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Rinaldo
Italy
47 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 16 2013 : 12:28:39 PM
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Hi,
i just read a question from another topic about Head Pressure relief and Kechari, and i got a few question too:
- Taoist consider kechari the mudra that connect the energy loop between back and front channel, so this could make sense (because this way energy can go down again, grounding).
While the sushumna is one, the energy is felt "running" on those front/back meridians(channels)?
- I'm asking this because i have hard time with visualization, but i can "feel" the spine, so i use those sensations as guide: should i follow maybe the back/front meridian then(similar to microcosmic orbit)? It's dangerous to run attention a long the skull to anja, so touching briefly the head chakra?
- I read that on IN breath is better to let the flow run free, but there is actually any danger for using ujjavi when breathing in?
-Anyone who have energy running all the time, feel it as a cycle or does only go up? and down as "nectar"?
Thank you^^
Rinaldo |
Edited by - Rinaldo on Jul 16 2013 12:32:18 PM |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2013 : 3:38:22 PM
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The pathways of prana along the sushumna is mentioned a few times in the writings, such as Lesson 125 – Kundalini Heat. One of them mentions some differences from the Taoist subtle body map, or at least from the point of view of applying the methods here and their results, which comes out of the Support Forum Posts of Yogani 2010 ebook: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=1474#11000
The suggested course for spinal breathing is to begin with visualizing, and gradually move into "feel" as the sensation emerges. I'm still not sure if I'm applying the "feel" sensation accurately, or if it really has been emerging over time, but there is a subtle tactile sensation, combined with pressure or pleasurable sensations at the ajna and muladhara respectively as the attention reaches them, and it does still occur without mulabandha/asvini or sambhavi energy practices but even more faintly.
Ujjayi and Brahmari in AYP is only used during exhale, since it has a ~similar effect as with external kumbhaka that is not natural or healthy to the lungs (it is used in AYP as with asanas or perhaps a bit with pranayama but not really deliberately). I say 'similar effect' but don't know exactly to what extent. I've done those in the distant past while experimenting on my own without proper guidance or knowing what I was doing, and immediately after felt the repercussions at the physical level (that's a story in itself), so the warnings are there for a good reason. On the inhale, the throat is opened and relaxed more to allow air in easily. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2013 : 6:19:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinaldo
-Anyone who have energy running all the time, feel it as a cycle or does only go up? and down as "nectar"?
Hi Rinaldo,
My body has been energy sensitive for years, and while I am not aware of it all the time, I am able to bring energy flow to my attention most all of the time . In answer to your question, from my experience, the flow of energy depends on a number of factors. These factors include, my spiritual environment and spiritual friendships, my conservation of sexual energy, my intentional use of mudras and bandhas, spontaneous mudras and bandhas, and of particular importance, attention. Energy follows attention. Within this energetic context, energy can go alternatively up and down the spinal channel with attention as in AYP SBP, or in a cycle including front and back as in microcosmic orbit, or consistently up for a phase of attention, or consistently down.
If one wants to be in the flow with the AYP community and practice sequence generally, the channels opened in AYP SBP are most fitting.
Be
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Rinaldo
Italy
47 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2013 : 02:00:00 AM
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Thank you for the advices,
i'll use ujjayi only on in breath^^
About SB pranayama my concern started when i read this in another topic:
"Also, it's really really hard to go literally up and down the spinal cord, in the back of the body, so it's unlikely many practitioners will take the instruction overly literally.
[...]Two kinds of practitioners, though, may fail to find the right groove: 1. very experienced hatha yogis, who have exquisitely precise body awareness, and who WILL take the instruction too literally, [...]Again, it's actually pretty hard to do pranayama up and down that spinal pathway."
(from Jim and His Karma)
I'll try to visualize more internally then, instead of following the spine too precisly^^
Rinaldo |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2013 : 1:04:03 PM
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I'm the guy who posted the quote you referenced.
quote:
I'll try to visualize more internally then, instead of following the spine too precisly^^
Here's my suggestion. If you have that sort of precise hatha yoga inner body awareness (if you're reading along and you don't, please ignore this advice, it doesn't apply to you!), the best thing is to actually blur it. Not only don't be precise in the pathway, but visualize LESS. Just go with a great big, wide, pillar of "up" followed by a great big, wide pillar of "down".
The risk of this is that you get equally sloppy about going all the way. Do be conscientious about getting all the way to ajna, then all the way back down to mulha. Be precise about that (it's extremely easy to get into a habit of sloppily leaving yourself short). But the pathway? Trust me on this: less precision and visualization is better.
And if you develop grounding problems, first, read this thread, but also allow (don't go overboard!) an openness in back body on the "up" and front body on the "down". Don't get too immersed on this, or turn it into another exercise of precision. I'm definitely not suggesting turning your pranayama into Taoist microcosmic orbit, which takes this to an nth degree (in fact, don't even go google that if you never heard of it!). Just add a teeny weeny element. Don't "do" anything there, just allow an openness.It's a "let", not a "do"! |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jul 17 2013 1:05:59 PM |
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Rinaldo
Italy
47 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2013 : 4:25:40 PM
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Hi Jim,
i read all your post about that^^ i found them usefull, i can feel my spine because i'm studing physical therapy and i did work a lot with the spine, posture etc. When i started pranayama i could also feel waves (but very regular and rhytmic) going up, but i had also headache, pulsating body, insomnia. I think it was because i had sinus problem and trying to concetrate is painfull when you have this problem. But now i'm ok, and if i get those problems again maybe it's because of kundalini! So i'll try your suggestions for grounding.
What i could understand is: we are clearing the path for kundalini running attention along it, so we are moving prana only trough sushumna. And while you can cycle prana anywhere a long the meridians, you cannot control what kundalini/shakti will do, right? But what is this Shiva we are "taking down" with out breath? a different type of prana?
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2013 : 8:33:05 PM
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Ciao, Rinaldo,
quote:
i can feel my spine because i'm studing physical therapy and i did work a lot with the spine, posture etc.
I'd suggest forgetting that knowledge here. Here's another way to look at it: I'm sure you've experienced some amount of heart opening. Can you see that it wasn't your actual heart - the organ? It's not a physical thing, it's just an energetic hot spot somewhere around the location of your heart, and which yogis confusingly call "heart", but it's not, like, your HEART, right?
Spine is the same. There's your spine (which you've learned about) and then there's the energetic yoga spine, which isn't really physical. Let it be nebulous. You are focusing in too much on fine physical points, when it's not physical. Know less! :)
quote:
i had also headache, pulsating body, insomnia.
I'd self-pace. Cut some time from your practices. These are "overdoing" symptoms, and Yogani's written a lot about that sort of thing.
quote:
I think it was because i had sinus problem
Not for long. Meditation seems to fix sinus problems. That said, things sometimes get worse before they get better!
quote:
if i get those problems again maybe it's because of kundalini! So i'll try your suggestions for grounding.
Your first action should be self-pacing. Again, cut back the time of your practices. That's always the first thing to do in AYP. And you may have to wait a day or two or three to see an improvement; these things sometimes happen on delay. I'd consider the grounding stuff only if self-pacing isn't enough.
quote:
What i could understand is: we are clearing the path for kundalini running attention along it, so we are moving prana only trough sushumna. And while you can cycle prana anywhere a long the meridians, you cannot control what kundalini/shakti will do, right? But what is this Shiva we are "taking down" with out breath? a different type of prana?
AYP doesn't concern itself with these things. We just carefully observe how we feel and how we act in the world, and pace our practices in response to how well or badly we're doing. You don't have to micro-manage this stuff. You don't have to understand it all. Go stupider. Just be smart about self-pacing. And, after reading this, I'm a little bit sorry I sent you to my grounding discussion. You (like me) are a compulsive tinkerer. The tinkering isn't helpful, and can be a hindrance.
Yes, you cannot control what kundalini/shakti will do. But you can cut back your practices to restrain its intensity (or, at least, to prevent intentionally increasing its intensity). If that doesn't work, try my grounding tips. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jul 17 2013 8:36:47 PM |
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Rinaldo
Italy
47 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2013 : 07:09:43 AM
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Hi Jim,
thank you again, yes i think a lot, but i look at the thinking process ironically! I never take it too seriously, especially in the last months, and i'm learning to let go during meditation. I simply say to my mind: "now it's mantra time, thinking process will no be considered :P" and usually works, maybe it's some sort of samyama!
Anyway when someone point at some missing "Yin", i usually give a look and listen, because coming from an age that have been so "Yang" for so long i would not be surprised if something is missing, but in AYP i feel that when Yogani speaks about shiva coming down to meet shakti, it's the "Yin" part of the system. Just in a different way and with a different approach.
One last thing...i dont remember where, but i read in one of your posts about a correlation between front bend and those blockages you felt, can you tell me something more?
And dont worry you are not diverting me from AYP :-) i already knew about microcosmic orbit and i do not combine different methods togheter^^
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2013 : 11:50:04 AM
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Rinaldo,
Yoga is about letting go. "Letting", not "doing". Relaxing one's grip and relinquishing control. Lots of yogis drop lots of baggage as they do yoga, and then they immediately pick up new baggage. YOGA baggage. They scramble to understand the process, to perfect the process, to OWN the process. And there's nothing more delusional than trying to own a process of letting go. A great line from the wonderful comedians Cheech and Chong: "I used to be all screwed up on drugs....now I'm all screwed up on God!" There are diligent yogis who hang on much more tightly than even the average person.
I've left some information in this forum for people with really serious long-term problems with kundalini, and who are compelled to adjust the process a little. It wasn't intended as mind candy for people trying to tightly control their process of ceding control. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jul 18 2013 11:51:17 AM |
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Rinaldo
Italy
47 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2013 : 1:58:38 PM
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I agree with you, for me it was that way when i started this walk, but now it changed. The more my mind got cought in confusion, doubt, the less i trusted it. I started to just look at the process, at the debate inside. And laugh at it!
The more i learn about yoga, meditation, spirituality, the easier i find to let go, all the process becomes very light.
My feeling now it's like i'm just remembering something i already knew. So i relax, i'm not in hurry, not worried about where i'm going.
So when something in the sea of informations get my intuitive attention, i take a look at it. Who know maybe in the future i'll make a good use of it or i'll need it. I put it in a corner of my mind. That's it!
But it's all a play that is going on, i let it unfold, like a person in a movie theater. And more and more i find myself practicing the method of no method...and there i feel at home ;)
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Energy Cycle, Kechari Mudra, Ujjavi.
