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robfrommi
USA
34 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 08 2012 : 07:15:20 AM
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| I am new to AYP and have been doing deep meditation for about a month and a half. I also been doing 5 min of pranayama. I had an experience yesterday with my lower self and realized I have a dual mind.(I thought I did before but seeing it in action is a great teacher) So I want to start on self inquiry Lesson 324 but I also want to self pace. I noticed Yogani said to do it as it naturally comes out through meditation and I feel like it has but I don't want to overload and equally as strong I don't want to be double minded. |
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Oct 08 2012 : 07:35:24 AM
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Hi robfrommi
Have you been meditating before you have started AYP? If not, I would say slow down! Carry on with what you are doing and see what changes occur - like getting into the witnessing stage: http://www.aypsite.org/327.html
From there self inquiry arises naturally and you will be doing it correctly.
For effective self-inquiry you need some inner silence. This is gained through DM. Also you need to be able to let go of your inquiry into inner silence - this can be learned through Samyama.
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robfrommi
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - Oct 08 2012 : 08:09:14 AM
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I have been Meditating on and off for 7-8 years mostly off. I had an spiritual awakening about 8 years ago after I got sober (recovering alcoholic) I did my 12 steps and recovery program. I also for maybe a year was doing Parmahansa Yogananda program (self realization) but did not finish and abrubly quit doing Meditation practice after I had a experience ( I think ) with kundalini rising and throwing my back out. I Literally was getting up from my morning meditation session and turned and hurt my back I was on my bed for a few days unable to really move. In between then and now I did not do any practice but about 7 months ago (The birth of my 3rd son) I had an other awakening and till I started daily AYP I was studying James Allen (as a man thinkith) and doing some meditation in the morning but it was hit or miss.
Thanks for the reply, I will slow down. |
Edited by - robfrommi on Oct 08 2012 08:18:22 AM |
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Oct 08 2012 : 08:47:24 AM
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Well it seems that you have a good base of meditation practice in the past.
If you have experienced the shift to witnessing then I would say you are ready for self inquiry. If not, then I would carry on with what you are doing now. It's just that if you haven't got enough inner silence and take up inquiry you will end up having a frustrating time.
All the best! |
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illkeepmysol
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 12:15:06 AM
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| I'm not saying listen to me..but I'm not telling you to slow down either. Self inquiry is simple. Just be still and listen and observe.. if you can't do that without being emotional? good. most people can't. it's a phase we all have to go through. Do you really want to prolong it by doing meditation techniques that are created by the mind to silence it. Question the silence you have gained through techniques. The silence is not stillness. Stillness comes spontaneously with none of your input. The silence gained from techniques is a silence carved out by the mind. now how could something that comes from the mind free the mind? it can't. how do you gain such a stillness? don't force such a thing. just observe. in that awareness you are not adding or taking away by trying to make silenc. just pure conciousness.. eventually.lol |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 09:41:47 AM
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Hi illkeepmysol:
Your conclusions about meditation are incorrect. If inner silence were "carved out by the mind," it would not be increasing as presence of the witness in deep sleep (which it does), or as a stable presence of silent witness during and after chaotic or tragic events in life (which it does -- a very practical benefit). Not to mention the role of abiding inner silence (witness) in self-inquiry, providing the necessary traction for loosening the habitual self-identification of awareness with the objects of perception, leading to realization, an end to suffering, and permanent freedom.
These are just a few of the telltale signs of increasing awareness/stillness/witness in daily life. There are many more, which have been verified through direct experience by the many who practice meditation daily.
If you have a better way to accomplish this, and have direct experience verifying that what you are doing is effective, then by all means go for it. But it is best not to be drawing conclusions about the causes and effects related to techniques you do not have experience with, especially in a community of practitioners where the combined experience with such techniques runs into centuries. Maybe better to keep an open mind. 
All the best!
The guru is in you.
PS: You might find this lesson interesting on "the art of doing nothing": http://www.aypsite.org/84.html
Later on, there are quite a few lessons on the relationship of witness and self-inquiry, beginning around here.
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 10:30:56 AM
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Ahhh...I love when the peaceful warrior steps onto stage. Yes!
If anything, the technique of easily favoring the mantra will keep you honest about the presence of stillness/silence in your Being...much more so than the "no-technique" method. With the no-technique method, that's where we often "carve" out a corner in our imaginative mind, so we can hide from those deep, dark desires and past karmas. But when you favor the mantra, it all comes bubbling up to the surface! No more hiding! Boy, can I testify to that after doing Deep Meditation everyday for over 2 years now.
The consistency and persistence of using Deep Meditation has proved to me that in-dwelling serenity is beyond a whimsical notion of "just observe". How far down the rabbit hole do you want to fall?--that's the question.  |
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illkeepmysol
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2013 : 7:45:39 PM
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| I don't mean to say that techniques that quiet the mind are completely futile, but they are a path that leads the one path. the one path Which is acknowldeging that anything you do yourself.. as the mind is useless. you can't free yourself. Only letting go of yourself, by being still, observant and detached, will out of spontaneity the spiritual energy rise. You can do nothing to achieve pure consciousness.. because I as the mind can't free itself. Only by stepping aside and letting the energy do what it needs to do to my mind/body can I achieve true freedom. |
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illkeepmysol
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2013 : 8:03:50 PM
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| I read your first link and it is not making sense to me. How is doing nothing.. doing something? How is it that you have to do something to do nothing. I am speaking more of an act of surrender and letting go. When you do these techniques you do it from a place of desire, to gain something. If you just let go, then you will see that out of spontaneity, glimmpses of happiness and understanding come out. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2013 : 9:19:52 PM
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Letting go into the flow is an act of active surrender. If I just "let go" without a routine of daily practice and structure, I'm likely to wind up with a bottle of pills and scotch whiskey in my hand--"spontaneously" glimpsing the "happiness" of a dull, artificially-induced haze.
Even the desire to let go is a desire for something--a desire not to gain, but to lose. So desire is unavoidable. It seems that people who are overly comfortable in their current life position can claim that desire is absent from their psyche/gut/heart. I guess, coming from a personal history of self-prescribed suffering, I am full of desire to walk a path that ends that suffering--and more importantly, helps others end that suffering. Desire wasn't the cause of the suffering; it was the attachment to changing conditions that caused the suffering. So why not plot a course to become acquainted with That which does not change? At least, that's the logic I'm following.
Desire is the ingredient that propels life in some direction. Otherwise, it's just a meaningless, chaotic, delusional scramble of randomness--which, of course, life is not. Order, harmony, collaboration, symbiosis, rhythm, symmetry, and many other divine qualities are abundant and obvious everywhere, and all these essenses are fed by a deep desire from a mysterious but inwardly approachable source. We are tiny reflections of that source, and our small desires also correlate and jive with the Oneness of life's trajectory. If our desires don't jive, the conflict becomes apparent soon enough, since the natural state of being is happiness, but that happiness comes with a weight of responsibility, stewardship, co-creation, maintenance and other involvements that have to be cultivated.  |
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illkeepmysol
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2013 : 10:54:41 PM
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| are you saying surrender doesnt exist? cuz I thought that's what majority of religions was about. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2013 : 12:03:05 AM
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I'm saying there's an art to surrender. There's a participation, a practice, a wholehearted engagement with life.
It just doesn't occur with the snap of the fingers or a mental maneuver (tried that already ). Surrender is a mind/body/spirit exercise.
If you want to surf on a wave, you have to feel the wave. You have to balance and use your faculties to merge with the flow of a massive force you cannot control. You cannot control the water, but you can attune your senses, your mind, and your awareness to co-exist with its swell.
Similarly, in abiding in stillness, and letting stillness move you, there is an active participation that is required for the ride to be fruitful.
Of course, we can lay on the beach and just soak up the sun, but the inner adventurer will one day want to explore uncharted territory, since that is another quality of life and consciousness: to expand. To expand, we have to wander into unfamiliar lands and adapt to the environment. So, by practicing Deep Meditation, we are diving deeper into the infinite reaches of consciousness and discovering the source of these layers--unwinding the barriers that have blocked us from access to these realms.
We've still got a long way to go. At least, I do. |
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illkeepmysol
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2013 : 01:02:57 AM
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| It doesn't appear to be an expansion of ego. Yes I see what your saying that there's an active participation, but I think all of you are trying to be in control of your spiritual experiences to gain something. It seems like a dropping and stepping aside for any real spiritual progress to happen. Pure consciousness is already existing, divine and perfect, why would we have to do anything to reach something already existing within ourselves? Isn't it the wandering into unfamilliar lands that got our egos in this state of ignorance in the first place? I'm sorry if I'm making no sense, but I was under the impression, the guru was within? the divine comforter, the sacred energy known as kundalini. Why would we teach ourselves anything. I thought the point of life was to surrender to god/truth absolute. How can we trust that these techniques, that yes probably were shown to sages during their sadhana with the energy, wont be misused by our will? Didn't misuing this knowledge lead to black magic? If not as bad as black magic, perhaps a state of mind driven on the desire to be spiritual, which is ignorance in the name of spirituality. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2013 : 10:05:32 AM
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There are techniques based on manipulation, projection of egotistical will, and other such dark arts, but AYP methods don't fall under that category. Samyama is a perfect example. The crux of the practice is releasing thoughts, intentions and desires into stillness: total surrender. As Yogani says, this procedure is "morally self-regulating", precisely because we are not trying to create specific outcomes. We are letting divinity take over.
Similarly, in deep meditation, when easily favoring the mantra, we surrender to whatever inner scenery we may encounter in our journey to stillness. Sometimes the scenery is far from pleasant, but we do not try to block out such "negative" chunks, but rather accept their presence with that pure awareness that is beyond ego. But to get beyond ego, you have to lovingly unwind and befriend the ego (not hate or annihilate it). Then the ego and the mind are vehicles for enlightenment, and there are no more absolute enemies (like Satan or the "ego"). |
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illkeepmysol
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2013 : 12:06:08 PM
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I have read about samyama before, samyama is when all yoga is combined to form one continuous state of being. Pretty close if not the exact same thing I am speaking of. I do not believe it is a willful technique of the ego but a stepping aside yourself (the ego) and letting go of oneself so divine energy will purify you. To will divinity to do something is like fooling oneself.
By practicing techniques of meditatioin, you are trying to create specific outcomes. Logic.
To befriend ego is to befriend yourself.. you are the ego.. everything you think you are.. that is ego..you. True humility happens when you stop trying to meditate, and realize anything you do is futile and uselesss and doing comes from a place of desire. We (ego)are fueled by desires. To be desireless is to let go of trying to stop desire, and to let go attaching to desire. So by trying to be spiritual by practicing a technique for meditation.. is illogical. Honestly do you not see where this is leading? We have to probe into the state of being and the state of doing, although abstract to the intelect, once aquainted with, being is the reality of nature.
Also isn't doing meditation techniques to reach oneness with god a desire to annihalate ego? Isn't this all much simpler if we just let go, and in spontaneity surrender will fall in to place. Perhaps the surrender is started from a place of desire,but it seems to be the only path that is driven by our egos to actually lead to true freedom. |
Edited by - illkeepmysol on Mar 25 2013 12:47:31 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2013 : 1:11:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by illkeepmysol
I have read about samyama before, samyama is when all yoga is combined to form one continuous state of being. Pretty close if not the exact same thing I am speaking of. I do not believe it is a willful technique of the ego but a stepping aside yourself (the ego) and letting go of oneself so divine energy will purify you. To will divinity to do something is like fooling oneself.
By practicing techniques of meditatioin, you are trying to create specific outcomes. Logic.
To befriend ego is to befriend yourself.. you are the ego.. everything you think you are.. that is ego..you. True humility happens when you stop trying to meditate, and realize anything you do is futile and uselesss and doing comes from a place of desire. We (ego)are fueled by desires. To be desireless is to let go of trying to stop desire, and to let go attaching to desire. So by trying to be spiritual by practicing a technique for meditation.. is illogical. Honestly do you not see where this is leading? We have to probe into the state of being and the state of doing, although abstract to the intelect, once aquainted with, being is the reality of nature.
Also isn't doing meditation techniques to reach oneness with god a desire to annihalate ego? Isn't this all much simpler if we just let go, and in spontaneity surrender will fall in to place. Perhaps the surrender is started from a place of desire,but it seems to be the only path that is driven by our egos to actually lead to true freedom.
Hi Illkeepmysol,
It sounds like you are really confused and you are not sure how many of you there are in there?
Are you your ego? Or is your ego something separate from you which has uncontrollable desires that lead to no good? Will your ego die if you ignore it for long enough? How many of you will there be in there then?
These are all symptoms of something called non-relational self inquiry practice. It means that you have got a bit ahead of yourself and are trying to understand non-duality teachings before you are ready. It is quite common and there is a solution although it will require a bit of a leap of faith on your part.
The best thing you can do at this stage is to forget all about ideas of the ego, the self, God, what the goal of meditation is and so on, and focus on developing a meditation practice that will help you to develop some balance and peace of mind.
One of the biggest dangers of Advaita Vedanta is that people can end up in a state where, not only are they unable to understand who they are, but they end up believing that the very practices that will help them out of their predicament are the very ones they should avoid at all cost. It is what I call the "advaita trap". I have seen people waste many years stuck in this trap.
I hope very much that it won't happen to you.
If you can, try to see that you are not making any sense at this stage, even if you mean well in what you say and try to establish a meditation practice that will help you find some peace, and bring you to a level where advaita teachings will be meaningful for you.
Christi |
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illkeepmysol
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2013 : 3:13:04 PM
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You're mind is ego.LOL.
statements based on truth always leads to contradiction, because your mind wants to take part in the transformation, which it cannot. it doesn't realize this, so it changes form to try to hang out. It's not evil, it's only it's nature. When it realizes it can take no part, it will let go.
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JosephUK
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2013 : 3:29:01 PM
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Hi Robfrommi,
aside from self inquiry (which you needn't worry about as it evolves quite naturally as do my of the practices here) you may have seen the forum on bhakti or devotion, which may be a useful practice to add if you feel steady.
As you are meditating you have noticed a duality i.e. a higher mind and a lower mind, this can be percieved and the analytical mind grabs hold of it and tries to remedy the percieved issue. which is perhaps why your looking for a inquiry based solution to the problem.
it maybe that youve already done a little self enquiry by accident/on purpose by seeing that their is a duality to your mind and now you have (i'm guessing) developed a preference because one is good and one is bad.
In order to stay stable and for steady progress you need to remain equally present with both aspects of the mind.
this is where devotion comes in. develop devotion for all that trash in the lower mind, just love it and love it and love it.
it will begin to melt.
this is what i call ascending to the foundation of your being. As you continue your daily practice you begin to ascend to a peaceful and blissful silence but you are also descending bravely into areas of the mind which maybe you hadn't noticed before (the warrior path).
generating love is easy you just say may i love you with every ounce of my being and gradually you'll develop that bhakti.
this will stabilise you and help with any negative self analysis until self-enquiry becomes natural like the flow of love to your lower self.
joe |
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illkeepmysol
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2013 : 3:45:10 PM
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| I completely agree with joe, When the heart is open, it's easier for the mind to be turned toward God - Ram Dass. |
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When to start self inquiry?
