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Filipo1
Switzerland
21 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 17 2013 : 10:07:41 AM
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Hello,
As Deep Meditation seems so close to TM which I have been practicing for more than a year now and as I did not encounter equivalent forums for TMers, please allow me to come to you to try to clarify some doubts I have about my practice.
Recently I am feeling quite often uncomfortable with the mantra practice.
Before TM I had been practicing buddhist meditation for a few years, more specifically within the Zen tradition (Soto and Rinzai).
My main problems with TM experience as opposed to zazen, is the fact that my mind is either overflowed by endless thoughts chains or when theses thoughts chains are off I feel that the mantra repetition is like artificial and a hindrance to allow myself to absorb in the present moment. My teacher made it clear that I should not necessarily force myself to repeat the mantra voluntarilly as it could get more and more subtle and eventually completely disappear.
So far for me disappearance of the mantra was either due to distracting thoughts arising or state of mental dullness.
And it does not seem to improve over time which leaves me perplex on possible mistake in my practice.
Any suggestions please? |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2013 : 10:10:08 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2013 : 5:56:26 PM
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Hi Filipo,
I am not familiar with TM practice so I cannot comment on that, but I am familiar with AYP mantra meditation, so I can offer some advice based on what I do know.
Your instructor is giving the same advice as is given here, that the mantra can become more subtle over time and change form, even disappearing altogether at times. So simply being aware that that can happen and not being too forced or rigid with pronunciation, can help.
Another thing that can help is to be aware that silence and the mantra (and other thoughts) can all exist in the mind at the same time. It is not a case of mantra/ thoughts or inner silence. The mantra arises from within an ocean of silence, remains within that ocean and disappears into that ocean of silence with every repetition. The same goes for thoughts and for any object which arises during meditation such as a sensation in the body or a sound in the room. So the process of the mind expanding into inner silence does not necessarily have anything to do with the mantra fading or disappearing. The mantra could even get louder and the silence simultaneously get stronger and wider.
The shift into samadhi, is a shift into the ocean of silence, whether the mantra is still there or not. Either way, the process of meditation is the same, simply gently favouring the mantra over anything else that is happening and coming back to the mantra whenever we realize we are off it.
Remember too that a year is not a long time in terms of meditation practice. When I started out I thought it would take a month max. After about 2 years I began to realize it was going to take a while.  But don't be discouraged by that. After all, what else is more worthwhile to do in this lifetime?
On the subject of anapanasati (breathing meditation) and zen meditation, there is no reason at all why you should not practice either or both of those if you feel drawn to them. If you do, you may find that you want to come back to using a mantra again at a later stage. Or you can practice all three, but in that case just be aware that you would be taking on one gentle practice (anapanasati) and two advanced practices (mantra meditation and zazen) together, so there could be some doubling up of energetic effects happening.
Christi
p.s. welcome to the forum. |
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apatride
New Caledonia
94 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2013 : 6:11:05 PM
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Thoughts, dullness and other stuff are normal by-products from DM-induced purification. When the focus is on the mantra, it will eventually fades off then be replaced by thoughts or reveries. This is good sign that purification is ongoing. When noticed, you should easily choose to focus on mantra.
I'm myself in a clunky period in which DM feels not very natural, with a lot a tension arising that gets me strong pressures in the head. I'm also flooded with thoughts but that's OK, given there are thoughts resulting from purification and releasing of obstructions.
Hope it helps. |
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Filipo1
Switzerland
21 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2013 : 4:46:50 PM
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Thanks for your replies.
Apatride, when you and other DMers refer to the purification process (by the way also a term frequently used among vipassana practitioners) and the release of obstructions, it really closely echoes with TM's stress release.
However how do we know that there is effectively such a process occuring when one's mind, like in my case, is so often struck with thought and dullness? It is for me a little disconcerting in contrast with the samatha-vipassana bhavana induced by the practice of anapanasati, it seems for me easier to understand that once our practice is established in the first rupa-jhanas , the developement of every moment's attention or mindfulness could lead to cleaning of obstruction. |
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boris
Norway
68 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2013 : 9:03:12 PM
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| What is the difference between anapanasati and zazen |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Apr 20 2013 : 11:06:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by boris
What is the difference between anapanasati and zazen
Hi Boris,
Anapanasati literally means "mindfulness of breathing". It is a practice very similar to Deep Meditation except that the breath is used as the object of meditation instead of the mantra. Otherwise everything is pretty much the same.
Zazen is the basic meditation practice of zen and is a simple sitting practice. No object of meditation is used, but instead the objects of the mind are simply watched, and allowed to settle of their own accord.
Christi |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Apr 22 2013 : 08:33:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Filipo1
Thanks for your replies.
Apatride, when you and other DMers refer to the purification process (by the way also a term frequently used among vipassana practitioners) and the release of obstructions, it really closely echoes with TM's stress release.
However how do we know that there is effectively such a process occuring when one's mind, like in my case, is so often struck with thought and dullness? It is for me a little disconcerting in contrast with the samatha-vipassana bhavana induced by the practice of anapanasati, it seems for me easier to understand that once our practice is established in the first rupa-jhanas , the developement of every moment's attention or mindfulness could lead to cleaning of obstruction.
Hi Filipo1
I can understand why someone might think that purification only happens when the mind is absorbed in samadhi (the jhanas). Actually, any form of concentration will cause prana to move and will result in purification. So even if someone is meditating and their mind is dull and continuously lost in thought, the moments of clarity (even if they are few and brief) when the mind is brought back to the mantra or the breath, will result in purification happening. Obviously, the more moments of clarity there are and the deeper that clarity is, the more purification will take place.
Both mantra meditation and breathing meditation (anapanasati) will result in samatha (peace-fullness/ calmness/ tranquility), and both will also result in the awakening of kundalini with all the stiring up of the body and mind that goes along with that. The same is also true of zazen practice.
Christi |
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Mantra vs anapanasati practice
