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Govinda
USA
176 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 28 2013 : 1:48:20 PM
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Namaste All,
We human beings have evolved to question the nature of not only our own existence, but the very nature of existence itself. While this is generated by any number of reasons, there exists one primary and pivotal one in my own mind, one which continuously re-emerges to challenge everything I believe is real... and everything I have a deep faith in, despite having no tangible grasp of what is beyond the limits of any form or substantial manifestation (for who can hold the limitlessness of God, in the gross compression of any human conception?).
This initiates an earnest quest of sorts, a journey towards spiritual awakening and an active pursuit of those states of mind which facilitate a deeper understanding of what is really happening, both within oneself and throughout the macroscopic cosmos at large, of which we are symmetrical parts therein.
This, however, brings the human soul to that cross-road from which we as individuals are faced with the daunting task of subjugating the Ego-self and silencing the mental parameters we have been mesmerized to view existence through. To remove the lens of our sentient vision, reverse our learned-behavior and free ourselves of circular logic. This allows for a new beginning of sorts, an opening of new windows of perception, revealing new vistas containing fresh insights and epiphanies... a re-birthing, as it were.
Why so? By what criterion do I make such an assessment? I sincerely feel that unless the mind ceases to spin-out familiar thought patterns and still chooses to remain within a fixed repetition in modality, habitually bent on labeling experiences in a definitively quantifiable manner, there can be little realization of That which is beyond being perceived from a subject-object duality of interplay. How's that for a run-on sentence? 
Essentially, it's like trying to view the Absolute from a relative stance. Like trying to understanding the Eternal from the conditioning of an entity existent within the time-space-continuum, reliant upon the dichotomy of subject and object, image and reflection, self and other... as well as on the interplay of cause and effect. It's like reaching for Infinity from a finite point of view. Or even attempting to perceive the insubstantial from a substantial perspective, accustomed to cognizing data with the 5 physical senses, the intellect and one's own intuition.
Thus, we are attempting to touch the Immortal reality, masquerading as sentient mortality and shift attention beyond the limitations of transient, material existence. Meanwhile, all is ineffably One and there is harmony abounding in perfect balance (with or without our even noticing it). 
In other words... most of what we conceive of through philosophy, contemplation and religious analysis, cannot create that miraculous shift in conscious-awareness, that is wholly necessary for us to enter into the direct knowledge of That which removes all barriers and dissolves any membranes of division or separation. So, how is it that we can even sense such a Divine reality, expressing itself throughout the multiverse of forms and substances? I believe that it is Grace and as such, a tremendously Sacred gift from God.
The embrace of awakening to the immanent presence of That which dispels the myriad dreamscapes held by the countless tributaries of human minds, flowing along within the current of the Tao, the Oceanic presence of Brahman, one with the pulse of the universal vibration... is paramount for releasing our attachments and limitations. Attunement to the sound current of the Sacred Word and becoming transfixed within the effulgence of the Light of conscious-awareness, are the cobblestones of my pathway. And they facilitate the passageway into the higher spheres of being. 
I repeatedly use "That" as a substitute for Brahman/Ishvara/YHWH/Tao/God/Allah/Great Spirit/Atman/Omniself/etc... but regardless of perception or preferences and in the truest sense of reality, That is also This.
Within all of this movement, lies the transcendental stillness inherent within the ceaseless movement and endless changes, which things appear to undergo. All of the aspects and attributes of this force and fulcrum of being, rhythmically appears and disappears, forevermore, as they arrive and depart from the stage of existential being witnessed by it's own creation, to merge back into That which is beyond words or limited to any human description.
I have found that when I sincerely submit myself to ego-death and willingly suspend my mortal passions, my thinking mind and even the rapture of devotion to Deity... from completely dominating my internal focus, something wonderful happens. an activation occurs which continually shatters the old mold, the mirage of misunderstanding. This occurs spontaneously and naturally when we allow Grace to descend as we rise to meet it, so beatifically dawning before the witness within and shared with all abounding in universal splendor. 
The revelation of the point of the Bindu shines with blinding intensity and so, washes away the ordinary parameters, and reveals the Omnipresence of the Lord of Lords. Yet, we are the same as That and always have been God, always and forevermore. A remembrance occurs and the soul unites with it's own cause. Thus the dawning of the Omniself arises to liberate the Jiva from the ignorance of the mirages perceived, the karmic cycles undergone and the samskaras dreamed by the "normal" self (Jivatman or Ego-self).
The Omnipotence of That, shines in resplendent radiance... all we need do is see it and be absorbed within it's vortex and epicenter. Such is the sublime nature of Yoga. We recall always having been one with the Godhead, our truest Self and core reality. We always will be, always shall return to conscious-awareness of such spiritual Gnosis.
When the Atmaic force blooms exponentially, revealing the Omniscient as the all-in-all, it coincides with states of deepest meditation, activation of the higher centers and the gradual shift in one's focused intent. And so, we segue from the outer realms to the inner realms, themselves aspects of symmetrically polarized, mirrored-reflections, in seeming opposition to one another (while in truth, they are the same in their quintessence). Tat Tvam Asi
In short, I am curious how all of you fine folks see existence and the nature of the paradigms we seekers engage, earnestly moving deeper into the mystery and majesty of That. Is immersion within the quintessence of conscious-awareness a case of surrendering to the emptiness of the Void or is it opening up to the fullness of the transcendental Spiritus,the very Breath of God within all expressions and manifestations of existential being?
Of utmost importance, I implore you to be mindful that this is not an invitation to a debate, not a challenge for the intellect nor a riddle, let alone a prerequisite for blind faith in something which we have no knowledge or feeling of, personally. What this thread ideally is about, is a collective tapestry of ideas and unique threads of human inquiry and strings of devotion. An interplay between family members and fellow aspirants towards enlightenment, harmony and wisdom. A veritable patch-work quilt of soul frequencies, weaving something quite beautiful and inspiring to share together. 
Please feel free and wholly encouraged to contribute anything which inspires or excites your soul's greatest aspiration. Do share the jewel of your vision, in relation to your spiritual journey of awakening. Be it from a perspective of jnana, bhakti, Zen in it's content or one based on direct Yogic shifts in spiritual experience and incremental internal cultivation.
What do we make of this life we experience? How do we crystallize an awareness of this present moment, more and more in tune with the magnificence of the here & now? What approaches or deconstruction has aided the most for you? What do you guys meditate upon or abstain from allowing mind to interfere, to refrain from giving form or name to? The name is Sacred, so I am in love with it's intoxicating repetition.
As kami recently posted, so simply and so poignantly (and I paraphrase), this universal existence is an aspect and an appearance of God's Grace. Bubbles of conscious-awareness had by Brahman, dreaming of being Ishvara, thus expressed as Nataraja's Sacred Dance. God's Lila manifesting a triune as Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva... creating, preserving and destroying all this reality (dreaming of being you and I and everyone else existent, as well as those yet to be existent). Simply beautiful.
What has it meant to you all, contacting the Divine and learning it is who you really are, the reality of God behind the appearances of the illusion of oneself? The notion of Anatman. That we are not the body, not the mind, not even the Atman residing within the dreamscape... we are symbiotic with the whole, interlocking thought-forms. Again, and above all else, "That is also This". All is irrefutably One singular force, expressed through aspects and attributes as the Divine Web of the Unified Field of Being.
Or is your way something quite unique from all of my wordy descriptions? And if so, can you share some of your own light and explain something feasibly explainable about your own personal cosmology and the methods of your Sadhana (or non-methods, for that matter)? Please forgive my overblown verbosity.
May you all enjoy the sheer joy of being and endlessly becoming. We are truly, each of us, an eternity in the making. My sincere thanks to each of you for taking the time to read this outpouring of words and I welcome you to share something beautiful or even abruptly honest (as long as kindness is included in the delivery of said candor). Thanx in advance!
Hari Om Tat Sat
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Edited by - Govinda on Aug 29 2013 01:27:17 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2013 : 2:17:22 PM
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Hi Govinda,
Here is a thread I started a couple of years ago on the same topic: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=9927
At this point I would say that things went from a living experience of emptiness (the whole "I am not this, I am not this..." thing) to a living experience of being absolutely everything (I am this, I am that, I am everything) to a point where the question(s) don't even arise anymore. There is a "cellular knowing" that who I am is the "unnameable absolute" that is enjoying (and not enjoying sometimes still too  ) the pleasure and pain that results from a normal human experience. It seems life has brought me full circle, right back to myself in the here and now.
Love,
Carson  |
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Govinda
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2013 : 3:01:27 PM
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Wow, what an uncanny coincidence, CarsonZi,
Thank you for sharing. You rock!!!
And I really appreciate your previous thread. I hadn't caught that one yet. Great minds think and un-think alike... or what?
Namaste, my brother! |
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Govinda
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2013 : 4:29:31 PM
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A truly beautiful quote from the great sage, Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj:
"I find that somehow, by shifting the focus of attention, I become the very thing I look at, and experience the kind of consciousness it has; I become the inner witness of the thing. I call this capacity of entering other focal points of consciousness, love; you may give it any name you like.
Love says "I am everything". Wisdom says "I am nothing". Between the two, my life flows. Since at any point of time and space I can be both the subject and the object of experience, I express it by saying that I am both, and neither, and beyond both."
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Aug 29 2013 : 09:33:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Govinda
A truly beautiful quote from the great sage, Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj:
"I find that somehow, by shifting the focus of attention, I become the very thing I look at, and experience the kind of consciousness it has; I become the inner witness of the thing. I call this capacity of entering other focal points of consciousness, love; you may give it any name you like.
Love says "I am everything". Wisdom says "I am nothing". Between the two, my life flows. Since at any point of time and space I can be both the subject and the object of experience, I express it by saying that I am both, and neither, and beyond both."
Hi Govinda,
A beautiful description of Oneness.
Thank you. |
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Aug 29 2013 : 1:04:58 PM
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Dear Govinda,
Thank you for your post that is rich with wisdom and sweetness.
All descriptions of states and mystical experiences are limited by words.. And so it will be with what I will try to describe..
Spiritual seeking is tricky business! As we work into more and more subtle experiences, it is easy to get "hooked" into all of them. In fact, pretty much all of us do. When duality is clear-cut, as in gross experiences of bhakti, jnana or any other path, it is easier to recognize them and learn to let go. However, one of the biggest traps is to become identified as the "knower". Many will confidently state, "I know what I know because I have direct experience of this or that" or statements like "I know I exist" (or any variations of such). As soon as we think we know, further openings are hindered. So is the stance of "I know nothing", as there is a subtle trap of being the knower who knows they don't know. I have been simmering in this for the last few weeks, and happened to read a quote from Ramana Maharshi today - "Cease to be a knower, then there is perfection." No coincidences.
While my own path of seeking entails intense sadhana and being aware of mystical experiences, there has been some sort of shift over the last month, and that is of ordinary-ness. Even in the experience of duality of ordinary life, there is "giving in" or allowing of it all, which was being rejected at a very subtle level. No need for great mystical supra-normal experiences - in fact, the most boring and mundane is extraordinary in it's simplicity. Even Krishna Janmashtami was extraordinarily ordinary. There is a perfect, "full" stillness that is under and pervading all movement - I'm that stillness and also the movement. The mind can work or be still, there can be energetic shifts or bodily awareness, an astral or "regular" visitor, intense practices or not - none of it makes any difference to this. It seems there is some sort of withdrawal within, but also a simultaneous reaching without. The marvelous play of the trinity of creator, sustainer and destroyer seems beautifully evident. Something deeper to them remains untouched, oblivious to them, joyful for no reason. It seems I'm that too..
Much love to you, wise and eloquent Govinda. |
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Govinda
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2013 : 1:58:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kami
However, one of the biggest traps is to become identified as the "knower". Many will confidently state, "I know what I know because I have direct experience of this or that" or statements like "I know I exist" (or any variations of such). As soon as we think we know, further openings are hindered. So is the stance of "I know nothing", as there is a subtle trap of being the knower who knows they don't know. I have been simmering in this for the last few weeks, and happened to read a quote from Ramana Maharshi today - "Cease to be a knower, then there is perfection." No coincidences.
Thank you for sharing such a profound insight! I agree completely with your understanding. And I too, share an intense love for Sri Ramana Maharshi and his wisdom. His adamant declaration of following the I-thought back to it's origins has been one of the pivotal aspects of my Sadhana. Often, I find myself merging into a trance-state wherein I feel so interconnected to the formless radiance of Brahman/God/Great Spirit... that I loose my sense of even being the observer of this miraculous epiphany. The mind stops measuring or labeling any subjective perception, and so, the identification of being witness to anything in particular is evaporated, like a drop of rain returning to the Oceanic Omniscience of God. Then, there is no separation betwixt the single droplet and the immensity of the Divine Sea.
I cannot feasibly say what actually remains to be perceived, as this is impossible without becoming separate from the presence... but upon re-entry to my ordinary individual conscious-awareness, there exists a remembrance of something quite ineffable, most all-pervasive and thoroughly free from any limitation or quantifiable definition. And I honestly don't know what it is, at least not in the subject-object sense of knowing or not knowing... for who can say anything about such perfection, without returning to the identification of being witness to said perfection?
As you say in your own unique way, it is beyond any membrane of duality and as you relate so sweetly, to embrace it for even a single moment, removes the lines which separate this from that... and knowledge from the knower of said knowledge. I call this a "whiteout experience". As you clearly express, it is beyond the confines of any human language.
quote:
While my own path of seeking entails intense sadhana and being aware of mystical experiences, there has been some sort of shift over the last month, and that is of ordinary-ness. Even in the experience of duality of ordinary life, there is "giving in" or allowing of it all, which was being rejected at a very subtle level. No need for great mystical supra-normal experiences - in fact, the most boring and mundane is extraordinary in it's simplicity.
Nice, it seems you are quite blessed to experience the perfect Unity in the diversity, the Supreme Godhead immanent in the routine and ordinary little aspects of living within the human paradigm. It would seem that then, in such a light, even the most basic of human experiences are truly mystical in their quintessence.
quote:
Even Krishna Janmashtami was extraordinarily ordinary. There is a perfect, "full" stillness that is under and pervading all movement - I'm that stillness and also the movement. The mind can work or be still, there can be energetic shifts or bodily awareness, an astral or "regular" visitor, intense practices or not - none of it makes any difference to this. It seems there is some sort of withdrawal within, but also a simultaneous reaching without.
Very inspiring. This is what all Yogas aim towards, as well as all other spiritual paths. And while I am beginning to clearly attune my conscious-awareness to the state beyond any dichotomy or differentiation... I am simultaneously unable to maintain any grasp of being the observer.
I wonder sometimes if this is what Sri Gautama Buddha meant by Anatman? Not necessarily a total negation of any knowledge of conscious-awareness, or focal point of association in the direct interaction of our attention with the Oneness... but rather, the eternal pause between being and non-being, rhythmically manifesting and unmanifesting. The counterpoint of the indwelling witness, formed as the indwelling Atman perceiving indivisibility vanishes as an outside aspect, and so, being the all-in-all without needing to watch itself experiencing itself.
By our devout surrendering, even this predisposition to watching the ever-changing Lila of God, becomes impossible. All traces of ego identification reach a sublime stillness, whereby neither self nor non-self continue to pulse in juxtaposition.
In such an emptiness there is the presence of infinite fullness, and in such an outpouring expanse of fullness, shines a silence more powerful than the I-thought. No form, wholly ineffable but ever-present, always and forevermore free of limitation. Serenity flows from this point of the Sacred Bindu, like honey glistening in the sunshine. From whence it came and whosoever is drinking in this blissful Amitra... remains quietly still and awakens to transcend all dichotomy. Being equally unformed, yet wholly unconstrained within all forms arising and subsiding.
When I, whoever this "I-thought" really is, returns to having individual preferences, I admittedly fully rejoice in this simple ecstasy. Nataraja's Sacred Dance ensuing! Even as the song of Sri Sri Krishna's enigmatic flute is heard from within this small personal vessel, ringing within the chorus of all other sounds, weaving collectively this symphony of creation. It's beatific melody is issuing forth in Celestial Song, echoing from the Godhead beyond any fixed definition and is equally reflected from the very breath rushing in and out of this tiny mortal vessel, myself but a reborn witness to the miracle of simply being existent within the Web of the Unified Field of Being. Like unto an intricate tapestry, our simple day-to-day experiences weave together as a remarkable whole. Such is the nature of love blooming endlessly from within.
Om Shanti
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2013 : 12:30:05 AM
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Mr X abides in EMPTINESS.
X sits in meditation and sees emptiness of all dharmas. He sees anger, hatred, fear, love, ego etc. in his body and understands with WISDOM that they are all empty in nature.(because he has tasted emptiness in his life)
This meditation creates empty space in his body. The whole existence surrounding him is full of anger, hate, fear, love, ego etc. These rush into the emptiness in his body as a natural process. His ego does not come in action as well.
This is INFLOW from surroundigs. This is compassion.
Mr. x is again full of anger.......etc. Again he sits in meditation.
Mr. x is a tiny fellow in the sea of existence where billions and billions of sentients live. The process goes on and on.
INFLOW GO ON AND ON.
Mr. x is growing to bhoddisattva. He is invisible to surroundings. Surrounding see all dharma in him. They see anger......etc. as they see in others because of these INFLOWS. They do not see any difference for quite a long time in him.
And then some one notices. Mr. x is not aging, his skin is glowing, all good things of life are coming to him on their own.
He is all peaceful. He is always healthy. He is cheerful always. He acts as if he is the most USEFUL person for his surroundings.
( one part of story ends)
Mr. Y is in LOVE with his God. Y remembers HIM. Y worships HIM.
Y is always in OUTFLOW of LOVE with his God. This creates bliss and glow of light in his meditation. Bliss wants more bliss. Ego puts up more effort in Love towards his God. The process goes on increasing.
OUTFLOWS go on increasing from his body.
At one stage only his past bad karmas remain. Diseases start appearing. He does not suffer because bliss overpowers sufferings of his diseases. He is also in peace. And one day Y disappears.
This Y has failed in his mission given by SUPREME GOD/ADVAIT/EMPTINESS/ATMA/ ETC. But he has been indirectly useful. His mission is now carried on by Y's god of love and Y's integration with his god of Love helped.
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2013 : 08:35:12 AM
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Interesting stories. Thank you.
Perhaps there is a fundamental misunderstanding about love, as also discussed here. Some would take love and put it into various compartments - "romantic", "motherly", "Bhakti", whatnot, essentially striving to rid themselves of "romantic" for the "motherly". All such classifications come from the ego. And love is merely a concept for these folks, an idea of what love should look like as a lover or mother, etcetera. The gopis of Vrindavan had "romantic" love for Krishna. They are, to this day, considered the epitome of love and bhakti. Compared to them, Yashoda (Krishna's mother) is mentioned considerably less frequently for her "motherly" love. Jesus is said to have had a partner - Mary Magdalene. Can that be classified as "romantic" or "motherly" (or "fatherly")? Is all "motherly" love pure? Romantic love is not to be confused with lust. Love is giving freely, with no grasping, wanting to own or expecting in return, while lust is about ownership of the other. One need only look around and see how many parents grasp and attempt to own their children, bribing/threatening/blackmailing for "love" in return. When love flows freely outside of the realm of concepts and boxes, with the ego out of the way, it takes the shape of appropriate expression. Yogani calls this divine and outpouring. Divine hardly means "not romantic".
Bhakti, love for God, has no room for the ego. If the ego comes in, it is not love or Bhakti at all. Thus, in the story of "Y" above, bhakti could not have worked. On the spiritual path, there are innumerable examples of those who became that One through Bhakti - by total surrender of the ego. And innumerable examples of those who meditated on emptiness and didn't get there. True Bhakti is true love - surrendering totally to become one with the other. In this case, it can be considered an outward flow because the higher ideal is initially seen to be "out there", and with continued surrender, gradually seen to be none other than oneself. The end result of all paths is the same, each approaching misidentification with the ego in different ways. There is no path or faith that is superior to another.
Bhakti isn't blind faith to a deity. Such a concept is gross misunderstanding. Bhakti is that which propels us towards knowing and becoming that One, that is, the fuel/desire. There is not a single "emptiness" seeker who hasn't been propelled by this. Just because they don't express it or invest emotionally in their chosen ideal does not mean there is no Bhakti. Bhakti (love) is the fuel of creation. Nothing can move without it.
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2013 : 10:48:48 PM
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Dear Govinda,
Like you, I deeply love Ramana and Nisargadatta. However, I've recently (past few days) come to distinguish the deep truths in their words from the "opinions and positions" they took on things.
My life moves between several states and realizations.
1. I am everything. In this state, all sense perceptions become transparent, and it is as though I, timeless, formless awareness, the radiant sun which illumines the world-appearance, have donned the garment known as the world. All sense perceptions are transparent and illumined by That which I Am. This state doesn't usually happen for long here, an hour, or a few minutes.
2. No self. In this state I see how all phenomena - sensations, thoughts, feelings - are empty of self. There's nobody here and I find it highly curious when the body speaks or there is a face in the mirror. Whose face is that? I am not here. There is no I.
3. I am awareness. This is most common to my life, since it's not a state, it's a knowledge based realization which has practically permanently shifted my identity out of form. In this state I recognize myself as the formless background in which experience arises and disappears. Although the world-appearance maintains the appearance of illusory separation, the body-mind does not engage in acting, thinking and feeling from a perspective of separation because it knows it is not a separate self.
4. I am the deeply personal Josh. With my girlfriend, Who am I? I'm certainly not just Awareness. No. I'm the person she knows, and loves. There's not a disharmonious identification with that person which is separative: there's a loving, deeply sensitive and inclusive identification with that person. I don't love her in a non-dual way, as I would a tree or a rock or someone I don't know - I love her in a way that is deeply personal, yet free from the heaviness of grasping/neediness that comes from not knowing one's true nature.
5. Vastness of being. Sometimes I'm a vast ocean of pure being, transcendent beyond imagination, that within which universes arise and disappear. This happened only once.
I once deeply desired this complete ego-death type of experience which seems to have been embodied by Ramana and Nisargadatta. In fact, there are people who have had extremely stark ego-death experiences, seeing everything as an empty play, dead to the world, not concerned about the petty problems of its ignorance and illusory forms.
I can't say I feel that now. Do I love the process of an identity which continually shifts to deeper and deeper levels of formlessness? Yes. Do I love the freedom from fear that arises on knowing this body-mind appearance is merely a temporary appearance, a vibration of energy, appearing in that limitlessness that I Am? Yes. Do I love the constantly deeper dissolution of suffering, and deeply peaceful, ecstatic and blissful states that arise as identified awareness gets stripped away? Yes.
However, do I also love to be deeply personal and intimate? Yes. Are these things opposed in any way? No I don't think so. One can simultaneously be nothing, everything, and highly personal.
Our Lord is that openness so loving, so inclusive, that "no" is not in his vocabulary. It's only people who make distinctions, assuming an ego-death is desirable, or this or that teaching or realization is better or truer than another.
But what we experience - it's but a play in awareness, consciousness, and in fact there are perhaps unmanifest levels that are entirely beyond words altogether. Why not make it the most interesting and incredible play one possibly can? There's no time, no space, and none of it actually ever happens anyway. But creativity is divine! The nature of all manifest experience! Scriptures or Gurus may say complete ego-death is the desirable state. But what about one's own soul, one's own intuition? Is her call from within so limited that it can be expressed in two words: Ego-death? Is God's wonderful Maya creation really such an unpleasant delusion that the best thing is to just die to it? Are there any valid goals, states or end-points, some better than others, or are these all just human conceptions and comparisons? Who should advise us on such matters? One's own soul or an established authority?
From the soul, I just find her desire is total freedom, not a freedom limited to one conceptual end point. To expand, expand, expand, include, include and include. To love, love and love harder and more. To take risks, fearlessly, if needs be. Yes: awaken from duality and wrong identification. Yes: be deeply personal and intimate. Yes: be a little worldly sometimes. Yes: be ascetic and inwardly renunciant, because certainly there are a great deal of desires which lead to wrong-headed behavior and suffering. She wants to be free to be simultaneously individual, universal, relative, absolute, impersonal, detached whilst compassionate, transcendent, immanent... and I find that in my life all these things are manifest and possible. I don't buy into a dry little version of the truth where one hides out somewhere where nothing matters anymore. I do buy into freedom from false identification with form.
The truth is inclusive, and free of polarities and opposites, and the conceptual methodology which we use to define it. We just have to develop a heart and intuition which can hear the deepest truth from within, and then have the courage to follow it - though it may well taken us away from the paths trodden by those before us, who we've considered authorities.
Spiritual awakening is the reason I am here, my one true love in life. Complete and total freedom is my soul's urge. Anything that limits her in the wrong way we shall strike out with discrimination and inquiry. All of life faced courageously and embraced. Seeking the highest and most loving integrity of her expression at all times.
Only God knows the plans, but given that him and we are not two, perhaps each apparent individual is playing a small role in defining that plan, spontaneously creating their role in the world appearance as they go along? |
Edited by - mr_anderson on Sep 01 2013 12:01:05 AM |
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Govinda
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2013 : 09:18:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZiAt this point I would say that things went from a living experience of emptiness (the whole "I am not this, I am not this..." thing) to a living experience of being absolutely everything (I am this, I am that, I am everything) to a point where the question(s) don't even arise anymore. There is a "cellular knowing" that who I am is the "unnameable absolute" that is enjoying (and not enjoying sometimes still too ) the pleasure and pain that results from a normal human experience. It seems life has brought me full circle, right back to myself in the here and now.
I share your experience and would add that I seem to perceive both of these aspect, often simultaneously and sometimes separately, depending on the moment-to-moment changes in my consciousness, the windowsill the I-thought views the ever-changing panorama of this existential paradigm. And like yourself, it seems to have become second nature, or rather, like the understanding has soaked-in totally and it need only be brought to focused attention, to be present conceptually.
As you oh so poetically put it, this brings us each right to here into this point of eternal nowness, the full bloom of the Bindu. We exist here alone and only in the fulcrum of this present moment, passing before our seemingly separate degrees of awareness, do we truly exist at all. and the emptiness is always right here, as well. Much like breathing, we inhale into existence and receive the entirety of the Omniverse at large, we exhale and release all attention upon forms and the various membranes of this and that, dissipating back into the insubstantial quietude, from whence it arose. So, as many wise souls here have expressed, its' never, never, never as simple as just becoming aware of the emptiness of the silent Void or the fullness of the effulgent spirit ringing out like a singing bowl... it is both and yet, it is neither.
Some of the loftiest things will always remain beyond the scope of human words and conceived ideas, otherwise we become so fixated upon our dogmatic beliefs... we are locked into vast systems of thought and perennial philosophies. Thank God for that! I dig the sheer mystery of the Divine interplay of spontaneously becoming and intuitively unfolding, without becoming imprisoned by any sectarian false certainties. Much love to you, my brother.
quote:
Originally posted by rijuMr X abides in EMPTINESS.
X sits in meditation and sees emptiness of all dharmas. He sees anger, hatred, fear, love, ego etc. in his body and understands with WISDOM that they are all empty in nature.(because he has tasted emptiness in his life)
This meditation creates empty space in his body. The whole existence surrounding him is full of anger, hate, fear, love, ego etc. These rush into the emptiness in his body as a natural process. His ego does not come in action as well.
This is INFLOW from surroundigs. This is compassion.
Mr. x is again full of anger.......etc. Again he sits in meditation.
Mr. x is a tiny fellow in the sea of existence where billions and billions of sentients live. The process goes on and on.
INFLOW GO ON AND ON.
Mr. x is growing to bhoddisattva. He is invisible to surroundings. Surrounding see all dharma in him. They see anger......etc. as they see in others because of these INFLOWS. They do not see any difference for quite a long time in him.
And then some one notices. Mr. x is not aging, his skin is glowing, all good things of life are coming to him on their own.
He is all peaceful. He is always healthy. He is cheerful always. He acts as if he is the most USEFUL person for his surroundings.
( one part of story ends)
Mr. Y is in LOVE with his God. Y remembers HIM. Y worships HIM.
Y is always in OUTFLOW of LOVE with his God. This creates bliss and glow of light in his meditation. Bliss wants more bliss. Ego puts up more effort in Love towards his God. The process goes on increasing.
OUTFLOWS go on increasing from his body.
At one stage only his past bad karmas remain. Diseases start appearing. He does not suffer because bliss overpowers sufferings of his diseases. He is also in peace. And one day Y disappears.
This Y has failed in his mission given by SUPREME GOD/ADVAIT/EMPTINESS/ATMA/ ETC. But he has been indirectly useful. His mission is now carried on by Y's god of love and Y's integration with his god of Love helped.
Good day riju, while I am glad that you removed (or a moderator removed) the increasingly sectarian statements you are adding to your replies, the entire reply needn't have been totally removed. I was going to respond to your comments about "LOVE and COMPASSION", as well. I feel there is no true juxtaposition between these aspects of mind-heart-being. As with the symbiotic nature of emptiness and fullness, the same applies to love and compassion. For myself, they cannot be separated. Spiritual awakening is all about internal and external balance and harmony. Thus, it's never this OR that, it's this AND that. The Tao is Ying and Yang, not Yin or Yang. X and Y exist together in each soul frequency, even as they exist in our chromosomes. Duality in any guise is a liar and a trickster. Each sentient expression of life shares far more than they do not, as we are each aspects of the one thing/non-thing.
I must suggest that we are each wisest, not to become too obsessed with dividing our Dharma from another's Dharma, for we are but a singular entity in our deepest level. The Jivas journey of awakening is a dance... and all the dancers are dreaming their position in this blooming expression and the impermanence eventually absorbs all differentiation back into itself, forevermore an unbroken flow of endless changes. Peace, serenity and wisdom know no religious affiliation... they are shared by all who live and eventually die. All is One.
Here, we do seem to disagree in specificity and content... but I do see your stance and also, do appreciate and honor your commitment. And I'd like to add that I've never met a Hindu who didn't believe that Sri Gautama Buddha was an Avatar and an intricate part of Hinduism, as a whole. Likewise, I've rarely met a Buddhist who didn't think that Hindus were "failing" in their realization. Why is this? No matter what path we take, the ultimate destination is right here & now, awake in this eternally present moment. Is it not better to see the parallels, instead of highlighting the vast differentiations?
Thank you for sharing your ideas and interpretations of how you perceive emptiness and fullness, inflow and outflow, love and compassion. Be well and shine brightly! |
Edited by - Govinda on Sep 03 2013 08:52:18 AM |
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Govinda
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2013 : 10:55:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_anderson
1. I am everything. In this state, all sense perceptions become transparent, and it is as though I, timeless, formless awareness, the radiant sun which illumines the world-appearance, have donned the garment known as the world. All sense perceptions are transparent and illumined by That which I Am. This state doesn't usually happen for long here, an hour, or a few minutes.
2. No self. In this state I see how all phenomena - sensations, thoughts, feelings - are empty of self. There's nobody here and I find it highly curious when the body speaks or there is a face in the mirror. Whose face is that? I am not here. There is no I.
3. I am awareness. This is most common to my life, since it's not a state, it's a knowledge based realization which has practically permanently shifted my identity out of form. In this state I recognize myself as the formless background in which experience arises and disappears. Although the world-appearance maintains the appearance of illusory separation, the body-mind does not engage in acting, thinking and feeling from a perspective of separation because it knows it is not a separate self.
4. I am the deeply personal Josh. With my girlfriend, Who am I? I'm certainly not just Awareness. No. I'm the person she knows, and loves. There's not a disharmonious identification with that person which is separative: there's a loving, deeply sensitive and inclusive identification with that person. I don't love her in a non-dual way, as I would a tree or a rock or someone I don't know - I love her in a way that is deeply personal, yet free from the heaviness of grasping/neediness that comes from not knowing one's true nature.
5. Vastness of being. Sometimes I'm a vast ocean of pure being, transcendent beyond imagination, that within which universes arise and disappear. This happened only once.
Amazing and you really nailed it, succinctly! I share your views to a great degree and relate to your reinitialization. I also do see the entire phenomenon of human incarnation, as a triune phenomenon. Ego-self, Omniself and Zero-self. Each concentric ring within the others, is united by the same force which initiated them.
quote:
I once deeply desired this complete ego-death type of experience which seems to have been embodied by Ramana and Nisargadatta. In fact, there are people who have had extremely stark ego-death experiences, seeing everything as an empty play, dead to the world, not concerned about the petty problems of its ignorance and illusory forms. I can't say I feel that now.
I can't honestly say that I've ever actually desired it... I just found myself increasingly aware of it's immediacy in my mind. But it's a heavy burden to consequence to the ordinary ego and this s an issue for the indwelling self as well as the external self. Something has to give and the individuated soul must choose paradigms.
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However, do I also love to be deeply personal and intimate? Yes. Are these things opposed in any way? No I don't think so. One can simultaneously be nothing, everything, and highly personal.
Our Lord is that openness so loving, so inclusive, that "no" is not in his vocabulary. It's only people who make distinctions, assuming an ego-death is desirable, or this or that teaching or realization is better or truer than another.
Yep, so many of the expressions we convey about the Divine sphere inter-phased with human awareness, are are wholly affirmative. Positive vibrations can only open doors and clarify our intent.
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But what we experience - it's but a play in awareness, consciousness, and in fact there are perhaps unmanifest levels that are entirely beyond words altogether. Why not make it the most interesting and incredible play one possibly can? There's no time, no space, and none of it actually ever happens anyway. But creativity is divine! The nature of all manifest experience! Scriptures or Gurus may say complete ego-death is the desirable state. But what about one's own soul, one's own intuition? Is her call from within so limited that it can be expressed in two words: Ego-death?
I have to agree with much of his assessment, as "ego-death" implies a total completion of an experiential life cycle, whereas, in spiritual terms, it is more a case of deep pauses in rhythmic swings in one's self-orientation. A shift into subjective stasis, whereby when we return to the individual self view and seize the opportunity to actively transform the perceptual orientation therein, as viewed by the internal witness keeping vigilant watch... we carve new horizons lines through focused intent and a crystallized belief system.
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Is God's wonderful Maya creation really such an unpleasant delusion that the best thing is to just die to it? Are there any valid goals, states or end-points, some better than others, or are these all just human conceptions and comparisons? Who should advise us on such matters? One's own soul or an established authority?
Yes: awaken from duality and wrong identification. Yes: be deeply personal and intimate. Yes: be a little worldly sometimes. Yes: be ascetic and inwardly renunciant, because certainly there are a great deal of desires which lead to wrong-headed behavior and suffering. She wants to be free to be simultaneously individual, universal, relative, absolute, impersonal, detached whilst compassionate, transcendent, immanent... and I find that in my life all these things are manifest and possible. I don't buy into a dry little version of the truth where one hides out somewhere where nothing matters anymore. I do buy into freedom from false identification with form.
The truth is inclusive, and free of polarities and opposites, and the conceptual methodology which we use to define it. We just have to develop a heart and intuition which can hear the deepest truth from within, and then have the courage to follow it - though it may well taken us away from the paths trodden by those before us, who we've considered authorities.
Well said. Thanks for sharing, mr_anderson! You express yourself clearly and most poignantly. Thank you for sharing so much of yourself.
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Spiritual awakening is the reason I am here, my one true love in life. Complete and total freedom is my soul's urge. Anything that limits her in the wrong way we shall strike out with discrimination and inquiry. All of life faced courageously and embraced. Seeking the highest and most loving integrity of her expression at all times.
Only God knows the plans, but given that him and we are not two, perhaps each apparent individual is playing a small role in defining that plan, spontaneously creating their role in the world appearance as they go along?
Sweetest Amitra!!!
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Edited by - Govinda on Sep 03 2013 08:48:24 AM |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2013 : 02:44:52 AM
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@ Mr. Anderson
That is so brilliantly expressed. Thank you.
Much Love
Sey |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2013 : 07:20:20 AM
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Love to you guys
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Govinda
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2013 : 08:49:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
@ Mr. Anderson
That is so brilliantly expressed. Thank you.
Much Love
Sey
Ditto, it was a pleasure to read and so very uplifting. |
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2013 : 12:04:29 AM
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Love and Devotion appear after consciousness (ego) appears.
Love and Devotion are directed outwards towards other egos.
They are pure OUTFLOWS.
Here the individual ego becomes weak or merges in higher ego towards the source in whom devotion or love is directed. It is a path of surrender, submission.
Compassion is a result of INFLOWS caused by emptiness inside the body. It is automatic, natural and increases the size of ego.
If one utilises the increased ego size due to INFLOWS towards Creativity and Wisdom, he is on the path of becoming a Creator, leader.
To me this is pure mathematics and logic and free from any confusion.
they are two opposite paths and everyone of us have a choice, either to be a leader or a subject
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2013 : 12:31:40 AM
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Cosmic energy when it came down, it became male/female cosmic energies.
In their pure form, male had a desire to be a leader and female had a desire to be loved.
An intelligent (WISE) male by directing a compassionate glance towards his female, fulfills her desire of being loved. This is a perfect HARMONY, SONG, COMPATIBILITY.
This combination is called SOUL PARTNERS. |
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Govinda
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2013 : 11:08:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by riju
Love and Devotion appear after consciousness (ego) appears.
Good day Brother riju,
Agreed, from a devotional perspective, this is so. For without ego there is no subjective orientation or I-thought to revere or even objectify the Deity (or the Buddha, for that matter). There must exist duality in consciousness to have a subject-object relationship and ensuing union, after all.
Divine rapture is a higher but still bound by it's dichotomous interrelationship within the Sacred Web and certainly, Ego-self is the witness to the dynamics of this state of mind-mirroring. Yet when Egoself surrenders to the union with said Divinity, perceptually, all duality vanishes (as if it never had existed). From my windowsill, realizing that duality is an illusion is key to making the transition form thinking about, to becoming.
Furthermore, when all that one directly perceives shows itself to be God and the infinite expression of the Godhead spontaneously manifesting paradigmatic degrees of existential being... even the act of worship dissolves into this perceptual shift in understanding the reality beyond the appearances.
But I do not agree with your declaration that Love appears post ego-crystallization and is an effect and result of the birth of the individual Jiva. I believe that Love is one of the purest aspects and attributes of Divinity and as such, surely preexisted before the division of this and that, as a core, universal principle. I maintain that true love IS compassion.
As God/Ishvara made this universe out of Godself (or as I have a penchant for the term, Omniself)... likewise, we are also composed of the very same God-stuff. Thus, we are That. So, if we love or have compassion out-flowing towards the other, it is only natural, for we are Divinity in action. We embody to the eternal rhythm of Nataraja's Cosmic Dance.
All of this multifarious universe, however infinitesimally minute to vastly grand, are symbiotic reflections of the Supreme totality. In short, God alone exists. That being said, we are one and the same within this Unified Field. Inflow, outflow, cessation of flow... it's all really the same indivisible energy (cloaked in the guise of a polarized mechanism).
One is not existent without the other, when the dreamscape of the Jiva blooms in resplendent awakening, discovering Paramatman as the sole being. Further and further beyond all distinctions, I agree that Anatman is the reality beneath all sentient incarnation. Surely, there is no Ego in Anatman... for all is God, without a second.
quote:
Love and Devotion are directed outwards towards other egos.
They are pure OUTFLOWS.
Here the individual ego becomes weak or merges in higher ego towards the source in whom devotion or love is directed. It is a path of surrender, submission.
Compassion is a result of INFLOWS caused by emptiness inside the body. It is automatic, natural and increases the size of ego.
If one utilities the increased ego size due to INFLOWS towards Creativity and Wisdom, he is on the path of becoming a Creator, leader.
To me this is pure mathematics and logic and free from any confusion.
they are two opposite paths and everyone of us have a choice, either to be a leader or a subject
But that's why we have chocolate and vanilla, right? Hehehe...lol. But seriously, just who leads and who follows? Are there really two aspects of self or anything (even no-thing at all)? IMHO, it's all God's Lila, regardless if we see it that way or not. Human ideas are assuredly, all a conceptual play with the mind, a cluster of ideas, a series of words with implied meanings, all of them enacted within the conscious-awareness of the individual perceiver.
Ego, super-ego, relative self, Jivatman... what ever we want to call this phenomenon, Ego-selves have varied experiences and hence, conceptualize with differentiated spirituous-philosophical-theological stances (on this or that).
As long as we are each and every one of us humble enough to admit that our chosen path is not at all superior to another's... we are less likely to fall it the trap of excessive egoism and the errors in perception, which result in the unpleasant trinity of humanoid delusionalism: pride, sectarianism and dogmatism. Not cool for any of us, eh?
Sigh... such one-upmanship always creates more barriers than it erases. All such mental gymnastics are inarguably impermanent and most perish in due time, when the mind is silenced. Also, such clearly defined mentality forges inflexibility. The hardening of certain belief-systems may seem inevitable but we much each be cautious of loosing spontaneity and impartiality, in the process.
For and in so doing, we often project the encrustation of a wholly fixed commitment to being "the knower"... and being a self-proclaimed authority, thus the mistake of passing judgement upon another's spiritual dreamscape. Besides, too many ideas clutter the simplicity of the clear acknowledgement of being wholly present in the here & now.
I honestly feel that such is not the true way of internal cultivation, nor a clear reflection of universal wisdom, which is applicable to any theology or spiritual path. Sectarian labels and the projection of conceptual paradigms, are some of the stickiest mirages to free oneself (from such ensnaring mind games and perceptually limiting exercises of said Ego-self).
Out of stillness and equanimity, peace and impartiality, flows love AND compassion. Even as in the in-breath and out-breath flow naturally and in seamless union. I feel that we all share the direct experience of shifting levels of conscious-awareness, which when eclipsed with the One, finds unity in all ingoing and outgoing streams of energy, even as it is with our very act of breathing.
Much respect, love AND compassion to you!
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2013 : 02:26:22 AM
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2nd name of compassion is Love above the level of consciousness. Here I agree with you and reconfirming it.
Govinda I am seeing you in deep PRAGYA/ PRAJANA level of meditation from these above letters. Continue. And stage will come when your mind, logic and Wisdom will fail to get you the answers.
then you will go into the silence. And this SILENCE will give you EXPERIENCES. Go ahead. |
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Empitness of the Void or Fullness of the Spirit?
