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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 24 2012 : 10:07:46 AM
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This is exactly what I'm talking about Mr Anderson. In my experience, everything we think we know, when investigated right to the core, appears to be propped up by one or another belief. Often these beliefs are uninvestigated by both the individual as well as the collective group, and it is my (and perhaps others') theory that it is simply these uninvestigated collective beliefs that are holding this "objective reality" together. AND, I further suppose that, as the collective begins to become more and more awake/self aware, and as we begin to investigate into all of these previously uninvestigated beliefs, that the objective reality that (almost always) goes unchallenged, will begin to unravel and things (previously thought) impossible are going to quickly become not only possible, but commonplace. Just a theory, no way to prove it, but that's the direction things feel like they are going in.
Love!
Carson 
P.S. Kami, I think you are pretty darn cute just the way you are too.  |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2012 : 11:33:17 AM
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Interesting theory! I can speak to it from my own experience.
Prior to March this year, I had a compulsive habit/addiction to getting totally hammered (alcohol and other stuff) about once a week. This was despite fervent commitment to spiritual practices and a lot of growth and awakening going on in the background.
I tried everything to throw off the compulsive habit. I went to AA meetings. I read everything about the neuroscience of addiction to find insights that might help me. I went to an NLP/hynotherapist. I fervently prayed for help... etc ad infinitum
There was a whole belief system at work here: I am separate self, who lives in an objective reality and has a nervous system and synapses that are wired for addiction, I have an addiction, I can do stuff to overcome this addiction.
After a month of self-inquiry I had the first of a series of big awakening experiences in which all those beliefs were seen to be false. I saw clearly:
-There's no evidence whatsoever of there being a past or future, therefore how can I have bad habits?
-There's no separate self, just a unified texture of experiencing arising to the true I, awareness, therefore there is no "me" who can "have a problem" such as addiction
-Since there's no separate self there's no doer that I need to identify with, who needs to struggle with the problem and take responsibility for it and continually feel shame at his failure
-There's no evidence whatsoever of there being an objective reality which exists independently of sense perceptions, therefore there is no evidence that this 'nervous system' is actually, objectively real
Instantly, effortlessly, the habit stopped. It has not reappeared for the past 8 months, in fact I can drink with total self control, I can have up to two glasses of wine, and at that point, I no longer desire to continue drinking as I don't wish to dull my senses. I've never again felt craving or unbalanced ecstatic states in which I tended to act with reckless abandon.
In fact, it was like a huge chunk of the vasanas connected to the entire egoic consciousness instantly evaporated: pleasure-seeking, vanity, pride, unkindness, egotism, self-image. Whilst I don't claim at all to be entirely free of these things, something very big changed which changed the entire expression of the 'Josh character'. Actually makes me feel a little teary-eyed with gratitude, I could sometimes be such a selfish a**hole but I really didn't want to be! 
I conclude that addiction is just a symptom of ego-consciousness, whilst identified as a separate self, there's an inherent emptiness that arises, and it becomes the primary motivation to fill this emptiness with money, pleasure, alcohol, drugs, sex, food or some other kind of distraction.
The only reality my addiction ever had was the reality I gave to it by believing that "I" existed in an objective sense (as a separate self in an objective world, proceeding through linear time).
love,
josh |
Edited by - mr_anderson on Oct 24 2012 11:39:47 AM |
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Medea
Netherlands
115 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2012 : 1:55:31 PM
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| Thanks Josh for sharing your self-Ãnquiry experiences. Very inspiring. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2012 : 8:34:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Ah, gotcha. I guess that's where we disagree. I think one of the main symptoms of psychosis/schizophrenia is a staunch mental disbelief in a certain element of reality. If you try to deny some aspect of reality via your internal belief, that effort of negation can dig you into a deep hole--and I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. Your mind will try to negate the reality by creating hallucinations in an effort to satisfy your desire to NOT believe. Non-relational self-inqury.
Beliefs may set the scope of possiblities, but they aren't the determining factors in whether said possibilities will manifest or de-manifest (according to your formula: if you don't believe, it doesn't exist). Action, and stillness in action, is the determining factor, in my opinion.
Much love to you. 
I agree Bodhi, from personal experience. When I was into Castaneda's writings, I changed my beliefs, and departed from the norm. I began to see real proof that there are other realities, and what most people believe is not necessarily true.
But it began to drive me crazy. I started to not be accepted by "normal" people, and they started disagreeing with me about "normal" things that I hadn't tampered with.
It led me to believe that our purpose here is to communicate with other people, and everything may be illusory, but it is agreed upon for the purpose of communication.
And when you change reality, you change the ability to communicate because you are dropping the unwritten agreement between people. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2012 : 8:45:40 PM
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Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Forgive me but I must respond to Mr. Anderson's announcement of self-control over alcohol based on self-inquiry. I'll just check back with you in three years, and we'll see how that no-ego scaffolding manages to temper your drinking. Sorry, I've spent enough time in the AA rooms to recognize many patterns that sustain addiction, one of which is the belief that you've transcended ego-consciousness. Matter of fact, if you can drink with "total self-control"...who is doing the self-controlling, if not your ego? Is stillness/God/the BIG SELF saying (silently through intuition--but nevertheless with a deep, fatherly voice): "Alright, Josh my dear boy, you've had enough of those two glasses, so it's time to stop." Maybe. Who knows. If that is the case, I say, Bravo! You've been granted the divine grace of moderately imbibing in an anesthetic liquid that acts as a central nervous system depressant.
But my experience and many others' experience shows that this evolutionary path of life is progressive. If you have the tendency to seek higher levels of consciousness (more ecstasy/deeper stillness) through any means available, you'll have to choose which mechanisms to accomplish that. But there is no stopping, no final plateau, no state of no-ego consciousness while the body/mind is still a factor. That's the grand illusion--the illusion of attainment...far more dangerous than the illusion of physical reality. And that illusion is fostered by a belief. Yet life keeps on rollin' along, and the absolute, cosmic law of karma allows us to be participants in the show, and ain't it beautiful? I mean, it is miraculous. I only have to look three feet to my right as I sit here at my work desk and behold the beautiful, kind face of my co-worker to affirm the truth of that reality--that life is a continual, unfolding miracle--regardless of whether I believe it to be or not. Thank God. It takes the pressure off my poor little soul to uphold anything with my beliefs.
And then just wanted to say to Kami...I love ASLAN. He's like my power animal. If I were brave enough to get a tattoo, I'd get him on my chest. 
[P.S. If the response to Mr. Anderson is too abrasive, I will happily remove it, and I apologize in advance. I'm not trying to scoff at, or discredit, any progress Mr. Anderson has made in the realm of self-control/discipline. Honestly. I just feel it's important to share my perspective re: alcohol consumption. Then again, that's just my selfish ego. ] |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2012 : 9:03:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
It led me to believe that our purpose here is to communicate with other people, and everything may be illusory, but it is agreed upon for the purpose of communication.
And when you change reality, you change the ability to communicate because you are dropping the unwritten agreement between people.
I think that is so, so, so TRUE...Etherfish. Thank you. Communication bridges individual minds in serving the divine function of the universal, cosmic mind. I think that's why we love posting in the forum (despite any disagreements)--because it's a wonderful form of communication. |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2012 : 10:27:39 PM
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Hi Bodhi,
There's nothing abrasive there, we are all grown ups, and I appreciate you pitching in your opinion . I'm always receptive to criticism and so forth, so don't hesitate to stick an oar if it feels right you I would say however that to be fair, I don't for one moment believe that I've transcended ego consciousness, and I don't think if you read my post you'll find that I actually said that!
But if I wasn't clear enough, then that's my fault, and for purpose of explanation: I have no belief that I 'transcended ego consciousness' what happened was a major shift in perception, after which there was a big decrease in identification with form. "Dissolving the bonds of identification with form" is an key part of yoga-
"The mechanics of sound practices will lift us out of identified awareness, regardless of what our attitude may be about them." - Yogani
"And, yes, inner silence cultivated in deep meditation will dissolve all of the identification and dislocations over time. Along the way, we gain an edge in any sort of interaction or life experience, an ability to allow whatever is happening to relax in our stillness." - Yogani
And what I refer to in my post is just a huge shift, in which there was a great 'lift out of identified' awareness as Yogani puts it.
Not a total, final point after which there's no development and I claim to have transcended ego consciousness, but a big and sudden lift out of identified awareness, that has kind of left life without a heavy personal context. In stead, its more like a series of perceptions floating through stillness.
Undoubtedly, I've got a long way to go. No way you're ever gonna find me claiming that I've transcended anything - why? Because there isn't anyone to transcend anything in the first place! There's no you who transcends, the sense of the you dissolves. It's a realization that awareness itself is already transcendent, and then a relaxed freedom in stillness that runs through all experiences.
The journey totally and absolutely goes on, but it's been a really wonderful experience so I shared it out of the joy I've been feeling, and the effect it's had on Vasanas (by which I mean habitual behaviours and impressions).
Much love to you,
Josh |
Edited by - mr_anderson on Oct 24 2012 10:41:07 PM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2012 : 10:59:16 PM
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| Superb response, Mr. Anderson. |
Edited by - Bodhi Tree on Oct 24 2012 11:02:04 PM |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2012 : 11:46:27 PM
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I like what a guy on a retreat I went to in Raleigh NC said, it was the self-inquiry retreat group who are connected with the TAT foundation, Richard Rose's old organization.
He said "what is all this crap about getting rid of the ego? If you got rid of your ego, you wouldn't know whether to put the food you were eating in your own mouth, or in someone else's!"
It's totally true. As long as there's a body walking around with your name on it, there's going to be some sort of ego consciousness, and that's how it should be.
But Yogani put it better when he said "identified awareness", and certainly spiritual practice just increasingly dissolves identified awareness, sometimes in big leaps, more often subtly like water eroding a cliff face gradually over the years. And identified awareness is a part of ego consciousness - but it's the part that causes unneccessary psychological suffering, anger, defensiveness, worry, feeling separate, and so on.
Nothing wrong with putting food in our own mouths
love,
josh |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2012 : 12:12:30 AM
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Fun thread.
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Is believing or Samyama more powerful?
