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johnwinner
Canada
7 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 11 2013 : 7:45:56 PM
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It's been 3 years now that I alternate between ecstasy and pain. (real pain!) I've red about someone who suffer from kundalini for 7 years now!
I tried to stop meditation/yoga, it doesn't work, the energy is always there, 24/7. I can't sleep well, I must pay attention of what I eat, I lost weight (which in my case is not a good news). The worst is that even if I could, I can't go back. Now that I experienced so much wonderful "states", now that I have "seen" so much, everything else is SO insignificant!
Thinking about the sooooooooooo few people being enlightened, I can't see why I wanted so badly to dive in this sh*t!
I feel very discouraged.
What's the point?! You really think you are that one person out of X millions who gonna end up fully enlightened?
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2013 : 04:19:25 AM
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Hi John,
Welcome to the forum!
Do you have a regular spiritual practice, and if so, what is it?
Christi |
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johnwinner
Canada
7 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2013 : 05:38:23 AM
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Thanks Christi and sorry for such a negative intro. ;)
I'm into Hatha & Vinyasa yoga. I also do a lot of yoga nidra or what I call "horizontal meditation".
I would take any encouragement and "success" stories if you have any.
PS: did you know that Krishnamurti after 60 years of "teaching" said that nobody "got it"? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2013 : 08:09:27 AM
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Hi John,
If I were you I would develop a more advanced practice in order to stabilize the energies (kundalini) and to cultivate inner silence. Adding spinal breathing pranayama (lesson 41) to your current practice would help to stabilize things and gently coax your spiritual experience towards one of ecstasy instead of pain. Adding a meditation practice (if you don't have one already) would help to cultivate equanimity, peace and the silent witness (lesson 13). Then you would worry less about how few people have become enlightened and become more fascinated by the enlightenment rising within you. 
When people reach a certain stage on their path, they become very quiet, and don't speak much about their own attainments. So there could be quite a few more people than you think out there who are reaping the benefits of the enlightened state.
Krishnamurti was right- he taught for 60 years, and nobody "got it". Enlightenment is not something you can get. It is a giving away. You give away so much that you have absolutely nothing left. It's a process of "letting go", of falling into grace.
Krishnamurti was an advaita teacher, and that is a particularly advaitin slant on the process of enlightenment. In fact it is just as true to say that you gain the whole kingdom. So don't let advaitin speak confuse you. When you are ready, it will make sense, but before then it can be a minefield of confusion.
Christi
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johnwinner
Canada
7 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2013 : 11:15:16 AM
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This all make so much sense.
When I'm "high" I can't care less about the number of enlightened people!
The Path is so full of paradoxes, wording and viewpoints, my intellect is often lost.
I'll read less and meditate more!
Thank you so much Christi! 
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2013 : 11:47:12 AM
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quote:
did you know that Krishnamurti after 60 years of "teaching" said that nobody "got it"?
this is so beautifully said |
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NJL
31 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2013 : 1:40:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by johnwinner
This all make so much sense.
When I'm "high" I can't care less about the number of enlightened people!
The Path is so full of paradoxes, wording and viewpoints, my intellect is often lost.
I'll read less and meditate more!
Thank you so much Christi!
Hey John, sorry to hear you're having so much trouble with the k.
Christi is right on when he says that you should try to develop a practice that will stabilize the energy. This is important for your emotional and intellectual wellbeing.
Even the most extreme cases of k overload will even out in time. Three years is not so long. I advocate stepping away from the analysis of enlightenment and just let go, as Christi says, because that is what the process is all about. |
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johnwinner
Canada
7 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2013 : 5:48:38 PM
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| Thank you NJL, your support is appreciated. |
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lufa1212
India
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 14 2013 : 02:25:19 AM
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That was so beautifully explained, Christi.
Have been with AYP since many years now, am well acquainted with the sparkling wisdom that flows within the AYPites...still get amazed with the endearingly simplistic ways of explaining certain confusing questions that many of us come by now and again... sooo many of you come out with clarity that is startingly beautiful...
Thanks
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2013 : 06:40:34 AM
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I think the concept of enlightenment can be confusing, because it is a word that the mind tries to grasp, and yet the mind changes during enlightenment, and meanings change. The ego decides what 'being enlightened' is, and looks for that in other people to decide if they are enlightened, and if I should copy them.
I have gone through stages from thinking practically nobody is enlightened, to lots of people are, and from 'enlightenment is the most important thing in the world', to 'there is no such thing as enlightenment'.
My current feeling is that enlightenment is simply straightening out malfunctions in our natural state of being.
That satisfies both the 'most important' concept and the 'no such thing' concept at the same time. Of course it tends to hurt the ego, who wants to think it makes you magical and god-like, not just 'normal'.
That's where the ego is wrong, because 'magical and god-like' IS our normal state. |
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NJL
31 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2013 : 11:11:42 AM
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Good point Etherfish.
My understanding is that enlightenment is the process of the expansion of consciousness as part of human evolution. As individuals, we can experience enlightenment in general even when there are bits and pieces that are stuck in stone age values. Enlightenment doesn't affect all of us, it only affects the parts of us that are ready to change.
According to this view, most people are experiencing some form of enlightenment right now, in all probability. While very few are perhaps completely enlightened. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2013 : 11:22:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
That's where the ego is wrong, because 'magical and god-like' IS our normal state.
Very wise words. Thanks. |
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johnwinner
Canada
7 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2013 : 1:46:52 PM
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As for what really is enlightenment I agree that there is a lot of confusion. It's even more confusing when your first language is not english! Personally when I talk about enlightenment (more about the "goal" than the definition) I'm always referring to what is written in Hatha Yoga Pradipika: "radical and definitive end of human suffering of any kind". Nothing less!
I think it's safe to say that the suffering is always there but there is nobody who suffers.
In brief, for me, an enlightened person has no more "ego", has direct access to the reality, is no more affected by what happens in life.
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2013 : 10:48:52 PM
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No matter what, so long as one is still incarnate in a body, then one has some remnant of ego, and one still suffers. How one experiences that suffering, how it affects us and how we react to it is what changes in this slow steady journey from shadow to light, from illusion to reality. Also, one continues to be "affected by what happens in life." When my children are unhappy, it affects me! When a tragedy such as the Sandy Hook massacre occurs, of course one is affected, no matter their state of awareness. And also, remember that "enlightenment" is not some magical end result, but a continuing unfolding of life, an ongoing blossoming of energy, creativity, intelligence, silence, tolerance and acceptance. It's not some, "Poof!" and you are THERE. There is no "there"! It's just Life gaining more and more of Itself, moment by moment, day by day, year by year. Nothing changes whatsoever but one's point of view...
Namaste,
Michael |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2013 : 07:45:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
No matter what, so long as one is still incarnate in a body, then one has some remnant of ego, and one still suffers. . . .
Yes, I think we need some ego in order to maintain our body and be in the same reality as other bodies. But as long as i maintain faith in God, I really don't see myself as suffering. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2013 : 08:18:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
No matter what, so long as one is still incarnate in a body, then one has some remnant of ego, and one still suffers.
Hi Michael,
Like Etherfish, I would also disagree. Suffering is percieved because one is not "in the moment". They are projecting past concepts/memories into a percieved/expected future. If one stays focused in the moment (some Buddhists call this Rigpa), there is no suffering, just stuff to do (or wood to chop).
Best wishes, Jeff |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2013 : 12:45:43 PM
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Suffering... I think you are misinterpreting this term. In Buddhism, the Pali word, dukkha, means "incapable of satisfying" or "not able to bear or withstand anything": always changing, incapable of truly fulfilling us or making us happy. The sensual world is like that, a vibration in nature. It would, in fact, be terrible if we did find satisfaction in the sensory world because then we wouldn’t search beyond it; we’d just be bound to it. However, as we awaken to this dukkha, we begin to find the way out so that we are no longer constantly trapped in sensory consciousness. This is the First Noble Truth of Buddhism--that suffering exists and is a part of life. The rest of the Four Noble Truths nare how to mitigate and transcend this suffering--we do not, however remove it--it remains, we simple transcend it...
Michael |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2013 : 2:18:28 PM
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Hi Michael,
If one has an "aversion" to the world/existence, one is not following the noble truths of Buddhism. Many Buddhists would say that once one has quieted the mental obstructions of the mind (sem), there is no longer such a thing as the perception of suffering. Tibetian buddhism describes the concept of Rig Pa, where one "resides" in the natural state (in the world), but has not yet finished the "escape from existence" through finishing the "completion stage" or Mennagde,
Best, Jeff |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2013 : 8:49:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
Suffering... I think you are misinterpreting this term. In Buddhism, the Pali word, dukkha, means "incapable of satisfying" or "not able to bear or withstand anything": always changing, incapable of truly fulfilling us or making us happy.
These are all malfunctions of the mind. If you are in the moment, you would never experience any of these. They are all derived from comparing reality to some imaginary concept that is not real.
quote:
The sensual world is like that, a vibration in nature. It would, in fact, be terrible if we did find satisfaction in the sensory world because then we wouldn’t search beyond it; we’d just be bound to it. . . .
That's not my experience. I find the sensory world and nature to be quite satisfactory, and I find no need to search beyond it. But i am not at all bound to it. I just have faith in God, and he brings me sensory things, and also beyond sensory things, and there is no compulsion to look elsewhere.
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2013 : 01:49:10 AM
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Hi Ether,
sorry to bump into this discussion,
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
That's not my experience. I find the sensory world and nature to be quite satisfactory, and I find no need to search beyond it.
I too find it quite satisfactory  . But I am really surprised that
you find no need to search beyond it. Myself I have a strong
longing to search in it and beyond it. Isn't the soul beyond Nature
and aren't you searching for God ?
regards
Wolfgang |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2013 : 01:54:32 AM
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| i think first there is dissatisfaction ,we realize that the sensory world is not bringing us any lasting happiness, that is why we start searching/longing/doing yoga....and then at some point when some inner silence has araised we are perfectly satisfied with eveything that is at hand including the sensory world.... it is like going back to square one,seemingly a paradox but it is not a paradox....we move from negation,not this not that, than into Unity where eveything is integrated as One |
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vijikr
United Arab Emirates
413 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2013 : 03:01:22 AM
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May be that's the reason Surrendering oneself to THAT with complete faith and complete undoubtful surrender transcends the ego to reach the Goal(call whatever name with it either enlightenment or eternal blissful state etc)
Because I myself have experienced what Mahaeshwari has said ie first not accepting then searching and in the ending come to the same place and accepting it.
May all Attain THAt Eternal Bliss
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2013 : 08:06:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Wolfgang
Hi Ether,
sorry to bump into this discussion,
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
That's not my experience. I find the sensory world and nature to be quite satisfactory, and I find no need to search beyond it.
I too find it quite satisfactory . But I am really surprised that
you find no need to search beyond it. Myself I have a strong
longing to search in it and beyond it. Isn't the soul beyond Nature
and aren't you searching for God ?
regards
Wolfgang
No need to be sorry; you are welcome to bump into any discussion!
I search to explore; not looking "for" anything- just fascinated at everything. I like to change things in my world just to see what happens.
Not searching for God, no, he is always with me.
I don't understand "Isn't the soul beyond nature."? |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2013 : 08:14:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
i think first there is dissatisfaction ,we realize that the sensory world is not bringing us any lasting happiness, that is why we start searching/longing/doing yoga....and then at some point when some inner silence has araised we are perfectly satisfied with eveything that is at hand including the sensory world.... it is like going back to square one,seemingly a paradox but it is not a paradox....we move from negation,not this not that, than into Unity where eveything is integrated as One
Yes that sounds like what happened to me. The "lasting" part of happiness turned out to be a malfunction of the mind. Like "sure, I'm happy now, but what about tomorrow?" But tomorrow is never here. The mind tries to play God and set things up for later but it doesn't know what will happen later, and it can't be here now. |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2013 : 2:16:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
quote:
Originally posted by Wolfgang
Hi Ether,
sorry to bump into this discussion,
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
That's not my experience. I find the sensory world and nature to be quite satisfactory, and I find no need to search beyond it.
I too find it quite satisfactory . But I am really surprised that
you find no need to search beyond it. Myself I have a strong
longing to search in it and beyond it. Isn't the soul beyond Nature
and aren't you searching for God ?
regards
Wolfgang
No need to be sorry; you are welcome to bump into any discussion!
I search to explore; not looking "for" anything- just fascinated at everything. I like to change things in my world just to see what happens.
Not searching for God, no, he is always with me.
I don't understand "Isn't the soul beyond nature."?
Well, with "nature" I am referring to the physical world
and searching for the soul or for God is searching beyond the physical world.
But as you are not searching, my question is kind of pointless.
For me, searching is a longing to be 24H7D in union with god,
and as long as I am not there, I am still searching ...
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2013 : 9:39:11 PM
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I wonder if 'longing' could be reinforcing a concept that you are not with God in the moment?
Maybe devotion is better.
It is not tangible for me; not something I can point to and say "this proves God is with me always."
But it is in my head- a series of hundreds of things over years that prove to me that God is always here.
I can forget about him and lose connection for a time, but if I keep god in mind often, there is a delay, then later I know he is here. Also he wordlessly tells me "You are taken care of - always and forever". I don't know how it is possible to transmit that without words, but there is no question in my mind as to the meaning.
That's really all the union I need. It's always up to me whether i stay close to God or not, and i like it that way.
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What's the point, so few people being enlightened!
