informing, me sure I have a general outline going from rougher to more refined but it is the energetic body that tells me what of the accumulated experience of doing to do. So it is easy it also percolates up from the subconscious during the day I wil just know what to do or if I ask myself just like this:
What is it I am to do? Then I will get the whole routine for the next sitting.
For example I already know tomorrow morning will be a minimal practice of the following:
Focus on the crown during all with Shambhavi Mudra.
Talavia
1 round focusing on the centers
KYI based forward bends
sit in silence.
During the day I will know what to practice in the evening. Sometimes it is nothing at all.
The thing is one has to mature past the point of workout mentality which is one of a set schedule and all the am I being lazy by not practicing stuff in the beginning these are valid for some but have not really been so for me as it was desire to practice Kriya that has always made me sit.
Were it any other way I would not.
So in closing on this reply no I do not have to constantly adjust my practice. I just accept the feedback the inner promptings and comply with it.
This takes a long time to develop and you must know the rules first and understand the technology of Kriya theoretically and then experientially by doing. |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Sep 16 2013 : 6:56:16 PM
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Holy
quote:
Do you still feel good progress happening with this "handling"?
How do you define progress? With what measuring stick?
Please tell me your criteria and I will let you know. I never seek advancement, I never seek experiences. What I do is participate and witness. That's all, I work on always perfecting my performance of the technique with deep attention. |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Sep 16 2013 : 7:00:10 PM
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Holy
quote:
For me it was quite a suffering to either have to self pace constantly or to have to try other practices to have the desired results. There are not many systems that remain stable on all levels and still give continuous satisfactory progress to the observation here.
The Guru is in you the way that works best for you, is for you. I know too simple but true anyway.
What is this continuous satisfactory progress you refer to? 
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Sep 16 2013 : 7:51:00 PM
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Hi Experientialknowing,
Thanks for sharing the quotations from Yogani as they relate to your practices and experience with the crown. It helps me understand what Yogani is saying and expands my understanding of what is possible energetically when dealing with the crown.
Holy,
Your questions and comments were very useful too.
May the dialogue continue.
Namaste,
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2013 : 08:55:37 AM
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You are welcome bewell.
It is interesting to me that Yogani is so correct about this I am going to have to make the effort to look at the AYP, practices more carefully.
Methinks there is quite a bit to learn from Yogani. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2013 : 6:45:47 PM
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@ bewell,
then let's continue this dialog, even though chiming in of AYP practitioners would be nice aswell :)
@ Experientialknowing,
when practice amounts increase and more karma releases, then obviously more life happenings simultaneously ask for attention, so this answer comes a little delayed aswell :) And life may bring you automatically to a point where you may need to reduce the amount a little as it happened yesterday evening here, so today was much less activity and life itself supported to practice this evening a little more. As you say, after some time what amount of practice and which kind of techniques need to be practiced may happen to be adjusted smoothly aswell. If it works, all is fine :) Working means no suffering, all in peace and as it should be.
Coming to the "good progress" Definition :P It is very individual, if you are happy with the practice and its outcome, then this is satisfactory progress :)
After having practiced lots of different systems, you get to know what is possible and then you may choose that which makes you more happy. Lets say half of your life you only eat the food of one cook. Then suddenly you are invited by life to taste the food from another cook and somehow it not only tastes better, but also feels better, stomach is happy, health is better, digestion is smooth and so on. Then going to other cooks, trying different meals it becomes more and more clear what is the best for you, aka what satisfies most :) Continuous satisfactory progress for me is as far as what has happened here (so it is relative to this body-mind-karma):
- the spiritual practice supports itself to happen continuously by being a cause making everything from gross to subtle work for the practice to happen nicely and wonderfully (part or all of this may be the grace of a master aswell)
- the practice itself works ideal for your body-mind-lifestyle, means the body-mind does not get ill, can continue functioning in daily life and does not become a burden to itself or to other bodyminds
- day by day, year by year the karmic purification continues and with a clearly perceivable tendency to be permeated more and more by all the godly qualities of joy, peace, bliss, grace, love
- the capacity of the body-mind is rising to not only be a stronger vehicle for this happiness to express but also to be able to elevate all the other body-minds increasingly to this joy and grace
- the rising capacity of the body-mind to become still from the grossest to the subtlest to give way for that eternal best to come to the foreground
- increasingly smooth life happening in all aspects and topics of life, making it a joyous and healing play of love
Ihis is not to be taken so seriously, there was just the question if you are happy with the KYI kriya kombo you are practicing :) At least here it looks like there are some thigns one can learn from KYI regarding the crown, even though it does not sound to be applicable in many lifestyles for the everage practitioner. Kriya as taught by Lahiri was supporting family and social life more, while the kriya of Hariharananda seems to support a secluded or monk-style life more. Practicing the kriya of Yogeshwarananda it was clear for me that this will not work with daily city life and studying and working :) Gurunath's kriya which is very Close to Lahri's first kriya works very nice. It realeases huge amounts of karma and makes parts of it dissolve directly in the sitting session and the rest in a godly way through life itself.
If you have added from the Lahiri pool of kriya and still practice KYI with it, then this also tells about you and your lifestyle :) Practice-style and life-style are connected so intimately.
As long as it works, all good, so happy practice and thanks for all the contribution here :)
PS: The crown topic can continue again (after a small sidetrack :D) |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2013 : 11:40:27 AM
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Hi Guys,
My experience with the crown has been the same as Yogani's, that it is a very unstable chakra that needs to be approached slowly and with great caution.
I started crown chakra practices about 8 or 9 years ago. At first I spent a long time doing the "testing at the crown" approach outlined in lesson 199. Gradually I was able to add root-to-crown spinal bastrika, and slowly extend the testing process. Eventually, after many years I was able to simply rest with my attention in the crown for as long as I wished. Usually I tended not to though, because I realized that Yogani was right about something else too, that it is the purification of the lower 6 chakras that leads to the purification of the crown more than anything we do at the crown itself. So whenever I had time for spiritual practice, I would focus on root-to-third eye spinal breathing and meditation and only spend a little time on crown practices.
Gradually the crown dissolves, and it dissolves into pure-bliss-consciousness. This means that nothing is felt at the crown any more. When this happens there is a shift to the heart. So when the attention is brought to the crown it is automatically brought down into the heart. The experience of this is one of divine love. There is a channel called the amrita nadi which connects the crown and the heart. It becomes as if life is lived from the heart and radiates out from there as a flow of love into the world. That isn't quite true though, as it is also as if the heart expands to contain the whole world. So there isn't a flow from one place to another, but rather an abiding in being where everything is sustained through love. This is the meaning of the word unity.
It isn't an all or nothing process, so for a long time there are moments when the attention is brought up into the crown in bliss, and then into the heart in love. Gradually the heart becomes the predominant place of abiding. So the crown dissolves into pure-bliss-consciousness in the heart and dissolves into ecstatic love in the heart.
Christi |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2013 : 11:48:44 AM
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For those who are interested, I think the following words follow up on what Christi has said above...
Practices from the Zhang-Zhung Nyan Gyud
as transmitted orally by
Lopon Tenzin Namdak
Thödgal refers to the nature of the state of Rigpa.
The Natural State (rigpa) pervades our entire physical body, but it is especially concentrated in the hollow cavity inside of our physical heart.
The Kati nerve is a tube like hollow channel. By means of the wisdom winds (ye-shes kyi rlung), the Natural State (rig-pa) comes up through the channel from the heart.
This represents an important method: the Natural State (rig-pa) comes up out of the heart, moves along the Kati nerve and goes out through the eyes. This Natural State (rigpa) shines through the eyes, that is, it comes up through the channels and goes out through the eyes, although actually the Natural State(rigpa) is immovable. Between our internal space and external space beyond, we have a window or door.
The Natural State (rigpa) resides in the heart and it comes and goes through the Kati channel and through the doorways of the eyes. Here we can find the unification of energy and awareness. Unification of these two exists equally everywhere from the top of the head down to the feet, but normally this situation is covered over with obscurations, and we do not see it clearly. But it is clear in the Kati channel and here it is like the sky without clouds. This is an indestructible gnosis or knowledge.
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2013 : 3:44:08 PM
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To Holy Quite right I will meet you over at that discussion started by Kriyawit and reply to some of your last message. See you soon.
To everyone I have been reading a book on the six yogas of Naropa on Jeff's recommendation. I am amazed to say at the very least that I have had the experiences described in this book and am pleased to see my theories substantiated concerning the rise of Bliss which starts at the crown and then moves to the throat, then the heart and then the navel, each ecstasy being unique even as I have experienced.
Furthermore what I took as the union of Shiva and Shakti occurring they call the Karma Mudra which is with a human female partner if you are male, the Jnana Mudra which is visualizing the partner and finally what they call mahamudra not to be confused with the Kriya practice where there is no partner nor imagined partner where one experiences the immutable ecstasy soley through union with her.
Now I have never attempted this with another person but have had it occur on its own in the paravastha phase of Kriya after the Kriyas are performed where I have had the physical sensation of being mounted by a female and the combining of the forces of Shiva and Shakti were what I took this as, in other words the mind creating a construct to support the experience.
I was aware of the Jewel Chakra as it is called in this tradition at the tip of the penis and would instinctively draw the ecstasy energy from this into the crown which then became the Mahamudra spoken of in this book. The mental construct cease to exist at this point. Little did I know I was practicing part of the 6 Yogas of Naropa.
I really need to find a teacher on these 6 finishing Yogas, thanks to you Jeff I am finally getting an idea of what has been happening and the direction to go from here. |
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Yogani's Crown Answer to the point and right on
