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joao.jlgoncalves
Portugal
50 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 27 2013 : 12:32:21 AM
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Hello everybody,
i´ve been running/working out for more than 20 years and I can not yet do a marathon and even if I´d want I won´t be able probably never, despite my devotion to a regular training everyday (at least one hour of running per day); for the enlightenment,it´s the same thing, don´t elude yourself,you can make the practices religiously twice daily during decades like advised, but you won´t attain the enlightenment, these result is reserved for some spiritually special/genious people like yogani is; so the enlightenment is reserved for few people in the world, and not for millions/everybody like yogani say...sorry about these bad news.
Please, convince me that I am wrong, I want also to believe in this dream!
Thanks!
Joao
PS: sorry about my bad English. |
Edited by - joao.jlgoncalves on Jan 27 2013 12:37:49 AM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2013 : 02:06:12 AM
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If you can walk outside, and admire a single blade of grass, or stare at a lizard sitting on stone,
If you can look at your brother or mother and see your reflection in their faces,
If you can breathe in a deep breath and marvel at this miracle, if only for a brief moment....
Then maybe enlightenment is not so exclusive or far away as you imagine. Maybe it's right in front of you, because it could just be a reflection of you, after all. Maybe all this meditation and AYP stuff is simply expanding upon and cultivating a consciousness that is already inherently present in your mind, and we just haven't taken the time to notice because of our busy day.
Maybe the biggest illusion of all is that only a few people are enlightened. Maybe even the most miserable, forlorn, evil or un-evolved creatures have a shred of enlightenment in them. Like 2% enlightenment. And maybe the rest of us are just average with 20% enlightenment. And okay, maybe the masters and famous ones are super chock-full of enlightenment with 92% enlightenment.
But who has the 100%?...the total and complete package. Well, is there such a thing? I think Yogani has written something to the effect that the only individual enlightenment you will find will always be relative to the whole.
So, maybe observe what little enlightenment is present in your life and seek to leapfrog from that beginning.
That seems to work for me, in addition to my daily practice of meditation, samyama, and other tricks of the trade.
Godspeed.
P.S. I run as well, and the best I've felt is when I'm running on what feels like an "eternal rhythm"...that is, a pace and cadence that's no so concerned about the time and distance I'm travelling, but rather, one that is lost in the moment of Now....still, it would be cool to run a textbook marathon, so I wish you luck on that. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2013 : 08:57:27 AM
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Yes, good answer from Bodhi above. Enlightenment is nothing like running a marathon or any other pursuit that is perfected by years of practice.
It is not for special people, or geniuses. In fact, it is often easier for ordinary people without a lot of genius brain power. That just gets in the way.
Instead of building up a practice and perfecting it for years, what we are really doing is letting go, so don't let anyone fool you into thinking it is very difficult and takes years of practice. We practice for years just to let go a little more, and become a little more peaceful, and that is really available to anybody.
We get so caught up in a big complex world that we forget that the best things in life are not difficult, and they are not complex, they are easy.
In the busy world of thousands of people ever striving to be better and get more, who tells you to relax, let go, do nothing for a little while?
Meditation teaches you to relax more than you do when you sleep.
It is very good for you mentally, physically, and spiritually. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2013 : 04:05:06 AM
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There is no need to chase enlightenment. The Sun is still there even when the Earth is dark. |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2013 : 8:11:40 PM
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Hi Joao,
that is a reasonable proposition. There are some additional things that have to be considered, elements that cannot be neglected, in order to more fairly determine the chances of any one person attaining some state, quality, condition, or change beyond some given threshold that can be called enlightenment.
This isn't meant to be a comprehensive list, but just some ideas that come to mind. I also agree with the AYP point of view, which from my understanding, is to not add unnecessary assumptions beyond the bare minimums required for effective spiritual practice. Beyond that, it is up to the beliefs and experiences of the individual practitioner.
1. Enlightenment and Reincarnation. From a dual point of view, the concept of enlightenment is in response to reincarnation. There is strong evidence in favor of both, no matter what perspective is used.
Some people directly remember their past lives. Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj would probably say such an ability too requires special training, even if only to uncover a collection of 'memories and habits.' George Feuerstein reports on a general consensus in classic texts of yoga and tantra: "Unlike the subtle body, the causal body is not destroyed at the moment of cosmic dissolution (pralaya) but serves as the template for the creation of the next semipermanent subtle body. It is eliminated only upon full liberation" (Tantra, p. 161). Thus a connection is proposed to exist between lives, one that not just influences but actually generates the conditions of successive vehicles. The main point here is that what appears limited, cyclical, fragmented, is only so when regarded in isolation and disconnected from its role in the greater picture. The obvious implications of this are carried forward with the ideas of purification and ripeness. "Remember, it is the one thing we can take with us
when we move on from this life" (Lesson 10).
2. Imperative.
Many texts will point out that enlightenment is unavoidable. The only question is how much more unnecessary suffering and idle time the person wishes to endure. The lessons reinforce this idea: "You will get there. Everyone will. It is written in our genes" (L235). The opportunity doesn't exist in some imagined future, but now. Not even the inertia of the past can thwart it for long. To delay for some other time or a more opportune condition is to squander the value of what is already here and now.
3. Global consciousness.
Yogani asserted time and again the value of a group atmosphere, of retreats, and of the rise of a "massive shift in world consciousness." This is something very tangible, and that I find especially so when there is some resonance between a few of the members in a group. On a global scale, you are bound to be in sync with many others at any one sitting, irrespective of the means employed other than sharing in that striving or devotion. The tools are here. Why be left out, when you can be part of it, making it happen?
4. Ordinary.
There are no prerequisites for the tools provided here. If someone is called to them, they will have enough to put them to use for as long as it takes to see the results. Yogani reassured that he is just like anyone else, and said "it is important to note that we ordinary folks can cultivate constant miraculous experience in our lives" (L76). Of course, like anything, what you bring to your practice has an impact, but that doesn't mean all of it will be a positive one, or that more is needed beyond what is already available.
Bodhi already mentioned the idea about enlightenment not being realized until everyone is enlightened. The list could go on, though I hope so far it has become more obvious that a fair assessment or comparison requires taking many more factors into account, maybe an endless array to be more accurate, especially so for something as significant, and impossible to mentally grasp, as enlightenment. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2013 : 8:49:57 PM
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That is delightfully academic and crisp, AumNaturel. Nice!  |
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escapado
Germany
88 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2013 : 9:08:47 PM
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Maybe it's really just that some are born closer to it (because of work in a previous life, etc.)
But if you want to end up there (and your being here shows just that) you are eventually going to in the end.
So, why ignore the hunger for spiritual growth. If youre going to have to do something for it even if it takes 20000years, at some point youre gonna have to start the journey anyway |
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joao.jlgoncalves
Portugal
50 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2013 : 07:02:19 AM
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Thank you very much to all for your wonderful responses; sorry If I cause you to lose time with my divagations...actually I am happy for what AYP is doing in my life and I am not too preoccupied about enlightenment...
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2013 : 1:45:28 PM
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quote:
I am not too preoccupied about enlightenment...
by the way this is the best approach |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2013 : 10:26:27 PM
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| I like what everybody said, above. I just want to add, it is helpful to approach your yoga practice NOT as, "I have to do this in order to someday reach the goal of enlightenment!" Rather, yoga practice is an opportunity to experience your Natural State, the enlightenment that is already within you, here and now. At first maybe we only get glimpses, but I promise you, It is right there. Spend enough time consistently in that state and eventually it will spill over into the rest of your life. |
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lmaher22
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2013 : 10:20:16 PM
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| Right on. I often got seduced by the thoughts of enlightenment particularly when I read of great lives of Yogi's, Guru's, whatever. Sometimes it lead to frustration. But honest autobiographies by many of such men and women made me see that you really have to be ready for the responsibilities and empowerments that enlightenment brings. Nothing is free and that weight can be heavy. So now when I think of 'climbing the enlightenment' ladder I peruse more like you JJ; because I'm not able to forsake everything and search for 'It' with all my heart and soul, including truly renouncing all the world has to offer, I believe it's okay to 'settle' for more emotional and spiritual stability that meditation and AYP has come to offer. Most politicians don't become president even though they do daydream of it. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2013 : 07:35:09 AM
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I don't see it as "settling". I see it as the best path. Most of us know that we could not handle renouncing the whole world, and therefore, that is not our path. Giving a local politician the job of president doesn't make him a good president.
Diving into something you are not ready for doesn't magically make you ready for it.
And changing what is on the outside, like what you do all day, is not where the battle is.
The whole battle is on the inside, where we get rid of illusions like thinking our job would be different if we were enlightened.
Once you become enlightened you might renounce the whole world (or not), but doing that first doesn't make you enlightened. |
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lmaher22
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2013 : 8:38:58 PM
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| Hope ur not directing ur nickel plated advice toward me, ether. |
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Goodway
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2013 : 11:51:22 AM
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People look so often for final enlightenment, never realizing that all along the path they have experienced all kinds of enlightenment and thrown it away for some final prize.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2013 : 12:54:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Goodway
People look so often for final enlightenment, never realizing that all along the path they have experienced all kinds of enlightenment and thrown it away for some final prize.
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Goodway
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2013 : 08:45:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
quote:
Originally posted by Goodway
People look so often for final enlightenment, never realizing that all along the path they have experienced all kinds of enlightenment and thrown it away for some final prize.
Isn't it so true?  |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2013 : 08:48:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Goodway
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
quote:
Originally posted by Goodway
People look so often for final enlightenment, never realizing that all along the path they have experienced all kinds of enlightenment and thrown it away for some final prize.
Isn't it so true?
Yes. |
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Goodway
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2013 : 09:05:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
quote:
Originally posted by Goodway
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
quote:
Originally posted by Goodway
People look so often for final enlightenment, never realizing that all along the path they have experienced all kinds of enlightenment and thrown it away for some final prize.
Isn't it so true?
Yes.
Final liberation? Hrm. My life has been so fun, why would I want to ignore all the beautiful times within it? Fact is, some of the most precious moments of this existence of mine were the first murmurings of my own liberation, which continues to this day. How I miss my friends when this journey began! 
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2013 : 09:15:57 AM
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Every step is beautiful.. every seeing/letting go/opening. Every time another pattern is seen and let go... the liberation that comes from not having to carry that around anymore is worth every step that lead to that point.
Here is something I had written in 2006...
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=985
... and after 7 years I still feel the same.
So much gratitude for everything!
If you don't mind me asking... why do you miss your friends?
Or maybe I misunderstood what you said. |
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Goodway
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2013 : 09:26:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Every step is beautiful.. every seeing/letting go/opening. Every time another pattern is seen and let go... the liberation that comes from not having to carry that around anymore is worth every step that lead to that point.
Here is something I had written in 2006...
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=985
... and after 7 years I still feel the same.
So much gratitude for everything!
If you don't mind me asking... why do you miss your friends?
Or maybe I misunderstood what you said.
I remember how beautiful they were. We were so young and looking upon the world with such bravery.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2013 : 09:27:39 AM
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Goodway
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2013 : 11:52:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
I suppose that was then. I look forward to meeting new friends. Circumstances have unfortunately driven me from that which I loved. It wasn't all that great back then, when I really remember all the other things that happened.
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Edited by - Goodway on Feb 22 2013 11:54:22 AM |
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DoctorWho
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2013 : 01:21:43 AM
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Hi Joao,
I take the long-term view: We've all been at this for an inconceivably long time.
I guess it helps if one accepts the notion of rebirth.
Biological evolution proceeds at a glacial pace...our spiritual evolution is no different.
Probably worse actually.
They say it took the Buddha three incalculable eons before he "achieved" enlightenment. When I heard that notion years ago, I was crushed. Very sobering. One's perspective grows.
After that, and many other realizations about the enormity of it all, I have since scaled back many of my wide-eyed, naive expectations about where I am on the spiritual evolutionary ladder...and what enlightenment even means.
We are where we are. I am grateful not to be preoccupied with the "goal" of enlightenment anymore. Especially in this life , with all of my karma, circumstances, short-comings, aversions and grasping. Much work to do. I am dedicated to the process. I simply practice. Two times daily.
Chop wood. Carry water. |
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schtroumpsolis
Canada
24 Posts |
Posted - Aug 03 2013 : 10:23:00 PM
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Ayp lessons are made so you can develop stability . lots of it. Because it is most needed during enlightment. It feel like being run over by a galaxy. The wonderfull love beyond comprehension and the absolute nothingness..
Enlightment exist all right. To get there ,its all about attitude .to stay there ...its all about preparations. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2013 : 10:10:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Goodway
People look so often for final enlightenment, never realizing that all along the path they have experienced all kinds of enlightenment and thrown it away for some final prize.
That's true. People want to own enlightenment, like something they bring home from the store that is very valuable.
What if we have always had a little enlightenment here and there, but don't put any value on it because it was not packaged like we expected?
And all this longing for enlightenment is one of many things we do in between experiencing it?
How do we know we were not fully enlightened yesterday, and don't remember it that way? I have had quite a few experiences where I said "This was extraordinary. My life will never be the same!"
Then it is the same after all. So I have to conclude that enlightened experiences don't store in the memory like ordinary ones.
Thanks Goodway. |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2013 : 11:59:17 PM
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quote:
Rather, yoga practice is an opportunity to experience your Natural State, the enlightenment that is already within you, here and now. At first maybe we only get glimpses, but I promise you, It is right there. Spend enough time consistently in that state and eventually it will spill over into the rest of your life.
- (Radharani)
quote:
Maybe the biggest illusion of all is that only a few people are enlightened. Maybe even the most miserable, forlorn, evil or un-evolved creatures have a shred of enlightenment in them. Like 2% enlightenment.
- Bodhi
Those resonate here . Enlightenment is not a far off goal which takes aeons to achieve.
Search your heart deeply. Find out what you truly desire in life.
What you desire will be best indicated by how you spend your time every day, what you're thinking of, what you're longing for, and whether or not your acting constructively towards actualizing those desires. If there's a strong longing in your heart for enlightenment, it will be evidenced in that longing guiding you towards Self-Effort i.e. taking constructive daily action moving towards your desire in the form of daily spiritual practices, such as AYP. The constructive daily action will gradually become one-pointed focus on the Self.
If there is anything you have a true, deep desire/passion (not a passing whim) for, then all one needs is a constructive attitude (a mental attitude of "Exactly what do I need to understand and do to make this desire a reality?") and then take repeated action, being internally prepared to sacrifice everything for the achievement of your goal.
You'll fail, you'll go wrong, you'll have a lot of learning to do, sometimes it will be frustrating, but if you're desire is true - it is a law of nature that all intelligent, unceasing, relentless, persistent effort invested in an endeavor will eventually yield results.
Yes enlightenment is a letting go, but one would be wrong to think that there's a letting go into some sort of tamasic state of being lazy or not putting much in. If you read the autobiographies of many who've moved beyond identification with body and mind, they gave up everything for that attainment, and were completely uncompromising in prioritizing that goal. Surrender ultimately happens, but the surrender is surrender of attachment to outcomes, a surrender of all your ideas and beliefs, a surrender of the idea that you are a doer and in control, but not a "no point in doing anything so I'll just chill out and do something else" which is merely laziness and giving up. At first your bhakti may be frantic. But as inner silence grows, your desires will lose their frantic quality, and they'll become unstoppable forces, arising from a non-ego centered stillness, that instantly and naturally manifests harmonious results.
AYP works, and it works quickly. If you have a true desire for enlightenment, and you're willing to sacrifice everything for it, to die for it, the results you'll achieve in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years of spiritual practices will be unbelievable.
Nisargadatta Maharaj: Spent three years, day-in, day-out, for every waking moment, during which whatever thought arose he just turned attention away from it and to the sense of "I Am". Can you imagine 3 years of just turning attention to "I Am" sense irrespective of what thought arises? That is an intense effort.
Adyashanti: Gave his life to Zen, and used to spend from 4am to Midnight meditating every single day. Intense effort.
Yes there are those who seemingly 'just woke up', but undoubtedly they expended effort in past lives. Obviously at some point intense effort yields to total surrender, and there's often a paradox to walk between "one pointed concentration" yet "non-straining" but rarely can one begin their spiritual search at the point of surrender, intense constructive effort is often required first.
One should free oneself from likes and dislikes and engage oneself in righteous self-effort and reach the supreme truth, knowing that self-effort alone is another name for divine will. - Yoga Vasistha |
Edited by - mr_anderson on Aug 05 2013 08:16:24 AM |
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unfortunately, enlightenment only for few
