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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 25 2006 : 11:12:24 AM
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Hi Renukaprasad,
If you are convinced that someone is harming you, please listen to what Ether is telling you..
quote:
Ether said : That's exactly the kind of thing that can be solved by another magician. They can either protect you from receiving the bad energy, or send equally bad energy back to him.
If you do not know anyone who can do this.. contact Dave (riptiz) he may be able to send you some positive energy to overcome this negative energy
You have to take the first step my dear. No one can help you if you don't. Remember, as long as you sit back and agree to be a victim, there is no power that can protect you. You have to decide on your own, in your heart that you will not be a victim any more.. then people can help you and most important, you can help yourself.
I know I am out of my league here when it comes to black magic. but coming from India.. I have seen a lot of this black magic stuff. A lot of it is self induced.. as Meg said.. fear.. but there are some really dark sages.. tantrics.. that have been said to cause harm to people. It is really stuff I don't understand and don't want to understand.. But I think, if you are ready to fight this off.. you can do it.. with help if required.. but the first decision has to be yours.. the first step you have to take.. the whole world will be there to help you.. but only when you are ready to ask and accept help.
Sorry if I sound rude, I know you are in a bad situation, and hearing this may not be the easiest thing to accept.. but this is the fact you need to realize. Wake up.. do something for yourself.. decide that you will not be a victim any more and get some help if required.
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Edited by - Shanti on Jun 25 2006 11:17:06 AM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2006 : 12:00:56 PM
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Hi All,
I don't think one should dismiss BM as phooey. If so then we may as well say the shakti does not exist as there is no scientific proof.When one starts in chi gung you are taught to visualise the energy running through the body and eventually you can feel it.Is this self induced hypnosis? Anyone who believes it is absolute rubbish may want to volunteer to be a test case and allow others on here to use them to prove or disprove BM.Any takers?
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes'
http://cdbaby.com/cd/omdasji
http://dhyanyogi.omdasji.googlepages.com/home |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2006 : 12:07:57 PM
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Dave,
Lets not make this personal. Every one has a right to their opinion. When someone asks for help in an open forum, they are going to get both sides of the story. In an open forum, you learn to accept what you want and believe.. reject what you dont like.
Please lets not get into "Anyone who believes it is absolute rubbish may want to volunteer to be a test case and allow others on here to use them to prove or disprove BM.Any takers?"
Sorry if I sound curt. Lets just try and help Renukaprasad, and let him decide who he wants to believe and who he wants to dismiss.
-Shweta.
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Edited by - Shanti on Jun 25 2006 12:38:05 PM |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2006 : 12:55:20 PM
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Shanti wrote:
quote:
Please lets not get into "Anyone who believes it is absolute rubbish may want to volunteer to be a test case and allow others on here to use them to prove or disprove BM.Any takers?"
Shanti, you are too nice. But franky I really don't mind to be a volunteer on this. In fact that's what I intended to say, just didn't since I don't want to sound rude.
By the way, before anyone would try to test anything in a distance on me, let me tell you guys that I had many ocassions where someone challenges me in such ways. Stuffs like Astrology, Black Magic, curse, .......
The results? I always appeared happily before them after a disaster that never occured, and asked them to use statistical methods (which, by the way, they never understand) before they claim anything in the future.
When I look back, I think everyone involved is too childish--including me. Why bother to challenge them when I already know what would happen? Black Magic is nonsense for me, but why do I have to convince them?
And yet, if you would like to, I could be the volunteer. One condition, however: specify what you are going to "curse" first. Otherwise you could attribute everything to your black magic. You know, I have cursed myself that I will die in 90 years. And I truly believe it will happen.  |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2006 : 1:24:44 PM
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Hi All:
"Choice" is the key word in all of this -- what we choose for ourselves.
What do we do when we find ourselves in a situation we'd rather not be in? Do we stay and try to work it out, try and fight off whatever we think is after us, or do we just let it go and move on?
Of course, every situation is different. Often times, working things out or fighting things off can lead to endless complexity and entanglement. Maybe it is worth it if a loved one, dear friend, or our livelihood is at stake. It may be our karma to be in a hazardous environment long term for the sake of the greater good, or at least what we conceive that to be.
On the other hand, there will be times (lots of times) when ignorant forces accost us. Should we bargain with them, marshal an army of ideas and assistants to fend them off, or do we just hang up the phone when that pointless invasion of our life comes?
I mean, the kind of invasion being discussed here is pointless, isn't it? Why give it the time of day? Maybe we should delete this whole topic and be done with it. Poof! Gone.
I once had a powerful guru, or, rather, he thought he had me. It turned out his teachings, on balance, were not consistent with my beliefs or needs, so I decided to disassociate, to step back. But he refused, and cast one of those "You are mine forever!" spells on me. So, over the next year or so, I managed to ignore him, moving on to other things, and in the end he left me alone. He has since passed away. Now I can remember him fondly, and some of his teachings have been a help to AYP, while the rest have been let go.
The point of the story is that if we choose to let something go, and are willing to be consistent in our intention, we can do it. It may take some time for all the psychic hooks to be dissolved, but it can be done, and it is a guarantee of no further hooks, because we have developed the habit of having no attachment.
It is a lot like meditation. In fact, deep meditation builds our ability to let go of negative influences all around, because we learn to let go procedurally in favor of something much more life-supporting and joyful within us -- inner silence/pure bliss consciousness. As mentioned by others in this topic, meditation gradually builds our sense of self beyond all the ups and downs of life. Beyond all the ups and downs.
I know it may be hard to imagine ignoring something like an "evil spell." Yet, it is our attention that makes it stronger. It is like the religious sects that fear the devil so much that the devil becomes their religion. Why is it so hard to see that we can simply walk away and disassociate ourselves from such foolish things?
Well, it will be good to meditate twice daily and work on that over the long haul, along with all the rest we are doing to improve the quality and depth of our life. Fighting devils, demons and evil spells makes for great drama, but doesn't contribute much to our spiritual growth.
Keep in mind that the poisonous snake on the ground there is not a snake at all, only a rope that we have mistakenly identified as a snake, and chosen to make a big drama of.
Suggestion: Favor the practice (the yoga one) over the scenery, no matter how good or bad that scenery is. It is your choice to make...
Just some food for thought.
The guru is in you.
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2006 : 1:26:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by riptiz
I don't think one should dismiss BM as phooey. If so then we may as well say the shakti does not exist as there is no scientific proof.
Dave - the difference between Shakti and black magic is tremendous. One is life energy and provides us with spiritual growth; the other is negative energy with destructive intention behind it. One emanates from the source of all creation; the other emanates from ego, selfishness, jealousy, etc. It's the difference between the ego and the Self - one is a drop in the ocean, and the other is the ocean itself.
The jealous person who Renu believes has infected him is pushing his weight around like a tortured teenager with a raging ego. His power lies in the unfortunate fact that Renu believes in his power over him. I'm sorry if this is offensive, Renu, but please know that we all care for your well-being, or else we wouldn't be spending so much time with this. The sooner that you can detach from this person in your mind, the sooner he will lose his power over you. Darkness cannot penetrate the light, so the more light you can bring to your mind, the sooner you'll find peace. You can find someone to do it for you, like Ether has suggested, but that too will be a placebo. The best way to find peace within is to open up to healing, light, and love, and then this guy will have no power over you whatsoever.
Will I offer myself up as a guinea pig? No, b'c to do so would be to acknowledge and tempt their powers, which is would be foolhardy indeed. Neither would I run headlong into a busy intersection, believing myself to be invincible b'c I'm a child of the light. I don't believe that BM is 'phooey' - as I said in my earlier post, I'm sure that it is experienced by other practitioners of BM. I simply think that it's not effective on people who give it no power in their lives. In a world of infinite beauty and grace which emanates from an eternal source of love, it is highly unlikely that those who are connected to that source are susceptible to getting sucked into a vortex of darkness and despair, simply because some jealous high priest or little brat decides to blast him with BM skills. It just doesn't make sense - intuitively, psychically, or scientifically.
Renu - try thinking about this guy differently, if you can. Keep telling yourself that his darkness is just a drop in an ocean of light, and that your mind is filled with this light. See if that helps any. If not, follow Ether's advice. |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2006 : 2:14:28 PM
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Hi ,
It seems I touched a sore point here.Asking for a volunteer was tongue in cheek. The point I was trying to make was it is easy to dismiss things we don't believe in just as easily as it is to try to convince others of things we believe in.Give me scientific proof validated by bonafide scientists that shakti exists(regardless of what type of energy it 'is'). Who says it is life force, the scientists dismiss awakening as psycosis and don't believe in any of the eastern mystics.It is only since Quantum physics arrived that they are looking more seriously.Look at quackwatch if you really want to read scepticism.I prefer to write about what I know from experiences and not hearsay else how could I believe that shakti was real.Reading books will give you plenty of knowledge but theory is no good on it's own.Just because scientists have not proven something doesn't mean they are correct.
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes'
http://cdbaby.com/cd/omdasji
http://dhyanyogi.omdasji.googlepages.com/home |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2006 : 2:25:54 PM
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| Hey Dave - fwiw, you didn't touch a sore point - I knew you had a smile on your face when you asked for a volunteer - it just gave me context to spout my opinions on the subject. :) Shakti shows up in some peoples' lives who have never heard the word kundalini - who are completely ignorant on the subject. Here's a tongue-in-cheek challenge for you (or anyone): Can you come up with a person who has suffered the ills of BM, who has had no prior knowledge or interest in the subject? If so, I may give it more credit. No promises. |
Edited by - Manipura on Jun 25 2006 2:28:11 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2006 : 3:39:55 PM
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Bravo to nearly everyone on the thread (including Scott, quoted below) for expressing their different beliefs without having to mix it with disrespect.
Scott said:
However, I'm not too quick to assume that people who find they've been cursed are stupid, or that they are causing it to happen to themselves. If bad things are happening to them, then that's what's actually happening, regardless of their mindset. If they don't believe in the curse, but it seems to be happening to them, then it may have been a real curse! I mean, if we believe in Siddhis here why don't we believe in the power to negatively effect someone's life? To magically make things go horribly wrong for that person? It certainly is possible.
Well Scott, I'm certainly not calling any of them stupid. I believe what I do about black magic without being disrespectful of people who believe otherwise. Some years ago, I'd have been more inclined to believe in what we might call the 'magic factor' in black magic, but now I am more inclined to believe it is only placebo. Why would I disrespect people who believe in the magic? I don't disrespect what I once was.
Even if I believe it is placebo-effect, I wouldn't say they are 'causing it to happen to themselves' either. That language too strongly suggests agency and autonomy and consciousness, to be applicable, as I see it.
There are all sorts of angles you can come in with here. Louis, who does seem to believe in the magic factor, still believes that one of the best defenses against it is not believing in it.
Regarding the siddhis, I am a skeptic there too. But it doesn't matter. There is actually plenty of scope for believing that miracles are possible, but curses do not really work. In fact, plenty of people do believe this way.
Yes, Dave was being jocular in looking for volunteers to have Black Magic practiced on them; but I would like to join Alvin in being a willing subject. Like Alvin, I would just like to stipulate that agreement be arrived on in just how I am going to get hurt, and over what period. We must advance a criterion for failure and success.
Just to clear up another point: if people self-report suffering from a black magic curse, their symptoms can be caused by any combination of the following:
(i) The placebo effect of the curse
(ii) The weegie-weegie power (magical power) of the person who is cursing them (I don't believe that this is real myself)
(iii) Completely unrelated causes
This means that there is no simple conclusion to be made about the causes of their problems, regardless of what you believe in. So a person like me, who doesn't believe in the weegie-weegie power does not necessarily believe that a person who is self-reporting problems from black magic is necessarily suffering only from placebo effect; they could just be ill for other reasons.
However, if there is negative placebo effect playing into the story, reversing it can help. This could be done by either learning to not believe in the bad witch-doctors evil weegie-weegie power, or alternatively believing in the good witch-doctor's good ju-ju.
So, just as Louis, who does seem to believe in the magic, believes that not believing in it could sometimes be helpful to someone who thinks they are being cursed, I, who do not believe in it, believe that sometimes using the belief in it could be helpful (if the belief is turned around into a belief in someone elses good ju-ju power).
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jun 25 2006 4:21:09 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2006 : 4:40:45 PM
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| What if someone in a previous life had been a very well known black magician, and had caused great harm to hundreds of people, just because they believed he could do it? What do you think his karma would be in this life? |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2006 : 4:44:19 PM
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Whatever we believe will be true for us in the moment, but whether it is "the truth" or not is another question entirely.
The former is an easy seduction we are all prone to fall into. The latter is a much deeper question that transcends all beliefs, institutions and events, and our physical existence itself...
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2006 : 5:37:09 PM
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That's what makes this existence so exciting and intriguing. The fact that it is an illusion, and the illusion is skewed by our perception of it. I went to school with a writer of "The Crow" screenplay. I love this kind of stuff. Of course I advocate meditation and communion with God to put us in a safe place, instead of being filled with fear when we see these things.
It makes great story material for God to watch:
Bruce Lee's parents were superstitious. They first named Bruce with a girl's name to confuse evil spirits who might try to kidnap him.
Years before his death his parents learned of a curse against the Lee
family and hired a chinese priest to get rid of the curse. He did all
kinds of magic around their house, and finished by hanging a metal
chinese symbol over their door, and said as long as the symbol stays upright, the Lee's will be free of evil spirits. Shortly before Bruce Lee's death, there was a violent windstorm that loosened the emblem and caused it to swing around and hang upside down. The Lee's didn't notice it until after Bruce's death. He died of swelling of the brain, and no cause was found.
Years later when James O'Barr of Detroit was sixteen, he met the love of his life, and they planned to marry after graduation. But when she was two weeks shy of eighteen, she was struck and killed by a drunk driver, and O'Barr went into a tailspin of anger and poisoned soul. Writing "The Crow" comics was his therapy, the way he worked that poison out of his life. The curse of the Crow was that evil could be revenged even after the death of its victims.
The Crow comics became the basis for The Crow movie, starring Bruce Lee's Son, Brandon.
The filming of the movie was filled with mishaps. A carpenter,
in a cherry picker, was electrocuted when his crane struck a high-power line. Though severely burned, he survived. A dissatisfied worker rammed his vehicle through the plaster shop, causing extensive damage that had to be fixed. Another worker stumbled and impaled a screwdriver through his hand. A stunt man fell
through the roof of one of the sets and broke several bones. The grip truck burst into flames, destroying much of the cab's interior and equipment; and had to be replaced . And on and on...
When it came time for Brandon to play his death in the movie, he walked in on the set of a man raping his girlfriend, as written in the script. The man swung around and shot Brandon. Due to a low budget they used firearms from the pawn shop where they filmed some of the show.
The gun that was used had been shot before, but the charge was a dud. A bullet was lodged in the barrel.
When the firearms expert loaded the gun with blanks, he didn't notice that the blank had a projectile ahead of it. Brandon's death was played realistically, and the director didn't notice until later that Brandon didn't get up. They thought he was playing. There was very little blood, and only in the ER did they find that there was a bullet lodged against his spine. Had it been an inch to either side, he would have lived. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2006 : 8:44:15 PM
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here's how my mind played tricks with me on this subject:
here's how I was helped out of a situation like that years ago when I believed in magic. i took a job where I was to be trained to manage a chain store. The training was to be two years, and if I did well I would get a store to manage. Halfway through the program, they sent in another management trainee to work with me. I was OK with sharing the job, alternating schedules, and we were assured we weren't competing. But the other guy insisted on competition and backstabbing. I'm a passive guy, and I figured if they couldn't see my abilities, then I would move on to someone who would. I just ignored the other guys games, and tried to be friends with him, which he constantly rebuked.
Then a strange thing happened. At night I felt strange things like pressure on my head, and would wake up thinking of him. There was a lot of stress in my love life at the time too that may have contributed. Finally one night I woke up violently, in a cold sweat, and in a lucid dream state.
I had been in that state many times before to astral project. But this time I had been dreaming that my competitor had injured me somehow near my navel, and on waking in the lucid state there
was a huge hole there and my energy was rushing out with the roar of a wind storm. I felt if it continued I would die. No matter how
I tried to cover the hole or roll over, nothing helped. I tried over and over to WILL it to stop, which seemed to have a cumulative effect, and suddenly it subsided and i went back to sleep.
The next day I found a dirty little piece of paper on the street with a printed ad for a gypsy who could "stop bad spells and curses". I though it was BS, but because of the synchronicity, I went there.
She said "Where'd you get this, I haven't had these for two years and I operate out of my office now." She gave me some stuff to burn and mumbo jumbo to do around my house for three days. I thought
it was a total rip off. Nothing about her seemed powerful. I believed in magic, but thought it was inside us by stopping our thoughts, not by spells and candles.
But the next day things were completely different at work. The competitor said something happened in his personal life and he would have to drop out. He completely changed his personality, and was trying to be friendly and no sign of competition. I never had any night incidents again, and years later I saw him and he greeted me like a close friend.
It completely baffled me what had happened. i only went to the gypsy because of synchronicity, which I believed in, not her magic. Even when I did her mumbo jumbo around the house, I was just thinking
of not wasting my money, but I totally disbelieved that it would work. I felt ripped off. But it solved my problem. To this day I wonder what would have happened if I just threw the paper away. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2006 : 11:26:47 PM
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He did all
kinds of magic around their house, and finished by hanging a metal
chinese symbol over their door, and said as long as the symbol stays upright, the Lee's will be free of evil spirits. Shortly before Bruce Lee's death, there was a violent windstorm that loosened the emblem and caused it to swing around and hang upside down. The Lee's didn't notice it until after Bruce's death. He died of swelling of the brain, and no cause was found.
If this story is really true, one wonders why the highly superstitios family did not have the brains to nail the emblem to the wall in two places.
But superstitious people do so many things that there is almost always room for some sort of confirmation for them of their superstition. Superstitious people love confirmation of their superstitions. Magical beliefs can be a kind of addiction.
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2006 : 12:22:27 AM
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It is very easy to tell and spread story about siddhis, black magic, etc. They will roll and grow like a snow ball.
Yogani wrote:
quote:
Whatever we believe will be true for us in the moment, but whether it is "the truth" or not is another question entirely.
Agree. It is a misery if we cannot distinguish what's just "true for us" (I usually won't call this "truth". It's just sematic, though.) and what's "the truth".
The difference? Easy: "the truth" applies regardless of whether you believe it or not. It doesn't matter whether you believe in gravity and other physical laws: you will just die or hurt yourself falling from 100 meter up. While what's "true for you" (like black magic) hardly have any influence other than you or anyone who believe in it. I frequently broke the "rules" of superstitious traditions, sometimes intentionally. And if anything happened at all, they are all positive. It is a rejection against any superstitious thoughts. Unlike the laws in physics, they have effects if and only if you let them grow in your mind.
I just cannot imagine how people could spend 20 years reading hundreds of books on Black Magic, Astrology,... and REALLY BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE DEVELOPED POWER , while from the outside, it's so obvious that they are trying hard to convince themselves!
If they practice Magic(illusion) instead of Magick(paranormal) for 20 years, they would have get something! Not just something in their mind.
The same goes for siddhis. I don't dismiss it as impossible. But so far what I've seen are really just some tricks.(including all well-known siddhis in different traditions, like walking on the fire, standing on knife, swallowing bulbs) Some guru in india even perform Magic(illusion) to convince their followers. The only exception is that some Chi Kung masters can really harden their muscles to an amazing level and perform some "real" tricks. But it's not paranormal in my standard. |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on Jun 26 2006 12:46:09 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2006 : 01:08:47 AM
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Absolute truth is a very limited concept. The more you try to narrow it down, the less true it is.
If a person has strong enough beliefs, something can be true for them and no one else. The reason some things like gravity seem to be absolute truths is that almost everyone on earth *agrees* that they are true. It is a silent agreement we make as we absorb the belief systems of our culture as we grow up. Things people have not agreed upon are perceived differently by different people.
The reason siddhis and such are possible is that a person can move his belief systems outside the worldview of the masses. These beliefs can be strengthened either by bhakti and practice, or by fear and hate.
A person can strengthen his beliefs to the point that he doesn't believe in gravity anymore, and achieve levitation. But these feats come with consequences. If the practitioner is trying to move toward God, the question arises of what the purpose is of siddhis, and the answer is they are a distraction from the path.
Conversely a sorcerer can strengthen his beliefs so they are contrary to those of mankind in the realm of fear, and achieve paranormal feats, and that path leads not only away from God, but
away from mankind.
When either one of these people performs the seemingly impossible feat, if they don't have enough power to influence the beliefs of anyone watching, the watcher will not perceive the feat. A flying man will be seen as a big bird for instance. The watcher sees what his belief system tells him is possible.
When an individual gains enough power, or is in tune with the will of God, he is able to perform impossible feats and have an entire
audience witness the miracle. This usually occurs when it is not for the sake of a test, but it is God's will because the feat will somehow influence the people involved in a positive way. Consequently they don't belong to the beliefs of science which relies on repeatability, and the necessity of phenomenon occurring without being tied to a reason. In the world of God's will, this does not exist. Phenomenon don't just randomly happen because of the laws of physics. Lifeforce, prana, or God is the impetus behind seemingly inanimate forces. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Jun 26 2006 01:13:59 AM |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2006 : 02:53:45 AM
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Ether, you are entering a realm of philosophy which is rather dangerous if you take it seriously, and live consistently with it. I don't think you do, however!
Our belief does have a great effect. But it only goes so far. Whether or not you can live on sunlight alone (with no food) is not quite dependent on your belief. I remember Yogani talking about a guy who honestly thought he could live on sunlight alone, and failed at last. Examples are many. Many people have a strong belief that they will win when they gamble. But such beliefs don't come in life, and the stronger their belief, the more miserable the outcome is.
There are many people in this world who confuse their belief (their own "truth", using your words) and the objective truth. The world may be changed by your belief, but only if you act it out and even then, only so much.
If you are not convinced that the universe usually doesn't care what you believe in, check out the book "The Darwin Awards".
Spiritual truth may be more subjective. But there are some objective truth. Whether you name it scientific or just common sense doesn't matter. And it doesn't matter whether you "believe in" gravitation or not. You don't even have to know the name "gravitation", and certainly not the theory behind. You are limited by it whether you know it or not. The uneducated is not better off: they will die when fall from 10000ft, even if they don't know why.
What's true is what's out there. The scientific theory is just a convenient way of packing the observations together. |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on Jun 26 2006 03:09:05 AM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2006 : 04:05:58 AM
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I do not know much about these things and it might be unwise of me to write, but what I have been told from different shamans is that light and darkness are neutral, none is "better" or "worse", universe exist of both and there are no values attached to them. We all have darkness and light within us and we have to acknowledge, accept and face our own darkness. As I have understood it some say this is an "emotional transformation" that has to take place in order to get a deeper understanding of the existence.
I have only just begun my spiritual journey and I seek knowledge in many places and talk to many persons from different "belief systems". (You people at this forum have helped me a lot!) What I have found fascinating is that ALL well-trained persons I have talked to have begun by saying: "Whatever I will tell you know may sound as if it is the TRUTH, but none of this is true, remember that". I understand now that those persons have known in their hearts what David_obsidian and Yogani and several others here are talking about... Everything is true from its own perspective at that certain time.
I have been told that as I keep on increasing my knowledge I will become better and better at creating my own truth. Some of them have been surprised that I have learned so quickly to manifest my thoughts. What I think, what I lay an intention on will become "TRUE". And as long as it is "healing" or giving "positive energies" to someone or stop the rain to fall etc it is fine. When crossing over the spiritual border it is often the light saying "welcome" accompanied by an experience of great love. But they have warned me that I will meet the darkness as well, and if I get scared at that moment I will manifest that reality as well. It may cause trouble, negative feelings and states (it was in one of those "states" I cried out for help in this forum a few weeks ago).
If I do not recognize the demons or negative feelings as my own I will belive they are being posed on me from the "outside" and I will as a consequence become very afraid. If one passes through the darkness one looses the fear of it and it will in turn loose its power. If you on the other hand get frightened, it "lives" on that fear and will be able to eventually manifest in numerous different ways. But it will only exist in the dimension where it was created. If one changes "dimension"; moves to another "space"; or chose another perspective they will not exist anylonger. (The film "Blueberry" with Juliette Lewis is about a man who does that "trip". Fascinating film.)
So from that shallow background of knowledge I associate to this talk about "black magic" in the following way: It could be interpreted as a "sign" that Renu is about to meet his inner darkness but does not dare to face it yet. What he feels is only reflections of his own darkness and he is laying the darkness outside of him instead of accepting it as something within himself. What the other man does is actually doing him a service - inviting him to acknowledge ALL of his being. If the man is "allied" with the darkness and calles himself a "black magician" he has placed himself in that dimension, is living that "truth" and functions as a catalyst awakening the darkness within others; he functions as a mirror. If Renu can see through that he will thank the man in the end for the tough but necessary lesson that will reveale more of the mystery of the existence.
I am talking a little bit from own experience. The relationship I am engaged in right now functions like that. My partner has many times been accused of being a man of Darkness, a sorcerer, using energy for his ego. But that is not true. When people start feeling awkward in his presence it is their own feelings and fears that are being awakened. He is SO happy that I can see through the strange things that are happening. I get mad, furious, hurt, angry, upset, whatever, and at first I lay it upon him. "You are doing this, which causes me to do or feel that". But after a while I realise that he has only triggered something very painful within myself and then sorrow comes, and love, and I can see that he is helping me to open old wounds in order to be able to SEE ALL OF ME. I am the first woman that he meets that can cope with his strong catalytic effect.
Is this mumbo jumbo to you? I hope not.
"The only devils in the world are those running around in our own hearts, and that is where all our battles ought to be fought"
Mahatma Gandhi |
Edited by - emc on Jun 26 2006 05:14:22 AM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2006 : 06:14:30 AM
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emc, I love your post.
I should really be at work, but because of synchonicity this morning I thought to relate this.
Two weeks ago I did a healing on a friend of mine, she had fallen and fractured her wrist.
She went home and took off the removable strap to wash. She found that all the bruising and swelling had completely gone. She had been told by the Doctor that it would take 3-4 weeks to go.
Last Friday evening, at our healing gathering, I did another healing. This morning she rang me during my meditation to inform me that she had just been to the hospital, had an x-ray, and the facture was completely gone.
So last week there was an x-ray with a fracture and now there is none.
I am honoured to be part of this and I (or not I) was just a small part, she herself and others in the group were also involved.
Could this be described as "the magic factor"?
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2006 : 4:13:25 PM
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I love what you said EMC. It came from your heart.. Are you sure you are new at this?
Louis said: "Could this be described as "the magic factor"?"
Good question Louis. I have often wondered about this too. |
Edited by - Shanti on Jun 26 2006 4:39:09 PM |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2006 : 6:56:14 PM
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| I would call that "The magic fracture" ;-) |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2006 : 7:17:05 PM
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David, the emblem was supposedly nailed at the top and bottom, and the top nail came loose in the storm.
Louis, absolutely the magic factor. However it was necessary for the girl to believe for the healing to work. Before Yogananda healed the now head of SRF, Daya Mata of some debilitating disease, he asked her "Do you believe God can heal you of this?" When she said absolutely, he healed her and the disease never came back.
EMC- don't be apologetic; just dive in there: you're doing great. if we say something dumb people will correct us, and we can take it back. Your views are quite valid.
I have seen the same type of lessons you are talking about, where i see that people who are thought of as bad aren't really. I believe the trick to dealing with all this good/evil stuff is to take it all lightly. If we see the whole world as just "scenery", and appreciate the beauty and complexity but don't get emotionally involved it's so much easier.
The hard part is that starts with taking very good stuff lightly. When we have extremely enlightening revelations for instance, instead of patting ourselves on the back, thinking "we're so much closer to God now", we should just say "Hmm, that's interesting,"
and return to our practices.
Then when all hell breaks loose, and all signs seem to point to our imminent demise, we won't have any trouble saying "Hmm, that's interesting," and return to our practices unscathed. |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2006 : 9:13:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
The relationship I am engaged in right now functions like that. My partner has many times been accused of being a man of Darkness, a sorcerer, using energy for his ego. But that is not true. When people start feeling awkward in his presence it is their own feelings and fears that are being awakened. He is SO happy that I can see through the strange things that are happening. I get mad, furious, hurt, angry, upset, whatever, and at first I lay it upon him. "You are doing this, which causes me to do or feel that". But after a while I realise that he has only triggered something very painful within myself and then sorrow comes, and love, and I can see that he is helping me to open old wounds in order to be able to SEE ALL OF ME. I am the first woman that he meets that can cope with his strong catalytic effect.
emc - Based upon what you've written here and in your first post, I would be very cautious about this man. Watch for signs of power control and manipulation. (I assume that he's the same guy you wrote about last week). Always trust your gut reactions in cases like this, and don't second-guess yourself. |
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NagoyaSea
424 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2006 : 9:28:55 PM
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Hi Renukaprasad,
I can sympathize with what you’re going through. Let me tell you a story about something that happened to me when I was a younger woman.
I’d heard stories and seen reports about unwanted spirits that dwelled in people’s homes. I had no idea if it was true or not. How could I know? I am a human with a human mind and I can only ‘know’ what I have experienced myself. Anyway, I didn’t think about it much because this was something that happened to other people, not me.
I moved into a home bringing my teenage son and daughter with me. After settling in, there were in my home what appeared to be three distinctly separate unseen entities living there besides my children and myself.
One entity I called Gladys. Her silhouette (of a woman) would silently move across the walls of my great room which was a kitchen and den and the adjoining dining room. Gladys was peaceful and just showed up and walked around. I never mentioned her to anyone. One evening, my daughter and I were watching television in the den with all the shutters shut and Gladys strolled by. I said nothing and made no note of it. Finally my daughter said, Mom, didn’t you see her? She’s always walking around here." I said that I did. My daughter said that the ghost in this room never frightened her, but was always peaceful.
The second entity we never saw and he wandered around the house whenever he wanted. I dubbed him “Sir Farts A Lot”. My daughter also heard him, but being kinder, named him “Passing Wind”. You may be laughing now, but God’s truth is being written here.  If I spoke back to Passing Wind after he made himself known by making his usual sounds, he would answer back sometimes with his trademark sound. 
I thought that I was the only one who felt the third entity. This entity felt dark and immensely evil and filled me with fear and dread when it appeared. It hung out in the upstairs. It only showed itself periodically in the dead of night. Sometimes I would wake and feel its powerful frightening presence and I would pray for protection for my children and myself. I don’t remember ever being so focused in my prayer. My daughter started sleeping with her light on. I asked why and she told me that there was a scary thing upstairs that she sometimes felt, only at night… I had to do something, to calm her fears….
I discussed it with some of my friends. One friend told me to politely ask the spirits to leave. I did twice. Gladys left and we haven’t seen her since.
Passing Wind is still with us and I’ve come to the conclusion that it is likely faulty pipes that are making noise that just seems to be coming from differing parts of the house and occasionally coincidentally occurs after I reply to it. 
But it was the dark thing frightening my daughter. So I asked my friends again how to rid my home of the evil thing.
A Jewish friend told me to pray. That didn’t work.
A Sufi friend told me to repeat the Zikr when Mr. Evil showed up. That didn’t work.
A Native American friend told me to perform a ceremony she gave me while burning sage sticks. I actually tried that.  It didn’t work.
A Wiccan friend told me to surround my house with a circle of salt and recite a chant she gave me. I didn’t try that one.
Another friend told me to stop being afraid. That this thing could not harm us. That my fear was causing any stress and negativity that I experienced.
This was the hardest advice to follow. I thought about it. This evil thing was, well I didn’t know what it was.
But I was spirit, eternal and filled with light and am part of all that is. My body might not be eternal, but “I” was. And I had nothing to be afraid of.
It was difficult at first, when I felt the evil, dark, presence come into my room to roll over, think, oh yeah, well, WhatEver, (in my best California valley voice) I’m going back to sleep now and then sleep.
I just had to realize that the only thing causing a problem in my life was my own fear and I had to let the fear go….. It wasn't easy. But it was the only thing that worked.
Blessings to you,
Kathy
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2006 : 10:35:02 PM
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Really enjoyable posts EMC and Kathy!
A
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Victim of black magic
