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PureAwareness
USA
8 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 05 2013 : 12:24:20 PM
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Hello everyone!
Deep meditation is a truly great technique. Its benefits are so effective, with me at least. However, I notice that to do the actual meditation, it requires a sort of "letting go" of awareness, rather than expanding or retaining it. For those of you that are familiar with Mindfulness practice, I am saying that to do DM, in my experience, it requires a mindset that is sort of the OPPOSITE of mindfulness. I walk the spiritual path in order to EXPAND awareness and experience a "fuller" reality. I feel that although DM brings a lot of peace and happiness into my life, it is somewhat counter-productive due to this abandonment of awareness that is required to transcend thought, because is being mindful not a thought in and of itself? How can you retain awareness and still reach or remain in that state of inner silence? For me, I don't know if I have reached that state until I have left it. TO be aware that I am in it would be to acknowledge it, and I would have already left it were I to acknowledge it... Apologies for the wordiness. It must be a confusing post, so to make things easier, here is my question: To experience a fuller reality, should I discontinue DM and stick solely to mindfulness, or is there a way to retain awareness as I experience such deep and transcendent states of consciousness. I would like to be able to transcend thought and still remain completely aware, so I hope this is possible. In essence, I am asking, is there a way to be a mindful deep meditator? Can deep meditation be combined with mindfulness? Thank you, and that concludes my first post. |
Edited by - PureAwareness on Aug 05 2013 1:07:05 PM |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Aug 05 2013 : 1:45:27 PM
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Hi PureAwareness,
Welcome to the forums!
In the deepest and transcendent state of consciousness (as in Nirvikalpa Samadhi), there is loss of individuality *into* pure awareness. Thus, there would be no "you" to experience it. But states prior to that where the I-sense is retained are possible and routinely experienced by many, as evidenced on these forums.
Mindfulness, at least in my practice, is simply awareness of awareness. If this is what you mean also, then yes, it is a natural occurrence at some point or other with DM - the mantra just dissolves and there is simply resting in/as awareness. But, as you say, as soon as this is realized, the "resting as awareness" is no longer happening in the moment, and has become a thought/observation. Thus, the mantra is picked up again until it spontaneously vaporizes, leaving the meditator resting as awareness again. Over time, this type of mindfulness becomes spontaneous in daily life, in between sitting practices. It is effortless, and just happens.
Hope this helps a bit..
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PureAwareness
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - Aug 05 2013 : 2:21:39 PM
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Hello Kami! Thank you for both the welcome and the reply. By "awareness of awareness," this is exactly what I mean. I notice that in DM, when I have not reached the inner silence, I may be whisked away by a thought or idea, or even when I am sitting quietly with the mantra, I am so absorbed that there is no "awareness of awareness." All that there is, is the thought or the mantra. I feel like if I lose this awareness of awareness, I am no longer doing what is "correct" (for lack of a better term) because if I am not aware of the awareness that I am, how can I possibly "see" reality for what it is. If my goal is realization, to abandon this awareness, to me, feels like going in the opposite direction. From your post it seems as if, using a road analogy, that the beginning of the road ( the meditation session) you may be mindful, in the duration, you lose this awareness, and at the end, you hopefully, reach a resting awareness. The only concept that I can't seem to accept is that "resting as awareness" seems logically impossible, for how can I rest AS AWARENESS but lose this state if I acknowledge it? I do believe that were I to rest as awareness, I would be able to acknowledge this, but this is clearly not the case based on my experience. If acknowledging this state as I am in it, takes me out of it, then is this state awareness or non-awareness?
To elaborate slightly, I have to go a little off-topic for a moment: Mindfulness ( awareness of awareness) makes a huge difference in experience. There is a huge difference between typing this forum, being completely drawn into the concept I am trying to describe, and KNOWING that I am sitting here, writing this. There is a difference between "knowing" I am sitting here writing this, and truly knowing it by being aware and acknowledging it. The latter is awareness of activity, the former is not awareness, but a factual knowing. For instance, if in the former state of mind, I would be absorbed writing, but if someone asked me what I was doing, I would reply " Well I am sitting down writing a reply to a reply." If I was in the other state of mind ( Awareness) I would know and acknowledge already that this is what I was doing. I would be aware of my experience in its totality. I feel that DM brings me into the FORMER state of mind, the absorbed, NOT awareness of awareness one. It is definitely peaceful, restful, and realizations DO occur, but they occur OUTSIDE of practice. I would like to retain the awareness I described DURING meditation in order to learn and observe a deeper state of mind while I am in it. What do you think? |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Aug 05 2013 : 3:40:54 PM
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Hi PureAwareness,
Acknowledgment brings in the thinking mind, and hence, during the process of DM, it is recommended to go back to the mantra. But it is possible to remain resting and aware of it all arising and falling (witnessing). In fact, effortless witnessing 24/7 is the natural evolution of DM. The process I was describing for DM is what is recommended in AYP; if you have not had a chance to look through the lessons, I'd recommend it highly.
You are right, there is a difference between factual knowing and "total" knowing. Ultimately, we are already that awareness/consciousness, Sat-chid-ananda, That. If one has an experiential knowing of this and abides in it, there is no need for practices. I can see how one might feel that DM pulls attention away from awareness - DM and allied practices aid in unraveling that which prevents us from abiding in That - karma, obstructions, vasanas, whatever you may call it. Dharana or single-pointed focus on an object (in this case, the mantra) results in digging into that unseen matrix of "gunk", eventually leading to samadhi. My personal experience is that most of the results of DM are noticed outside of sitting sessions.
In AYP, we really do not emphasize experiences occurring during DM, because experiences are transient (and mean little if one's life in day-to-day activities is not being radically transformed). Also, it is all a gradual process and trust me, the practice evolves with cultivation of inner silence and the witness.
Perhaps others have different viewpoints and will chime in.
Love. |
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PureAwareness
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - Aug 05 2013 : 4:45:47 PM
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Thank you, this helps tremendously! I have read the lessons and have been practicing DM for a good time, but I think I am reaching that point in learning where one knows just enough to know there is much more to learn.
Yes, the effectiveness of the meditation has been apparent through the increased tolerance "threshold" and the lingering happiness, patience, and over-all well-being. It seems as though I just haven't transcended to the point at which I realize what you mean by That. I am interpreting what you've said as this: I am talking about one type of awareness, and you are talking of another. The type of awareness I had presumed was the "main" kind if you will, is superficial and resides within the conscious mind, what you referred to as "effortless witnessing." The "true" or "total" self-awareness that you seem to be speaking of is realized through DM. That total awareness is the kind that I am hoping to attain, I had just assumed that it required that "effortless witnessing" or "superficial" awareness at all times in our life as a prerequisite (in other words, mindfulness). So what you're telling me, if I'm correct, is that the purpose of DM is to experience our consciousness on a more fundamental level, which will lead us realizing, over time more and more, that this fundamental level is not something we visit, this "total-knowing" is not something we acquire, it is who we are. DM is like a turning of the head to look at the whole of who we are, not like walking along a path, to "find and take the treasure." I still hold to my belief that "effortless witnessing" is an important prerequisite, but you've made sense as far as why this action does not require acknowledgingfor awareness is not thought, it is the source of thought.
If I have misinterpreted anything let me know, otherwise, thank you very very much! |
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Retaining Awareness during DM... Can I do it?
