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illkeepmysol
USA
25 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 17 2013 : 10:16:35 PM
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Hi I had shaktipat from a friend while on some drugs back in 2011 and the energy rose very violently.. but then it stopped..but i dont feel enlightened..so i figure if I dont fully know im enlightened then im not.. so, I've been messing around with trying to raise the kundalini and I had this crazy idea that if I just stopped trying to make myself quiet and just was aware of my thoughts, movements, and evertyhing.. and let them just pass.. somehow someway everything settled into quiet and the kundalini rose again.. it may have been open this whole time.. just it's really subtle and I only feel it when I'm doing nothing (not doing nothing cuz im still forming stretches and mudras) but not trying to do anything and just watching.. am I making any sense?
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Edited by - AYPforum on Mar 17 2013 10:19:38 PM |
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KundaliniTherapist
United Kingdom
26 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2013 : 10:57:09 AM
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Hi Illkeepmysol
nobody who really knows what a kundalini awakening is like would wish it to happen unless they are already supremely happy. Kundalini is not a free ride to enlightenment - it's more like a push into the toughest drug rehabilitation centre you can imagine without a chance to ever getting out of it. Is that what you want?
My own kundalini awakening happened roughly 30 years ago and for certain it has been the greatest blessing in my life. But I can only say that in retrospect. To this day I would be reluctant to say to anybody - try and raise your kundalini. Why? Well, because it's like a tough drug rehabilitation centre - really really hard if you do not 'everything right'. And until you have got 'everything right' there is an awful lot of pain and groping around.
So, my advice is to keep that in mind when deciding what to do about your spiritual practice. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2013 : 1:42:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by KundaliniTherapist
Hi Illkeepmysol
nobody who really knows what a kundalini awakening is like would wish it to happen unless they are already supremely happy. Kundalini is not a free ride to enlightenment - it's more like a push into the toughest drug rehabilitation centre you can imagine without a chance to ever getting out of it. Is that what you want?
My own kundalini awakening happened roughly 30 years ago and for certain it has been the greatest blessing in my life. But I can only say that in retrospect. To this day I would be reluctant to say to anybody - try and raise your kundalini. Why? Well, because it's like a tough drug rehabilitation centre - really really hard if you do not 'everything right'. And until you have got 'everything right' there is an awful lot of pain and groping around.
So, my advice is to keep that in mind when deciding what to do about your spiritual practice.
Hi KT,
I'm sorry to hear that you had such a tough time with the awakening of kundalini and happy to hear that it has smoothed out now. I am concerned though, that you might be painting a bit of a "doom and gloom" scenario of kundalini for others, which could potentially put them off from undertaking one of the most amazing journeys of their life.
My own kundalini awakening certainly doesn't fit with your description. There were a couple of rough days, but apart from that it has been a very beautiful and increasingly ecstatic journey.
I work with people on a daily basis who are going through kundalini awakenings and I would say that about 98% of them are having the same experience- a gradual rise into a fully ecstatic state. Some are in the early stages of awakening whilst others are much further on with their journey. The other 2% that are having problems are those that came to me after awakening kundalini either using drugs, or through a spiritual practice that was too aggressive such as intensive breath retention, intensive bastrika (bellows breath) or through crown chakra practices.
When kundalini is awakened using safe yoga practices combined with effective grounding and prudent self-pacing, there are usually few or no problems at all. The essential thing is to purify the body first in a safe manner before kundalini is awakened, and once awakened, to gently raise it to the level of ajna chakra, before going to the crown. AYP yoga works using these methods and is why it is such a safe and effective practice. Spinal Breathing Pranayama is the key practice in this.
Of course there will always be those who refuse to pace their practice at a safe level, or don't notice the warning signs, but they are relatively few in my experience, and once picked up on, can be easily stabilized to an effective and safe level of practice.
Christi |
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illkeepmysol
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2013 : 2:57:04 PM
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| umm thanks for the replies guys..but you didn't really answer my question.. does it make sense for the kundalini to rise when all I do is sit in a quiet setting and be watchfully aware? Because I started doing headstands and I also noticed I was doing pranayamas as well when I was just aware.. I've been meditating for a year now, as well as practicing some hatha yoga while I was in jail.. so I've already decided I want to surrender to God.. ya know to die so I can live.. I do believe everything happens for a reason and I'm not going to ignore the fact that all this has happened in my life. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2013 : 3:18:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by illkeepmysol
umm thanks for the replies guys..but you didn't really answer my question.. does it make sense for the kundalini to rise when all I do is sit in a quiet setting and be watchfully aware? Because I started doing headstands and I also noticed I was doing pranayamas as well when I was just aware.. I've been meditating for a year now, as well as practicing some hatha yoga while I was in jail.. so I've already decided I want to surrender to God.. ya know to die so I can live.. I do believe everything happens for a reason and I'm not going to ignore the fact that all this has happened in my life.
Hi illkeepmysol,
Yes, it makes sense that you will feel the energy flows when you are sitting quiet and watchfully aware. Paying attention and being focused in the moment is an excellent meditation practice. The energy naturally flows to the issues/obstructions where it is needed.
Best wishes, Jeff |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2013 : 3:26:37 PM
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Hi illkeepmysol:
Yes, all of those things can stimulate kundalini. But as KT and Christi said, you will do best with it by keeping the horse in front of the cart.
Kundalini is not the primary engine of enlightenment. The cultivation of abiding inner silence (transcendent witness) is. This is why the AYP system begins with deep meditation, and kundalini is addressed afterwards with spinal breathing pranayama and other practices, once there is a stable daily routine of deep meditation in place.
Admittedly, kundalini, or energy movements, visions, feelings, sensations, etc can be aroused to one degree or another with meditation alone, but those experiences should not become the goal. Better to meditate utilizing a reliable procedure and not get to hung up on the experiences (scenery). They are symptoms of purification and opening. We can enjoy such experiences (while prudently mitigating the excesses that can occur), but we have a much bigger fish to catch.
As a great man once said: "Seek first the kingdom of heaven, and everything else will be added to you."
Abiding inner silence is the kingdom of heaven, unshaken by anything in the realm of time and space. Kundalini has to do with the "everything else." Good stuff, but keeping things is the right order is important, or it could become a rough ride leading to long diversions for recovery.
You might want to check out the AYP online lessons from the beginning to see how we approach the entire process of human spiritual transformation for good progress with safety. Seems to be working out well for many. It's your call, of course. The only pledge we encourage here is the one you choose to make to yourself and your chosen path, whatever it may be. The AYP open resources can be used as much or as little as desired.
I admire you for the commitment you are making after going through some hard knocks in life. Wishing you all the best on your spiritual path. Practice wisely, and enjoy!
The guru is in you.
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illkeepmysol
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2013 : 3:54:23 PM
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Thanks for the replies guys and Jeff
@yogani. doesn't inner silence basically mean being aware?.. as in just watching and not adding to thoughts or taking away.. as taking away from thought would just be a thought as well.. so inner silence is really a symptom of being aware.. not the other way around.. and I do believe the purification process is the goal.. |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2013 : 4:22:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by illkeepmysol
Thanks for the replies guys and Jeff
@yogani. doesn't inner silence basically mean being aware?.. as in just watching and not adding to thoughts or taking away.. as taking away from thought would just be a thought as well.. so inner silence is really a symptom of being aware.. not the other way around.. and I do believe the purification process is the goal..
Awareness can be viewed as an absolute that anyone can express fully in each moment simply by "being that." Some teachings take that approach -- we address that later in the lessons. For most people, theory is one thing, and practice is something else. Whatever produces lasting results is what a savvy seeker will do.
In reality, our awareness on this earth plane is a function of the vehicle it is being reflected through, and there are many degrees of this, which is what spiritual practices and yoga are about -- the purification and opening of the vehicle of consciousness, this body/mind.
Along with that comes a much greater capacity for the expression of kundalini. It is much easier to traverse the kundalini journey by cultivating abiding inner silence as the foundation than by approaching it the other way around. Sometimes there isn't a choice, if there is a big kundalini awaking that happens spontaneously and/or from overdoing for a long time with energy practices. That is more problematic. But if we have a choice, much better to put in a foundation of abiding inner silence. That is done with an effective long term daily routine of meditation. By any method it is a gradual process. It is not simply about being aware in our present condition, and that's it. There is much more to it than that. Otherwise, there would be no issues about kundalini for anyone, because awareness and kundalini go together.
Neurobiologically, as we go from being a 100 watt bulb to a 1000 watt bulb by applying effective practices over time, both awareness and kundalini will be greatly expanded (without the difficulties of a premature awakening), and eventually these two merge in union, leading to an unending outpouring of divine love and life lived as "stillness in action," which is unity. That is what the journey of yoga is about.
It's not something we can just wake up one morning and decide to live fully on any given day, as nice as that would be. But we can decide to take the journey, and keep at it for as long as it takes. That is doable. There are many degrees of fulfillment we will experience along the way -- some clear milestones we can take note of, and continue on.
The guru is in you.
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KundaliniTherapist
United Kingdom
26 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2013 : 6:18:05 PM
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Hi Christi
sorry if I appear to paint doom and gloom - I don't mean it that way. I personally do not mind a tough drug rehabilitation centre - I am totally committed to this path and want to do what it takes. But does everyone want to do this who is seeking the kundalini experience?
Surely kundalini is not only the bliss experience - this is only the sweet side. The other side is that our ego is cut to size again and again until we have mended our egotistical and ignorant ways. Life does that to us anyway and kundalini intensifies this process. Is that not your experience?
What I want to say is this: experiencing bliss in the meditation is the easy bit (still hard for many though) but the really hard bit is integrate this experience into daily life and to be 'in the world' with your bliss-consciousness and have to completely change and undo how you relate to others.
Withdrawing and living like a hermit is one solution and has its own challenges. But staying in the humdrum of the world in your over-sensitized state of mind surely throws up numerous problems as well. Did you always find that easy?
By the way, my invitation for tea still stands - did you get my email?
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Edited by - KundaliniTherapist on Mar 18 2013 6:29:30 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2013 : 06:28:26 AM
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quote:
Hi Christi
sorry if I appear to paint doom and gloom - I don't mean it that way. I personally do not mind a tough drug rehabilitation centre - I am totally committed to this path and want to do what it takes. But does everyone want to do this who is seeking the kundalini experience?
Surely kundalini is not only the bliss experience - this is only the sweet side. The other side is that our ego is cut to size again and again until we have mended our egotistical and ignorant ways. Life does that to us anyway and kundalini intensifies this process. Is that not your experience?
What I want to say is this: experiencing bliss in the meditation is the easy bit (still hard for many though) but the really hard bit is integrate this experience into daily life and to be 'in the world' with your bliss-consciousness and have to completely change and undo how you relate to others.
Withdrawing and living like a hermit is one solution and has its own challenges. But staying in the humdrum of the world in your over-sensitized state of mind surely throws up numerous problems as well. Did you always find that easy?
Hi KT,
I think there are a number of different aspects to this. The first is the one that Yogani mentions in his post above: The cultivation of the witness. It is not so much the cultivation of bliss in daily meditation, as the cultivation of the witness/ inner silence in daily living which makes the journey of kundalini a smooth one. Once we are established in the witness, the changes that kundalini bring about are seen, but not attached to, so there is no pain or suffering involved. Through the practices of meditation and self-inquiry I became established in the witness early on before the cultivation of kundalini.
The second aspect is that of self-pacing. If things become uncomfortable on the enegetic journey, we can simply cut back on the spiritual practices we are doing until we reach a level where they are comfortable. This is a bit of a balancing act which becomes easier as time goes on.
The third aspect is that of grounding. Uncomfortable levels of energy can be grounded out as I am sure you know, through gentle exercise, walking, gardening etc.
The fourth aspect is awakening kundalini along the safe passageway of the sushumna nadi between the root and the ajna chakra, rather than through the brahma nadi between root and crown. The latter is a very unstable pathway and when people come to me with a difficult kundalini story, I often find that they have used the root to crown pathway for their awakening, consciously or unconsciously.
Some of this is covered in lesson 69
So by combining those techniques I have avoided any uncomfortable situations with kundalini energy from arising. The few days that I did have problems were days on which I deliberately pushed my practices to excess to see what would happen. In other words I did more than I was advised to do by my teachers, just to see if they were right. They were  .
Those techniques to bring about a safe and comfortable awakening of kundalini are the ones that I teach my students, and also the ones taught in the main lessons on this website. It is, as I mentioned above, a gradual rise into a state of ecstasy.
The other thing I find is, that when people are on a path of awakening which involves pain, it can be a longer journey overall. People have to keep taking breaks from their spiritual practice to recover from uncomfortable situations and this can slow down the progress that they are making on the path towards freedom. For that reason alone I don't recommend it, aside from the obvious fact that I don't like to see anyone suffer.
All the best
Christi
p.s. yes, got your email and replied- I'll send it again in case you didn't get it. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2013 : 06:58:17 AM
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Hi Illkeepmysol,
I don't really have anything to add to what Yogani has written above in terms of your initial question. Just wanted to say welcome to the forum. 
Christi |
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KundaliniTherapist
United Kingdom
26 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2013 : 07:18:24 AM
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Thanks, Christi, for this very thoughtful answer. I think I will start a new threat about relating to the others and world while going a kundalini experience as not to hijack Illkeepmysols threat.
Hi Illkeepmysol
I think where Christi and I agree is that previous use of drugs makes you more likely to experience problems during kundalini. That is why I used the comparison of a drug rehabilitation centre - all tendencies that let to using drugs in the first place will come under scrutiny when you are in the kundalini process together with any damage that you may have done to your nervous system while using.
So, that's why I advice to be extra careful and agree with Yogani - focus more on witness consciousness (and maybe devotional practices) until you feel your life is nicely under control.
I wish you the best of luck |
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illkeepmysol
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2013 : 4:05:45 PM
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| Well thanks for the replies and the welcomings :).. I've had a spiritual teacher initially.. the one who gave me shaktipat.. we're both very young and got in some trouble in 2012, besides all that I think I'm starting to understand this.. So I can't be truly aware because of the physical limitations of the brain, and perhaps the limitations of the ego?? so by listening to inner silence I myself the ego gets out of the way, then the "witness" part of consciusness steps in and begins to purify? let me know if I'm making sense.. I talked to my friend about this issue I'm having, and he said I'm being dual minded by trying to be aware, that the only thing to do is listen to the silence and let go of one self.. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2013 : 11:16:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by illkeepmysol
Well thanks for the replies and the welcomings :).. I've had a spiritual teacher initially.. the one who gave me shaktipat.. we're both very young and got in some trouble in 2012, besides all that I think I'm starting to understand this.. So I can't be truly aware because of the physical limitations of the brain, and perhaps the limitations of the ego?? so by listening to inner silence I myself the ego gets out of the way, then the "witness" part of consciusness steps in and begins to purify? let me know if I'm making sense.. I talked to my friend about this issue I'm having, and he said I'm being dual minded by trying to be aware, that the only thing to do is listen to the silence and let go of one self..
Hi Illkeepmysol,
What your friend is talking about is something called non-duality teaching. It is fairly high level stuff, and probably not a good idea to try and get your head around at this point. It can lead to a lot of mind-games which can be quite unproductive.
A more useful approach is to develop a strong meditation practice first. In this way you can learn to focus your mind and develop a sense of what inner silence is. Once the mind is silent, it is much easier to understand what non-duality is all about. Inner silence is the same as the witness.
The physical limitations of the brain do not pose any difficulty to the cultivation of awareness so there is no need to worry about that. The letting go part happens naturally once awareness is cultivated and established in silence.
I would recommend that you start here.
Christi |
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illkeepmysol
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 20 2013 : 12:56:21 AM
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| Thank you I have a good sense of inner silence, and it is my understanding that our ego is to die in order to live with God.. I've been practicing just listening and letting go tonight.. honestly it hurts.. I met a yogi named Niko he spoke of a period of depression in many peoples meditation as a phase where they either stop the practice forever or push through it..I do believe this is what I'm going through.. I know what grief is..I'll push through.. any advice guys? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 20 2013 : 06:39:59 AM
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Hi illkeepmysol,
Sitting and just listening is fine. It is a valid spiritual practice and goes by different names in different spiritual traditions. Zazen is one name for it. "Taking the one seat" is another. It is an advanced practice though and the reason it is advanced is because, as you have found out, it can be painful if taken on too early. If something is painful, will we be able to keep it up over the long term? Maybe, or maybe not. If you do find it too difficult there are more simple forms of meditation which are less likely to be painful. Breathing meditation is one, and meditating using a mantra is another. Both will cultivate inner silence in the same way as zazen, but with less potential for mental pain.
On the killing the ego in order to realize God aspect, there are some traditions which take this approach. The idea is that there is an ego inside us, and someone else in there too who can kill it, and once it is dead God will come out of his hiding place and be shining everywhere.
What happens in reality is a bit more subtle. A shift takes place in our normal process of identification. It is a gradual shift which happens over a long time and begins to happen once we have cultivated some degree of inner silence/ witness. Normally we identify ourselves with an idea of who we are, an idea which is made up of streams of thoughts and memories. With the rise of the witness in stillness, we come to see increasingly that we are awareness itself, existing prior to any thought or memory arising in consciousness. This awareness is expansive, peaceful, blissful and radiant. What we once took to be ourselves, a stream of thought patterns, may still exist at times on the surface of this ocean of awareness, but there is no longer any identification with it. So in truth, nothing really dies. There is nothing to be killed and no one to kill it and there never was.
The period of depression you mention is a stage on the path sometimes called "the dark night of the soul" made famous by a Christian called St John of the Cross. It is a stage on the path where we know that we cannot ever go back to our old way of thinking and operating in the world, because we know that it no longer has any true meaning or real fulfilment in it, but we cannot yet fully grasp the nature of Truth or experience the bliss and freedom of the Divine life. I think everyone goes through this to some degree or another, but for some the transition is easier. Establishing a strong foundation in inner silence early on during the path certainly makes this particular stage of the awakening easier to move through.
It sounds like you've got the determination necessary to succeed, so all power to you!
Christi |
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illkeepmysol
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 21 2013 : 1:14:24 PM
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| Thank you for the information, aren't the techniques like futile eventually leading you into circles? Why would something like a technique that comes from the mind free the mind? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 21 2013 : 2:14:29 PM
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Hi Illkeepmysol,
Until there is some inner silence present, nothing will bring us to a place of freedom. As long as we are caught up in the realm of thoughts/ feelings/ memory and the identification with the body, then any direct approach to freedom will just be the mind playing with the mind. A never-ending mental trap.
By using techniques of meditation we can come to a place of inner stillness and silence, standing back, as it were, from the objects of the mind. When we are established in silence, it is then possible to begin the process which leads to emancipation- to enlightenment. That process is the process of self-inquiry.
If you have not done so already I would advise you to read Yogani's book called "Self-inquiry: Dawn of the witness and the end of suffering".
All the best.
Christi |
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Any help with the energy and raising it?
