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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 10 2012 : 9:04:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
rather: Desire+Vision+Action =
Desire (Bhakti) comes first! 
Excellent point. Just a quote from Lesson 12 to affirm that:
"If we cultivate our desire to become continuously focused on a particular goal, such as the achievement of divine union, we are cultivating a special kind of desire. It is called "devotion." Devotion is the continuous flow of desire toward an object or goal. We are all familiar with the concept of devotion. It is how we explain the success of great achievers: "Oh, she is so devoted to her work." Or of great mystics: "Oh, she is so devoted to God." It is no coincidence that devotion and greatness are found in the same place. The first invariably leads to the second. The second cannot happen without the first."
I guess if divine union means a complete nullification of personal will, then hurray!--you've arrived and completed the journey. But I don't see it that way. Yogani recently e-mailed me in response to a question of mine, and he said that the evolution of our path is a blend of BOTH personal and divine. But the way some people phrase it, it sounds like enlightenment means becoming a mindless robot that is being puppeted by divine will. I see it much more like being a co-participant who is constantly consulting the flow of divine will from stillness. There's still merit and worth in the uniqueness of personalities and their ability to change the world.
Some people don't want to change much. They just want a feeling of contentment, of acceptance of their condition in life. It's kind of like resignation, like quitting, like letting other people play the game and run the show. I've tried it, but it didn't work me. I had to surrender to stillness and found that stillness wanted me to move, to be creative and even more interactive with people in life. It's much more like a dance, a wonderful exchange and flow, a willingness to take risks and to dare to dream. Again, for others it seems to be more like becoming a puppet--a passive acceptance of what their current lot in life is. To me, acceptance is much more about jumping in the game and accepting the infinite potential which has been endowed in us as cosmic human beings.
With great power comes great responsibility. Your gift is your responsibility. Everyone can tap into their respective talent and make the earth plane more akin to heavenly realms. "On earth as it is heaven." But not much happens if you have narrow vision and just a vague desire to be content with your material struggle. If "acceptance" is that, then the humans who are driven by material control and domination will continue to rule the world. If you don't think that's real, just take a look around. Evil exists because good men do nothing.
The world is what we make it.  Accept that, and begin to know what it means to live. That is the challenge I pose to myself, and to others who embark on the spiritual path. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2012 : 05:13:01 AM
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Yes, it's the blend of personal and divine.
This is a difficult idea to get over. It cannot help but be personal because if it was impersonal we wouldn't be having the conversation 
If it was purely divine then there is no hope but complete surrender. There is no point in any action at all because we are pure puppets.
Bruce lee said to be like water. Water is passive and active. If its put into a tea pot then it becomes the pot, but water can also crash.
Cultivating this is about learning balance. It isn't easy 'am I being too passive or too active?' 'Where is my compass pointing? ' this is why stillness is necessary before trying to balance between the two points. This is stillness in action and action in stillness. We see action as self generated, personal and stillness as the divine and homogenous, beyond the self.
You were so right when you mentioned dancing. It is this gentle tension that needs encouraging. We need to have an awareness of stillness first. Once we have that, then we can start to learn to balance between the two until they fuse into unity. The self is seen in the divine and the divine in the self. Then we can make beautiful music, creation for no purpose except for itself .
I think it's a mistake to talk of devotion and success. Devotion is rather the giving without the taking. However, the beginnings and the fires of Bhakti cannot connect that way when stillness is absent. The only yardstick is the feeling of separate self and devotion to a goal. |
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lufa1212
India
45 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2012 : 05:41:26 AM
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quote:
___________________________________________________________________
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
I guess if divine union means a complete nullification of personal will, then hurray!--you've arrived and completed the journey. But I don't see it that way. Yogani recently e-mailed me in response to a question of mine, and he said that the evolution of our path is a blend of BOTH personal and divine. But the way some people phrase it, it sounds like enlightenment means becoming a mindless robot that is being puppeted by divine will. I see it much more like being a co-participant who is constantly consulting the flow of divine will from stillness. There's still merit and worth in the uniqueness of personalities and their ability to change the world.
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Very well said, dear Bodhi Tree....EVOLUTION OF OUR PATH IS A BLEND OF BOTH PERSONAL AND DIVINE...this is what is understood (?) here also. All of us are co-participants.... creation, co-creation, re-creation according to our own potentialities, capabilities and talents as you say should be and is our forte however many of us do not realize this. I also agree completely with your views on jumping into the game and participating actively.
But IMHO all said and done the outcome of the creation is not in our hands...it may work out the way we desired/wanted/imagined and it may not for I for one DO NOT know how it all works. Hence, my submission of acceptance of whatever gets created.
Acceptance for me is not a passive acceptance of whatever happens...sitting quietly at the banks while the river keeps flowing. It sure means jumping into the life game...visualizing, channelizing your energy, actively participating in life, using your potentialities AND then accepting whatever design that gets formed...our fun probably is in the process of creating it all instead of the final creation which IMO is not under my control
lufa
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2012 : 09:22:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lufa1212
Acceptance for me is not a passive acceptance of whatever happens...sitting quietly at the banks while the river keeps flowing. It sure means jumping into the life game...visualizing, channelizing your energy, actively participating in life, using your potentialities AND then accepting whatever design that gets formed...our fun probably is in the process of creating it all instead of the final creation which IMO is not under my control
Beautifully said Lufa!
What I'm finding is that there is no fixed formula. "The" formula is dynamic and constantly evolving. My current one seems to be:
Bhakti + silence + inquiry = surrender
And surrendering is by no means a passive resignation and sitting back in oblivion. As Yogani says time and again, it is an active process. And the fundamental principle of karma yoga is active surrender.
As karl said a few posts ago, it is constant polishing/clearing of the glass. What we are has always been "That", awareness/is-ness. It is only the muck on the glass that has prevented us from seeing it. That muck is the separate self, with all its beliefs, likes/dislikes, etc. And clearing that glass is what we are doing with all this, where perception becomes clearer and clearer. The goal and fruition of yoga.
And then, it is not so much as giving up action, but intuitively knowing *how* to act and what is the most appropriate action at any given moment - that is, to not be in perpetual war with divine will. Karma yoga is this attitude of acting for the best interest of the whole in any given moment, without the coloring of preferences, beliefs, etc. Bhakti is the cornerstone of this attitude IMHO. When actions are performed as a service to the ishta, the outcomes of those actions become more and more irrelevant. All is good, all is acceptable, even if the specific outcome was not the purpose of the action (Gita, Chapters 3 and 4).
Samyama, for me, is *the* practice that gets to the root of this issue. In samyama, we let go of all our intents/desires in silence, without dictating the terms of how those are manifested. And each and every single time, the manifestation of any intent is beyond what I have ever expected. It is in the practice of samyama that I have come to understand what active surrender really is. Somewhere along the way, this has become a constant and effortless thing done automatically - sahaja samyama
After much beating my head about free will versus predetermination, I'm finally at rest, seeing that neither stance is true.
Love,
kami |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2012 : 09:49:17 AM
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Karl, thank you for that Bruce Lee quote. That has been one of my favorites ever since I heard it years ago. That man was a poet through his expression of martial arts movement. Great minds think alike.
Lufa, thank you for the affirmation. We can never predict the future...we can just try to manifest the core samyama sutras through stillness in action, creative expression, and service to humanity and the earth (and beyond, according to Yogani!)
Kami, I tell you, ever since I've incorporated samyama into my daily practice (and often throughout the day and night at the office, home, and everywhere in between), life has gotten progressively better, especially in how I respond to stressful situations. So glad samyama is working for you too.
Onward! |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2012 : 10:42:58 AM
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| I think it's Sanyama that does it. The Sutra's are antithetical varying between material and spiritual. They are personal and impersonal at the same time. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2012 : 11:13:18 AM
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It's "samyama", Karl.  See, you're already getting me prepared for the big book project! |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2012 : 11:38:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
It's "samyama", Karl. See, you're already getting me prepared for the big book project!
Just testing |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2012 : 6:25:15 PM
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The thing with samyama (or sanyama for Karl ) is that it starts off as a clunky practice with the core sutras.. Then we start experimenting with adding other sutras.. And without even realizing it, all thoughts and actions turn into sutras.. Constant releasing of everything into silence.. At least how it has evolved here.. Most times, I can't fathom how and why things turn out the way they do, until I trace it back to a random intent released in silence.. Seems like "Ask and ye shall receive" has become my way of life.. Or maybe I am wanting whatever is happening or is given
Very thankful for many things in AYP, first and foremost for Yogani.. But I'm coming to suspect that samyama is the "secret" to all of yoga.. Open secret
Love,
kami |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2012 : 8:07:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kami
Most times, I can't fathom how and why things turn out the way they do, until I trace it back to a random intent released in silence.. Seems like "Ask and ye shall receive" has become my way of life.. Or maybe I am wanting whatever is happening or is given.
Very profound and very cool.
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2012 : 9:59:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
quote:
Originally posted by kami
Most times, I can't fathom how and why things turn out the way they do, until I trace it back to a random intent released in silence.. Seems like "Ask and ye shall receive" has become my way of life.. Or maybe I am wanting whatever is happening or is given.
Very profound and very cool.
Thanks Jeff
But it isn't all that profound really.. We always get what we ask for.. It's just that we may not be in touch with what our deepest desires are.. Once we start to see what we really want, we simultaneously see that all that we have in our lives is totally congruent with our desires, and it has always been so.. No accidents IMO..
Love to you.
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lufa1212
India
45 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2012 : 05:54:02 AM
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kami,
Thanks. I have always enjoyed your posts :)
quote:
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Originally posted by kami
But it isn't all that profound really.. We always get what we ask for.. It's just that we may not be in touch with what our deepest desires are.. Once we start to see what we really want, we simultaneously see that all that we have in our lives is totally congruent with our desires, and it has always been so.. No accidents IMO..
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Now, this is food for thought, kami...have read this many times in the forum and elsewhere...time to enquire into this :)
love
lufa
Moderator note: Two of your posts have been edited for "wide page" bug, due to continuous lines that were too long, spreading the width of the entire topic beyond screen width on some devices. Please keep it in mind for future posts. Thanks!
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2012 : 1:19:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lufa1212
kami,
Thanks. I have always enjoyed your posts :)
quote:
_________________________________________________________________
Originally posted by kami
But it isn't all that profound really.. We always get what we ask for.. It's just that we may not be in touch with what our deepest desires are.. Once we start to see what we really want, we simultaneously see that all that we have in our lives is totally congruent with our desires, and it has always been so.. No accidents IMO..
________________________________________________________________
Now, this is food for thought, kami...have read this many times in the forum and elsewhere...time to enquire into this :)
love
lufa
Thank you for the kind words Lufa _/\_
The above is something I'm coming to see for myself only recently. It had never made sense before, because of course, we don't always get what we want on the surface of it..
But I'm beginning to see that all the "things" I've wanted (success, love, etc) did not constitute my "deepest desire". When I worked with this recently, going deep within, it was a bit unsettling to see that the deepest (mother) desire was "clarity", arising from equally deep discontentment. When I think back on my life, there had always been a deep conviction that "all is not what it seems to be, and I need to know what is".. I remember when I was about 10 years old, playing with my best friend at the time, and asked him if he realized that we were always thinking. He thought for a minute and said oh yes. Then I asked him - "if I know that I'm thinking, is there two of me - one that thinks and the other that knows I am thinking?" I can't remember what he said, because at that moment, all thoughts stopped and for a brief moment, there was perfect clarity. After that, I would experiment "stopping my thoughts", which worked sometimes, and didn't at others. The last time I recall having that moment of perfect clarity was in college during a lecture.. But.. that first time it happened is probably when the discontentment began, don't know.. I carried that around for the next two + decades, trying everything except drugs (including serious consideration of a monastic life, much to my poor parents' chagrin) to find that clarity. It was not to be found in success, finding love, happy marriage, etc.. It is what led me here to AYP.. It was finally in the shift to is-ness that the discontentment finally resolved.
In retrospect, wanting that clarity dictated everything that came in my life (and continues to come now). Even in the roughest times, I really got what I craved deep down. Even when I didn't understand why untoward things were happening and life took on mysterious (and sometimes tragic) turns, and even when I was distraught, it was all unfolding to grant me my wish, the wish I could not even see or articulate.
At least in my life, there have been no accidents
Love,
kami |
Edited by - kami on Oct 12 2012 1:34:07 PM |
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lufa1212
India
45 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2012 : 02:51:35 AM
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Kami,
Thank you very much for such a beautiful descriptive post. Time constraint does not permit me to write further. Shall get back at the earliest.
Love
lufa |
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Beliefs, interest, and bliss
