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no.thing
USA
16 Posts |
 Posted - May 13 2013 : 4:21:31 PM
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I feel extremely lucky to have discovered AYP and these forums. Thanks in advance to everyone here. I'll try to keep this brief.
What I really need is just some reassurance about what exactly kundalini is and what AYP is doing... I started with AYP about a week ago and it already seems obvious that it is doing *something*. I can feel it bringing me back to a state of bliss I experienced once before and then lost. It seems like AYP is doing what it's supposed to be doing, in one way. But then there's something else.
I've noticed that, in addition to the blissful feelings, I often seem to get paranoid after doing deep meditation. I should probably say that I started with the "I am" mantra and dropped it after a few days because it seemed too intense. I'm using another mantra now ("so" on inhale and "ham" on exhale) that seems to calm me down without having quite the same intensity.
One example of these paranoid feelings I'm talking about happened today when, during meditation, I had the sensation of a set of eyes directly in front of my eyes, staring unblinkingly back at me, which needless to say was disturbing. I stopped the meditation. Around this time, some dogs started howling outside and I was convinced that this had something to do with the sensation I had just experienced, as if the outside world was reacting in a threatening way to my own internal experiences. Correct or not, the impression was disturbing, and this is not exactly the type of experience I was seeking.
I've read a lot of posts on the forums about people overloading. Basically, my big, big question is this: is it possible to... well... dwell in bliss without having any adverse physical or psychological symptoms? No matter how many books I read about kundalini, no one really seems to know what it is. That's the truth as far as I can tell. You can find Christian sources that say it's the devil and New Age sources that say it's god and every type of source saying every type of thing. How is anyone supposed to make any sense out of this? Does anyone really know what kundalini is and what type of force it is that we are unleashing in our bodies and minds?
Because I was raised in a Christian environment, I tend to look to the Bible for spiritual authority even though I don't practice any type of religion. And the book of Genesis definitely seems to have something to say about kundalini. Of course, yoga/Hindu sources find examples in the Bible that seem to imply that kundalini is a godly force that ancient people around the world knew how to unlock, etc. But the associations of the serpent curling around the tree of knowledge and seducing humanity are too intense to ignore, even if the meaning of it seems more and more ambiguous the harder you look...
I believe that kundalini brings knowledge. But does it inevitably bring pain as well? And is this knowledge something that we are supposed to have?
I know I'm posing these questions in a community that's on a particular path, and I think I am on that path now too. I'm not really expecting any hard answers to these questions, but if anyone has some advice to calm the mind of someone just starting out, I think I need it. I feel like I need to go ahead with AYP for now, but how far I'll go, I don't know, as there seems to be some possibly disturbing stuff on the horizon.
I'm also worried about the tendency to become more and more involved in esoterica that I don't understand, trying to balance my doshas and ground myself so I can continue with the meditation without even knowing if any of this is real... I know there is something in all this that is very real, but I wonder if any of us really understand it.
Do we?? |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2013 : 8:48:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by no.thing
...I started with the "I am" mantra and dropped it after a few days because it seemed too intense. I'm using another mantra now ("so" on inhale and "ham" on exhale) that seems to calm me down...
..I know I'm posing these questions in a community that's on a particular path, and I think I am on that path now too. I'm not really expecting any hard answers to these questions, but if anyone has some advice to calm the mind of someone just starting out, I think I need it. I feel like I need to go ahead with AYP for now, but how far I'll go, I don't know, as there seems to be some possibly disturbing stuff on the horizon.
Hi,
It is common for fear to arise when beginning a path of meditation. Like you I am from a Christian background and am familiar with the story of the serpent and the tree of knowledge. I have experienced some of the worries you express. Basically, what I come back to in my meditation practice and in life is direct experience of the present moment. I witness fears and other afflictive emotions arise and fade. Daily practice increases a sense of abiding in "silence" or "stillness" such that worries about whatever -- interpreting scripture, or interpreting particular emotions -- no longer take hold of me at the core of who i am.
In AYP Deep Meditation, when fears arise, we respond as with any "scenery" -- we gently return to the thought of the sound of the mantra.
Be
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2013 : 9:21:46 PM
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Dear no,
Firstly, a different mantra, especially when repeated with the breath, is NOT AYP, and will not necessarily give even similar results. Therefore, whatever sensations, perceptions or paranoid delusions this "so-ham" breath practice is causing has nothing to do with any of the AYP family of practices. Secondly, yes, it is possible to experience bliss, states of grace, balance and joyousness, without having adverse reactions, HOWEVER... As the Buddha told us, life involves suffering. Whether one's life involves yoga, or any other spiritual practice, or not, you will have to suffer. The spiritual path does not necessitate suffering, nor does it cause suffering, life itself comes complete with it. It is also true that this "spiritual path" is not a small thing, nor a large thing, but, in the final analysis, it is the ONLY thing. It is not something we do for a while, then grab the glory, collect the enlightenment and clear out. This is a lifetime (or MANY lifetimes...) deal, and until we put 20, 30, 40 or 50 years into regular practice, our expectations should be gradual rather than spectacular. I began practice in 1970, 43 years ago. It was only 9 years ago, following 34 years of regular practice (not to mention hours of darshan and 2 full years in ashram decades ago!) that I had a kundalini awakening. Yes, kundalini IS a real thing, and with the proper techniques, lifestyle, devotion and will, it can be smooth, easy, joyous and decidedly not adverse, painful or difficult. Patience is key, self-discipline is key, balance is key. You WILL run into pain along your path, spiritual or not. The spiritual seeker deals with difficulties differently from the non-seeker, and therefore derives something much deeper from these encounters. In fact, in my own case, my suffering has routinely allowed me to make giant steps in my self-realization. I bow to my suffering, because those challenges have given me my best opportunities to grow and evolve into greater wholeness--and over my 60 years, I have not had an easy life, so I know of what I speak when I speak of suffering... Nobody said life was going to be easy. Self-awareness at times does seem to make it more painful, but this, I believe, is due to the growth of compassion which is inevitable on the spiritual path, and is one of the necessary keys for self-realization. One of the things I have always said is that a life well-lived is it's own best reward. The path of Yoga is specifically structured so that we cannot help but make a life well-lived, and that will always bring us the greatest set of rewards--joy, love, contentment, acceptance and wholeness. I leave you with the words Krishna spoke to Arjuna, from the Bhagavad Gita, when he sent him out to do battle: "Yogastha Kuru Karmani"; “Established in Silence, perform Action.”
Michael |
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no.thing
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2013 : 11:05:06 PM
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Thanks for the replies, bewell and mikkiji. What I am coming back to as I keep thinking these things through is that the experiences I am having seem necessary. The only thing I can conclude, for now, is that some ugly stuff that needs to be cleared out is rising to the surface. This seems to be what Yogani says will happen, so I'm going to assume that that's the case and continue with some very gradual cleaning work.
I know the "so ham" mantra is not part of AYP, but there's no way I could handle "I am." The effect was very intense, and after a few days, I could not sleep. Either mantra actually has a very energizing effect that isn't 100% pleasant, though I think "so ham" is better - so that's why I'm using that one for now. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2013 : 11:01:22 AM
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Hi no.thing,
Kundalini is mentioned in a few places in the bible. It is often called the power of the Holy Spirit or living water. A good example is found here...
John 7:37-38
37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”
In Christian terms, Kundalini is the living water of the Holy Spirit helping to connect us to our soul. Through meditation (or listening to God) we begin to release issues, fears and obstructions. As they start to clear, we notice the kundaliini flow sort of "rubbing up" against obstructions when the mind is relatively quiet. Negative issues with Kundalini are really more dependent on ones ability to "let go of" the underlying obstructions. If you let go of them, kundalini is a smooth and loving flow. If not, the energy continues to rub/hit against the obstructions. It is the rubbing/hitting process (without letting go) which creates all of the negative kundalini issues that people describe. The "mind" can translate the energies into some pretty scary (and amazing) things.
Regards, Jeff |
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no.thing
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2013 : 3:23:24 PM
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When I think it over with a clear head, it seems obvious that kundalini isn't evil. Any true holy book, and I certainly respect the Bible as such, cannot be saying that a power representing bliss and union with divinity is evil.
At the same time, this quote from Carl Jung struck a chord with me: "[Kundalini] is a meddling with Fate, which strikes at the very roots of human existence and can let loose a flood of sufferings of which no sane person ever dreamed." Wow.
About mantras, I think it's true that these sounds have real depth and power - any sound probably does, if you look deeply enough into it. The ability to look deep, coupled with a lack of ability to put what is seen into proper focus in ordinary life, seems to me to be a problem. I really don't want to put myself into a mental hospital, haha... |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2013 : 9:54:09 PM
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Let me also extend a welcome, No.thing.
quote:
Originally posted by no.thing
is it possible to... well... dwell in bliss without having any adverse physical or psychological symptoms?
As you read the lessons, you'll notice the practices are set up with this in mind. The do's and don't are spelled out quite clearly, and should there be adverse symptoms arising, there's self-pacing where one cuts back or stops altogether for a period of time to allow everything to settle back down.
As with anything, there's always a measure of inherent risk, and we all know that's part of life. But I dare say there can be equal or greater risks in not taking actions, not asking questions or inquiring. If you have some interest, curiosity, or even a great inner calling, as it clearly shows by your posts, then evaluate whether the risk is worth the potential rewards to you, and assuming personal responsibility either let it go or follow through with it to whatever degree you feel comfortable.
quote:
Originally posted by no.thing
How is anyone supposed to make any sense out of this?
If the books you've come across have not given you a sense of commendation, then the only possible step short of leaving it a mystery is to see for yourself on your own terms.
quote:
Originally posted by no.thing
And is this knowledge something that we are supposed to have?
Supposed to or not, there are plenty of people willing to dedicate their lives to the practice, and one person's should and shouldn't's don't necessarily have meaning to the other already doing it.
quote:
Originally posted by no.thing
if anyone has some advice to calm the mind of someone just starting out, I think I need it
I've been on a few related paths before, and my ongoing search, insights and clues have manifested more or less like the pieces of a puzzle coming together in the form of what you find here. This same thing seems to be happening to you with your unique angle of approach, and that in itself is reason enough to continue pursing.
quote:
Originally posted by no.thing
I wonder if any of us really understand it.
There are no prerequisites in order for the practices to be effective. The benefits I have been getting out of meditation have been there when I first started as after I learned more about it from other sources. I believe it is the fruit of the practices that help bring about real understanding in the first place, and not the other way around.
quote:
Originally posted by no.thing
this quote from Carl Jung struck a chord with me
Carl Jung was a great psychologist-psychiatrist who brought fourth a number of revolutionary theories and evidence that span a great deal more than just one academic field. His theory about the collective unconscious, and the evidence backing the archetypes found among different cultures in different parts of the world was and still is groundbreaking. So with respect to these and other achievements, it isn't entirely just to assume one to be equally knowledgeable or experienced across any and all fields singlehandedly.
Dr. Jung was only beginning to look into Eastern philosophy and spirituality, unlike some of his colleagues or acquaintances who were already initiates. In his words, "..to speak of Richard Wilhelm .. his life-work has a range which I have not encompassed. Nor have I seen the China that first shaped and later continued to engross him .. I am not familiar with its language, the living spiritual expression of the Chinese East. I stand .. as a stranger outside the vast territory of knowledge and experience in which Wilhelm worked as a master of his profession .. but we met in a field of humanity which begins beyond academic boundary posts .. What the East has to give us should be merely help in a work which we still have to do ourselves. Of what use to us is the wisdom of the Upanishads or the insight of the Chinese yoga, if we desert the foundations of our own culture as though they were errors outlived.." (Secret of the Golden Flower, p. 138-144).
Other scholars too place his commentaries on Kundalini, Yoga, and Eastern philosophy into a realistic and fair perspective: "From a Tantric point of view, Jung's chosen path remains on the level of intellectual fascination, which in the final analysis is a karmic state of mind" (Feuerstein; Tantra, p. 102). He goes on to say "we need not share the pessimism expressed by Carl Jung in the 1934 seminar on kundalini-yoga that the symbolism of the East is basically inaccessible to us" (p. 267). So in other words, Dr. Jung's exploration into these alternate fields cannot be taken as his final verdict, but as the start of a bridge between psychology and Eastern thought that was left to others to follow up on and explore.
A final thought, have a look at Lesson 267 which is but one of many that speaks on the all-embracing and open source nature of the practices you can expect to find throughout the writings. |
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adinatha
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2013 : 1:18:18 PM
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| all that's happening is you are becoming aware of your inner condition, the vayu (wind) and prana are aware but are beyond mind so you get this feeling of another presence, but it is not another; it's your true nature |
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