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apatride
New Caledonia
94 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 19 2013 : 8:38:20 PM
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Hi there 
After a few weeks of doing 10 mn SPB before DM, I've been consciously trying to restrain my breath. It feels unnatural for a moment, then it *clicks* and goes very well.
I can feel my breath is very tenuous, but "something" is moving inside me, as some kind of liquid or densified air. It comes with tingling in perineum and lower belly. My perceptions then become more spacey and it's like I'm floating.
I'd like to be sure it's okay to consciously restrain breath, as long as it remains easy and not a struggle, because it enhances a lot the depth and quality of my practice.
Also I prefer to actually feel the breath comes-and-goes, rather than visualize it, given that the feeling remains very vague and unprecise. It's much more natural and easy to me to feel rather than visualize. I can visualize but I lost it very quickly, and it's much more an effort than feeling it. Is feeling "not ideal but correct", or "not correct at all"?
Any insight welcome  |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1553 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2013 : 06:55:54 AM
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Feeling instead of seeing is just as fine. As for restrain of breath, it is recommended on the out breath to do ujjayi breathing, i.e. restriction through the throat..so that the out breath is long. Complete stopping of breath should be allowed to happen on its own.
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apatride
New Caledonia
94 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2013 : 8:07:59 PM
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Weird thing, I thought I had answered this post but seems like not...
SeySorciere, I thank you for taking some time to answer.
Though it's not breath suspension I'm doing, but breath restriction; I do ujjayi breathing on the out breath, but I restrain the breath on the in breath as well, not with ujjayi breathing but rather with a deep focus on the breath being pulled out from perineum.
Seems like it's pulling out something else from there, which provocks pleasurable tingling. Don't know if anyone can relate to this? |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2013 : 8:18:32 PM
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Yes, I can relate That is an interesting variation on the SBP practice.
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apatride
New Caledonia
94 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2013 : 11:13:52 PM
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How is it a variation of SPB practice? I thought that would be it actually.
Combined with a slowing in breath, the focus on the path of breath deepens and get more and more sensitive.
So you think this it not SPB practice anymore? |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1553 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2013 : 01:53:56 AM
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Apatride, this is exactly what I do as well, but whilst my in-breath is long and slow, drawing up prana /energy (hence the tingling you're feeling)from the perineum up the spinal nerve, it is not a restriction per say but deep slow breathing. Restriction is Ujjayi on the out breath. At some point the breath will want to stop but the energy will still flow. SBP is all about drawing prana with breath and awareness up (and down)the central channel. Some people are good at 'feeling' that energy and any blockages along the way; some 'see' it. I 'see' it.
Try traveling inside the spinal nerve instead of tracing it from an outside perspective. Tricky but makes it much more interesting.
Sey |
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apatride
New Caledonia
94 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2013 : 02:50:07 AM
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Ok then my mistake for using the wrong term... I'm doing deep slow breathing on the in breath indeed, and Ujjayi on the out breath.
Travelling inside the spinal nerve is something I can get sometimes, after a few minutes of SPB, when the breath has remained constantly deep and slow for a while, all seems to widen suddenly and it's like I'm surrended by something. But it's still rare for the moment. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2013 : 07:04:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by apatride
How is it a variation of SPB practice? I thought that would be it actually.
Combined with a slowing in breath, the focus on the path of breath deepens and get more and more sensitive.
So you think this it not SPB practice anymore?
The AYP lessons are very carefully crafted. They are very simple, sometimes so simple that they leave gaps for our own interpretations and variations. I don't necessarily get anxious about experiences and interpretations that are my own, my peculiar variations, but I like to be aware of them as such. In the case of your post where you wrote of: "...the breath being pulled out from perineum," I didn't recall Yogani writing anything quite like that. Unless I'm forgetting or missing something in the AYP teaching, this seems like your own take on the teaching for this phase of your journey (one that I can relate to). No worries. It's cool. We all have our variations. But since I find it helpful to aware of variations as such, I periodically re-read the teaching, looking for ever finer nuances in understanding of Yogani's intention as expressed in his use of language. You might find this helpful too. In the meanwhile, if what you were doing keeps you motivated to do you chosen practice, then it seems to me you are on track, close enough. Enjoy! I've done variations that were a little off for years, and I trust I am still doing some, with and without knowing it.
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apatride
New Caledonia
94 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2013 : 7:01:10 PM
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Thanks bewell for your explanations. Indeed there may be some confusion between actual AYP teaching, and sensations or perceptions one may have and associates with those teachings.
Re-reading lessons is something I do quite often, but you remind me I've not done it for a few weeks. Time to get back to them maybe  |
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amitraghat
India
37 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2013 : 04:12:39 AM
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I found the discussion interesting and creative. I would like to take the opportunity to clear my own doubts on this. I do kumbhaka and restrain my breath in my chest for some time, while in moolbandha & Sambhavi mudra simulataneously. Then I release the breath exhaling while doing Ujjayi till the entire breath or air, is out of my body. I stop there, restraining the intake of breath for some time. Then i again inhale deeply doing moolbandha. Question is, is it right to stop breath after kumbhak & rechaka?
Please help. Regards.... |
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mathurs
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2013 : 10:05:35 AM
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Hello Amitraghat,
As per standard AYP Spinal Breathing pranayama there is no kumbhaka the end of the inhale or end of exhale. If it happens automatically that is different.
Other practices such as Yoni Mudra Kumbhaka and Chin Pump incorporate Kumbhaka. These are done after the Spinal Breathing Pranayama practice.
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amitraghat
India
37 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2013 : 09:35:51 AM
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Hello Mathurs,
Thanks for the reply. Oops! I missed out informing in my post that i do spinal breathing as a warm up. Then I do Pranayam, regular kumbhaka and rechak stuff with moolbandha, uddyana and Jalandhar. Then meditation and lastly Shavasana.Hope I am following the correct process?
regards. Hope we keep in touch. |
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mathurs
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2013 : 10:22:44 AM
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Hi Amitraghat,
Spinal Breathing would equate to Pranayam but with attention going up and down your spine. So if you do Pranayama after Spinal Breathing that is too much. Do you also do any meditation?
In AYP one would start with Meditation - Dhyana Meditation. Once stable one would pick up Spinal Breathing and that would be done just before meditation. So the Pranayama develops the energy side of things and Meditation would bring the silence and stability - shakti/ shiva.
Yes sure - we will keep in touch
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amitraghat
India
37 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2013 : 11:55:36 AM
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Hi Mathurs,
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I do Pranayam with moolbandh etc. after spinal breathing. While doing pranayam i restrain my breath trying to concentrate on the mool chakra. As i inhale, in kumbhak, i do moolbandh imagining the rising if kumdalini in my spinal nerve. I immediately go into sambhavi with my attention on the rising kundalini. Then rechak with descending kundalini. And lastly, Dm. Then Shavasan. Hope its ok?
Regards...... |
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mathurs
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2013 : 09:24:06 AM
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Hi Amitraghat,
If you are doing Pranayama and Spinal breathing - then you are doing too much and this could have overload effects.If you just did Spinal breathing you could apply mula bandha, shambhavi mudra, and ujjayi breath while doing spinal breathing. There is no need for additional Pranayama.
Please see the lesson below for a base line routine:
http://www.aypsite.org/385.html
Hope this helps... |
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SuryaDeva
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - Nov 20 2013 : 7:31:39 PM
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Hi mathurs
What could be the overload effects?.. I've been doing similar practice to the one amirabhat described and I'm not feeling too well. However I have other reasons why I might be having these symptoms, so I'm trying to understand what's happening.
What happens if somebody does too much pranayama? Are the side effects the same for everybody or vary from person to person?.. |
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mathurs
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2013 : 04:41:58 AM
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Hello Suryadeva,
Yes Overload could affect differnt people differently and to different degrees depending on how sensitive one is.
But to me overload will mean feeling irritable, mood swings maybe, headaches, dizzy spells etc. Basically any changes to your normal temperament and health that are uncomfortable. These effects could be delayed as well- not necessarily immediate.
The spinal breathing practice is quite an advanced practice in itself. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2013 : 09:31:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SuryaDeva
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What happens if somebody does too much pranayama? Are the side effects the same for everybody or vary from person to person?..
It feels like being on the edge after having 10 cups of espresso.
If you are used to having a few cups of espresso a day you don't feel too out of sorts, if you are not used to even a cup of espresso then you are bouncing off the walls.
Too much pranayam will affect people based on how sensitive they are to energy... some who think they are not sensitive also get affected by it, they just don't realize it, they don't feel the movement, but they do react to it by getting angry, irritated, antsy, anxious, stressed. People who are sensitive feel all of that and feel it in their nerves as well, they may feel jumpy, shaky, dizzy. Does this help?
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SuryaDeva
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2013 : 4:30:15 PM
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Thank you Shanti and mathurs
It does help a lot. I was browsing the forum yesterday and found lots of posts of people describing getting irritable and angry. I always thought of myself as not being too sensitive to energy, so I think I definitely caused massive overload - I have to read the lessons again because I remember I had this issues before too...
A week ago I re-started my regular practice after a long break and I did a lot of pranayama in the morning - it was such a crisp refreshing air (unusual for where I live) that I couldn't get enough of it - it felt so amazing... But next day I decided that I have to paint the house because it started to bother me that it looks so old and ugly - so I had some intense argument with my husband and felt very unsettled since then...
I see now that it was WAY too much for the first day so I'll try to be more careful 
SD
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Edited by - SuryaDeva on Nov 22 2013 10:10:02 AM |
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trimurtiyoga
India
2 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2013 : 04:27:24 AM
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| I do Pranayama Yoga (Breathing Exercise) on a regular basis. It helps me to slow my racing heart, clear my emotions and bring rational thinking back online. It takes a lot of time to master this exercise, but once you master-it; it helps u to concentrate more on your day to day activity. |
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amitraghat
India
37 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2013 : 06:43:46 AM
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Hi mathurs & Suryadeva,
Let me clarify things here. I do spinal breathing as a warm up to Pranayam. No bandh. Nothing. Just moving my attention up & down my spine in tandem with my rising and falling breath. Then, in one full intake i do moolbandh and retain the breath in my lungs visualising the movement of kundalini up my spine. During this period i do moolbandh with sambhavi in Siddhasan. Slowly i exhale and expel the whole air from my body. I remain like this and then again inhalation and moolbandha.
Now i have been feeling a crawling, whirring sensation on the top of my head. Once the sensation moved down over my face, my throat and my chest. It was amazing.
But i never had any unpleasant experiences. No irritation and no mood swings. Of course i meditate after pranayam and i lie down in shavaasan trying to keep my mind blank. No thoughts. I feel this is important.
But please do reply. Its only with the help of these discussions and mutual help and concern that we could help each other.
regards everyone. Please reply. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2013 : 08:32:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by amitraghat
Hi mathurs & Suryadeva,
Let me clarify things here. I do spinal breathing as a warm up to Pranayam. No bandh. Nothing. Just moving my attention up & down my spine in tandem with my rising and falling breath. Then, in one full intake i do moolbandh and retain the breath in my lungs visualising the movement of kundalini up my spine. During this period i do moolbandh with sambhavi in Siddhasan. Slowly i exhale and expel the whole air from my body. I remain like this and then again inhalation and moolbandha.
Now i have been feeling a crawling, whirring sensation on the top of my head. Once the sensation moved down over my face, my throat and my chest. It was amazing.
But i never had any unpleasant experiences. No irritation and no mood swings. Of course i meditate after pranayam and i lie down in shavaasan trying to keep my mind blank. No thoughts. I feel this is important.
But please do reply. Its only with the help of these discussions and mutual help and concern that we could help each other.
regards everyone. Please reply.
So you are doing spinal breathing first followed by I guess something like yoni mudra, without the things we do with our fingers in yoni mudra, correct?
http://www.aypsite.org/91.html
quote:
Now, with our closed eyes in third eye nudged mode, we go up inside the spinal nerve with our inhalation from the perineum to the point between the eyebrows. When our lungs are full and our attention is at the top of the spinal nerve at the point between the eyebrows, we close our nostrils on the outside with our two middle fingers pressing from either side of the nose. At the same time we keep the index fingers in place pressing the eyes gently toward the point between the eyebrows. Also, at the same time, we lift our tongue to the roof of our mouth, sealing off the mouth inside so no air can escape through there. Now we are holding our breath. But we are not holding it with the epiglottis in our throat, as we normally would. Instead, we allow the air pressure from our expanded lungs to come up easily into our nasal passages and sinuses. This is not a big pressure, only a small one. We don't push it up there. We just let the natural pressure of our filled lungs be up there. Our middle fingers and tongue block our nose and mouth, so no air can escape.
What you are experiencing with the crawling in the head and the energy moving down to throat etc, is good. And as you say, you don't feel any overload symptoms, so that is good too. If you start feeling heavy headed or dizzy or pressure (headaches) then back off, or if during the day you feel any of the overload symptoms, then back off... else you are doing good
The only thing I would add is if possible, add some meditation to your routine. The shavasana that you do after your pranayama sounds like meditation, but you will greatly benefit from adding a formal practice of this, http://www.aypsite.org/13.html
Wish you all the best.
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mathurs
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2013 : 09:38:04 AM
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Amitraghat,
Yes thanks for clarifying. As Shanti says no overload - no issues. The rest of your routine sounds good as well.
Howlong is the warm up and how long is the Pranayama itself?
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SuryaDeva
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2013 : 11:21:39 AM
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Amitraghat
My practice is different from yours in that I did alternate nostril breathing with breath retention (14 sec inhale/exhale and 7 sec hold after both inhale and exhale of total 10 cycles) and visualizing the energy moving up and down the spine like in SBP with mulabandha and sambhavi mudra. I did not do them consecutively like you've been doing your pranayama practice.
I've been practicing alternate nostril breathing for quite a long time before AYP so it felt rather natural to me to just combine these two techniques like that. However breath retention is not recommended in SBP and now I think I understand why I oftentimes do everything in excess including pranayama so it's just the way I learn I guess...
I did this for a week or so and felt great - my body was filled with light every morning when I was doing my practice and I got abundant energy from it - it felt like I did few lines of coke (pardon me this comparison )...
But is it really why I want to do yoga and pranayama?... To get high off of it?.. My husband brought it to my attention that I was acting like an complete asshole towards him otherwise I wouldn't even notice that something is wrong because I was on such an ego trip... Sorry for TMI...
So I decided to stop all my experiments and follow the AYP lessons strictly from now on because I don't know what I'm doing apparently:)
Much love
SD |
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amitraghat
India
37 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2013 : 11:28:32 PM
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Hi Suryadeva,
Seems you are doing a variation of anulom-vilom. I remember reading a lesson by Sri Yogini in which he was of the opinion that when we are doing spinal breathing, there is no need to do anulom-vilom or nadi shodhan.
What we are seized with here is hath yoga. It is an intensely spiritual practise that aims to realise and perhaps visual the Supreme. Pranayam is not getting on a high. You can get on a high more easily by several substances or drugs. The "high" in pranayam is a sign on your road to self realisation. So bhakti, as we understand it in India, is the bed rock of yoga. People do pranayam/yoga without any spirutual grounding or psychology and end up making a mess of themselves. That is why mantras have also been incorporated in hath yog practices.. Please read the marvellous treatise on hath yoga. Its hathyoga pradeepika available on wikisource.
I hope my humble thoughts would be of some help.
regards. |
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About SPB and breath restriction
