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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 20 2006 : 4:10:00 PM
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"It's important to remember that the Truth is not always nice -- it's just always the Truth."
-- Adyashanti
"Enlightenment isn't freedom _from_ being human; enlightenment is freedom to _be_ fully human."
-- Adyashanti, paraphrasing The Buddha
Hi Shanti & All,
I _completely_ get, and respect your experience ... I'm "wired" very much the same way (egoically / karmically / historically). In recent times, though, I've experienced the power of the quotes offered above --- there's a sense of strength / neutrality / authenticity / non-duality in any moment of full presence - regardless of the specific human emotion moving through us.
Some emotions do tend to drop away completely and permanently as awakening / "enlightenment" / embodiment progresses -- but I've never heard claim, even once, that anger is one of them -- especially not from anyone who is clearly, authentically an awakened / enlightened being.
Anger seems to pretty much always be available to all of us, at any time - especially when someone we love is endangered, or bitten (either literally or metaphorically) -- (Please see stories such as: Jesus Christ, Temple, Moneychangers; Yogananda, student named Kashi dying, "chat" with Kashi's father at son's funeral, etc.).
: )
Aum Shanti Shanti ShantiH & Namaste,
Kirtanman
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bipinjoshi
India
30 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2006 : 5:27:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Hi Bipin,
Thanks for sharing. This story is very similar to Chapter 6 in "Autobiography of a Yogi", about the Tiger Swami? http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Autob...gi/Chapter_6
When Paramahansa Yogananda asked Tiger swami "Do you think, revered swami, that I could ever fight tigers?" Tiger swami replied "Yes, but there are many kinds of tigers; some roam in jungles of human desires. No spiritual benefit accrues by knocking beasts unconscious. Rather be victor over the inner prowlers."
yes. I have read both. The one I posted is commonly told here during Satsang programs. |
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avid_seeker
India
5 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2006 : 08:26:59 AM
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Hi all,
I have been a silent reader of most of the stuff you guys discus for quite some time now. Frankly I find everything you say quite fascinating. And Shanthi, your old post ( I only saw it today!) about anger was like manna from heaven for me. Why? Becuase i have the vilest of tempers which see's me exploding over trivial issues despite my best intentions to stay calm. Interestingly enough, a part of me remains a silent but mute witness to my rages, aware but powerless to prevent the explosions. The fact that i always cool down fast and regret it deeply doesn't help! I have also noticed that my temper is at its highest just after my meditation sessions, which I think is the opposite of what it should be. Right? Come on, GIVE! How did you get things under control where your temper is concerned? It is the one human failing which can negate just about all one's plus points. I have got every other vice and habit sublimated......i have quite cigarettes from 5 packs a day, become almost vegan in diet, got over my coffee addiction and stopped it and tea completely, as also liquor. You name it and the urge for it is gone. But this one hangs on stubbornly! Any advise you can give me?
May the Universal energy always bless you. May divine bliss be yours.
Love,
Venu |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2006 : 12:23:38 PM
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| Venu - That was a great post - I respect your honesty. It's amazing that you've been able to control so many vices. My thought on your anger being at its worst just after meditation is that the meditation is working on it, stirring it up and moving it through you in order to transform it into something else. My understanding of energy (in this case, anger) is that it doesn't just evaporate - it transforms into something else, and since you have so much of it, you may start to notice another form of energy creeping into your life. Anger, zeal, bhakti are some of the different packages that energy comes in. Personally, I admire people who have a lot of anger, as I'm attracted to the power and passion behind it. |
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avid_seeker
India
5 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2006 : 05:05:13 AM
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Hi Meg,
Thanks for the vote on the post! Actually, it wouldn't be accurate to say that I have CONTROLLED all my vices. If I had, yes it would have been amazing, as you put it. But what has happened here is that due to the practices I have been folowing, as also the subtle shifts in my thinking process, I have slowly lost the urge to indulge in those habits. There is a subtle difference there.....in the first case we would be supressing the urge to do something, in the second case the urge itself ceases to exist. In the first case physical and mental supression usually results in a relapse at a later stage and the recurrance of the habit on a higher scale than usual.
Believe me, the road to abstinence has not been easy. I was one of those guys who, when asked when I would quit the weed for good, was fond of quoting Mark Twain who was supposed to have quipped to the same question, "what is so difficult about quitting smoking? I have done it hundreds of times"! And I HAVE done it hundreds of times, literally. I kept quitting and it got me right back before even two days were past! But NOW it's two years and i'm still off! The difference between those attempts and now is that previously I was trying to force the issue rather than sublimate the urge and force never works in such cases.
Suppression also has the attendant problems of having to cope with all the side effects like headaches, cravings etc., all of which were noticeably absent in my case. Not once since I quit everything have I ever felt even a teeny-weeny urge to again indulge myself. In fact cigarette smoke and the sight of meat actually nauseates me these days. I used to just love eggs but can now actually smell an omlette cooking wihtout the slightest urge to have one! Lucky me, huh?!!
Now for the interesting part! For the past six months I have been able to even enjoy sex without ejaculation! The funny part is that my wife dosn't have a clue about what is actually going on! She would freak, I think, if she did, since she views my practices partly with disdain and partly with disbelief! Technically I should have been climbing the walls by now, or having wet dreams, but the reality is far removed from THAT scenario! I actualy feel invigorated rather than frustrated and drained. The flop side is that you have to tolerate being always in a semi-arousd state, but hey, You don't get something for nothing, right? 
Wow! You actually like people who have a lot of anger? THAT is also a first for me!  But I can understand what you mean. Angry people usually carry their passion to other fields too and i am a bit like that myself. Whatever I do I believe in doing it with passion and a single minded focus and dedication, irrespective of whether it is my work or someone else's work. The funny part is that all the sound and fury of my rages are reserved for the home and hearth!!! I don't think I have lost my temper or even shown my displeasure outside the family for the past 20 years and that's a long time!
Anyway it was lovely to hear from you. I hope to keep in regular touch on this forum also.
May the Universal Energy bless you! May Divine Bliss be yours!
Love,
Venu
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2006 : 11:09:03 AM
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Hi again, Venu. When I commented on the amazing control of your vices, I admit that I was being somewhat cynical. Slimey, I know, and I apologize for that. It sounds like your past vices and indulgences have truly vanished, especially if some of them now make you squeamish. Clarification: It's not so much that I like angry people; I admire them. I like the raw and undiluted energy behind anger. Except, of course, when it's turned on me.  I'm working at being more forthright in my anger, like Shweta, who (rightly) yelled at her beloved dog. But yes, as you say, angry people are usually passionate people and therein lies the draw. If someone is just angry and nothing else, well, that's not so interesting.
Question: Why is it that those we love the most are privy to our worst explosions, while complete strangers see us only at our sacharin best?
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2006 : 1:22:09 PM
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Hi Venu,
If you are finding yourself prone to anger or irritability after meditation practices try resting for longer before you get up. So if you don't rest at all, try resting for 5 minutes after practices, if you do 5 minutes now, try 10 minutes and see what that does.
If increasing your rest time doesn't have any impact at all, then consider reducing your practice times and seeing if that has any impact.
good luck,
A |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2006 : 1:36:32 PM
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| The fact that anger arises shows that it's something deep which is being purified. You can't avoid it. |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2006 : 3:22:06 PM
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| Andrew has a good point. I've been having flashes of volcanic irritability lately, which last maybe 30 seconds, are completely unfounded, and then they're gone. I thought it was pms, but it couldn't have been, so at some point I realized it was due to the lengthening of my practices, without a corresponding length in rest time. It turns out for me that for every new practice I add to the routine, I need to add another 2 minutes or so of rest at the end. |
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avid_seeker
India
5 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2006 : 02:20:59 AM
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Yo Andrew, Anthem! You have a good point about the need for rest after our practices. I remember reading Yogani's takes on the issue and it made a lot of sense at the time, but was conveniently forgotten with the passage of time! I am glad you have reiterated the point. I'm going to try extending my rest periods and see how it goes. Meg, the words "volcanic irritability" i think best describe my bouts with my temper! As you so rightly put it, I really don't think there is anything wrong in constructive or forthright anger, but it is the aimless irritability, without any due cause, that is unsettling. 
"Question: Why is it that those we love the most are privy to our worst explosions, while complete strangers see us only at our sacharin best?"
Actually Meg, I think it's because one doesn't feel the need to be on guard with family, as opposed to strangers! I agree, that sucks, but thats human nature and something that needs to be changed first of all. It not only presupposes that family don't deserve the consideration that we give others, but also that we are not open in all our relationships. We don't flow with the Divine Energy as we should, speaking and acting from our hearts rather than our minds!
May the Universal Energy bless you! May Divine Bliss be yours!
Love,
Venu |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2006 : 10:46:13 AM
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Hi Venu,
Everyone here has given great answers, I would have told you the exact same things... esp. about the rest after your practice... very important.
I will share just one additional thing that helped me. Expression of anger is an acquired behavior. You generally pick it up from your parents or family while you were growing up.
It is not that I don't get angry any more, but I don't react as I used to.
You said you get angry and later regret it deeply.. instead of regretting it.. analyze it..
1-see how people around you react
2-think of why you reacted that way
3-Think what would happen if you did not react that way and/or was there any other way you could have reacted.
You may be amazed at what you will find.
Generally we have a preconceived notion of how things should be and if for any reason it does not work out that way.. our mind starts to look for a way to react. We have then our parents/family or our own past behavior to this situation to draw from. Just because exploding at the family has been a default reaction so far, does not mean that was the only reaction to work with. If after I have cooled down, I can think what was an alternative reaction I could have given... and next time I make an effort to use that alternate reaction.. I have just broken a pattern I knew from childhood. This may not be as satisfying as exploding.. and your mind will be all confused.. but then it is a way to unlearn an acquired pattern of behavior and learn a new one. Now, no one said it was going to be easy
Let me give an example. Some time back my husband used to be off on Fridays .. my in-laws were visiting.. and when I would come back home from work, his first statement to me used to be..."gosh! you are late.. I am waiting for my tea". Boom! something in me would explode...He is at home all day, my in-laws were at home all day.. I was working all day.. and when I come home, instead of someone offering me a cup of tea.. they would be waiting for me to come home to make them some tea. Every Friday I would get angry and keep playing the story of how unfair the situation was.... and from then on my evening.. at times the entire weekend would be ruined..
One day, after I was over this angry phase.. I thought about the evening...
1-Who were affected by my reaction?
Truthfully.. none of the folks that it was directed towards even cared... they knew this was my pattern of behavior.. I would get angry and then get over it.. so they were almost immune to my reactions... So the only one affected by this was me.. my blood pressure was high, my head hurt, I was the one getting depressed and upset... OK! now there was something wrong with this picture.
2-Why was I reacting this way?
Since childhood, when my dad came home from work.. my mom would make him a cup of tea.. and when my mom came back from work.. and if my dad was at home.. he made tea for my mom.... so obviously.. the one who has just put in a hard day at work deserves a cup of tea.. not the one sitting at home all day...
Well, just because that was the idea I had in my head.. did it make it right???
3-What would happen if I did not react that way?
The next time, I came home and even before I said hello.. I started off the tea... Instead of making a story in my head of how unfair it was that I come home from work and I have to make the tea.. I just made the tea.. and was done with it.. and the rest of the evening went off really smooth.. hummmmm...
I still don't think it is fair (maybe some day I will get over this pattern of thinking too).. but my reaction to the situation is different...
You generally show your anger when you know you can get away with it... that is why you bring it out on the people you love... because you know (generally) they will accept it and not punish you for it. At work, I hate documentation.. I get so angry when my boss comes and says.. hey great enhancement.. make sure you update the documentation.. ummmm.. hate it.. but you will never find me exploding at him.. because I could lose my job. I hate it when a client tells me, "finish this off before you leave today" (esp. those NY guys!!!)... I may grumble in my mind.. but I am not going to give him a piece of my mind, since that is not done. However these days.. I make sure I accept it and let that frustration dissolve before I go home, so I don't bring it out on the kids at home.
Phew!!! that was long...
PS: Venu you may like this thread http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=968 |
Edited by - Shanti on Jul 28 2006 12:53:42 PM |
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Ever Doubt your Inner Silence?
