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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 03 2013 : 3:46:28 PM
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Hi,
I am 26 year old male. I have been in a relationship with a woman four years my senior for the last three years.
We recently separated due to wanting different things in our lives (I do not want kids yet, I have only slept with this one woman and need to experience others, etc.) - basically age/maturity differences.
A few months ago, she left to go abroad for some time. I still have a very soft spot for this woman, and vica versa.
So, it feels like limbo land between 'relationship' and 'separated', it is hard to tell.
I am experiencing a lot of guilt and anxiety. A few weeks after she left, I was drinking with colleagues. I was very drunk, far more than is usual for me.
One colleague, aware that she is away a lot of the time, asked me if I loved her.. I said unequivocally "yes", they then asked if I was -in love- with her, I cannot remember exactly what I said but it wasn't anything quite as affirmative, but to the effect of "Argh, I don't know, I guess not, but I feel so guilty about this"
The fact I said this or even think this triggers intense guilt. This event is something I am hiding from this woman.
Also, though I recently got a grip on this due to growing perspective, I have engaged in a fair fit of flirting/banter with women in the workplace. I have never attempted anything with any woman, this is just verbal flirting and banter.
So the lady I have been in relationship, and am now in limbo in, just contacted me to let me know she will be returning home in a week's time. By the way, we cohabit.
I do not know how to deal with this.
Do I tell her this stuff? I do not feel safe doing so, as she has gotten really angry at me over minor stuff before - there is a cowardly child in my psyche.
Part of me really really loves this woman, I want to own up to this event and ask her forgiveness.
But I am aware that is kind of demanding love. Part of me says I should just tell her.
Part of me does not want anything to damage the good view she has of me, and so wants to hide and hug up to her.
Confused. Please advise.
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Edited by - Jack on Feb 03 2013 3:48:41 PM |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2013 : 5:40:34 PM
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| Just bumping this topic, I appreciate it reads pathetically, but this is something that consumes the mind constantly with worry. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2013 : 10:07:48 PM
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Hey Jack,
Welcome. Namaste. 
I was married for a short time and cheated on my wife while drunk one night. The guilt consumed me, and before long, I had to "tell the truth".
Jesus said: "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
I don't think this is just some grand, spiritually idealistic statement--I think it can also be applied to microcosmic situations like cloudiness in a relationship.
Anyway, my telling of the truth led to the demise of our marriage, which I was afraid of. But, I don't regret it. We're both happier now and on good terms. I quit drinking/started meditating, and she moved on and found a new partner.
I'd rather live a life in which I can be open, transparent, and forthcoming about my actions and desires, rather than live a life based on attachment, deception, and fear of loss.
Well, nothing lasts, but nothing is lost either. The more I become rooted in stillness, there is less of a need to try to hold onto people or things. It's all sprung from this eternal Presence of Being, so do we really gain or lose anything? To me, it just seems like things are re-arranged, transformed and constantly evolving. But when we're really tied up in an entanglement, we often lose sight and awareness of this atmosphere of equanimity.
The solution: release intentions, desires, doubts, and obstructions into stillness...repeatedly! The habit of picking up and releasing (samyama) has become more automatic for me in the past year, and saved me a lot of suffering from things that used to drive me insane.
I'm not sure what the course of action is for you to take with your relationship, but if you follow the principle of diving into stillness (meditation) and letting stillness move you (samyama), then the results will be positive. Positive results doesn't always equate to maintaining a status quo. Sometimes a comfort zone has to be shifted, and sometimes some dark shadows have to be brought to the surface. There's a wholeness and an honesty that embraces the full spectrum of being human--from the root to the crown; from the raw, primal instincts all the way up to the transcendent, sublime realms of Light.
Just be honest with her about what you really want, what you really feel, and what's really going on in your inner world. No manipulation, control, or deception--just the cold water of honesty, which can sometimes be shocking, but ultimately refreshing and liberating.
Good luck. I empathize deeply.  |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2013 : 4:48:51 PM
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Bodhi Tree,
Thank you for taking the time and drawing from your own painful experiences to share with me.
I am reading your post slowly, out loud, each evening before sleep. Several parts of it are almost like an affirmation.
I wanted to brain-storm this out, a different perspective on the guilt:
I feel like I'm committing a sin by talking to anyone about my relationship and feelings.. I have not had a chance to once properly discuss this.. only one drunken hint to how I'm not sure if I am "in love" with you and that I have felt crippling guilt for months. Like it is a secret from you anyway? "I should not tell anyone what is going on, I don't want to betray you." Most people think things are normal with us, I havn't even said we've seperated to anybody since telling my parents a couple of months ago.. HAVE we seperated? I'm so confused and in pain and I constantly attack myself.
I still have strong feelings for you.. sometimes I have flirted a little with other women and feel overwhelming guilt for it like I am still with you and have betrayed you?
I don't want for women at the moment anyway.. but I do miss you deeply, I cry sometimes for what that is worth, thinking of you, your pain, your worries. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2013 : 6:36:09 PM
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That's very touching, Jack. I write a lot in journal form, and also in the form of poetry and music (so it can be artistically shared  ). It's good to write that stuff down because it will help you unwind the constrictions.
All emotion is the power of love. --Yogani
That statement, like so much of Yogani's writing, struck me right off the bat. So, when it comes to anger or guilt or other "negative" emotions, just remember that these are un-refined forms of love trying to integrate themselves into your being. And all emotion can be directed to your chosen ideal (ishta), which is very intimate and personal, in terms of your relationship to the Divine.
I would check out these lessons:
http://www.aypsite.org/132.html - What is Sin?
http://www.aypsite.org/340.html - Transforming Emotional Energy for Enlightenment
Both of those have been incredibly valuable to me in navigating the sometimes rocky terrain of emotions and relationships.
You're doing good! All will be revealed, and all will be restored to harmony. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2013 : 6:48:34 PM
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Thank you, Bodhi.
When I speak to her online, it's on the tip of my fingertips..
I speak to her and end up feeling happy.. but always anxious.. wondering what to do..
I am terrified of telling her this thing and ****ing everything up.
And once I have 'admitted' this, what then of my feelings now?
I love the girl, but I have said this thing "I am not in love with her".. what does that even mean?
It's like, I want to look after her, do right by her, provide for her, nurse her hurts, share her happiness, play with her.. and I want to be vulnerable, to show myself, to be accepted, but there is like a resistance in the gut.. and a wall of fear and shame. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2013 : 7:56:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack]
I love the girl, but I have said this thing "I am not in love with her".. what does that even mean?
C.S. Lewis wrote a book in which he postulated four kinds of love: affection, friendship, romance, and unconditional love.
Perhaps you still have unconditional love for her, but the love has dwindled in the other 3 categories. This is common, and it happened in my relationship.
With an intimate partnership (boyfriend-girlfiend/husband-wife), it seems all four flavors of love have to be enlivened for the relationship to thrive. Otherwise, that "in love" feeling you describe is absent. Maybe it can be restored--maybe not?
But know that the unconditional love (agape) will not fade, regardless of the expression, or lack thereof, of the other forms of love. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2013 : 05:01:58 AM
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Interesting, Bodhi!
Unconditional love, yes.. affection, yes.. friendship, yes..
Romance.. yes, but marred, damaged, blocked with past mistakes, regrets, the whole shebang.
And difference in paths, yes..
Confused.com
It's more the guilt over having told some coworker about this while drinking, admittedly I was sloshed beyond my usual amount by far, and was directly asked and caught unawares, but still. I need to talk to her, I guess.
I am changing job, though, I was offered a position yesterday as an ambulance emergency call handler. So I do not have to deal with certain coworkers anymore I suppose. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 4:23:49 PM
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Literally panic struck. She said she would be home in a few days.
I feel raw panic in the gut.
Choices - move on and put this behind. This means I am hiding something and am a liar.
Tell her. This risks completely devastating her, having her hate me, and ****ing up whatever we have.
I do not know if it is friendship or relationship. I feel like I have betrayed her and need to tell her. Confusing. I want to be told what to do, heh. |
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apatride
New Caledonia
94 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 8:17:54 PM
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Very moving exchanges you're having, thanks a lot for sharing.
Bodhi_Tree, regarding lesson 340, I'm feeling a lot of angst and irritation during the day, notably when I'm home. Do I have to understand from lesson 340 that when I'm angry, I should be angry for not being close enough from my ishta ? I don't know how I can deviate my angst to higher purpose ? |
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 8:26:09 PM
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Hi Jack,
From your posts it isn't clear - do you want to have a romantic relationship with her or not?
From a woman's point of view, I can tell you that it isn't all that complicated. If you want to continue a relationship with her, tell her - all of it. Your perceived slip up, your angst about it and desire to make up and start afresh. It is perceived only because it is not such a big deal in the grand scheme of things. If she wants the same thing, the relationship will flower even through the hurt and pain. If not, it is not meant to be.
Most of us go through phases of being "in" and "out" of love simply because until we realize what love truly is, it is simply a concept. There aren't "different types of love" - that is a sad misunderstanding. Love isn't something that can be put into a box and classified as "romantic", "platonic" or whatever. Like water, love just flows, taking on the shape of the "container" or the context of the relationship. If we can only surrender to it without letting the mind complicate it so much, all is taken care of. Very simple really.
Also, if this is affecting you to this degree, it is trying to show you something. A wonderful opportunity to look within. Just sit with the angst, the discomfort. If you can bow to it, become it, it will show you something deeper. Do you practice any of the AYP methods?
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 9:59:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by apatride
Bodhi_Tree, regarding lesson 340, I'm feeling a lot of angst and irritation during the day, notably when I'm home. Do I have to understand from lesson 340 that when I'm angry, I should be angry for not being close enough from my ishta ? I don't know how I can deviate my angst to higher purpose ?
So, when you're angry at home, you can direct that energy to your ishta. It's not just "venting" or "unloading"...it's beckoning and calling upon your ishta to help you fulfill your path to enlightenment. It's a transformative process of using emotions with a different momentum.
You could say: "God, you S.O.B, motherf***er, I need you to show me how to get closer to you! Tell me what to do! Bring your presence into my life so I am not so angry! I surrender to your flow of stillness!"
You dig? Flip the script, baby. In judo (which, in Japanese, means "the gentle way"), we use the opponent's momentum to our advantage. Rather than wasting energy trying to hurt or cause harm, we simply capture the flow and direct the energy to the resolution of conflict. It's about ending the fight, not prolonging it. The fight can be enjoyable if it's a non-violent dance of acrobatic and flexible maneuvers. But if there's elements of hatred, vindictiveness, or malice...then it's best to neutralize the enemy.
To me, the main thing about Lesson 340 is a willingness to adapt to changes which divinity will present to resolve your inner conflict. You can bark at God all you want, but if you're not willing to fall in line with His/Her flow (maybe more meditation, maybe more karma yoga, maybe better habits?), then the results will be negligible.
Hope this helps. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2013 : 12:19:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
Literally panic struck. She said she would be home in a few days.
I feel raw panic in the gut.
That's awesome. Panic in the gut means your alive. Your heart rate and pulse probably increased, as well. Thank the Lord you're not a robot and you can still feel.
I felt some panic in the gut last week when I had to play a gig. You know what that panic turned into? Euphoria and good vibrations! Remember? All emotion is the power of love...trying to break through and refine itself into a smoother flow of BEING.
So, be thankful for your panic (though it be disconcerting and uncomfortable). It's just a symptom of purification, and regardless of the outcome, if you follow your heart and be honest, all will be well. You're both children of God, and this is a movie-drama-comedy that is being played out for the enjoyment of all parties concerned.
The more active surrender, the more enjoyment.
And like Kami said...it's not a big deal. Nothing is a big deal, really. We just magnify things with our awareness, which is fine. Sometimes things need to be magnified so we can progress and move forward.
Unity. Strength. Wisdom. |
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apatride
New Caledonia
94 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2013 : 12:33:09 AM
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| Thanks your highlights, Bodhi Tree. So I would try to adress my feelings, whatever they feel, to my ishta. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2013 : 12:36:08 AM
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| Precisely, apatride. Positive, negative, and everything in between. Full devotion. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2013 : 12:43:31 AM
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Dear Jack,
If I was the woman in question and I loved you. I would burst out laughing after you'd told me your story, ruffled your hair and called you 'an idiot'.
Forgiveness my man - we women have a huge capacity for it. Now forgive yourself, tell her the truth and all will be well.
Sey |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2013 : 02:15:10 AM
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Hmmm...will you ruffle my hair, Sey? Just some "platonic love" ruffling, that is. Nothing R rated or outside forum guidelines. Just some PG ruffling. It just sounds so nice the way you wrote it...ahhh...ruffling of hair. I'm a sucker for getting a shampoo when I go to get my haircut.
Wait! I'm off topic. Disregard!  |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2013 : 04:16:55 AM
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Thank you, all. I need to leave the house to go to yoga class soon, but thank you so much.
"From your posts it isn't clear - do you want to have a romantic relationship with her or not?"
I am unclear on this. To be fair, the intense feelings could be an indication to go within and get clear on this.
Is it appropriate to ask what you advice would be if I do not want to continue the relationship?
It is usually the mind that seeks reasons to discontinue.. and the heart just keeps loving her.
Some very appreciate posts here.. and Sey.. that is the kind of love that would be very welcome in my world!
I shall have to post tonight when I have more time, can't be late for asana.. thank you. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2013 : 04:22:13 AM
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| And yes, I practice SBP&DM, 5&10 minutes respectively, twice per day. Have been for a few weeks now.. previously, it's been DM 10 minutes twice a day for the past six months or so. |
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2013 : 06:51:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
Is it appropriate to ask what you advice would be if I do not want to continue the relationship?
It is usually the mind that seeks reasons to discontinue.. and the heart just keeps loving her.
Hi Jack,
Nothing is inappropriate, IMO. You're asking, aren't you? Then, it must be appropriate 
If you don't want to continue, tell her. Maybe she will be relieved.. Or not. Either way, pretty sure she will appreciate you being honest and upfront.
And you are right - the mind is always the barrier in love. Also, there is absolutely nothing more appealing to a woman than a guy who can be transparent and vulnerable. The "macho" image is just a myth - no woman I know cares for that. If you can be vulnerable with her, take down your barriers (and throw them away, because they really don't serve any purpose) and open your heart, the outcome can only be wholesome. Even if that means breaking up, there will always be a bond and perhaps, friendship.
If you feel ready, I'd say add samyama to your practice. Perhaps even just a couple of sutras - love, clarity, or whatever you think is needed.
Best of luck to you!!
Kami |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2013 : 12:36:38 AM
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@ Bodhi Tree - Ruffling your hair...
Sey |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2013 : 04:23:10 AM
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Thank you, Kami. So nice to talk to people here and not be attacked, as my paranoia would have be expect! I am pretty constricted, some healing needed here.
I included "Clarity", "Love", "Unity" and "Strength" as a mini-Samyama at the end of today's sit.
So it would appear that the core elements here are "Honesty" and "Self-Forgiveness". My ego struggles with both.
I am unsure how to communicate my own indecisiveness over all this - something she is aware of already, no doubt. "Hey so I said I wasn't in love with you to a colleague when drunk.. but I kind of am, I'm just not sure and confused and I'm sorry and.. um.. so.. and I hear love is just a concept until we experience its truth.."?
Knowing her, it's a luck of the draw between instant forgiveness and days of upset.
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2013 : 07:03:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
I am unsure how to communicate my own indecisiveness over all this - something she is aware of already, no doubt. "Hey so I said I wasn't in love with you to a colleague when drunk.. but I kind of am, I'm just not sure and confused and I'm sorry and.. um.. so.. and I hear love is just a concept until we experience its truth.."?
You could...
Or..
How about something like, "I am in agony that I said something in drunken stupor - about not being in love with you. In reality, I love you and feel confused about the status of our relationship..."
Just be honest about how you feel.. That's the only thing you can know. How she will react is not your business. We can't let what we "think" the other person will do affect our authenticity.
Much love |
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Mykal K
Germany
267 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2013 : 10:04:47 AM
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Hey Jack,
I wish you and your girlfriend the best.
Indecisiveness is a funny little bugger. In my experience, it exists because of the ideas that we got from our surroundings, and from our lost connection with our center. Usually there is a fear involved.
If you have the capacity to look for that fear, identify it, and find your core beneath it, it would help both of you.
It seems quickest. I wouldn't worry too much with how my girlfriend would react, while there is no 'me' that she can count on yet.
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2013 : 8:14:02 PM
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Kami, I should let you write me a script.
She is phoning me tomorrow to talk.. need to man up tomorrow to deal with all this. 
Thank you so much for the input, kami, Mykal and everybody.. |
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apatride
New Caledonia
94 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2013 : 9:30:03 PM
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| Wish you all the luck & courage, Jack. |
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