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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 03 2006 : 11:58:13 PM
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Hello AYP-ers,
Check this out: http://www.wikipedia.org
So there's this free, online encyclopedia called Wikipedia, which is becoming very popular. Some of you have linked to it in posts, so I know many of you are aware of it. Anyways, Wikipedia is "open-source", meaning anyone can create new articles, or modify or dispute existing ones. It's moderated, so even though anyone can create articles, bogus or poorly-written ones are not accepted. They try to keep a high level of integrity and quality of entries.
While looking up yoga stuff, it occurred to me that there is no entry for AYP. There are entries for related subjects, like: yoga, kundalini, Paramahansa Yogananda, meditation, etc. So the idea entered my mind that we could create an AYP entry. It could include a description, history of AYP, related topics, and external links.
Additional articles could be created for Yogani (biographical), as well as for each book in the AYP series (and Wilder). Not only would people encounter the AYP articles while searching for related topics, but there could also be direct links to the AYP home page. I recommend browsing around on Wikipedia, to get an idea what I'm talking about. Use "Rajneesh" as a key word, for example 
Is anyone interested in contributing to this effort?
Peace out homies |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 09:38:42 AM
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What a great idea Cosmic. Anyone here ready to do this?
If not, if someone could guide me on how this can be done.. I will do it. Yogani? David?
There was another post by Hunter here
quote:
Hi Yogani,
East West Bookshop in Mountain View, CA http://www.eastwest.com/ puts out a seasonal event calendar and newsletter. The free newsletter is read by many people in all the cities in between and including San Francisco and San Jose, CA. The newsletter is accessed freely in almost all coin operated newspaper stands on the peninsula. The highlights of the newsletter are book reviews, interviews, and daily events in the bookstore event room.
I recall that the book shipments mainly came from Baker and Taylor, Ingram, Newleaf, and Bookpeople.
Did someone follow up on this?
Can this be done via email?
Once again.. guide me on what needs to get done and I will do it..
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 11:18:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by cosmic_troll
Hello AYP-ers,
Is anyone interested in contributing to this effort?
Ideally everyone (or at least lots of people) would. Wikipedia is all about combined effort. So someone start, and let the others edit and supplement. And don't fret if the anthill is frequently rebuilt, that's the way of wikipedia. |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 12:23:03 PM
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Hi Shanti, Jim and All:
Guy followed up on the Hunter/East-West, Calif lead. Not sure where that one is right now. Keep in mind that most areas have a local new age and/or yoga publication, and one way or other they can hear about AYP -- hint, hint... 
Someone put AYP on Wikipedia a month or two ago and it got shot down, supposedly because it was too commercial with books on it. What??? Tolle and others have books on their sites. AYP does not sell anything directly on the site, not to mention the more than 300 free lessons on practices there, plus this terrific forum.
So, the question is, who is opposed to AYP on Wikipedia? Could it be the sectarians?
A multi-person effort on Wikipedia, as suggested by Jim, would be wonderful.
Note: For a few ideas, see Trip's fine work on Zaadz at: http://ayp.zaadz.com
Thanks for bringing Wikipedia up, Cosmic. It is an important one.
The guru is in you.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 12:46:57 PM
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| i know. my friend from long ago, lon milo duquette has an entry and advertises all his books about crowley and the OTO. So what's the difference? Maybe if someone has the time to analyze (anal-ize) it they could tell. |
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 3:32:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Someone put AYP on Wikipedia a month or two ago and it got shot down, supposedly because it was too commercial with books on it.
Really? That's interesting.... was their complaint that the Wikipedia entry was too commercial, or that the AYP site was? Because if it's the former, it could probably be re-written in a way that mentions the books without pushing them. This puzzles me because I know that many books and authors are on Wikipedia....
Yogani, do you happen to have the text of the AYP entry on Wikipedia? Reading it might shed some light on why it was removed...
In the meantime, I'll start researching Wikipedia so we can have an idea how to proceed... I don't see how AYP is any different (from an informational standpoint) than say, BKS Iyengar, SRF, etc. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 4:11:33 PM
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i looked at lon milo duquette's entry again. The books are only mentioned at the end as a "bibliography". In the body it just says he wrote so many books, and they're on these subjects. Here's what he does with his life. Here's what makes him unique. That sort of thing.
maybe that's what we need for Yogani. |
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will.iam
23 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 6:56:38 PM
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I put a link to AYP on Wikipedia about a month ago, as far as I know its still there. I did not try to create an AYP page, that did occur to me, but I dont have the time right now. Links should be added to yoga, pranayama, etc pages on wikipedia.
The link was at first shot down b/c the maintainer said it was a commercial site, but I convinved him it was not, then I added it again and...it looks like its gone, along with the entire "external links" section.
It seems like putting AYP on the Wikipedia would provide good exposure.
This will also pass. |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 7:01:43 PM
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Hi All:
Here was the previous attempt with AYP on Wikipedia -- see will.iam's June 12th post at http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....ms=wikipedia
It seems what AYP is, how it works, and how people can use it would be of interest to many, without mention of the books. Whoever had a problem with the book links on the website obviously didn't look far enough to find that there is a huge amount of free instructional material there. Isn't it odd? It used to be that most people had a hard time seeing the books because of the free lessons. Now they can't see the free lessons because of the books! 
As for my background, the most that is available on this is in the first press release last year -- http://www.aypsite.org/pressrelease1.html
You are welcome to use content from there.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
PS -- Ah, there you are will.iam! Thanks for chiming in.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 8:40:33 PM
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Before an entry is removed on wiki, there is a discussion on the 'talk page' for the entry. The talk page can probably be found -- I doubt the y delete it, and maybe the original page can be found.
Do we have any volunteers who want to look into this? Anyone interested in entering the wiki world?
Wiki does not want to be a promotional site, it's an encyclopedia, and just as with AYP, people submitting articles have to conform to the intention of the site at large. Why could Tolle's books be put up and others? Just because whoever put the article up either had conformed by luck in the beginning, or learned to conform.
So what I am saying is that an article can surely be put up about AYP/Yogani, but the relevant game just has to be played. This will include learning what the rules are, learning how to play by them, and a certain amount of persuasion/advocacy of the article if necessary on the 'talk page'.
In the article, you need to keep to the facts and avoid straying into what they call POV, or point-of-view or bias. If you insist on your POV, you may ultimately have a big warning put on the article that its 'neutrality is disputed', and eventually they will remove it.
If someone uses this to inform about AYP/Yogani, they will be able to do so, but if they cross a line and try to make it overly-promotional, it will backfire.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jul 04 2006 8:54:26 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 10:27:23 PM
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Simple answer. Just don't make it real promotional. Create and entry and explain the practice. Make it interesting and informative, rather than a starry eyed come-on/endorsement. And then, at bottom, put links and info on books and the site and the forum.
The wikipedians don't appreciate people coming around and erecting billboards. it's not what they're about (just like we don't appreciate people using us as a marketing billboard). They do like good info, though. So let's give them info. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 11:37:43 PM
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how about this: Put up information about Yogani and AYP being non profit, mention free lessons and don't put any information whatsover about things that can be purchased.
Then later on add that information. Wiki is always up for additional information. |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2006 : 11:09:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
how about this: Put up information about Yogani and AYP being non profit, mention free lessons and don't put any information whatsover about things that can be purchased.
Then later on add that information. Wiki is always up for additional information.
Hi Ether:
Just to be clear, AYP is not a non-profit organization. It isn't an organization at all. It is just an old guy writing like crazy  ... and all of you wonderful practitioners ...
Even so, there is no profit -- not even close. Maybe in a few more years book sales will pay the bills. The crazy writer certainly hopes so. There will be no regrets about profit if and when there is any. And I expect the writing will go on as long as the brain and fingers are working ... though a vacation certainly wouldn't hurt.
For whatever it is worth... 
The guru is in you.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2006 : 11:38:25 AM
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David Said: Do we have any volunteers who want to look into this? Anyone interested in entering the wiki world?
If there are no volunteers, I will do it. But I will need help to get started.. any volunteers there????? |
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2006 : 12:44:03 AM
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Well Shanti, I volunteer . Lately, I've been busy and haven't been online much... but my intention is to start writing the Wikipedia article, or at least break it down into headings/divisions that more skilled writers than myself could elaborate on. Hell, I'll do it now...
Here are some possible headers, each of which would have a body of text (not necessarily in this order):
1.) Description - (description of what AYP is)
2.) History - (brief history of AYP)
3.) Founder - (short biography of Yogani - could link to a separate article on Yogani)
4.) Claims - (what AYP claims the results of practices are, or testimonials)
5.) Teachings - (a list or description of the main teachings)
6.) Key concepts - (the things we want to emphasize about AYP)
--6a.) The guru is in you - (what the phrase means and its relevance)
--6b.) Self-pacing - (what it is and its relevance)
--6c.) Scenery - (what it means in this context)
--6d.) Paying it forward - (what it means in this context)
--6e.) Being active in daily life - (what it means in this context)
--6f.) Horizontal teaching - (the learning and support the forums bring)
7.) Criticisms - (if there are any - adding this would help negate claims of non-neutrality/bias)
This is just off the top of my head.... if there's anything I missed, please speak up. Any volunteers for the writing? I'll check out the links Yogani posted and start writing the description based on that, in this coming week... |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2006 : 01:58:25 AM
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Thanks Cosmic. Phew!! that's a load off my head
Your headers are awesome... sound great.
If there is anything I can do to help let me know... if you need me to collect info for you, or write some stuff to cover a couple of your headers.. just let me know.
Thanks again Cosmic.
-Shweta. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2006 : 12:30:09 PM
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Yes thanks Cosmic.
I wanted to do something with this and didn't have time.
If you want help from anyone, just post the headers you want help with here, and maybe we can answer by picking one of them and filling it with something. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2006 : 2:28:00 PM
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Hi Cosmic,
Now I am wondering...
"Cosmic said: Well Shanti, I volunteer"
Are you replying to David's request ..
"Do we have any volunteers who want to look into this? Anyone interested in entering the wiki world?"
Or are you replying to my request:
"If there are no volunteers, I will do it. But I will need help to get started.. any volunteers there?????"
I appreciate you volunteering for either.. just need to know if you are doing the writing.. or you will help me if I do the writing... |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2006 : 7:52:58 PM
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Since Wikipedia is, to its core, a collaborative enterprise, the way to do this is by someone throwing something up over there, and others nibbling away at it insofar as they have time/interest.
In other words, do it there, rather than here. No need to discuss it, just build it organically.
And never be afraid to undo or change the words and work of others over there. That's what Wikipedia is about. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2006 : 8:11:09 PM
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quote:
cosmic_troll said:
5.) Teachings - (a list or description of the main teachings)
6.) Key concepts - (the things we want to emphasize about AYP)
--6a.) The guru is in you - (what the phrase means and its relevance)
--6b.) Self-pacing - (what it is and its relevance)
--6c.) Scenery - (what it means in this context)
--6d.) Paying it forward - (what it means in this context)
--6e.) Being active in daily life - (what it means in this context)
--6f.) Horizontal teaching - (the learning and support the forums bring)
I would suggest just writing a very brief paragraph about the main teachings (5). For the first cut at least, write an article about AYP, not an article detailing the teachings of AYP. The latter is just far too ambitious; and links to the AYP site serve the purpose better.
Compare with articles on Eckhart Tolle, Krishnamurti ....
There, isn't that easier?
Now Shanti, I've helped you.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jul 09 2006 8:13:33 PM |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2006 : 10:32:11 PM
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Hi Folks,
Just saw this link (I've been irregular here for the past 15 days or so). So what happened in the end? Did you Cosmic, or Shanti write a para? |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2006 : 10:31:31 AM
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Once someone gets the article started, be sure to tell us about it. Then I'd be happy to go in and edit it.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2006 : 12:30:29 PM
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Hi Cosmic,
I have started writing stuff on the topics you have listed above. So if you are going to do some writing, please do let me know.. that way we will not be working on the same topics. I have started from top down.. maybe you can start from below and move up the list.
Thanks for the headers.. it is much easier gathering info this way.
-Shweta |
Edited by - Shanti on Jul 11 2006 12:31:22 PM |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2006 : 1:48:51 PM
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Hi All:
Off-forum efforts have led to one AYP article being successfully launched on Wikipedia, and a second one that is being worked on in communication with the Wiki editors and may or may not make it (the first "learning curve" effort -- deemed too promotional in present form).
Launched: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogani
Questionable: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanc...es_%28AYP%29
Many thanks to all who have been contributing ideas and effort!
The guru is in you.
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2006 : 02:11:32 AM
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Hi all,
I don't think there is anyone opposing AYP on purpose in Wiki. The system is fair. And AYP will get a lot of opportunities when it grow more. At the moment, the main reasons why the article is questionable are the followings:
1. The term "Advanced Yoga Practices" isn't really a specific-enough term, although the short form "AYP" may be. The term "Advanced Yoga Practices" can be (and is frequently) used in a much more general way. Think about this: if I setup a website and upload a collection of the greatest pieces of music of mankind, and have 10,000 members and 20,000 visits per day, and I call my website (or my collection) the "Greatest Music of Mankind", what is the chance of being accepted in Wiki?
Thoughts: Not a suggestion, but the situation may be different if Yogani had chosen a more fancy and special name for his system. But it's just good for getting an entries in Wiki, nothing else. The plain name AYP is less "Secterian", of course.
2. The first obstruction is not something unchangeable. Unfortunately the more important factor is not very much about the quality of the teaching, just as my "Greatest Music of Mankind" will not be accepted not because of my choice of music. It's about its influence(importance criteria as written in its policy.) Something very difficult to measure, but with followers/readers as many as Iyengar, Tolle; you are bound to have some influence in the world, and bound to have an entry even if you don't want one.
Thoughts: the second point is more important than the first. So if they delete the current articles, do something else to promote AYP and articles/links will come automatically as AYP grows.
I don't think it's so much about being commercial, although you can't even have the slightest sign of advertising...... They just worry that if you are not well-known to start with, you may have some other purposes in your mind when you posts an article. That's understandable, given that AYP is not currently known to most people.
3. In the case of spiritual teachings, they are even more cautious against any possible cults that may wants to make use of the openness of Wiki to preach. OKOK, AYP is non-sectarian. But is it some commonly accepted knowledge? And are there any cults who would admit that they are sectarian? From the outside, all teachings are more or less the same until they become well-known (and so well-tested) enough.
Don't know if this is true: I've heard that Wiki has tightened its policy on new articles. Although it means a more difficult entry, it also means the articles are more valuable and credible for all readers around the world once they're accepted. Isn't that a nice fact that AYP don't have to compete with most small, sectarian approaches?
Alvin |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on Jul 20 2006 02:36:30 AM |
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