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Arjuna
USA
69 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 06 2009 : 9:06:14 PM
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I was recently initiated into this lineage of Kriya, and had a concern about the version of pranayama that was taught, and the possibility of too much crown activity. Without divulging the details of the technique, the main focal point is the fontanel. From fontanel, the concentration cycles down through the 6 chakras, and then back up to fontanel.
I did this practice for a few weeks without any noticeable effects. Then, one day during pranayama, I started to physically shake, and then for no apparent reason, I became terrified, anxious, and frightened to my very core.
I layed off practice for a few days, and started to feel like my normal self.
Anybody familiar with the current version of 1st kriya as taught by Hariharananda's lineage, and possible dangers?
I spoke to their archarya's and they dismissed my concerns reporting it to be perfectly safe. |
Edited by - AYPforum on Sep 06 2009 9:38:34 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2009 : 9:45:54 PM
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Welcome to the forums Arjuna.
I don't know about that system, but any kind of pranayama should include some type of "self pacing" to remedy that type of thing.
You can read about self pacing in the main lessons, or in the big book "AYP Easy Lessons for Ecstatic Living" (see the upper right of this page).
I'm sure it is mentioned in some of the other books but I don't know which ones. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2009 : 09:46:58 AM
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It would also be helpful to add in some daily deep meditation to your pranayama practices if you aren't already, like the kind described here:
http://www.aypsite.org/13.html
Daily meditation will make the ride a lot smoother. It creates space and distance between experiences and makes them easier to "digest". |
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dashour
Indonesia
9 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2009 : 10:42:53 AM
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I have been hearing for many years the occasional anecdotal story of someone harming themselves by "raising their kundalini energy before it's time", so to speak, but have never actually met one who was so harmed. I suspect that in at least some cases, these people had psychological problems that would have manifest no matter what, practice or no practice.
I have been doing Kriya Yoga for more than 10 years. (not Hariharananda's version, nor SRF's). I submit that perhaps your experience caused a bit of fear, but no actual harm. And, had you not been startled by it, (and perhaps will not be next time) it would have been a positive and welcome sign of progress.
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2009 : 6:37:00 PM
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quote:
I submit that perhaps your experience caused a bit of fear, but no actual harm.
I agree.
Avoiding the crown is only a safety concern for AYP. There are other systems which use the crown and are safe. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2009 : 10:04:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dashour
I have been hearing for many years the occasional anecdotal story of someone harming themselves by "raising their kundalini energy before it's time", so to speak, but have never actually met one who was so harmed.
There are a lot of stories on the internet of problems, not from the kundalini rising before it's time, but of premature crown opening.
That's why Yogani's "spinal breathing" pranayama (read the book to the right, or in the main lessons) specifically does not have you concentrate on the crown.
Premature crown opening can have severe mental consequences that can last for years in some cases. Some people don't have those problems,
but it's not something to gamble on.
Yes it is rare. I have never met anyone who does kriya for that matter, but I know there are a lot who do.
Everything discussed on this forum is rare compared to the general population.
Laying off the kriya and returning to normal sounds like Yogani's "self pacing".
However, the system is not one practiced by people here, so I would be wary of being terrified and having people tell you it's perfectly safe.
You are fooling with the very core of who you are.
I hope you are doing plenty of deep meditation to balance it out.
Often premature openings are caused by too much pranayama. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Oct 07 2009 : 12:53:08 PM
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Hi Arjuna,
Just because someone tells you that a spiritual practice is perfectly safe, doesn't mean that it is. I have friends who have ended up in psychriatric hospitals after doing Yoga practices that they were told were safe. Bastrika and practices involving the crown chakra (fontanel) are often the main causes. So keep an eye on what you are doing. If you feel that what you are doing is too dangerous, then there is a much safer form of pranayama in the main lessons here:
http://www.aypsite.org/41.html
All the best,
Christi |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Oct 07 2009 : 7:46:43 PM
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| Also in the "Spinal Breathing Pranayama" book at the right of this page. |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Oct 07 2009 : 8:05:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Arjuna,
Just because someone tells you that a spiritual practice is perfectly safe, doesn't mean that it is. I have friends who have ended up in psychriatric hospitals after doing Yoga practices that they were told were safe. Bastrika and practices involving the crown chakra (fontanel) are often the main causes. So keep an eye on what you are doing. If you feel that what you are doing is too dangerous, then there is a much safer form of pranayama in the main lessons here:
http://www.aypsite.org/41.html
All the best,
Christi
Really? Psychiatric institutions? Unlikely they weren't on their way anyway. There is no causal link between yoga and insanity. Then, you advice is "our way or the mental institution." That sort of talk is unwise.
I had some older ladies tell me the AYP methods cause them to experience vertigo and fear. Advanced yoga is not for everyone. Everyone must find their own way. |
Edited by - Konchok Ösel Dorje on Oct 07 2009 8:23:17 PM |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Oct 07 2009 : 10:22:57 PM
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These 3 elements of AYP help contribute to the safetY.
1.Deep meditation
- deeper global purifier,stabiliser
2.Spinal Breathing Pranayama-
-root to brow/3rd-Eye path, the crown opens indirectly so safely.
3.Self-pacing
- we don't go too fast so we can monitor changes gradually.
It is about nudging long-term. Big openings typically benefit from stabilisation, grounding or just taking it easy on those days/hours following.
Going staright to the crown to start off does'nt seem the safest apporach. Purifying the totality of the nervous system, everything other than the crown first, so in effect the crown opens by itself ,as it knows best, has to be a lot safer and wiser.
Better safe than sorry(in my view;one informed by experience)
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Oct 08 2009 : 09:25:02 AM
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I agree with others saying to be careful, but I will repeat what I said before:
quote:
There are other systems which use the crown and are safe.
Luckily, the symptoms of fear and physical shaking aren't signs that you should self pace/stop...unless you feel that you should. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Oct 08 2009 : 3:45:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Konchok Ösel Dorje
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Arjuna,
Just because someone tells you that a spiritual practice is perfectly safe, doesn't mean that it is. I have friends who have ended up in psychriatric hospitals after doing Yoga practices that they were told were safe. Bastrika and practices involving the crown chakra (fontanel) are often the main causes. So keep an eye on what you are doing. If you feel that what you are doing is too dangerous, then there is a much safer form of pranayama in the main lessons here:
http://www.aypsite.org/41.html
All the best,
Christi
Really? Psychiatric institutions? Unlikely they weren't on their way anyway. There is no causal link between yoga and insanity. Then, you advice is "our way or the mental institution." That sort of talk is unwise.
I had some older ladies tell me the AYP methods cause them to experience vertigo and fear. Advanced yoga is not for everyone. Everyone must find their own way.
Hi Osel,
It is not at all a case of "our way or the mental institution". Personally I practice under many systems and spiritual traditions, all of which are perfectly safe. Even within the broad range of Yoga, most spiritual practices are safe and can be practiced by anyone. There are however a few practices, which can be dangerous and should be practiced with care and with knowledge of what is involved. The group of bastrika practices are among the more dangerous and the group of crown chakra based practices are another set. Kumbhaka (both internal and external) would also rank among these practices.
The thing that all these practices have in common is that they put a very strong pull on the kundalini energy at the base of the spine. If kundalini awakens before her time, she can move through the body causing mayhem on the way. There are many symptoms of a premature kundalini awakening, ranging from mild to severe. One of the mild symptoms can be anxiety. If this becomes more pronounced it can develop into paranoia, and even extreme paranoia. My friends who ended up in psychiatric institutions as a result of premature kundalini awakenings were both suffering from extreme paranoia. They sectioned themselves, which means they signed consent forms to enter the hospital. They were both healthy and mentally well before the event.
But these are extremely rare cases of premature kundalini awakenings. Normally it does not reach that stage. We have had many people coming to this forum after practicing other spiritual systems who were suffering from the ravages of a premature awakening. Eventually they were able to balance out the wayward energies and continue their spiritual practices.
Usually premature kundalini awakenings only involve fairly mild symptoms and can be sorted out fairly easily with the right knowledge.
All this is not to say that these "dangerous" practices should be avoided completely. These days, about half of my spiritual practices involve some kind of bastrika, kumbhaka or crown chakra based practice. But I did not start out doing these practices, and I added them slowly, under guidance. It is all about doing the right practice at the right time, with the right knowledge base.
Advanced Yoga is certainly not for everyone. It is for those who are ready. For those who are not, there are many basic practices that can help prepare the body and mind, in order to become ready.
Christi
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Arjuna
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2009 : 8:36:25 PM
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Thank you all for sharing with me. I have switched over to AYP spinal breathing pranayama, and deep meditation. What I have retained from kriya are the "7 bows" technique as taught to me by Hariharananda circa 1992. The bows are done before both mahamudra and pranayama, and are to facilitate balancing ida and pingala.
For the better part of my adult life, I have dabbled with various mystical practices in search of a magic bullet that would cause a Holy Ghost explosion within me.
This past year my motivation has radically changed. These days, I have little care to experience internal fireworks. Instead, I now desire to steadfastly practice twice per day, and gently expand the love and peace that subtley pervades my inner being.
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2009 : 6:08:09 PM
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Hariharananda was from the same lineage of Kriya Yoga masters coming forth from Babaji - Lahiri Mahasaya - ,, and so on. And as far as I know, the kriya breath is always the same in the routing. But you also find many hints from Hariharananda where he directly speaks of the crown: "see the milky white light at the crown, stay there and freedom is sure" etc.
I am sure that someone who has pured out everythin in his own system can not see any danger in this, most probably just sees beautiy in diretly going to the source.
On the other side, if the technique is given by a guru, he also is responsible for your practice in cause and effect. So even if it goes a bit faster than usual, there is not much to be feared if guided this intimately.
We know that Yogani helps here and there those who practice. But in general, he made the system in a way, including the element of self pacing, that it works out of itself without the need of him doing anything.
The situation within the kriya lineage of masters is surely a little different. We know of many students from this lineage who practiced hours and hours and are done within some little years without overdoing hindrances. I can't imagine doing 3-4 hours DM for some days or weeks without unbearable effects.
Ok, I don't know if you got the techniques really directly from him in a physical way or at least had his blessing consiously in dream or even awake through a vision. If you hadn't anything of this, your reaction is normal. But if you had the -guru-I love and work for your smooth opening-proof- , then you can trust this.
Anyway, as it seems you already started with the ayp routine. Better not mixing these extreme powerfull systems =) |
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Arjuna
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2009 : 10:41:27 AM
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The technique of Hariharanda's Kriya pranayama is very different from Lahiri's technique. AYP's spinal breathing pranayama is much closer to Lahiri's version.
It has been reported that Hariharananda routinely stated that Lahiri's pranyama was for kintergarden children, and so he developed a technique that increased the purification efficiency of pranayama.
From my own personal experience, I can vouch for the fact that Hariharanada's pranayama resulted in extreme overload for me!!!
This past summer, after a 15 year lay-off, I had ressurected my practicing of Hariharanada's pranayama on a twice daily basis. After 3 weeks of practice, I was suddenly hit hard with overload symptoms. I had discussed my overload symptoms with Hari's archarya's, and they told me to "just keep on going"... but I was too fearful of the resultant effect.
Fortunately, there was a kriyaban who advised me to stop what I was doing, and begin root to brow pranayama. His reasoning was that it was much too soon for me to be putting so much attention on fontanel (crown) during pranyama, and that I should focus on kutastha (brow, third eye).
Astonishingly, I simultaneously discovered this AYP website!!! I was delighted to have a second opinion that stressed shifting focus away form fontanel!!!
This kriyaban also reported that depending on my rate of purification, I would be able to resume and manage the powerful efficiency of Hariharanda's pranayama by self regulating my practice.
Now that I have been doing AYP pranayama for the past 10 weeks, I do not experience any overload. In fact, I have introduced Hariharanada's pranayama into my practice using self pacing, and although some faint overload symptoms return, they are manageable.
I can report that for my level of Spiritual evolution, AYP allows me (to date), to progress at a safe, comfortable pace... and I venture a guess that I will be able to reap the benefits of Hariharanada's pranayama as I continue to purify my nervous system using AYP.
I credit the "Deep Meditation" of AYP for helping me to dissipate, and de-compress any overload that may be occuring. Often times during the deep meditation phase, my body will randomly twitch and spasm in isolated parts of my body. I percieve this to be a by-product of purification.
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2009 : 1:33:43 PM
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It is very uncommon that the kriya breath is changed that dramatically, but hey, that guy is of my taste =P He has one student who reached the Pramahamsa state too, but I don't know of any others.
As it sounds, you didn't have any direct contact with Hariharananda.
If you are fine with AYP, go on. Opening the brow is doing the job for most of the people anyway. And most of them are fully content with it also. The crown is only for those who want the absolute truth. That what exceeds even you. No one is ready to die, so relax.
Wish you whats best for you :) |
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Arjuna
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2009 : 3:32:49 PM
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Holy,
Thank you for taking time to share your thoughts with me, and wishing me all the best!!!
Actually, I did recieve initiation from Hariharananda in person during a 1994 Kriya initiation in New York City. He was a very sweet man, and initiated each attendee on a one-on-one basis.
In 1994, I did my best to meditate daily as per Hari's instructions. What can I say??? After about 2 weeks of daily practice, I just lost interest, and dropped kriya all together. Do you know, at that time I was naive, expecting a Holy Ghost explosion, and to receive instant enlightenment from simply touching the robes of Hariharananda.
In the interim years, I experimented with Soto Zen, Tibetan buddhism, SRF, but keep in mind I only played with the techniques, and never developed a steadfast practice for longer than a few weeks at a time.
Fast-forward to earlier this year of 2009, and I had a strong sense of devotion to resurrect my God-quest. Rather than dismiss my bhakti, I searched out a kriya yoga initiation ceremony in the lineage of Hariharananda. The hosting kriya center retained the documentation of my 1994 initiation, and welcomed me to attend the ceremony without any restrictions. Since I was initiated by Hariharananda himself, I did not require to be re-initiated, but I was able to use this opportunity to review the techniques of 1st kriya.
Actually, I was quite surprised at how much the techniques of 1st kriya had changed form 1994 to 2009. When I asked why so many changes, I was told that the techniques were streamlined and simplified to accomodate today's busy lifestyle. The pranayama technique did not change, but many other parts of 1st level kriya were simplifed or eliminated.
So, that is a brief bio of my experience with the kriya lineage of Hariharananda.
I like to believe that the saints and sages of all religions watch over and protect those people that are sincere about their personal God-quest. Concerning my overload symptoms, perhaps I was not in any real danger, but I was so very terrified that I was on the brink of losing my identity, and everything I believed to be reality, I had to ease up on my practice intensity.
I have remained steadfast in practicing twice daily for several months, and I am just beginning to reap the benefits of my Spritual practice. My life both on and off the meditation cushion is transforming in a very subtle, beautiful way. Words cannot describe it, but I am certain many share my experience.
I truly know that I am coming home! |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Apr 20 2013 : 3:49:33 PM
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Hi Arjuna,
some time has passed since your posting :) The topic of Hariharananda's kriya yoga has enflamed once again :) Obviously it wants to be spoken of and talked about a little more.
You had written, that you had restarted with the practice. Are you still into it and if yes, would you like to write about your experiences and practice results after so many years? :)
Lovely greetings,
Holy |
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Holy
796 Posts |
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Hariharananda's Kriya Pranayama Problems
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