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Hunter
USA
252 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 16 2006 : 11:36:16 PM
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Hello to everyone,
I am taking an international relations course and, as a requirement, I read The Economist every week. I am really learning a lot about many subjects that the authors write about. Recently there was a 14 page survey of the up-and-coming status of India outlining specific topics like business process outsourcing, information technology, the manufacturing and agricultural sector, India's government, infrastructure, foreign interest, and much more... It is a very exciting subject. And apparently, the people responsible for this rapid economic and social progress are a very small minority of young entrepreneurs.
What do some of you think of this subject in relation to advanced yoga practice? I wonder if American and Indian cultures will influence each other more in each passing day? Also, perspectives from people who are native to the country?
I must say, I don't know exactly what I am trying to say or get at, perhaps I just like to have communication/ interaction with all of you people.
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2006 : 07:26:54 AM
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Dear Hunter,
From my view of India when I was there last year it appears the richer will get richer and the poorer will get poorer.Coincidentally I watched a TV report while there about the same thing happening in China since the industrial revolution.Many Indians are highly westernised (which I don't feel is particularly a good thing)and in fact are frowning at some of the traditional ways now. Avani,my guru's student had to dress in western clothes to return to her home city after shaktipat because her neighbours would have frowned if she was in traditional dress. I was not in a tourist area so I saw the 'normal' way of life for many.I think I would prefer this way rather than the materialistic ways of the west which are becoming predominat in many areas of India.
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes' |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2006 : 5:38:20 PM
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To spare myself writing, I'll quote Jim:
"A great many Indians are super eager capitalist materialists, and, until recently, yoga was something the average Indian had no exposure to (and vedanta was a painful class you had once a week with some old bearded swami dude, as dry and suffered-through as Catechism or Hebrew classes). The resurgence of interest in yoga (both dilute and serious), vedanta, and all that was fueled on the rebound from western seekers. <SNIP> To be sure, America has its share of greedy ditzy superficial people. And India's got some earnest seekers. But there's lots of everything in each of these large, diverse countries."
For my own part, I'd just say things are running their course. Most of Yoga came to us through India in some way or another, but it is no more the exclusive property of India than is Physics or Reason or Capitalism the exclusive property of 'The West'.
People in India, China, everywhere are looking for abundance in the material dimension. And they should. They are just doing those things that follow from the availability of those things the 'Western' world has had for some time.
The western economies have benefited from improving technology, free-market economics, individual liberty and have sucked up all the goodies that follow from that. Any other culture that gets those things will suck up the goodies that follow. It's human nature.
(The west has had some cheap energy too, and that might be hard to sustain and India and China might not get it so good, but we'll see, that's another story.)
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jun 17 2006 5:39:27 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2006 : 8:01:53 PM
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Hi Hunter,
Not sure if these will help you, see if you can get your hands on
1- March 6th 2006 edition of Newsweek
2- December 8th 2003 edition of BusinessWeek.
I think there was one Time magazine edition too.. but cannot remember which one..
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Hunter
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2006 : 8:59:17 PM
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Thank you David (david_obsidian), your post adds to my understanding, something that I can take to class with me.
Dave (riptiz), do you travel to India on a regular basis? Have you visited many of countries around the world? I appreciate your input.
Shanti,
Thank you for the references to the articles. I read the Newsweek article. |
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mysticyogi
17 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2006 : 11:15:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
To spare myself writing, I'll quote Jim:
"A great many Indians are super eager capitalist materialists, and, until recently, yoga was something the average Indian had no exposure to (and vedanta was a painful class you had once a week with some old bearded swami dude, as dry and suffered-through as Catechism or Hebrew classes). The resurgence of interest in yoga (both dilute and serious), vedanta, and all that was fueled on the rebound from western seekers. <SNIP> To be sure, America has its share of greedy ditzy superficial people. And India's got some earnest seekers. But there's lots of everything in each of these large, diverse countries."
For my own part, I'd just say things are running their course. Most of Yoga came to us through India in some way or another, but it is no more the exclusive property of India than is Physics or Reason or Capitalism the exclusive property of 'The West'.
People in India, China, everywhere are looking for abundance in the material dimension. And they should. They are just doing those things that follow from the availability of those things the 'Western' world has had for some time.
The western economies have benefited from improving technology, free-market economics, individual liberty and have sucked up all the goodies that follow from that. Any other culture that gets those things will suck up the goodies that follow. It's human nature.
(The west has had some cheap energy too, and that might be hard to sustain and India and China might not get it so good, but we'll see, that's another story.)
Well I do not agree completely with above views. In India you will see combination of both rich and poor. Just like any other country both kind of people will try to improve their living standard in terms of luxaries or money in general. Only major cities in India such as Mumbai, Delhi, Bangolore are technosavy. People there use smart gagets and are rich enough to enjoy luxaries in day to day life. However, vast majority lives in villages which are farmers or they run small scale industries. Just like everybody else they also try to improve their standard. Nothing wrong in it. Globalization is making impact on each and every country and in the process sharing of cultures is obvious.
Yoga is originated in India and there is still much more for westeners to learn from India in that zone. I do not agress that Indians do not have exposure to Yoga. There are many Indians who practice Yoga. I think this should not be counted in terms of population. For example if you expect a poor farmer to practice Yoga then he may laugh at you saying his first priority is to earn bread and butter. As far as Yoga and spirituality is concerned I don't think western countries can give anything to India yet. Just my 2 cents.
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2006 : 02:16:22 AM
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One good thing if you are born and bought up in india. You will hear the words yoga and meditation a lot and hence more chances of getting attracted to the path if you have a basic interest in self-development.
One good thing if you are a westerner is, everything is new to you and you will learn with curiosity on the subject. Some indians might feel they already know what yoga is (while they really dont) and hence dont even try to learn.
The chance of moving into spiritual path is more if you are in india. You read about it in classroom books, you see yoga classes outside, you hear about great yogis as much as about any celebrities, ppl commonly use the word karma, enlightenment in everyday usage etc...
-Near
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2006 : 05:09:56 AM
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Hi Hunter,
My dad was in the British army and I was born in Germany,and lived in Cyprus for about 4 yrs as a small child.I worked in Canada in 1975 for a few months and in Norway about 6 yrs ago for 3 months.
My visit to India was specifically to meet my guru and satguru Dhyanyogi Omdasji. My guru is a high level yogini who is very close to full realisation and lives in Ahmedabad, Gujarat about half an hour from guruji's ashram.I spent 10 days on the ashram , four of which were for shaktipat.(during which I wasn't allowed to leave the ashram)I visited many temples while there including temples/ashrams in or of Swami Narayan, Camp Hanuman,Triambuk, Shirdi,Nasik,Sivananda,guruji's ashram in Santa Cruz(Bombay),the cave where Sita was imprisoned in Nasik and many others. Strangely enough the only place I never felt any energies was in a Christian church in Nasik.All were fascinating places and gave out powerful energies.With God's grace I will return and my guru has many other places of vist planned.Although Hatha yoga seems well advertised and promoted, Kundalini is still something of an enigma and very few know much about it.We did see only one temple with signs of the shakti in it's decorations and carvings.While on the ashram I spoke to a young priest from the Himalayas who was surprisingly ignorant of Kundalini or even that guruji gave shaktipat although others had traveled from as far as the Himalayas for shaktipat.Unfortunately for them they had to wait for me to arrive before they recived it. hehehe. Bur seriously we were there for the birthday celebrations of Dhyanyogi Madhusudandasji who crossed in 1994 aged 117 yrs.Shaktipat was given sat around his mahasamadhi over 4 days and was an amazing experience.
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes' |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2006 : 07:25:06 AM
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In my early twenties I worked with Indian crews in the merchant navy and found them to have an underlying dept of spirituality which I had never experienced before.
At the age of twenty four I took charge of an engine room and thank God we had an Indian crew. They took me under their wing and looked after me in a way a parent would a child. It was a really nice feeling which I now recognise as compassion.
On the same ship the chap who served my meals would ask me to select what I wanted, he would then fill the plate and place his hand over the food for about ten of fifteen seconds. At the time I did not know what he was doing, but talk about ecstacy, I was in ecstacy as I eat my food on those days and it had a profound effect on me.
(as an aside it also gave me a deeper understanding of communion in mass and perhaps it's possibilities if a person with powerful healing hands was at the helm, accounts of mass with Padre Pio would indicate that this was going on during his masses)
These were ordinary guys from various parts of Nepal and other northern states in India, but they had something different, something beautiful. This is my experience of a small segment of India.
On the other hand, on a family holiday to the Canaries we came across the Indian mafia in action on the stalls and it was far from pleasant, not nice people.
On a global scale India has been a country in poverty with aid going to them in great quantities. It looks like most of the poor countries and continents, except for Africa, are getting the opportunity to grow economically and this will, in time, rise the boat for everyone in those countries. A time will come when no aid is required from the wealthy West to the impoverished Third World.
Why would anybody wish to keep a country in an impoverished state on the basis that it will maintain its spirituality.
In fact the early Christian missionaries recognised that the very first thing one does, is feed the poor, and when they are fed and strong they can be communicated with. No point in trying to give someone the opportunity to practice Deep Meditation if there is no bread on the table, they want and need bread.
As a country becomes more wealthy it also becomes more educated. With the combination of an easier life and education my feel is that the inherant spirituality, which I believe is in India will flourish and be renewed in a new and evolutionary way.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2006 : 6:56:38 PM
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Mysticyogi said:
As far as Yoga and spirituality is concerned I don't think western countries can give anything to India yet. Just my 2 cents.
I'd like you to pause for a moment and wonder how it would sit with you if you heard someone say that India cannot yet give anything to the western world in terms of literature, poetry, art, or science.
Just two more cents for you. 
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Hunter
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2006 : 9:57:59 PM
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Dave (riptiz),
I purchased and read that book, This House is On Fire by Shri Anandi Ma, when it was released in bookstores a year ago, I think, or perhaps a couple of years ago. I wince at using words to explain my feelings for the people in the book, nevertheless, the book was very powerful and inspiring. In the back of the book there is a model of a grand temple that started being constructed in 2003? Dave, is the temple done, have you seen it?
Dave and Sparkle,
I am intrigued by the places you have seen and the people you have met. Do you two feel that you have significantly benefited by meeting people from a variety of cultures in different countries?
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mysticyogi
17 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2006 : 11:22:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Mysticyogi said:
As far as Yoga and spirituality is concerned I don't think western countries can give anything to India yet. Just my 2 cents.
I'd like you to pause for a moment and wonder how it would sit with you if you heard someone say that India cannot yet give anything to the western world in terms of literature, poetry, art, or science.
Just two more cents for you.
That's correct. The way my previous statement is true, in the same way it is also true that western countries need not learn anything from India as far as material progress, enjoyment, science and technology is concerned. We should accept facts of both the sides.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2006 : 11:21:24 AM
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Well, something sounds very wrong to me with the statement that India can contribute nothing to 'the west' in terms of science (or indeed art, music, literature etc).
Something sounds wrong to me with the division, with the way it is framed. The truth is that Indian scientists have been contributing to Science for decades and will continue to do so. Likewise, I think some of the strongest yogis these days are western. So in this way, I think 'the West' is already contributing to Indian Yoga. This website of Yogani's is very much part of that. We have many Indian readers.
The problems with ideas like that is that they can be fuel for identity-narcissism (nationalism and its derivatives). So we have to be careful. Not that you mean it that way. But we do have to be careful. These words very easily spin into an interpretation that has negative results.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jun 19 2006 11:22:28 AM |
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mysticyogi
17 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2006 : 11:25:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Well, something sounds very wrong to me with the statement that India can contribute nothing to 'the west' in terms of science (or indeed art, music, literature etc).
Something sounds wrong to me with the division, with the way it is framed. The truth is that Indian scientists have been contributing to Science for decades and will continue to do so. Likewise, I think some of the strongest yogis these days are western. So in this way, I think 'the West' is already contributing to Indian Yoga. This website of Yogani's is very much part of that. We have many Indian readers.
The problems with ideas like that is that they can be fuel for identity-narcissism (nationalism and its derivatives). So we have to be careful. Not that you mean it that way. But we do have to be careful. These words very easily spin into an interpretation that has negative results.
Hey david_obsidian,
I agree with you. My intention was not to offend or blame any specific country. If you (or anybody else) found it harsh or rude then I am sorry about it.
Actually in your original post you quoted somebody with comments on India. Your post gave me impression that you want to convey that India has lost its Yogic and Spiritual heritage and trying to reinvent it back from western countries. This is of course not true. That's why just to highlight strenghts and improvement zones of east and west I posted my replies. Sorry if I misinterpreted your original post.
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Edited by - mysticyogi on Jun 19 2006 11:45:43 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2006 : 09:50:20 AM
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Well, I was quoting Jim, and in his turn, he was responding to someone else so it may have seemed harsher out of context. Jim was at the time responding to someone who might have seemed to be saying the old story that India is spiritual and the West materialistic. So if it seemed offensive, my cutting-and-pasting may have been part of the problem, sorry.
What we agree on is the only real point of the post:
But there's lots of everything in each of these large, diverse countries.
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OneMoreChakra
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2008 : 12:41:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hunter
Dave (riptiz),
I purchased and read that book, This House is On Fire by Shri Anandi Ma, when it was released in bookstores a year ago, I think, or perhaps a couple of years ago. I wince at using words to explain my feelings for the people in the book, nevertheless, the book was very powerful and inspiring. In the back of the book there is a model of a grand temple that started being constructed in 2003? Dave, is the temple done, have you seen it?
The temple is complete, the murti of Shri Dhyanyogi was installed December 25, 2006. I was there (with a lot of other people). There are wonderful photos at Cary Steiner's website:http://www.carysteiner.com/images |
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mahabaratara
United Kingdom
92 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2008 : 2:54:07 PM
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quote:
science and technology is concerned...
Obviously the Vimana's have gone straight over your head...
Unnoticed...
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Edited by - mahabaratara on Aug 25 2008 4:27:36 PM |
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Suryakant
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2008 : 10:24:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mahabaratara
quote:
science and technology is concerned...
Obviously the Vimana's have gone straight over your head...
Unnoticed...
Well ...
... one could say that there are Vimanas ...
... and then there are ...
... Vimanas ...
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Suryakant
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2008 : 10:26:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by OneMoreChakra
quote:
Originally posted by Hunter
Dave (riptiz),
I purchased and read that book, This House is On Fire by Shri Anandi Ma, when it was released in bookstores a year ago, I think, or perhaps a couple of years ago. I wince at using words to explain my feelings for the people in the book, nevertheless, the book was very powerful and inspiring. In the back of the book there is a model of a grand temple that started being constructed in 2003? Dave, is the temple done, have you seen it?
The temple is complete, the murti of Shri Dhyanyogi was installed December 25, 2006. I was there (with a lot of other people). There are wonderful photos at Cary Steiner's website:http://www.carysteiner.com/images
I was there in spirit. Jai Shri Dhyanyogi Madhusudandasji!
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