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littleking2
USA
6 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 22 2013 : 1:17:06 PM
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I have been meditating on an off for four years.
When I am not meditating, I am more sociable, likable, outgoing and confident. When I am meditating, I am withdrawn, passive, spacey and irritable to the point of rage (which I then internalize). Yes, I am giving myself plenty of rest afterwards.
I would like to continue my practice, but why should I? It kills all my momentum to the point where I just want to sit in my apartment - a perfect recipe for depression.
I suppose I see some benefits, but who can really be sure? Maybe "keep going" means stopping indefinitely. I'm close to it. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2013 : 2:37:25 PM
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Hi Littleking2
Meditation is not for everyone. If you are happy without meditating then why not stop? Do the things you like and enjoy and lead a happy life.
Christi |
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littleking2
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2013 : 2:57:50 PM
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| I thought meditation was for everyone? |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2013 : 3:26:37 PM
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dear littelking2
what kind of meditation are you doing? DM? for how many minutes? |
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littleking2
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2013 : 3:36:14 PM
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spinal breathing for 10
meditation with mantra for 20
rest for 5-10
i can see benefits at times, but mostly personal benefits. nothing that improves my interaction with other people |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2013 : 3:42:18 PM
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are you engaging enough in grounding activities?
or you can consider self pacing ie reducing the length of yr practices |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2013 : 4:06:11 PM
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Hi littleking,
quote:
Originally posted by littleking2
I thought meditation was for everyone?
Not at all. Some people just are not suited to meditation. They are quite happy doing other things.
Why do you want to practice yoga? What do you want to get from it?
Christi |
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littleking2
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2013 : 4:33:40 PM
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| to shed what is false and find the true self |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2013 : 4:42:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by littleking2
to shed what is false and find the true self
Hi Littleking,
Ah, in that case you will have to continue with your yoga practice. Not much else will do the trick when it comes to those things.
The symptoms you describe are symptoms of energetic overload: becoming irritable, angry, insular, spacey, withdrawn etc.
Maheswari is right, the solution is to do two things: firstly to cut back on the amount of time you are spending on each practice, and secondly to engage in more grounding activities. When you are not doing spiritual practices make sure you get out and engage with others.
These things are covered in lesson 69.
Also drink plenty of water and avoid sex as it will stimulate the flows of energy in your body.
Christi
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2013 : 6:03:44 PM
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p.s.
Welcome to the forum.  |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2013 : 6:52:57 PM
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Hi littleking2, and welcome aboard.
What kind of meditation have you been doing? How often and how long per session? These factors can make a big difference in the experience.
In AYP, we use a specific form of mantra meditation and a specific practice schedule. The AYP approach also includes prudent self-pacing and grounding as needed (very important), as mentioned by Maheswari and Christi.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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littleking2
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2013 : 8:49:54 PM
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this site was my intro to meditation and really the only method i follow. 10 min pranayama, 20 min meditation, 5 min rest. i haven't gone much further into the guide because i have never felt the urge.
there have been times where i have gone a month or so with religious devotion and then i'll miss one, and i won't meditate again for a month. and then i'll meditate a few times a week for a while. there has been no consistency.
but i don't necessarily want consistency because i enjoy myself more with other people when i'm not meditating regularly. i feel so self involved when i'm on the schedule. my confidence disappears. |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2013 : 10:16:30 PM
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Hi littleking2 and welcome to the forum!
If meditation and pranayama isn't working well for you at this time...I would start with Yama niyama asana...I 've been doing yoga on and off for over 40 years and am still trying to master these "beginner" steps. |
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apatride
New Caledonia
94 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 12:02:13 AM
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Maybe you're over sensitive and cutting back A LOT on your practice, say 5 min DM (and only DM) twice a day could help? Does 5 min DM leaves you that bad? I have some heavy head pressures sometimes (my practice is currently 3 min spinal breath + 20 min DM) and I don't hesitate to cut on practices a few days when I feel overloading is coming. Even 5 min DM twice a day does its work (although it is sometimes hard to believe and kind of frustrating for bakhti).
Let us know if you find the right amount of practice that suits you. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 04:54:45 AM
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Hi Littleking,
You may want to have a read of this lesson:
Suggestions for Over-Sensitive Meditators
One of the suggestions given is to switch to using the breath as a meditation object for a while. You could also try leaving Spinal Breathing Pranayama out altogether for a few weeks or months.
The most important thing is to find a stable practice that is going to work for you over the long term. If you find a simplified level of practice that leaves you better able to function fully in life, then stick with that and you can always vamp it up a notch after a while when you see that it is working.
In my own practice I used breath meditation only for many years and loved it. I experienced none of the side effects that you are getting. Later on I was able to begin working with mantras, but even then I had to be careful and not use them every day.
Christi |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 08:28:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by littleking2
to shed what is false and find the true self
Find the true self first by accepting what you regard as false. Go through your self and not around. You are what you are in all your moods and varieties. Like a flower opening to the Sun or dying off in the cold, you are no less or more than that which you are.
Trying to be something else is where the problem begins. A turning in to frustration and anger is natural when a resolution cannot be found. You cannot be something apart from that which you are.
The more focused you become on trying to solve the unsolvable, the more angry and frustrated you will become. With nowhere for the energy of desire to go it becomes all consuming and can lead to depression.
It is better to treat this energy by distracting its focus using grounding activities. Try to spend more time on accepting your own rich diversity, welcome it, see beyond the flower by really seeing the flower, look deeper and you will see that you are all of these things and yet none of them. A centre from which everything blossoms and grows and all these things are just facets of the same whole.
Sometimes the frustration and energy will take you to that reasoning naturally. Water always finds its ways through the smallest of cracks after all and eventually becomes a flowing river. Sometimes it just needs a gentle pointing to realise that you are never far from that river. |
Edited by - karl on Mar 23 2013 08:32:49 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 12:00:53 PM
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Hi LittleKing and welcome to the AYP Forums...
quote:
Originally posted by littleking2
i don't necessarily want consistency because i enjoy myself more with other people when i'm not meditating regularly. i feel so self involved when i'm on the schedule. my confidence disappears.
I'm going to go somewhat against the grain here by disagreeing with Christi in his saying that without meditation and yoga practices there is no hope of attaining your goal of "shed(ding) what is false and find(ing) the true self." I have met several people who know the "true self" (IMO) and have never 'meditated' before. Is this common? Likely not. Is it common to come to know "the true self" through consistent, long term, well paced AYP practices... I would say yes. Does that mean *you* have to use AYP in order to "find the true self"? No. Does that mean you *should* use AYP in order to "find the true self"? Not necessarily.
Personally, I can only do a little bit of AYP style meditation (now) before the negatives start to outweigh the positives. For me, and for several others I know, there is an increasingly fine line with how much meditation can be tolerated. Every single person I know who has gotten to this point however, has spent several years using the AYP practices twice daily prior to this, several of whom were using other meditation practices for up to a couple of decades prior to AYP. What has come to be known as true for me in this regards is that meditation can only happen when it happens now. If "I" set out with the intention to meditate, it is quickly seen that there is "someone" still being believed in that feels a need to change things from how they currently are. Once this is seen, it is immediately known that there is no one actually here, that the "self" who wants to meditate doesn't actually exist, and that there is a belief here that needs to be investigated into. Does this mean I never meditate? No. I still meditate (basically) regularly (approx once, every other day). But meditation "comes to me" not "me going to meditation" now. Even just today in my meditation session I realized that the timer is no longer in control of meditation times (as it once was). Now, when meditation happens, it ends when it ends.... there is always a "cue" and at this point, I literally cannot meditate past that cue. I can try, but it literally isn't possible... I can't force the thought of the mantra... it just won't come anymore.
The body/mind (and Life itself!!) knows exactly what it needs to "wake up"... it *wants* to wake up. It is only our resisting that keeps it from happening in this moment. That said though, those who "wake up" in an instant (from major suffering to complete freedom, one moment to the next) all say (or at least all that I have talked to or read about) that this is the hardest and most difficult way to wake up. A gradual awakening is much easier to integrate into daily living than a radical jump into freedom (or at least that is what seems logical and is implied by many who have woken up). So simply "letting go of all resistance" is not a path I would recommend to anyone.
All that said, everyone I know that has stuck with AYP and found major life changing effects from it knew right away, as soon as AYP was found, that this approach resonated with them. If it doesn't resonate with you, I suggest you try something else. Is AYP required to know the true self? No. Is meditation required to know the true self? IMO, no. But, something has to happen in order to know "Self." How that "something" manifests is individual. No one can tell you what will work for you... they can only tell you what worked, or didn't, for them. Find an approach that feels right to you (aka "follow your heart voice") and stick with it until it doesn't feel right anymore. There is really nothing you can do to keep yourself asleep... you are already waking up... don't worry too much and enjoy the ride.
Love!
Carson 
P.S. Editted for clarity |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 3:09:08 PM
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Hi Carson,
quote:
I'm going to go somewhat against the grain here by disagreeing with Christi in his saying that without meditation and yoga practices there is no hope of attaining your goal of "shed(ding) what is false and find(ing) the true self." I have met several people who know the "true self" (IMO) and have never meditated before.
Yes, these cases do come up from time to time. In my own experience when these cases are looked into more closely I find that usually one of two things turn out to be the case:
1) The person turns out to not actually be enlightened, but to simply believe they are. In this case there is often some level of mental realization only combined with a mistaken view of what enlightenment actually is.
2) It turns out that the person in question actually did practice meditation for many years but subsequently denied it, and did not realize the connection with their awakening.
There is a third possible scenario which can happen where a chronic illness, or a blow to the coccyx or top of the head led to the awakening of kundalini with such force that it rose to the crown chakra and stabilized there. This latter case tends to be the one where a lot of pain was involved. Byron Katie would be an example of the latter kind of awakening.
But in terms of what someone can actually do if they want to dispel ignorance and realize the true Self, it still only leaves yoga and meditation.
Christi |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 4:07:36 PM
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Hi Christi,
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
1) The person turns out to not actually be enlightened, but to simply believe they are. In this case there is often some level of mental realization only combined with a mistaken view of what enlightenment actually is.
From my perspective, knowing the "true self" is not "enlightenment." In this case I'm just talking about knowing the "true self".... I can't speak about enlightenment as I have not attained it.
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
2) It turns out that the person in question actually did practice meditation for many years but subsequently denied it, and did not realize the connection with their awakening.
I know of at least a few people who I would conclude know their "true self" and who have never practiced anything that could even be loosely called meditation. At least not in this lifetime. None of these people would call themselves "enlightened," but to me, that can be taken as a sign of true knowing, not the inverse. 
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
There is a third possible scenario which can happen where a chronic illness, or a blow to the coccyx or top of the head led to the awakening of kundalini with such force that it rose to the crown chakra and stabilized there. This latter case tends to be the one where a lot of pain was involved. Byron Katie would be an example of the latter kind of awakening.
I think there are many other possible scenarios. As many as you could possibly imagine. Putting "enlightenment" (however you define it) in a box, saying it can only be achieved by "these specific means," is to deny the truth that anything is possible.
Love,
Carson |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 4:28:05 PM
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Hi Carson,
quote:
I think there are many other possible scenarios. As many as you could possibly imagine. Putting "enlightenment" (however you define it) in a box, saying it can only be achieved by "these specific means," is to deny the truth that anything is possible.
Well, yoga is the specific means for the realization of enlightenment. Enlightenment is union with the Divine, and that is what yoga means (as I am sure you know). So it is the specific tool in the same way that a piano is the specific tool for playing Mozart's piano concertos.
quote:
From my perspective, knowing the "true self" is not "enlightenment." In this case I'm just talking about knowing the "true self".... I can't speak about enlightenment as I have not attained it.
What do you mean by "knowing the true self"? (From your unenlightened perspective )
And don't forget- you might actually be enlightened. As you say, anything is possible. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 4:54:34 PM
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Hi Christi,
Yes, I'm aware of what yoga means and what the classical definition of enlightenment is... but we (humans) can play semantics all day. As you know, what we say is not always what is heard... interpretation is tricky thing. "Union with the Divine"??? What does that MEAN? What does that FEEL like? What is "Divine/Divinity"?? What is Union? Definitions are always individual and to hold too tightly to a definition is to miss the boat entirely. We are in the realms of the undefinable when speaking of "enlightenment."
Yes, yoga is a means for enlightenment, but I disagree with your analogy. You can play a Mozart piano concerto on guitar with the same result as on a piano; music. It is no different with enlightenment (IMO). Many roads, only one home.
When I'm talking of knowing the "true self" I'm speaking of knowing through experience the reality that there is no "I" and that what you truly are is ..... something I can't name.
Love,
Carson |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 6:23:31 PM
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Hi Carson,
quote:
Yes, yoga is a means for enlightenment, but I disagree with your analogy. You can play a Mozart piano concerto on guitar with the same result as on a piano; music. It is no different with enlightenment (IMO). Many roads, only one home.
O.K. To be more specific.... as I use the word yoga, it is a state of unity and also the means for the realization of that state. The state of unity is the realization of the true self. So no matter how many paths there are that lead to that realization- they are all yoga. It seems you are using the term yoga with a more narrow definition, implying a specific set of practices.
So yes, I don't think we are disagreeing about anything, other than semantics.
Christi |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 6:31:34 PM
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Hi Christi,
Sorry, what (I thought) we were talking about here was whether or not the practice of meditation was the only reliable way to come to know the "true self." I say there are other ways as well. You say there aren't (unless I misunderstand you, which is very possible). Hopefully that simplifies the discussion.
Cheers!
Carson |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 6:53:39 PM
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Hi Carson,
Ah, I see where the confusion lies now. Actually I was saying that yoga is necessary for everyone who wants to shed what is false and to realize the true Self. Then I was clarifying that by saying that yoga is the sum total of all paths which lead to the realization of the true self. In practice, any authentic path will do. Some people may come to that realization by accident, as Byron Katie did, but if you don't, and you want that, then you have to do something about it. That was the point that I was making originally to Littleking2.
I hope that clears things up.
Christi |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 7:07:08 PM
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Hi Christi,
Gotcha.
I think the reason I felt drawn to post in this topic is because I believe that we can sometimes do more harm than good by blanketing all of humanity with a "one-size-fits-all" approach to awakening. In truth, we can't know what is needed in order to wake up. What works for one won't always work for another and what has worked for some could actually be *harmful* for another. So when someone comes here and says that deep meditation is actually making life more difficult, telling them that "you will have to continue with your yoga practice. Not much else will do the trick when it comes to those things" (speaking in regards to coming to know the "true self") is not very good advice, IMO. I felt the need to be a sort of "counter-balance" in this thread in hopes that LittleKing would follow his/her heart in the matter and not just take someone else's advice because they appear to be an authority in one way or another. Not saying that your advice is/was not the correct advice... it may be. Just saying that I believe there needs to be some checks and balances when giving out personal practice advice sometimes. Sorry if I stepped out of line here. 
Love,
Carson |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 7:18:32 PM
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Hi Carson,
No worries.
And it is good to clarify the point that there are many forms of yoga. The way I see it though is that people are drawn to particular forms of yoga for a reason and it is not good to keep switching between one path and another. So if someone is drawn to practising AYP, and they are just having some difficulty managing the energetic side of the practice, then the best advise is to help them bring that into balance so they can continue with their practice. One well... digging deep etc.
Glad we cleared that up. 
Christi |
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Topic |
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Meditation - helping or hurting?
