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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 26 2012 : 11:10:18 PM
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I met a couple who both claemed to know they were one with all, but in many ways I saw them as dangerous. the woman I was talking to her about angels and she said they dont exist. she was also talking to me about how closed minded her daughter was and how she did not likke toalkking to her daughter buecause she was a religios fanatic, of a different religion. I believee self realization may not be full enlightenment. to mean enlightenment would be realizing God, and having the ability to help others. this lady, by telling me angles did not exist, could actually disturb someones faith or path. Dont get me wrong, she had some very good qualitites, but if she does not like to communicate to her own daughter then she has something lacking, if she finds it difficult to communicate with her daughter and is disturbed by her daughters path, then this lady has something yet to learn. is she realized, maybe, would I call her enlightned, no and the reason being her lacking of ability to communicate compasionately. she asked me how I knew jesus really existed, that the bible may just be a made up story.
the husband. I met him in a town full of a lot of sin, money hungry people, a lot of adultery in words and actions, etc.... I told him if he wanted to help the people, why not read the bible and go to church in the place he lives, I told him I believe the teachings of Jesus may be non dual I also told him, why bring a new religion, non duality, to a town full of christians. Why not just reread the bible, and use the bible to assist the people because the bible is what they are used to and if he being realized could use the teachings of christ, he could help the greater good. I did not ask him to become a christioan, i just believed he could be much more powerful and helpful. assist the greater Good.
i felt as if I were open to wahat they were saying. but at the same time felt they could be very dangerous and uncareful with their toungs. in my opinion, they may have very well realized the self, God, but because of their speach I would not call them enlightned. |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2012 : 12:43:08 AM
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| I guess to sum it up, self realization and enlightenment are two different things, self realization means realizing the self and God,but it does not mean one is fully inteligent. enlightenment means to be able to teach as jesus did, with a great depth of understanding that can help the whole, teachings that if one is open, cant be argued. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2012 : 08:16:17 AM
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Hi Brother Neil,
This is obviously a hugely debated topic, but I would agree. Realization of the Self, is only the beginning.
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2012 : 10:04:48 AM
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I agree here, I think Self-realization might be described as when you shift deeply out of identification with form, coming to know yourself as spirit/awareness/bliss consciousness/presence [insert whatever term makes sense for you].
It's the end of stress and most suffering, and all the sense of being separate. But like Jeff said, it's just the beginning.
Life goes on, and like Yogani said, nobody is exempted from the process of evolution. The stuff that continues to happen after initial self-realization - progressive freedom from old conditioning and habits, continually improving your way of engaging with the world in an increasingly skillful and compassionate manner, shedding limiting beliefs, deepening and expanding your spiritual insight... There's an unlimited journey.
There are also progressive depths of self-realization. Simply standing as the witness of your thoughts, and realizing there doesn't have to be identification with them - this is already an awakening. I think shis is why they say in Zen, "Zazen IS enlightenment" (sitting in meditation IS enlightenment). It gets experientially deeper and deeper, as the witness becomes established, and you experience yourself as the unchanging, non-local, formless witness to which your body, thoughts, personality, emotions, and the phenomenal world, arise and disappear. Identity is no longer rooted in form.
All the suffering associated with 'personal' concerns gradually dissipates, as does the experience of 'stress', as does the experience of 'being in conflict' with 'others' or the flow of life itself, yet we become more intimately engaged with life with greater openness to, and concern for, the suffering of others.
In my experience, life doesn't stop calling you to engage with it, and you just have to get involved and inevitably make mistakes and learn from them. |
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neva2244
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2012 : 09:13:38 AM
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| It is a process, so happy I found this forum. |
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2012 : 10:25:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
I guess to sum it up, self realization and enlightenment are two different things, self realization means realizing the self and God,but it does not mean one is fully inteligent. enlightenment means to be able to teach as jesus did, with a great depth of understanding that can help the whole, teachings that if one is open, cant be argued.
Yes, this is a topic that can be endlessly debated. However, as stated by others, it is limiting to think of "full enlightenment" as that implies that one is done with the process. Can we really be "done"? Also, it is not necessarily true that enlightenment is equal to having the ability to teach. Plenty of examples of highly realized masters that didn't care to teach and were content to just be.
It is also not always possible to look at someone and know if they are self-realized/enlightened since this whole process is entirely subjective. Plenty of examples of this too, where so-called enlightened masters have turned out to be not so enlightened, but were very gifted and charismatic spiritual teachers.
Love,
kami |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2012 : 11:49:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by kami
quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
I guess to sum it up, self realization and enlightenment are two different things, self realization means realizing the self and God,but it does not mean one is fully inteligent. enlightenment means to be able to teach as jesus did, with a great depth of understanding that can help the whole, teachings that if one is open, cant be argued.
It is also not always possible to look at someone and know if they are self-realized/enlightened s
Love,
kami
you are only looking into yourself. Whatever you see there will be your Karma.
Best if you can stay in your own business and leave others to theirs |
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2012 : 1:30:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
Best if you can stay in your own business and leave others to theirs
Originally, I had written this and decided not to include in the post above:
"As Byron Katie points out wisely, there is my business, not-my business and God's business. I'm always reminded by this to stay within mine."
On another note, I thought, "Wonder what Karl would say", five minutes before you posted this yesterday.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2012 : 2:55:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kami
quote:
Originally posted by karl
Best if you can stay in your own business and leave others to theirs
Originally, I had written this and decided not to include in the post above:
"As Byron Katie points out wisely, there is my business, not-my business and God's business. I'm always reminded by this to stay within mine."
On another note, I thought, "Wonder what Karl would say", five minutes before you posted this yesterday.
[:D and ]of course you already knew.
The force is strong with you. |
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self realization, full enlightenment?
