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SparklingDiamond
Australia
227 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 01:40:08 AM
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Hi Everyone:
I have an interesting question, and those advanced AYP'ers may know this.
I know all of us are different, and react differently to different practises, so I am generalizing in this question.
Which is more powerful for spiritual growth/development? Practising Yoga (as in postures, i.e Ashtanga yoga, hatha etc) or practise of Meditation, yes, I mean general meditation????
I am considering becoming a yoga teacher, but was just curious of this difference, between meditation and yoga?
My sister is a yoga teacher, and when I ask her if she meditates, she considers her yoga practise (Ashtanga) as being the same as meditation? But is it ? Can one go as deep in yoga postures, as one who practises sitting meditation????
Maria |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 02:07:21 AM
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well no asanas are not the same as meditation...and meditation is more important than asanas ...asanas is like going to kindergarden it is just a stepping stone to enable the practioner to move
to higher classes at school 
doing only asanas develops only the energy side of the enlightnment equation and totally neglects the other side of this equation ie the necessaty to develop abiding inner silence
that is why you find so many asanas teachers that are overloading cause the tradition that they have been following either insists only on asanas (this is more the western traditions....asanas are cool weird challenging postures ie only a work out) or because those teachers still think that meditation is unneccsary
asanas are a tiny tiny part of yoga and they definitely dont make the practioner a yogi....Yoga has 8 limbs and asanas are only one limb out of those 8
in fact most Yogis naturally stop pracitising asanas all together once the ecstatic conductovity has been awakened and shift more towards meditation,self less service etc.....
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Edited by - maheswari on Feb 07 2013 02:14:08 AM |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 03:11:28 AM
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| For once I must disagree with my dear Maheswari, but ONLY because of the way that "asana" is taught by 99% of teachers today (as she points out). The way we do asana WITH pranayama in Heart of Yoga (a slightly different system than AYP but which has much in common) IS "moving meditation." Now, obviously, when the meditation gets deep enough you will want to be sitting down! So asana is a "preparation" for sitting meditation in that sense. However, HOY would argue that without first doing asana and pranayama correctly you cannot successfully practice meditation. Your sitting meditation will be much deeper and come more naturally after moving and breathing. As Krishnamacharya said, "You cannot MAKE yourself meditate; all you can do is set the right conditions and then meditation will come as a siddhi." Generally the older and/or more advanced yogis don't need as much asana, but for most practitioners it is an important part of the process, to keep the energy flowing and facilitate deeper sitting meditation. But, again, what most modern teachers call "yoga" is NOT real yoga, in fact it's not even correct practice of asana, it's just gymnastics, and often neglects the breath entirely! The asanas exist for the breath, not the reverse. This principle has been largely lost in modern "yoga." And as Maha points out, all 8 limbs of yoga are important. BTW I wish you better success than me, in making a living as a yoga teacher. Here in the U.S. it has become extremely difficult due to economic circumstances... |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 03:21:40 AM
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| Sweet Radhrani...i totally agree with yr post...dont see any difference from what i said...asanas are a preparation for meditation and can be done meditatevily...but what i felt from SparklingDiamond post that some people tend to think that meditation can be neglected as unimportant cause the focus only on gymnastics,working out and getting fit...this is not bad but it is not the real goal of Yoga... |
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SparklingDiamond
Australia
227 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 04:20:14 AM
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Wow interesting points from both of you!
What got me really thinking about it was that my sister, when I asked her (she being a yoga teacher) if she meditates, considered her Ashtanga yoga to be 'meditation' also
This I wasnt so sure of, but then thought maybe she gets to a state in her Yoga practise, that this is a form of 'meditation. I'm not sure, but to me, one can go much deeper state, if one practises meditation in a sitting, still posture
Sure there is walking meditation, but still have to question if the walking could inhibit getting to the very deep states of meditation that can be attained when one is still?
P.S. I have noticed in my sister, a lot of personal growth and also psychic development too. I think this is from her many years of yoga practise and teaching, but for a long time, it 'appeared' that she practised it more on the 'physical' level, and not so much on the deeper philosophy of Yoga. Now she is much deeper into her practise
She is in the dilemma, which alot of us on the spiritual path come across, where one partner is into this path, and the other is not on the spiritual path. But I am confident she will work it out either way :)
Look forward to any more comments and differing or similar viewpoints :) |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 04:22:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
Sweet Radhrani...i totally agree with yr post...dont see any difference from what i said...asanas are a preparation for meditation and can be done meditatevily...but what i felt from SparklingDiamond post that some people tend to think that meditation can be neglected as unimportant cause the focus only on gymnastics,working out and getting fit...this is not bad but it is not the real goal of Yoga...
yeah, we are pretty much in agreement except I contend that meditation CAN occur during asana IF it is done correctly. But you're right, the "gymnastic" variety is not real yoga anyway. Hardly anybody teaches the kind of asana I am talking about. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 04:26:18 AM
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quote:
meditation CAN occur during asana
true |
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SparklingDiamond
Australia
227 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 04:27:05 AM
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Hi radharani
I am meaning more the devoted, dedicated yoga practitioners, not just the general yoga practise, or the casual yoga practitioner.
The Asana you r talking about, do you mean Ashtanga Yoga???
That to me is the deeper form of yoga practise (not meditation) |
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SparklingDiamond
Australia
227 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 04:28:14 AM
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Hi Radharani
Considering the economics.
Well I am always surprised how costly learning yoga is.
Here in Australia , its almost 20 dollars per session. ALOT ! |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 04:29:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SparklingDiamond
Wow interesting points from both of you!
What got me really thinking about it was that my sister, when I asked her (she being a yoga teacher) if she meditates, considered her Ashtanga yoga to be 'meditation' also
This I wasnt so sure of, but then thought maybe she gets to a state in her Yoga practise, that this is a form of 'meditation. I'm not sure, but to me, one can go much deeper state, if one practises meditation in a sitting, still posture
Sure there is walking meditation, but still have to question if the walking could inhibit getting to the very deep states of meditation that can be attained when one is still?
As I said, IF she is doing the asana CORRECTLY and mindfully, in the classical sense - with the focus on the breath - then yes, a deep state of meditation IS possible during asana. I do it myself every day. But, as I said, when you get to a very deep state you will want to be seated. This is for the simple fact that when you go into pratyahara you will most likely fall down. |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 04:32:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SparklingDiamond
Hi Radharani
Considering the economics.
Well I am always surprised how costly learning yoga is.
Here in Australia , its almost 20 dollars per session. ALOT !
When I taught in Berkeley, California in the 1980s it was $20.
Now here in Florida it is just $5 or free, and a friend in California told me the other day it is $5 there now, too. So it is not possible for me to make a living teaching yoga anymore. |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 04:40:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SparklingDiamond
Hi radharani
I am meaning more the devoted, dedicated yoga practitioners, not just the general yoga practise, or the casual yoga practitioner.
The Asana you r talking about, do you mean Ashtanga Yoga???
That to me is the deeper form of yoga practise (not meditation)
Sorry, I just saw this post.
I am referring to asana as taught by Krishnamacharya, "the teacher of all the modern teachers." Jois, who founded Ashtanga, did study with K and preserved some of his teachings, including the use of ujjayi breath with asana.
My teacher, Mark Whitwell, lived in K's house for 20 years and studied with his son on a daily basis and I think has preserved the classical tradition and subtle techniques more fully than anybody else, particularly with regard to the breath and its relationship with the asana. It is similar to Ashtanga but a little deeper and more subtle. |
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SparklingDiamond
Australia
227 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 04:40:20 AM
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You should move to Australia!
My other sister, also wants to become a yoga teacher, but its a bit more motivated by making money, than the yoga philosophy, because of how much it costs to learn! :) |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 07:47:56 AM
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Which is more powerful is not a productive way to approach the subject. When you are choosing something, asking for the most powerful often gets you the wrong result. Think about if you asked that question when buying a gun, or a perfume, or a cleaner, or a power saw, ad infinitum. There has to be more finesse in deciding.
The most powerful technique for eradicating your mind might instantly enlighten you- and also put you in a mental hospital, where you are the only one who thinks you're enlightened. |
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SparklingDiamond
Australia
227 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 08:37:58 AM
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Hi Etherfish :)
O.K.
True that. :)
Maybe just different strokes for different folks. :) |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 09:23:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SparklingDiamond
Which is more powerful for spiritual growth/development? Practising Yoga (as in postures, i.e Ashtanga yoga, hatha etc) or practise of Meditation, yes, I mean general meditation????
Hi Maria
Great viewpoints already. Agree totally with the others here, about asanas not being the whole of yoga.
However, if you are going to pursue becoming a yoga teacher, you'll see that people come to yoga for various reasons that are not always spiritual advancement - for health, flexibility, fitness, whatever. But an interesting thing happens over time to some people such as your sister - the "other" aspects begin to draw them in, and true yoga begins to happen. Why this happens to some and not others is a mystery. These folks become so engrossed in yoga that it becomes primarily an "off the mat" practice - everything they put in to the asana practice - breath, posture, (and primarily) awareness begins to permeate everyday life. Natural meditation, exactly as it was meant to be. This cannot be forced on anyone though, no matter what the instructor's personal view or practice may be - only Divine Will.
It would be great to teach yoga like that, emphasizing the cultivation of inner silence through postures. The Ashtanga studio I frequent is like that - something I'm very grateful for. Even in challenging sequences, the focus is on breath awareness rather than the poses themselves.
Good luck to you!
Love 
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Edited by - kami on Feb 07 2013 11:18:12 AM |
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SparklingDiamond
Australia
227 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 09:39:34 AM
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Hi kami
I am wondering if Yoga is truly for me. I am not 100 percent sure yet.
the thing is that I have found that with yoga, although I don't have extensive experience with it, that when I did practise it, it felt like quite an effort on my body and breathing. i didn't particularly find it relaxing, or anywhere near meditation like feeling, although after the ashtanga sessions, my body would feel good and exhilarated, particularly with the breathing techniques used in Ashtanga.
Would this be indicative of it just not suiting me. The thing that really draws me about learning more about yoga, and dwelving deeply into it, is the philosophy of it, and the effect on my body is just a side benefit. But the changes I have seen in my sister, is v motivating in itself.
Thanks for sharing your experience Kami! |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 11:26:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SparklingDiamond
The thing that really draws me about learning more about yoga, and dwelving deeply into it, is the philosophy of it, and the effect on my body is just a side benefit.
Hi Maria,
This, in my humble opinion, is a great reason to go for it.
The best yoga teachers are not simply those who can demonstrate poses (like in magazines), but those that instruct from a place of authenticity, humility and burning desire to discover yoga for what it is. I'd suggest just going with whatever is true for you. In the past, I've gotten certification for the same reason as you, not really for the purpose of teaching. Great experience, and has aided my unfolding greatly.
Much love |
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SparklingDiamond
Australia
227 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2013 : 8:49:34 PM
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Oh Wow, Kami ! Those words I really took to heart.
It feels right!
Thank you! |
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lmaher22
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2013 : 11:14:30 PM
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Anyone can be a guru to anyone if that anyone is ready. Until then we're all leaky buckets. Once the holes are filled in by us we become worthy student vessels. Only when the student is ready will the master appear. If that happens you might find the master has been living next door the whole time. My point is, become a teacher and let the vessels find you. OR, just carry the message. All helping professions are noble professions.
Best of luck;
L |
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Which is More Powerful?
