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pulgasari
Korea
16 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 14 2013 : 06:23:19 AM
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Recently I have been wondering if there is a danger in being a spiritual seeker.
As it seems that if a person is spiritually seeking then they must feel that they are presently insufficiant or lacking in some way.
Often I have spoken to spiritual people who seem to be striving for something other than what they currently are. Seeking for enlightenment or a higher state of being or greater happiness or whatever it may be.
It seems that such seeking must in some ways be driven by an underlying state of discontent.
Many of us have a spiritual practice or read spiritual books and hope to 'make progress' and I was wondering if there is a danger here.
I was wondering if there comes a point where seeking will only take you further away from the 'now' by making you think there is something else or by making you think you can go deeper, reach a higher state or become enlightened or whatever it may be.
Does this idea of 'something else'... 'something more' do more harm than good?
Does there come a point where it only takes us further away from where we want to be? |
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Swan
India
256 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2013 : 07:54:06 AM
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Hi pulgasari,
After reading your post, I realized that I also pondered over such questions at times. Below are the answers I have as of now:
quote:
As it seems that if a person is spiritually seeking then they must feel that they are presently insufficiant or lacking in some way.
Often I have spoken to spiritual people who seem to be striving for something other than what they currently are. Seeking for enlightenment or a higher state of being or greater happiness or whatever it may be.
It seems that such seeking must in some ways be driven by an underlying state of discontent.
Yes, definitely there is feeling of discontent to a degree here – but that is not to be taken negatively. The point is, if I believe that there could be greater happiness that I have not experienced yet, it is only natural to feel discontent and feel a longing for the happiness or state of bliss or whatever someone calls it. Now, not all people know or believe or recognize the potential of attaining a happier state, so they will not feel the discontent. But it is different for people who recognize the possibility and hope to attain such a stage, or spiritual people as you said. They feel the longing and discontent, and this is not very comfortable but it is a highly positive thing. This desire shows us way and opens the doors.
Also, this is discontent feeling is not about and finding certain missing piece that might make you complete. But this is like considering ourselves as seeds, and longing to grow to its full potential.
quote:
Many of us have a spiritual practice or read spiritual books and hope to 'make progress' and I was wondering if there is a danger here.
I was wondering if there comes a point where seeking will only take you further away from the 'now' by making you think there is something else or by making you think you can go deeper, reach a higher state or become enlightened or whatever it may be.
Does this idea of 'something else'... 'something more' do more harm than good?
Does there come a point where it only takes us further away from where we want to be?”
If I have understood your point correctly, then yes there is. If you try to ‘understand’ or ‘solve’ the matter using only your intellect and mind or ego, without surrendering and calming your mind first – you may mess it up big time and fall in the mind-ego traps. However, with the correct attitude and practices, you can calm your mind and grow inner silence, and do well in your path. When you surrender and practice ‘letting go’ and cultivate inner silence, all you are left with is “now” and you might not have to worry anymore about drifting further away. Ultimately it is a matter of making a strong foundation for the spiritual practices, and inner silence is the foundation.
Hope that makes some sense  
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2013 : 09:49:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Swan
Hope that makes some sense
YES!! Makes a whole lot of sense, Swan!! I could feel your sincerity and bhakti palpably within myself as I read your beautiful words.
It is longing and seeking that gets us going (bhakti). But, the seeking can become an addiction, a trap, and can take us further away from being here, from looking within. It is subtle, which is why it can be an issue.. By the time we realize what has happened, we may be deep into that addiction/habit, making it harder to break away from. Inner silence is indeed the foundation. But there is another aspect that is equally important - complete, brutal honesty about ourselves and what we want. Not in a critical, self-deprecating way, but the willingness to see exactly where we are and to keep coming back to the inner core.
Also, in my experience, the seeking goes in cycles. It drops away for periods of time when attention is turned fully inward. Then we are here and now and there is no lack, no seeking elsewhere. There is perfect stillness. Then, for innumerable reasons related to becoming subtly or overtly identified with the ego, the seeking is taken up again..
Nothing is inherently a danger as long as there is a broad and clear understanding of what we want. We will always get what we want, in one way or another.
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2013 : 4:32:59 PM
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To paraphrase Yogani: "At one point, we stop seeking enlightenment and start giving it away."
That's pretty much the trajectory--in a nutshell. For me, when I'm craving ecstatic/trans-dimensional experiences, I've gotten in the habit on asking myself...well, how will that benefit others in my life? I might enjoy the deep trance, but how will it serve others? So, having had a taste of altered states of consciousness, I have to remind myself that the point of climbing the mountain is to come back down and share the love.
If the path of seeking is catalyzed and propelled by a power greater than our small "self", then naturally, that power will lead us to seek ways and states of being to benefit both the individual and the whole.
For instance, my family's backyard has been barren and lacking any plant life, so I have planted a lemon tree, a pineapple plant, and a few other things. Is there danger in seeking to improve the mini-ecosystem of the backyard? Well, I guess it could be overdone...but the point is, the world is in desperate need of love, compassion, and harmony. We're still living in a military state motivated by profit and greed, and young kids are taking guns into schools and mowing their classmates down.
If the rage, anger, divisive ideologies/institutions are not countered by the radiant vibration of altruistic individuals and subcultures, who will bring about the change? God manifests change through human beings. We have a choice in the cosmic show, so why not take advantage of our talents for the purpose of unity, progress, and spiritual evolution.
The biggest lie being told in the media and intellectual circles is that evolution is a phenomenon driven by dominance and the desire to survive at any cost. This is not true. Evolution is driven by cooperation, collaboration, and the genius diversity which makes life thrive.
Desire and seeking don't ever stop if that fuel is directed to an ishta which revolves around global enlightenment--not just personal bliss. Anyway, the only real bliss is That which is shared. Know it, become it, live it.  |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2013 : 9:59:03 PM
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If there is any "danger", it's not in being a spiritual seeker, but in remaining one for life. Some people need to go through that phase of being a seeker, in order to be motivated to practice. But it can also become a kind of egoic spiritual identity that keeps peace and happiness out of reach. This is why I agree with kami that it's good to be honest with yourself and watch your intentions along the way.
Discontent and feeling defective is what brought me here. I wanted enlightenment as a way out of depression and suffering. I hated my life and wanted it to get better. Being a "seeker" was useful in the beginning, but at some point I saw through that trip.
With effective practices like AYP, seeking will eventually drop away. The desire for "something more" calms down and you can enjoy life as it comes. Then there's a deepening of inner silence that doesn't seem to end.
Love |
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Swan
India
256 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2013 : 02:53:46 AM
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Thank you dear Kami
Yes, brutal honesty it is! Sometimes, or mostly, the attachments are so subtle, or we are so deeply into it – we don’t even recognize for long that there is something to be identified, accepted and let go – unless with the cutting edge of brutal honesty. This is like the compass on the spiritual voyage.
Interesting thought about the cycles within the journey! Will watch out for that.
Bodhi Tree - I am totally with you on the evolution theory. I guess the mismatch is only because science could not yet experimentally establish or verify love, prana, or spirit |
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Sonia84
Canada
4 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2013 : 03:36:41 AM
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"Being spiritual but not religious can lead to complacency and self-centeredness," says Martin, an editor at America, a national Catholic magazine based in New York City. "If it's just you and God in your room, and a religious community makes no demands on you, why help the poor?"
and i am agree with this  |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2013 : 12:14:22 PM
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I would amend that statement to say..."being spiritual but not community-oriented"...
There are ways to be of service, to be loving, to be a positive, contributing person to humanity other than affiliation or membership in a religious group. Examples of this abound. |
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Goodway
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2013 : 10:03:04 PM
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There is a great danger in being a spiritual seeker. Ethics are the essential guide to anyone on this type of path, in my very extensive experience.
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2013 : 10:47:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Goodway
There is a great danger in being a spiritual seeker.
Hah! ..danger...I walk on the wild side...I laugh in the face of danger!
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2013 : 12:56:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sonia84
"Being spiritual but not religious can lead to complacency and self-centeredness," says Martin, an editor at America, a national Catholic magazine based in New York City. "If it's just you and God in your room, and a religious community makes no demands on you, why help the poor?"
and i am agree with this
Great thread!
BodhiTree - I'm gonna have to ruffle your hair some more for than beautiful answer.
As to the quote from Sonia. I do not see how being 'forced' by a religious group to donate to the poor or doing so to look good in the eyes of your community help You grow spiritually. But it does help feed the poor!
Sey
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JosephUK
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2013 : 7:33:00 PM
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To be a spiritual seeker is to be unfulfilled in spirit, and yet know there is more.
The danger is always present until enlightenment is achieved, it is a narrow path with steep ravines,and other worrisome things along its route.
you have to become the change you want to see. so if you want to be spiritual then believe in yourself and let the changes happen and you too will feel more fulfilled and yet more devoted to the mysteries of what may lay ahead and thus you will strive to move forward, laying some things to rest for they are not needed and gaining many things often undreamed which will bring great happiness.
but still the danger remains until enlightenment.
joe |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2013 : 12:35:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by pulgasari
Recently I have been wondering if there is a danger in being a spiritual seeker.
As it seems that if a person is spiritually seeking then they must feel that they are presently insufficiant or lacking in some way.
Often I have spoken to spiritual people who seem to be striving for something other than what they currently are. Seeking for enlightenment or a higher state of being or greater happiness or whatever it may be.
It seems that such seeking must in some ways be driven by an underlying state of discontent.
Many of us have a spiritual practice or read spiritual books and hope to 'make progress' and I was wondering if there is a danger here.
I was wondering if there comes a point where seeking will only take you further away from the 'now' by making you think there is something else or by making you think you can go deeper, reach a higher state or become enlightened or whatever it may be.
Does this idea of 'something else'... 'something more' do more harm than good?
Does there come a point where it only takes us further away from where we want to be?
Great question! and some excellent points have been made, above.
I've discussed this issue at some length in my blog, but briefly:
I think it is worth noting that U.G. Krishnamurti flat-out stated that yes, any spiritual "seeking" is inherently bad because it denies the perfection of what we already are! He went so far as to say that yoga and meditative practices are worse than useless and in fact create the very problem they are supposed to solve, by making us think there is a "higher" or "better" state of existence to be achieved. Some teachers today echo this sentiment or a modified version thereof, although many of them nonetheless, ironically, encourage their students to be diligent in their spiritual practice.
Now on the one hand, in the strict ontological sense there is nothing to be achieved and nobody to achieve it, all is One and everything is perfect just the way it is. BUT, on the other hand, the obvious problem is that it sure doesn't look that way from the existential standpoint, and if we are really honest with ourselves, it's simply not true.
Furthermore, U.G.'s assertion has been refuted in the laboratory of life, by the numerous yogis throughout history who have sought, have found, have done the experiment and gotten life-changing results. I know of several people here at AYP who have done so and have found there is, indeed, a better existence possible and that if you practice your yoga consistently it will produce beneficial results on your life. So either we are all lying, or...?!
TKV Desikachar says that it is suffering and the desire for a better life which gives us the initial bhakti, motivating us to seek and undertake our yoga practice. Once on the path there is no real need to continue "seeking," but rather just doing the practice. I recommend practicing not as if, "I have to do this so someday I can become enlightened!" but rather, doing it to experience and enjoy now the enlightenment that is already deep inside, our "natural state." In that state we see that everything is indeed perfect, but we had to do the practice to become aware of it.
I don't think we really need to worry about yoga leading to "complacency" or "self-centeredness" because the more Bliss and Love we feel inside as a result of our practice, the more we will naturally want to share it with the world. It will touch everyone around us! When we are freed up from our own selfish misery we have that much more positive energy to devote to making the world a better place. |
Edited by - Radharani on Mar 26 2013 12:39:02 AM |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2013 : 06:03:59 AM
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Hi
Speaking from my experience the only danger on oneself is oneself
If you ask my ego,it will curse & blame every pain,suffering and loss it has been through since the spiritual seeking started.Ironically,all the pain,all the illusions were all self created to avoid the main thing which I'm longing for...that's is "Allah".
"Allah"! Perfection,compassion,Mercy,Peace,the light,the guide...the giver of All.
You come to a point in life where you say to yourself "Enough!"...I've wandered way far away from my real I.I've gained so much externally...family,fiance,wealth,education...but I'm not happy!I'm way to far from being myself!This is when my spiritual call started!Is it because of discontent?I'd rather say because of an innate knowing that happiness outer/inner is possible.Why compromise for less?
Anger that leads some to hurt themselves and others and even kill,sexual desires that drive the motivation and action of most people,cheating ... lying... for the sake of getting people acceptance & approval.. thinking it's the way to survive...
How is it possible to face these and other challenges without spiritual seeking and a deep honest contemplation within oneself?
In my opinion,No harm in spiritual seeking!It will free you from the cocoon you've built for yourself...The real harm is to never start!
My way of looking at it
Salam |
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Is there a danger in being a spiritual seeker?
