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Stillpool
USA
39 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 27 2013 : 2:30:15 PM
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I have been meditating regularly now for some time. I feel I have gotten past the "clunky" stage and have begun to notice many subtle changes in my life. At the same time, there have been many corresponding changes in my experience of meditation. I understand the analogy about scenery. This is a very good description of correct meditation and it helps me not take my thoughts so seriously. But a couple of changes in my experiences have raised questions and I would like to submit those here for any helpful responses.
There seems to be two ways for me to think the mantra.
1. I pick it up at the start of meditation and then let it go, picking it up and loosing it again and again, effortlessly, during the entire period of meditation. The mantra often becomes more of a faint thought than a repetition. I don't worry about procedure. I just allow it to be, in whatever state it is in, and follow it inward. This has many benefits.
2. I sit and notice thoughts. Then I pick up the mantra. Then I notice more thoughts. I just let them go and pick up the mantra again. I'm not using the mantra to get rid of the thoughts. I'm just coming back to it when I notice I'm thinking. At some point, the thoughts become less disturbing. I need to return to the mantra less and less. At some point I let go of the mantra and just rest as the Awareness noticing the thoughts and sensations without being disturbed by them. In other words, I use the mantra at the beginning of meditation to calm and expand my mind, to quiet my thoughts. Then, when all is quiet, I just let it go, and rest unattached to any and all mental activity, even that of the mantra.
These may seem similar, but they are quite different. I have noticed benefits from practicing both ways. By doing it the first way described, I never stop going inward. By doing it the second way described, inner and outer become the same, and the detachment to my own mental activity/reactivity spills over into how I handle my life. So I'm getting good results from practicing either way. That's why I am asking for clarity here. If one of the two ways proved ineffective I would know that the other way must be the correct procedure. Can someone please clear me up on this matter and get me back the path of DM?
Thanks to all here, and peace
Stillpool 
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2013 : 09:46:41 AM
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Hi Stillpool,
Interesting question. Many of us have asked it.
I have used both methods you describe. In the AYP method of DM, whenever we realize we are not thinking the mantra, we come back to it easily. The second method you describe is a fine practice, but it is not AYP DM.
So then the question arises, Why choose one over the other? I'm in a bit of an "I don't know" phase. What is your sense of how to address that question, Stillpool? Perhaps others could address this question too.
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Stillpool
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2013 : 1:01:00 PM
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Hi Bewell. Thanks for your response.
You ask, "Why choose one over the other?" Well, that's a good question. I think it all relates to scenery. Deep Meditation, properly practiced, leads to unending spiritual growth. While both ways of meditating provide benefits, those benefits could stop. The correct practice is important so those benefits keep unfolding. That's why it's important to me to practice right. I'm new at all this. Who's to say the benefits from resting in awareness, while blissful at times, won't dull my mind in the long run. I just wanted to be sure that I was practicing correctly as both ways mentioned are similar and beneficial. I enjoy the peace I get from meditating, but it's the growth I'm after. That scenery stuff can be addictive 
Peace,
Stillpool |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2013 : 06:32:32 AM
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Whenever I have found myself bringing small variations to AYP, then unsure which is more beneficial...I have learned to bow to Yogani's greater wisdom. The man is always right !
Sey |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2013 : 12:37:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Stillpool
Can someone please clear me up on this matter and get me back the path of DM?
Hi Stillpool. Wish I could offer some experience that might relate to your questions, but instead you'll see I can only tag along with the topic so that maybe we can explore and uncover some common ground. I don't mean to dilute your specific questions with my own; if you or anyone feels that's the case, please split it.
I've done DM with the standard mantra in addition to many of the other AYP practices for 2.5 years now, twice daily, on a fairly aggressive schedule, and I'm not new to meditation at all. Still, I cannot say it is possible to pick up the mantra at more refined levels, since I'm just never off of it. The mantra impulse just keeps itself up almost as if part of the executive in cognitive functioning, no matter whether I'm sitting blissfully in near-complete silence, dissolved in trains of thought, or lured by insights or imagination with which I sometimes choose to just go along with for a little. I have been careful not to constantly 'check in' or to rattle the mantra, as described in a post by Yogani, by not reinforcing such diversions with attention.
I guess this too is correct practice, which is why I just keep it up and not worry too much about it. But then again, it would be helpful to see what's "Deep" about mantra meditation in this way, and especially how it is supposed to help us cut back in meditation times.
Back when I first started, it was with hour long sittings in silence, and they've gone beyond two hours at the most, where my body is too numb and aching to sit anymore despite posture adjustments. Other methods still equally appeal to me, such as breath meditation, awareness watching awareness, just sitting, and custom variations like watching for subconscious impulses and silence.
It would be good to know whether different meditation practices can be more suitable at different points in time and according to the practitioner, counting DM and its mantra enhancements along that spectrum.
For whatever reason, my mind-personality-temperament finds inner silence fascinating, and no doubt this has to be true for any serious meditator in order to keep up the practice hour after hour, year after year. The rewards of peace, well-being, enhanced consciousness, subtle connections to energetic sensations, insights, they all just add to it. It is something that has been increasing steadily, too.
One of the effects on me from meditation is the ability to tune-out into endless reflection or pondering, to the point that hours fly by like minutes if I don't keep an eye on the clock. In sitting practice, this only extends the session, like falling into timelessness where the length becomes meaningless, though the trend is towards longer and longer sessions. If I've observed anything into this time-perception, being lost in pondering or insights (of course, the mantra is always there), time accelerates, but the same thing happens too when basking in silence. The reason I brought this up is because the 20 minute mark for DM to me feels like nothing were it not for the energy practices & samyama that extend the whole session. I can hardly squeeze the first of two AYP sittings into one hour without feeling rushed, and my norm now is probably around 1h30, though I stopped checking the time right after (you can guess why).
The mantra, and really anything repetitive enough, is said to facilitate going deeper. Why does it seem like an obstruction in itself keeping my awareness clinging near the surface level instead? Could this be a sign that I've been in the red zone far too long and in desperate need for an enhancement? Or the opposite, at the choke range when it comes to mantras? Could the more refined silence meditation be interfering with this new style of mantra meditation, like the 'digging the well in too many places' analogy? |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2013 : 03:50:38 AM
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I would add - let us not forget Yogani's constant reminder that the results (benefits) do not manifest in our sittings but in our daily lifes.
Sey |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2013 : 6:20:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Stillpool
2. I sit and notice thoughts. Then I pick up the mantra. Then I notice more thoughts. I just let them go and pick up the mantra again. I'm not using the mantra to get rid of the thoughts. I'm just coming back to it when I notice I'm thinking. At some point, the thoughts become less disturbing. I need to return to the mantra less and less. At some point I let go of the mantra and just rest as the Awareness noticing the thoughts and sensations without being disturbed by them. In other words, I use the mantra at the beginning of meditation to calm and expand my mind, to quiet my thoughts. Then, when all is quiet, I just let it go, and rest unattached to any and all mental activity, even that of the mantra.
These may seem similar, but they are quite different...
Hi Stillpool,
On further reflection on the discerning observations you have shared, I would like to add a few comments. As you may well know, it is important to have a rest period after DM and before entering into daily activities. In the rest period, we drop the mantra, and simply allow what arises in consciousness to process. When our rest period is in "witness consciousness" it is as you describe: "I let go of the mantra and just rest as the Awareness noticing the thoughts and sensations without being disturbed by them." You also observed that when you rest in this manner "inner and outer become the same, and the detachment to my own mental activity/reactivity spills over into how I handle my life." Yes, this is what the rest period facilitates. It is the bridge from DM to life. When we neglect the rest period, then as Yogani points out it is likely we will become "cranky, irritable, and downright uncomfortable." (DM book, p.49) So you can do method one in your correct use of DM method, and method two -- no mantra and dwelling in witness consciousness -- in your necessary rest period.
Thanks again for your fine questions and your commitment to correct practices. You're an inspiration!
Be |
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